When people realize that that they are involved with a sociopath, the standard advice from Lovefraud is that they should, as quickly as possible, cut the predator out of their lives. That means no phone calls, no e-mails, no texts, and certainly no in-person meetings. It means No Contact.
Of course, there are times when this is difficult, as when our reader works with the sociopath, or they have children together. In these cases, they need to implement No Contact as best they can. But let’s now talk about situations where it is possible to get rid of the person, such as in a dating relationship.
What is the best way to establish No Contact? Clearly, firmly and permanently.
The rules of No Contact
The book called The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker, devotes several pages to the topic of rejecting an unwanted suitor, and these pages are among the most helpful of the entire book.
De Becker writes in the context of a woman who decides she doesn’t want to be involved with a man. Do not, the author says, try to “let him down easy.” Here’s what he writes:
One rule applies to all types of unwanted pursuit: Do not negotiate. Once a woman has made the decision that she doesn’t want a relationship with a particular man, it needs to be said one time, explicitly. Almost any contact after that rejection will be seen as negotiation ”¦ If you tell someone ten times that you don’t want to talk to him, you are talking to him—nine times more than you wanted to.
Here are more points that de Becker makes in the book:
- If you get 30 messages from a pursuer, and finally call him back to say, “stop calling,” he learns that after 30 attempts, he will get a response.
- If you make an excuse like, “I don’t want to be in a relationship right now,” the stalker assumes you will want to be in a relationship later, and keeps calling.
- If you say, “You’re a great guy, but I’m not the one for you,” the stalker thinks you’re just confused, and will come around in time.
- Never explain why you don’t want a relationship. If you give a reason, it gives him something to challenge.
- A nice or delicate rejection is often taken as affection.
“The way to stop contact is to stop contact,” de Becker says. “I suggest one explicit rejection and after that absolutely no contact. If you call the pursuer back, or agree to meet, or send him a note, or have somebody warn him off, you buy another six weeks of his unwanted pursuit.”
Giving in
What happens if you’re wishy-washy about No Contact? Not long ago, Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who we’ll call “Lenore.”
I literally had to count the days that went by as I refused contact with him, and on day 120, I celebrated because I felt healed. Well, on day 121, he emailed me, and against my better judgment, I emailed him back. He told me he had been in therapy, he realized what he had done wrong, he was on medication.
I was cautious and wary, and decided, amidst warnings of concern from my friends and family, to perhaps work on a friendship again. We worked on being friends for a few weeks, and everything was great and fine. I felt in control of the situation.
Then his old behaviors started creeping in. He installed a GPS app on my phone so he could track my whereabouts. He began calling and texting incessantly, and flipping out if I didn’t answer right away. The verbal and psychological abuse had begun again. Fortunately, this time it did not escalate to physical abuse. He began lying again, gaslighting and acting erratically, and began seeing other women on the side. Last night, it once again became too much and I told him not to contact me again because my heart and my spirit couldn’t take any more pain, and his inconsistency is so bad for my son.
So today begins Day One again without him. I am writing you today to tell you that your no contact advice was the best advice I didn’t take. For 120 days I went without him. It took a while, but by day 90 I was happy and free and at peace. Now I am back to square one.
No Contact is the path to healing from an entanglement with a sociopath. The stronger you can be about No Contact, the faster you will recover.
DearBP,
Well, I gained 10 pounds a year in the six years since my husband was killed in the plane crash. “Just a pound, no bit deal. Oh, just ANOTHER pound, no big deal” and so on for 60 pounds!
Well, eventually I had to admit to myself IT IS A BIG DEAL!!! So, it was effecting my health, blood sugar was a bit high, and feet starting to swell, Blood pressure up.
I had spent years instructing OTHERS ON HOW TO CARE FOR THEIR DIABETES, so now it was time to take my OWN ADVICE.
Isn’t it always easier to give advice to others than to take it yourself? LOL
So for 2 weeks I did 1200 cal per day, then 1500 and increased exercise a bit each day…lost 10 pounds in about a month, and then for last few weeks have stayed there, but will hold calories steady and increase exercise. Walking is great and you can do it in your house if weather is bad outside even if it is just pacing around one room or walking up and down a hallway.
Instead of eating 1 meal at supper time and then snacking til bedtime, I eat spaced out meals, weight or portion control (measure) food. I keep fruits and veggies for snacking but still CALORIES DO COUNT, so keep that in mind, but you can of course eat MORE of a low calorie snack or meal than of a high fat or high sugar one.
I went to store today and got lots of sugar free Jello. 10 cal a serving, and GUM to chew on.
Actually I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER already, and just losing that 10 pounds makes me feel so much better.
As far as the BELLY FAT, there is research that shows that STRESS makes mice put on fat around their bellies even if the amount of food intake and exercise is kept constant. I have NEVER had a fat middle, and NOW IT IS ALL IN MY MIDDLE. I feel and look like I am 8 months pregnant! I’ve been under continual high stress for 6+ years though, so what can you expect!?
I got a complete medical check up including lung function tests (because I smoked-=-quit that too!) and heart and artery and I am believe it or not in GREAT health with the lungs and heart of a non smoker much younger than me! Good genetics mostly, but the thing is, if I don’t take care of myself, if I continued to gain weight and exercise less, I would have gotten sicker and sicker….I don’t want that, so now is time ot WORK on me. I’m getting the proper check ups, fixing my diet and exercise regimine and doing what is GOOD FOR ME!!!!
It won’t happen all over night, because if you eat too little, your body goes into “fasting metabolism” and conserves fat and eats its own muscle, which makes it harder to lose weight in the future. So at LEAST 1200 CAL per day minimum. Fasting (water and liquids only) is okay for 48 hours but more than that can be harmful to your body. I spent my professional life telling others how to take care of their health, so now it is time for me to LISTEN TO MYSELF and TAKE CARE OF MYSELF.
As far as wanting another relationship, if it comes fine, if not fine. Right now, I am having a better relationship WITH MYSELF.
Hope I can inspire you to join me on this journey of taking care of ME! (YOU) It isn’t anything except “good sense” to take good care of ourselves. I white about being hungry! But actually the first week or so was the worst, now is just OVERCOMING HABITS THAT ARE BAD—sort of Like Semi-NC with EXCESS FOOD! LOL (can’t go total NC with food like you can cigarettes or a psychopath! LOL)
PS Lose the 1 stone of weight before it becomes 2 stone!
Delta,
I am a practicing intuitive. I know Soapy is a spath and I know exactly what he/she/it is doing.
I also know exactly what I am doing. But thanks for the warning!
Blessings,
Adamsrib
p.s.
we must be careful of Divide and Conquer.
Dear Adamsrib,
We had a problem with the psychopaths coming here and getting a “fight started” for some time. Donna asked that we NOT RESPOND to them, and that if they were disrespectful or problematic we hit the “report abuse” button which she installed at that time, that she wrote the article asking us NOT TO RESPOND TO THEM.
Most of us do the “potted plant” or gardening routine if we spot someone we think is here to cause trouble, and it has kept down the hurt feelings that have happened in the past due to mostly new posters who are still raw and “take the bait” that is thrown out by the disordered and disorderly posters. Most of the time I will report the comments as a heads up to Donna. Donna handles these intermittent posters very well I think and she does not allow disrespectful or divisive comments on the blog. That is one reason there is almost no “flaming” on this blog. I came here from a “survivors” group that was run by psychopaths and their dupes who flamed posters at their most vulnerable. I truly appreciate Donna’s handling of this blog as a “flame free zone.” I was RAW when I came here and another poster named Aloha and I were both flamed by a poster and were both very very hurt. Of course the poster (a disordered person) blamed US for hurting her! Of course now, I am in a better space and would just hit the “report” button and move on unhurt. At that time though, I was so wounded and raw it cut me to the bone to think I might have hurt someone else. Can we say I was a “people pleaser,” delux version?
Occasionally we have someone come here who posts for some time before they show their true colors as an abuser posing as a victim rather than a true victim but they usually out themselves and leave.
As you may already well know, many times psychopaths present themselves as victims–when in fact, they are the abuser, but they use the “pity ploy” to get our empathy for them.
Poor baby! They are soooo abused, that’s why they act so badly, they need our help and understanding. (are you ready to puke yet? LOL)
I really think Delta was right in her analysis of the sociopath. I noticed many times two things about my sociopath. First, he had a very difficult time making decisions. He said he analyzed things “thoroughly” and would literally sort through the pros and cons of things for hours. This is because he had no emotion to lean on to help him decide. It’s a frontal lobe problem, no emotion, so just analyze to death.
The second thing is that he would talk about facts and figures and news and ideas, but never his emotion. He never said “I felt sad” or anything like that. It *FELT* to me that he must be supressing alot of emotion, but when I asked about it, he said no, he said he wasn’t thinking about anything….that there was NOTHING going on inside.
Holy shit.
I told him I thought he suffered from sociopathy, more than once, and he didn’t respond. If somebody said that to you, wouldn’t you be horrified? I just can’t imagine how anybody can ignore a comment like that, unless they knew it was true?
Am I right?
I am really trying and failing to go no contact. I can’t understand why I hurt so much. I do think about killing myself, although it isn’t as bad as it used to be (non stop crying). It still hurts, I still am off in fantasy land dreaming he’ll be different, waiting for him to call. I know it will NEVER be different but my emotions don’t agree.
This blog helps but it’s not enough. I end up in a panic of sorts several times a day where I really feel like I need to talk to somebody about this and I have nobody to go to that gets it. My therapist I see once a week, but it doesn’t help with the daily panics.
I don’t know what to do about it. I don’t know why I yearn for him, why I hope. He seemed so great, and he dropped me like a cold fish. After two years of lies and manipulation.
I don’t know how to start feeling good about myself.
I don’t know how to start positive self-talk, how do I change my thinking to be more positive? What story do I tell myself.
Thank you all so much. I know I’m asking alot. I’m hurting like everybody else, apparently.
Ellen
Oxy,
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I am aware of what has been going on. I read a lot and I pick up a lot. My radar is very keen. I seem like an innocent but only in certain cases.
I don’t take any of it personally. Perhaps due to my years as a social worker, I have learned to see things objectively.
If these “bloggers” can succeed in turning us against each other then they win. I think it takes more discipline for us to quietly (and nicely) ignore those LFers who do feel compelled to respond for what ever reason, than for us to exercise NC with the culprit. Of course if they (the trolls AND any of us) are being offensive then it would be necessary to forward to Donna. We are adults here.
I believe fully in the principle of “killing them with kindness”. Eventually they get bored and they go away. Grey rock works also! 🙂
Ox, you are a good soul. I see that you try your very hardest to always say things with respect. It shows. THANKS!!
BTW, the book you were telling me about “Crones Don’t Whine: Concentrated Wisdom For Juicy Women” by Jean Shinoda Bolen. I am going to call our local Women Studies Library at the University to see if they have it. I hope so. I really want to read it.
(((hugs)))
Adamsrib
Dear AdamsRib,
Yep, that’s the book, and I bought a copy of it for every female friend of mine, young and old! It is such a cool book! She has other books too, but that is my favorite!
I’m a book-a-holioc and I order a lot of used books off Amazon and B&N I’ve got several coming in this week—I also hit estate auctions where you can usually get boxes of books for $3 a huge box, plus the box is one of those $10 rubber tubbie storage thingies, so it is a double bonus. I read mostly non-fiction, but also a bit of light fiction (“chewing-gum for the eyes”) to relax.
I do try to be respectful to posters here, and fortunately most posters here don’t take my bluntness as disrespect. Communication via text with virtual strangers (which you don’t know what stage of grief they are in etc) can be problematic at times because sometimes they are pretty raw. I’ve been there and I am sure you have been too.
I’m pretty well past the stage where someone can “hurt my feelings” on this blog, but I know that others are not all past that “stage.”
There is so much to learn not only about the psychopaths but about ourselves. Sometimes I sit and look at the mountain of things I WANT TO learn, want to practice so I can add them to my life-skills that it seems that if I were to live a thousand years I would have only scratched the surface. When I stop and look BACK though at how far I have come since I started this journey, I realize that I have come a long way toward healing the wounds.
From the book “Crones Don’t Whine” she says in chapter 6 “Crones are fierce about what matters to them” —
“women tend to be more conservative when young, and become rebellious and radical as they grow older, while it’s the opposite for men. Women become fiercely compassionate crones when they are outraged at the suffering caused as much by indifference by those in authority as by the perpetrators. Compassion and anger come together for terrorized, abused, helpless, and neglected people, whose plight is considered of little importance because they have no power or value in a world where greed and power over others rather than concern for others is the ruling principle.”
I want to be Jean Bolen when I grow up!
Hi Oxy,
Please don’t confuse my sense of dependency on LF, as a criticism to others who remain here long after they are traumatized and very far down the recovery road. I agree with all the points you’ve made and as I mentioned, I am astonished at what a wonderful group this is. Never seen better. Truly.
I just feel FOR ME that as long as I’m here I’m still “in it”. I realize self discovery is a life long journey. I just want the whole “thinking about” this entire situation to be a distant memory. YES I learned a TON and it will have contributed to who I am and my continued journey into my deeper understanding of myself. But I know FOR ME that as this becomes less painful, I will spend less time here. If I’m on this site for hours a day, FOR ME, it means stuff is REALLY bad.
So Day 4 and I can’t BELIEVE how he’s “finding reasons” to contact me. For anyone out there who is having trouble with the “no contact” rule (LORD knows I did), I can attest to the fact that there is a REALLY BIG reason why EVERYONE on this site is EMPHATIC about it. I’m really amazed at how being resolved to do this has set me on a different path.
So thanks to all who continue to encourage the No Contact rule and for those who are brave enough to write about what a struggle it is to achieve. It helps those of us who “know better”, but can’t seem to commit to it, that others are struggling too and everyone just keeps trying. Quite the team spirit here and it’s REALLY helpful. So thanks to all. Especially you, Oxy. I have said t before, but I’ll say it differently. You are a fine example of how if everyone thought like me…As in: The better I am, the less I’ll be on LF”……we all wouldn’t have someone like you, who contributes SUCH value to us all.
It’s not that I won’t check in from time to time (I’m speaking theoretically right now, as I have NO idea how frickin’ long it will be before I am able to not be on this site so much), but for ME, I just equate not needing to be here, with having conquered this somewhat.
Peace Sisters
Dear Soul,
Nah, I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you were critical of us old timers, but I do disagree with your idea to some extent that being here is some kind of indication that you are not as healed.
It IS the usual thing that as people heal they “move on” away from LF, at least most people do sooner or later, and who knows, there may come a time I do that as well. Right now, it is helping me to reinforce my own CHANGES to be here. I guess the same way someone goes to AA meetings regularly 20 years after they have had their last drink. My being here is not totally altruistic, though that is part of it, but my being here is for ME.
I agree that NC is THE way, and believe me when someone first suggested that I go NC with my egg donor–there was no way I could even consider it. LOL Looking back NOW at that feeling that I had THEN, I can almost laugh. It was SOOO HARD to make that decision to QUIT CONTACT, but now, I realize it is like quitting smoking!
I “tried to quit” smoking dozens of times, but really if I am TRUTHFUL with myself, I NEVER REALLY WANTED TO QUIT, I just thought I “should” want to quit, and each time I “quit” I KNEW IT WOULD NOT LAST FOREVER.
But, this last time I really DID QUIT I knew 1) I NEEDED TO QUIT and 2) I actually WANTED TO QUIT this time. It has been much much easier to actually quit than it was to “try to quit.”
Same thing with my egg donor, and same thing with my P-offspring…NOW I CAN’T IMAGINE WANTING to have contact with them or enjoying it at all, and I can’t even IMAGINE enjoying a cigarette either. I am done with the toxins, they are out of my system.
I can Be an EXAMPLE because I have done about everything wrong, and I’m willing to admit it. Not everyone learns from example, and I sure was not one to learn by the example of others, I had to stick my finger into the fire to learn—and sometimes I had to stick my whole HAND AND ARM into the fire to learn.
Back in the days when we IRONED everything from our bras to our sheets, my toddlers were always reaching for the iron. I was scared that they would seriously burn themselves so I cranked the iron down to the lowest possible setting and actually watched while, sure enough, they reached for it…OUCH! No real damage done but from then on when I said “Hot, don’t touch” they would believe me. From then on if I didn’t want them to touch something I would say “Hot” even if it wasn’t and they would NOT touch it. Prior to that all the “Hot, don’t touch” warnings in the world didn’t mean much to them because they didn’t truly know what “hot” was.
I got this idea from a friend whose first child was seriously burned as a toddler and from then on with their subsequent kids they did something similar for their later toddlers and never had another kid get burned.
Sometimes here not only I but others say “No Contact” to a new poster and sure enough they will reach out and TOUCH the “hot iron” and get burned a bit, but from then on, usually they see that our warnings had some worth. So I don’t see it as a failure when a person does go back for another contact, but as a learning experience that will be remembered and understood. Hopefully, that learning experience will simply be a small “red spot” and not a “third degree burn.”
God alone knows how many “second” chances I gave every psychopath I’ve ever had contact with…how many times I stuck my hand in the fire and didn’t understand why I kept getting burned. Finally someone said to me, “Hey, go NC with your egg donor, she doesn’t have your best interests at heart and you can’t change her.” I didn’t want to believe that. I didn’t believe that. How could I believe that my “mother” didn’t love me? (actually now that I look back I can see that I knew that even as a child) I didn’t WANT to believe it. I still don’t, but it is the truth and “the truth will set you free, but first it will pith you off.”
So better to be pithed off than pithed on! It’s the truth. I accept the truth, and I am getting on with my life. If I can do it, “you” (that’s the universal you) can do it too. I got burned but I survived and so will you. If that gives some confidence to someone else who is not wanting to believe that the person(s) they love doesn’t love them, isn’t able to love them, and that the only salvation possible for themselves is NO CONTACT. Then that gives purpose to my “burns.” Just as Donna took her “burns” and gave purpose to it, the purpose to help others heal. I’m just glad she didn’t feel the need to “move on” from LF before I got here.
Dear Ox,
Seems like we are kindred spirits. Now that you have given me a sampling of the book, I can’t wait to read it!! I have put myself on a strict budget since I am only working part time now. Seems this is the story for a lot of the world now with the economy issue.
I WILL find it though. Our university has a very extensive library and I would be shocked if they don’t have it. If not, I will do an inter library loan. I am DETERMINED!! 🙂
Bolen says (from your post):
“women tend to be more conservative when young, and become rebellious and radical as they grow older, while it’s the opposite for men. ”
IMHO, this is why many, many “crones and hags” were burned at the stake as witches not only during the inquisition but during the Puritan witch trials of Salem MA.
Because A) they practiced herbal medicine and were considered wise women and B) as they aged they became less afraid of the patriarchy and more vocal!
Bolen goes on:
“Women become fiercely compassionate crones when they are outraged at the suffering caused as much by indifference by those in authority as by the perpetrators. *Compassion and anger come together for terrorized, abused, helpless, and neglected people*, whose plight is considered of little importance because they have no power or value in a world where greed and power over others rather than concern for others is the ruling principle.” (emphasis mine)
I felt this outrage the other day when I felt one of our own was on a very slippery slope and I was desperate to go out on a limb if I had to. I realize even tho we deeply care about someone, we have to respect their wishes if they do not really want to be helped. That very frustrating thing known as self determination!
Oxy, I have news for you, in SO MANY ways, you are Jean Bolen. You are OUR Jean Bolen!!
thanks again..
Namaste,
Adamsrib