Just about every day, Lovefraud receives e-mail from readers who are looking for answers about confusing, contradictory and abusive behavior exhibited by people in their lives. The new readers don’t understand what they are dealing with; they just tell, either in a few paragraphs or lengthy compositions, their stories. The e-mails describe some or many of the following behaviors:
- Pathological lying
- Pity plays
- Shallow emotions
- Devalue and discard
- Cheating or promiscuity
- Addiction to drugs or alcohol
- Controlling demands
- Financial irresponsibility
- Manipulation of children
- Broken promises
- Claims of “you made me do it”
- Pleas of “I’ll never do it again”
The readers ask, “Am I involved with a sociopath?”
For those of us who now know what sociopathic behavior looks like, it is apparent that the answer is yes—or that at least the readers are describing sociopathic traits.
More than 1,300 people have contacted Lovefraud with their stories—and others have told their stories in comments posted on this blog. In all of them, the same behavior patterns are described over and over again. In fact, many of you have wondered (facetiously) if you were all involved with the same person.
Asking for advice
When newbies, who have been confused by lies and broken promises, learn that there is a personality disorder that describes what they’ve been dealing with, they have a few reactions. One is relief that they are not crazy—they really are experiencing irrational demands and covert manipulation.
Another is horror at the magnitude of the problems they face—especially upon learning that there really isn’t any treatment for a sociopath. With that, the new reader starts asking for advice, and this is where things get tricky.
Here are questions that I’ve been asked:
- He’s threatened to kill me—will he do it?
- How do I get the judge to see the truth?
- How can I get the authorities to arrest her?
- How can I protect my children?
- How can I get my money back?
- What should I do?
As much as I wish that any of us who are further along the road of understanding could answer these questions, the reality is, we can’t.
Each situation is unique
Although we often see the same patterns of behavior, each sociopath is unique. Each victim is unique. Each situation is unique. As victims try to extricate themselves from entanglements with sociopaths, any and all of these issues may be pivotal:
- How much clout does the sociopath have in the community?
- How well can the sociopath manipulate the legal system?
- How much money does the sociopath have to throw into the conflict?
- Who believes the sociopath?
- Who can the sociopath make into allies?
- Are there any witnesses? Will they speak up?
- How old are the children?
- What office politics are involved?
- Do legal authorities take the case seriously?
- Are there any ties that can’t be broken?
- How much money does the victim have (remaining)?
- How much strength does the victim have to continue the battle?
Sometimes I feel so helpless. I can offer some generalizations about what sociopaths tend to do—based on the 1,300 cases I’ve learned about—but I cannot predict what any particular sociopath will do, how authorities may react, or if anyone will see through the deceptions. All of this makes it very difficult to give advice.
Solitary journey
In reality, extricating ourselves, recovering from, and coming to terms with the sociopath(s) in our life is a solitary journey. Other people may make suggestions, but we must ultimately make the decisions on how to cope.
And sometimes the range of the choices we have the ability to make is very narrow. A judge may decide on joint custody of children, or even award custody to the sociopath. Law enforcement may decline to investigate or prosecute. If we win our case in civil court, we may never collect a judgment.
In situations like these, decisions are taken away from us.
When that happens, our only choices have to do with our own attitude. Are we going to let the sociopath sink us? Or are we going to somehow find a way to heal?
Real response is internal
There is great wisdom in the adage, “This, too, shall pass.”
It’s been 10 years since I left my sociopathic ex-husband. I’ve processed most of the emotional trauma associated with the experience, so it doesn’t have the grip on me that it once did. In fact, if it weren’t for the fact that I’m running Lovefraud, it would have no grip on me at all.
Ten years ago, I was on the phone with another woman scammed by my husband multiple times a day. Although we are still friends, now we only speak two or three times a year. She’s moved on in her life—the experience is a distant memory.
The same thing happens here at Lovefraud. In the midst of their trauma, readers post frequently. But eventually we stop seeing their names and comments. I hope that means they’ve left the experience behind.
In the end, the real response to the experience with the sociopath is internal. We have to come to terms with the betrayal, the injury, the exploitation. So although it’s hard to give foolproof advice for dealing with the circumstances that the predator creates in our lives, the truly important advice is this: Find a way to heal yourself.
Elizabeth- My Children are very young, 4 and 22 months. He is coming to my house tonight to pick up the kids for there 2 1/2 hour visit. I am going to take your advice on the whole ready and at the door plan. Yestrday he asked me for there SS#’s for the DUA, he is on unemloyment. I feel a little nervous about this but we have joint legal custody so he is entittled to it?
Lastly, I had an awful nightmare last night about him, has anyone else out there struggled with nightmares?
terrilee,
You asked “why?” I think you already know the answer, but here’s how things work with these guys.
The initial phase of the relationship, that I call the “incoming” phase, is when they scope you out, figure out what’s important to you, reflect it back to you so you’ll think you’re getting your heart’s desire, and get you to surrender to what they’re offering. In other words, fall in love with them.
Once they’ve got you well and truly hooked, you go to the manipulation phase. They start intermittantly giving you what you want (the wonderful guy you fell in love with) and withdrawing it. All of this is in order to get you to participate in whatever exploitative plan they have to make use of you and your resources.
You say you feel “chemistry” with him. That probably means one of two things. You are attracted to intense, energetic, high-testosterone men, which the majority of these guys are. Or two, he has been successful to some degree in showing you want you want.
You are in danger if you feel any attraction at all. That may sound extreme, but if he’s got a handhold — either by knowing what attracts you or knowing what can trigger your pity response — he can build on it. That is, learn more about you and figure out what more works.
If you’re wondering whether you’re right about this guy being a sociopath, you are. Everything you say about him sounds like a sociopath. And you’re impulse to get away from him is spot on.
You’ve had some advice about fading away, simply not being available. That’s good advice. But if you find him becoming more persistent, here are a few other ideas.
Tell him you’ve started dating a policeman. Or an attorney. And that they’re curious about his background. (Sociopaths don’t like exposure and they really don’t like encounters with the law.)
If he calls you, ask him to lend you some money. Don’t give him any more information than that, and make it a substantial sum. Make it a yes or no deal and that you need an answer right now over the phone. When he waffles, say “I don’t have time for this” and hang up on him. (Sociopaths don’t like other sociopaths. If he follows up that call, tell him he’s not useful to you and hang up.)
Tell him you’re getting engaged. It’s a surprise and a big secret. It’s someone you’ve known for a long time, and who you never imagined cared about you this way. That he’s a major power in your industry (or church or whatever you’re in that he doesn’t know much about), and that you’re busy doing pre-nups and redoing your wardrobe to fit with his lifestyle. And you’re sorry but you’re not going to have time for him in the future. (Again, sociopaths don’t like other sociopaths, and he’s not going to compete with another one over you. Especially if his “best” offer is to turn you into a prostitute and this guy is turning you into a trophy wife.)
Terrilee, you’re in a good position here, because he hasn’t gotten anything from you yet. He’s still in the incoming phase, trying to recruit you and still not having a clear idea of what he can exploit you for. That’s the best time to get rid of them. In fact, it’s the only time to get rid of them without damage.
You have to be cool to pull off these lies. And you have to remember that the only objective that matters is getting rid of him. Not being smarter than him or playing any kind of game with him other than getting rid of him. Not being a nice person. Nothing but getting rid of him, which boils down to convincing him that you’re not worth the trouble.
The only other thing you may want to do is deny the relationship ever happened. No I never said that. No I wasn’t there. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m afraid you’re deluded. No I don’t remember any of it. You can get away with it at this stage. And there is probably no better way of communicating with a sociopath that you’re not someone to mess with. Selective memory is one of their favorite strategies, and they recognize it when it’s used on them. He may call you crazy. But you can just brush it off.
If you have the slightest concern that he’s dangerous, consider using the “dating a policeman” defense. And if you have to, rent one to take you out to dinner a few times. If he knows where you live, do whatever you would naturally do to protect your home if the neighborhood suddenly became more dangerous.
And next time, when you get these impressions that a guy who’s chatting you up is not a nice person, finish it off faster. They cruise for people who’ll let them into their lives. The sooner you shut the door and act like you’re prepared to take care of yourself, the more likely they’ll move on.
Kathy
Kathy Oh my goodness … Im going to be late again today….and it was so worth it! Your post to Terrilee PRICELESS… ALL OF IT!!!
How to ward off a Sociopath – take a few simple measures to give him a dose of his own doings… POOF…. HE IS GONE.
Easy, simple 1,2,3… mirror THEM for a change…and watch them run faster than you can say GoodBye Sociopath! And an added bonus you have great conversation next time you are in the company of likeminded people who share how they set themselves free — without many tears — and lots of positive reinforcement that they protected themselves and made alot more room for healthier prospects to enter their lives.
Enjoyed your post!
Great post!!!
Thanks for the kudos, LTL. But I want to be clear about my intentions. This is not a game.
These are dangerous people who WILL do damage to us and our lives, if we let them in. The only reason to try to “game” them is to get them out of our lives and minimize the damage. Long-term, if we continue to interact with them, we will lose. Because they are not burdened by any of the sense of social responsibility we live with, because they are totally addicted to winning (whatever that means to them), and because that addiction makes them do crazy and foolish things that are likely to harm them, as well as us.
So there is no real way to control them over an extended period of time, though we may have an occasional “win.” What we can do, however, is convince them that it’s not worth the trouble to mess with us. That we’re not going to feed their addiction for “winning,” and we’re not going to be the source of anything else they may want.
And this last bit, about being the source, is especially important because they are socially incompetent, and it makes it difficult for them to survive on their own without parasiting off other people. If they’re parasiting off us, it means that what was ours becomes theirs, and we don’t get anything back for it. That’s the real and lasting nature of the damage that we’re trying to avoid.
So “being a sociopath to deal with a sociopath” is a palliative effort. It’s something we do when necessary. Those of us who get involved with sociopaths are probably not naturally inclined to do this. To stand in our own shoes, recognize a threat to our lives and resources, and to act quickly and decisively to remove ourselves from the threat, or to convince the threat to go find an easier target. But we learn, in a school of hard knocks.
When we’re first experimenting with standing up for ourselves and winning, it can be a really thrilling experience. When we discover that we can be Machiavellian and work through a complex challenge, it’s like getting a diploma in basic survival skills. We can do this. We can exert our will and make something turn out the way we want, despite a lot of obstacles and people who are trying to exert their will. Time to pop a bottle of champagne.
So we can do this. But it’s not who we are. It’s just something we can do. We’ve got new skills for defensive and aggressive maneuvers that incorporates judgment about what’s good for us and choices about what we want in our lives.
My point being is that we do not want play games with sociopaths. Or with anyone else. Addiction to winning is another form of avoiding ourselves. It’s why sharks are sharks. It’s a way to avoid facing the reality of loss in their lives and growing through it.
We get into win mode, when we have to. And hopefully we’re good enough at it that we win the important ones. We can negotiate contracts that are fair and reasonable. We can speak up for what we want when we are in a challenging situation. We can eliminate obstacle to our happiness, and walk away from no-win situations. Dealing with the hard stuff — and especially dealing with people who don’t under the benefits of good relationships — is part of life.
But it’s not where we want to be. We want to be surrounded by the good stuff. Relationships based on mutuality and good feelings. Work and family situations where we get back rewards for our investments. Personal interests that enrich us through learning and good experiences.
The rest of it, we finish and walk away.
Dear Kathy,
Thank you for pointing that out. I very much agree with you. This is not a game, especially if you are involved in a dangerous situation with someone. This becomes quite serious and your above advice is valuable information for survival and removal and should be taken very seriously.
Its not something you can do repeatedly, its something you have to be commited to and walk away immediately.
I was looking at it from where I am now in the healing journey. Going forward – and with the first “red flag offenders” from this point on, I can “get rid” of them by choosing any one of your options, or “creating” one of my own as I see fit for the particular situation as it relates to Sociopaths, and toxic people. More often than not I should be able to just fade away, no response, no followup. But if there are any persistent types I can mirror them in a way that sends them away on what they will perceive to be their own choice to go target a more vulnerable victim. Not this ASS!!!
I really want the space in my life to be filled with healthier prospects entering my life.
Thanks Kathy.
mirror THEM for a change”and watch them run faster than you can say GoodBye Sociopath!
Nice one!
Thanks for understanding.
I think part of my concern about this is based on remembering how much I used to enjoy playing with these people. I liked the competitive mind games. It’s actually what happened at my first meeting with my sociopathic ex. It was a job interview — him interviewing for a job in my firm — and we spent the whole lunch in some sort of game about who was more literate and who had the broadest vocabulary. It was fun, but it also was a breach of boundaries, his first attempt to get close to me in a way that had nothing to do with a relationship with an employer.
Whose fault was that? Mine, absolutely. I had boundaries like a fishing net. And I was excited that someone so “interesting” had shown up, someone who “shared my interests,” and flattered by the attention.
I know, I know. If I could go back, I’d smack myself and say, “Stop fooling around and do your job.” But I was lonely, overworked and desperate for a friend from my “old life” as a writer. So I opened the door and he walked right in.
I can remember other times when I was younger that I agreed to ridiculous things — like continuing to support and man and his two children, after they had virtually bankrupted me — because he was just so charming and made such a good speech about why I should do it a little longer. I did it because I thought the speech was excellent, not that he actually talked me into it. (And who was taking care of Kathy and her resources in this scenario, while I was giving trophies of my money for great speaking? Hmm, I have trouble finding the person in the room.)
I look at these memories and I think that I was over-impressed with my capabilities to play these games. I think I wanted to, because it made me feel like I had some control, however temporary, on what was happening to me. Because it was fun. But I didn’t have control, and the temporary pleasure of playing didn’t turn into anything but more usage.
So, it concerns me that we get might too enamored of the fun of playing the game with these people. We’re not really players, when it comes to life. And they are.
This is just a case of me projecting my worry about myself onto everyone else. I’m sure that you and everyone else have more sense than that. I’m the silly girl who used to think she could go head-to-head with people who don’t have ethics or scruples.
My ex sociopath cancelled his visit for tonight so I can rest easy for another whole week! The down side is I had wonderful plans with my best friend I had to cancel. If I could could how many times he has had “car problems”!!!!
Count
Kathy So by anychance are you 5 ft 9 and a redhead w/green eyes? Sounds like there are two of us in the room!!!! I NOW have MORE sense than that — but I sure did think I could go head-to-head with HIM! Especially in the beginning. Word for Word.. Match point for match point. We would make eachother laugh so hard!
But then it slowly changed into something much different. There was still laughter and “the game” when he wanted to play…but then after a year, an awkwardness about so many things in so many ways seeped into the relationship. Needing loans. Job to job to job. Controlling. Disappearing. Reappearing. Lots of lies. Some days he would be on cloud nine and then way way down low some days….Well you know the drill.
I really enjoy laughing and joking. But not at the expense of another and certainly not to cause harm. I thought I had found a real friend, someone I could go through life laughing and his business venture(s) were going to take off and he was going to “find himself” and get it all together… but all that kept happening was feeling more and more used and confused and the jokes would come and go depending more on more on what he needed. Eventually he was probably laughing at me more than anything. I had spiraled into a game of heres a bread crumb, now go get it! Whats the saying when you play with fire….you get burned.
I do not enjoy the memories, i do not ever want to play mind games with a Sociopath again. I like to play on words, and have fun joking and teasing and being myself. I never want to challenge a Sociopath to a game of keep up with me or lose yourself…
I want them gone. I learned too much chemistry is a red flag… I learned that if they are trying to get too close to me to soon by fun mind games – its a red flag… and most of all I learned to trust myself I dont ever want to let myself down in that regard. Its a red flag for me if Im having fun one upping someone or being mindfully competitive for more than a few sentences. Because I know all to well the outcome is its just a game or like playing with fire and I will get burned and lose my self respect, my money and my way again.