I’m glad to see this study done, but it is a very LIMITED STUDY done on a limited number of inmates guilty of a single crime, and the “control group” (murderers who “had not been diagnosed” as psychopaths where not diagnosed as “normal” people either so I’m not sure the “control group” were not 29 on the PCL-R instead of 30=a psychopath)
I would like to see this study done with murders who scored “near normal” on the PCL-R and the other end 30+ and with larger numbers of subjects.
As for folks going “um” and “ah” in their speech, I know lots of folks who do that that are just nervous speaking on tape or in front of a crowd who are definitely not psychopaths.
Some psychopathic murderers, my son Patrick for one, can EXPRESS REMORSE in the most tear-jerking manner possible, so if you didn’t know him, you’d think he was a totally reformed person who has all the remorse in the world, when in fact, he is PROUD of killing that young woman and says it is “worse than even the cops know.” But that admission or faux repentance are used for effect, depending on who he is talking to.
MiLo
13 years ago
I had read about this study before and was quite taken back when I read remarks by Michael Woodworth, University of British Columbia. He said the P’s stories of their crime often include what they ate the day of the crime.
P/daughter ALMOST ALWAYS relates memories/events to what food was served or what she ate. After attending a friends wedding, she did not describe the ceremony, the bridal dress, flowers, music, JUST great details about the food.
The study mentions P’s using twice as many words relating to physical needs, such as food, sex or money. Few words relating to social, family or spiritual needs.
I imagine many on here can relate to this speech pattern. Thought provoking.
skylar
13 years ago
I’ve tried to remember anything like that in the speech patterns of my ex spath but nothing comes to mind.
The only things I remember which he emphasized were other peoples’ facial expressions and emotional reactions because that’s what he found interesting.
When he was trying to pull one over on me, he would emphasize his OWN “emotional” reactions, to set the stage. (as if he had any)
Hosanna
13 years ago
My sociopath ex definitely was and is emotionally flat. Even though he had a high IQ, he would take a while to answer a direct question. I later attributed it to the fact that he was lying about just about everything and needed time to recall what was the “correct” response to this person, on this day, in this place, because if you ask him the same question next month…you will get a completely different answer. He often used words like betwixt, raison d’etre, oft and he often used double contractions like “shouldn’t’ve”, “wouldn’t’ve” or”that’ll’ve.” Also he would use the European ways of spelling words like “colour” and “flavour” and “favourite” even though he was born and raised in America. Not that there was anything wrong with his speech patterns, but I did notice that his speech patterns were different than most. He also used very strong language all the time, not just profanity, but lots of hyperbole. He is very well read and loves poetry and he is very skilled at using language to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression. I remember telling him on more than one occasion that his communication style was 90% hyperbole, again…just an observation.
I think that they are on to something here. I know that I have new filters and lenses to discern what I am truly hearing or reading since my experience with a psychopath. The psychopath that I knew is very good at making up big elaborate stories used to manipulate people.
The psychopath that I know has studied psychology in depth and he has told me stories of how he enjoyed messing with the shrinks that tried to evaluate him in prison. He knew what they were looking for and why. I witnessed him doing the same in our marriage counseling, making himself out to be the loving husband, but the therapists all saw through his lies and manipulation over time. Both sets of therapists recommended that he needed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist and probably put on some kind of medication, he refused evaluation. Oh the money I wasted on counseling!!! : ( Counseling is a complete waste of time and money when it comes to a sociopath. All people are objects to them, non-human, people are nothing more than pawns in some sick twisted game that they are playing!
The more time away from him I have, the more I feel my personal joy returning. I wish I never met him and I am so glad he is out of my life!! NO CONTACT is a beautiful thing!!!
Louise
13 years ago
Hosanna:
Extremely interesting that your X spath would use the European way of spelling words if he was born and raised in America. Why would he do that?? I have to admit that I like it, too, but if I used it, everyone would think I am nuts!
bluejay
13 years ago
Hosanna,
Like you, I feel my personal joy coming back. Things are not perfect here, but they’re better without the spath’s presence. About three weeks ago, I remember driving along and thinking, “I feel like I’m coming to life.” That morning, I also experienced a sense of joy too. I told my brother-in-law (the spath’s brother) what I had experienced that morning and he told me that he was happy for me, that I deserve to have happiness, joy, etc. All of the stress that these people bring into our lives sucks so much of everything good out of us (you get worn out) – it’s nice to get the good feelings, emotions, etc. back.
bluejay
13 years ago
What I noticed about the spath is that his grammar could be fine most of the time, but he could say things incorrectly (eg. “he don’t (doesn’t) like that, etc.) at times. He had a fake laugh. It took me years to realize that he mimicked his mother in his speech pattern, also getting the fake laugh from her.
Hosanna
13 years ago
@louise
To me the European ways of spelling seem more classic and/or elegant?? Who knows why he does or says the things he does. The only thing that I know about him is it is all a big lie that he is using to work some con. One thing I am learning is not to waste much time trying to figure out why he did this or that because, I don’t want to waste any more energy on him. I am however interested in the common characteristics of sociopaths so I can avoid them in the future!
@bluejay
I am so glad that you are also feeling your joy return!! Yes, I am aware of feeling a little more alive each day. It is a long process healing from a relationship from a sociopath! They are like vampires that suck the life out of us! I was in survival mode for a long time just trying to deal with the constant chaos. It really does get better! I am glad to read that your brother-in-law seems to be a supportive and caring person. I found it interesting because my ex’s brother is a supportive and caring person also. I never met my ex’s brother in person but we are Facebook friends, when I told him that his brother had been cruel and abusive and that I was filling for annulment and a restraining order he said that he wished he had been able to talk to me before we were married and he said his brother has “never been stable”, he thought he was bi-polar and needed medication, and that he thought his brother’s new-found “religion” was a con and that it was in my best interest to get away from him. It is a huge blessing to have relationships with people that really get it!
Louise
13 years ago
Hosanna:
Oh, most definitely the European way is more elegant and that’s why I like it a lot, but people would still think I was crazy if I used it! 🙂 Maybe I should try it to see what kind of reaction I would get…oh, God…I’m turning into a spath!
Hosanna
13 years ago
@louise
LOL!!
I am very thankful that although living with a spath has a profound effect and affect on us…it is not contagious!!! : )
I’m glad to see this study done, but it is a very LIMITED STUDY done on a limited number of inmates guilty of a single crime, and the “control group” (murderers who “had not been diagnosed” as psychopaths where not diagnosed as “normal” people either so I’m not sure the “control group” were not 29 on the PCL-R instead of 30=a psychopath)
I would like to see this study done with murders who scored “near normal” on the PCL-R and the other end 30+ and with larger numbers of subjects.
As for folks going “um” and “ah” in their speech, I know lots of folks who do that that are just nervous speaking on tape or in front of a crowd who are definitely not psychopaths.
Some psychopathic murderers, my son Patrick for one, can EXPRESS REMORSE in the most tear-jerking manner possible, so if you didn’t know him, you’d think he was a totally reformed person who has all the remorse in the world, when in fact, he is PROUD of killing that young woman and says it is “worse than even the cops know.” But that admission or faux repentance are used for effect, depending on who he is talking to.
I had read about this study before and was quite taken back when I read remarks by Michael Woodworth, University of British Columbia. He said the P’s stories of their crime often include what they ate the day of the crime.
P/daughter ALMOST ALWAYS relates memories/events to what food was served or what she ate. After attending a friends wedding, she did not describe the ceremony, the bridal dress, flowers, music, JUST great details about the food.
The study mentions P’s using twice as many words relating to physical needs, such as food, sex or money. Few words relating to social, family or spiritual needs.
I imagine many on here can relate to this speech pattern. Thought provoking.
I’ve tried to remember anything like that in the speech patterns of my ex spath but nothing comes to mind.
The only things I remember which he emphasized were other peoples’ facial expressions and emotional reactions because that’s what he found interesting.
When he was trying to pull one over on me, he would emphasize his OWN “emotional” reactions, to set the stage. (as if he had any)
My sociopath ex definitely was and is emotionally flat. Even though he had a high IQ, he would take a while to answer a direct question. I later attributed it to the fact that he was lying about just about everything and needed time to recall what was the “correct” response to this person, on this day, in this place, because if you ask him the same question next month…you will get a completely different answer. He often used words like betwixt, raison d’etre, oft and he often used double contractions like “shouldn’t’ve”, “wouldn’t’ve” or”that’ll’ve.” Also he would use the European ways of spelling words like “colour” and “flavour” and “favourite” even though he was born and raised in America. Not that there was anything wrong with his speech patterns, but I did notice that his speech patterns were different than most. He also used very strong language all the time, not just profanity, but lots of hyperbole. He is very well read and loves poetry and he is very skilled at using language to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression. I remember telling him on more than one occasion that his communication style was 90% hyperbole, again…just an observation.
I think that they are on to something here. I know that I have new filters and lenses to discern what I am truly hearing or reading since my experience with a psychopath. The psychopath that I knew is very good at making up big elaborate stories used to manipulate people.
The psychopath that I know has studied psychology in depth and he has told me stories of how he enjoyed messing with the shrinks that tried to evaluate him in prison. He knew what they were looking for and why. I witnessed him doing the same in our marriage counseling, making himself out to be the loving husband, but the therapists all saw through his lies and manipulation over time. Both sets of therapists recommended that he needed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist and probably put on some kind of medication, he refused evaluation. Oh the money I wasted on counseling!!! : ( Counseling is a complete waste of time and money when it comes to a sociopath. All people are objects to them, non-human, people are nothing more than pawns in some sick twisted game that they are playing!
The more time away from him I have, the more I feel my personal joy returning. I wish I never met him and I am so glad he is out of my life!! NO CONTACT is a beautiful thing!!!
Hosanna:
Extremely interesting that your X spath would use the European way of spelling words if he was born and raised in America. Why would he do that?? I have to admit that I like it, too, but if I used it, everyone would think I am nuts!
Hosanna,
Like you, I feel my personal joy coming back. Things are not perfect here, but they’re better without the spath’s presence. About three weeks ago, I remember driving along and thinking, “I feel like I’m coming to life.” That morning, I also experienced a sense of joy too. I told my brother-in-law (the spath’s brother) what I had experienced that morning and he told me that he was happy for me, that I deserve to have happiness, joy, etc. All of the stress that these people bring into our lives sucks so much of everything good out of us (you get worn out) – it’s nice to get the good feelings, emotions, etc. back.
What I noticed about the spath is that his grammar could be fine most of the time, but he could say things incorrectly (eg. “he don’t (doesn’t) like that, etc.) at times. He had a fake laugh. It took me years to realize that he mimicked his mother in his speech pattern, also getting the fake laugh from her.
@louise
To me the European ways of spelling seem more classic and/or elegant?? Who knows why he does or says the things he does. The only thing that I know about him is it is all a big lie that he is using to work some con. One thing I am learning is not to waste much time trying to figure out why he did this or that because, I don’t want to waste any more energy on him. I am however interested in the common characteristics of sociopaths so I can avoid them in the future!
@bluejay
I am so glad that you are also feeling your joy return!! Yes, I am aware of feeling a little more alive each day. It is a long process healing from a relationship from a sociopath! They are like vampires that suck the life out of us! I was in survival mode for a long time just trying to deal with the constant chaos. It really does get better! I am glad to read that your brother-in-law seems to be a supportive and caring person. I found it interesting because my ex’s brother is a supportive and caring person also. I never met my ex’s brother in person but we are Facebook friends, when I told him that his brother had been cruel and abusive and that I was filling for annulment and a restraining order he said that he wished he had been able to talk to me before we were married and he said his brother has “never been stable”, he thought he was bi-polar and needed medication, and that he thought his brother’s new-found “religion” was a con and that it was in my best interest to get away from him. It is a huge blessing to have relationships with people that really get it!
Hosanna:
Oh, most definitely the European way is more elegant and that’s why I like it a lot, but people would still think I was crazy if I used it! 🙂 Maybe I should try it to see what kind of reaction I would get…oh, God…I’m turning into a spath!
@louise
LOL!!
I am very thankful that although living with a spath has a profound effect and affect on us…it is not contagious!!! : )