I address this post mainly to my female audience because, in my experience, the pathology I’ll be discussing, while not exclusively male, is more often than not expressed by men against women.
I revisit here what I regard as an important relationship red flag: When you meet a man who seems to be “Mr. Perfect,” someone “you can’t find anything wrong with,” you need to take a good long pause; otherwise, trouble bodes.
Now I’m not talking about, or maligning, the experience of “great chemistry.” Great chemistry, even electric chemistry, where you hit it off instantly, is a good thing and sometimes a good omen.
But there’s an important difference between “great chemistry” versus the sense of having met and experienced “perfection.” The genuine Mr. Right, in other words, is a very different creature than Mr. Perfect, who almost always will be a quack.
There are a number of reasons for this. First, men perceived by the women they meet as “too good to be true” are often men with an agenda to be perceived as too good to be true. These men are often calculating narcissists or sociopaths for whom the game, the challenge, the principal goal, is to disarm their female [target] objects with their apparent, and compelling, perfection.
To advance their agenda these men may exhibit inordinately seductive qualities right from jump—inordinate levels, for instance, of charm, politeness, thoughtfulness, soliticousness, sacrifice and attentiveness (in a word, responsiveness).
But this isn’t a case of their being on their “best behavior,” as new partners normally are with each other; rather, it’s a case of their being on their best “contrived” behavior, their intent being to effect an impression of perfection as if they are cut from a different cloth—specifically, the cloth of male romantic perfection.
These men may want you to regard them as Princes heaven-sent; they may want you to feel that it took something like your lottery-like good fortune to have found them.
Many of them will be seeking the approbation of your social circle; they may want those around you to ask as with shaking heads, “Where did you find him?” “What planet did he come from?” “Oh my God, he’s like”¦perfect!”
These men will often “groom” you not unlike how the sexual abuser grooms his victims—with promises of his special attentiveness, gratification and protectiveness. This exploitive strategy is extremely potent as it accesses deeply-held fantasies to be perfectly loved, protected and embraced.
Other LoveFraud columnists and astute posters have correctly noted that not all of these men are consciously operating as predators. While true, it’s also important not to minimize just how many of these men are, consciously, operating with predatory agendas.
In either case, these are not men who love, respect, or even like women. Rather, they use women for ego-gratifying and ego-masturbatory purposes. And just as the thrill of a masturbatury experience fades fast, so too does the thrill that women give such men fade with often startling, disorienting suddenness.
While this dynamic may or may not confuse the exploiter, it will surely confuse the unalert woman.
In their “grooming” process, these men will often pull out all the stops: they may, for instance, be the best, most attentive lovers you’ve ever had while all the while they’re not actually enjoying the sex because they’re not present; rather, they are watching themselves, and watching themselves with you, as if they’re porno aspirants determined to make a name for themselves, determined to stamp themselves (to legendize themselves, if you will) in your mind.
Many of these men are desperate to be the fantasy of their perfect selves–that is, the fantasy of themselves as special, unique, memorable. And so they tend parasitically (and compulsively) to seek cooperative, vulnerable hosts (such as you) as if to hold for them, store for them their slippery, empty gestures at immortality. (I intend to flesh this idea out in a separate post, recognizing the incompleteness of my explanation.)
We’ve discussed some of these concepts before, but another of them bears repeating: Narcissists, sociopaths and their like will chew you up for the temporary ego-gratifying nutrients you can supply them in the short-term; and then, like a piece of chewing gum from which they’ve extracted all the sugar, they’ll spit you out, devalue and discard you, now that you’ve lost your flavor (and thus use).
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW)
Has anyone been following the Jon and Kate saga……
I watched Kate on am Tv this am and I really don’t know what to believe…..
The waters are muddied….and if there is one ‘victim’ outside of the kids……whoever that may be is doing more harm than good right now.
Ofcourse we are not a fly on their walls…..and most of what we know is reported as ‘news’….
But with the latest heat up…..I am seeing some very familiar behaviors from both of them….and I just don’t know what to make of them.
I think by her coming on saying she can’t pay her bills…..now I don’t believe that for a second….one minute she portrayed herself as the financial person in the relatinship and the next she can’t pay her bills because of hte money he took…….I see her heightening the victim status…..and I don’t see it benefitting her one bit.
It would never have benefitted me…..
Truth was….I was a victim, kids aswell……but no one cared about that until the ‘fat lady’ (judge) sang!
I see similariities in my divorce….with the blame/money yada….
and I know I never speak until I can show mile s of documentation of my situations truth. Documents that can’t be forged or altered. Tax returns, bank statements…..his own testimony….
I see the gaslighting and projection….
and unless they are BOTH s’s……I see the harm that can be done to each party in the process.
Why are they divorcing in the media….why is she responding in the media…..
I would say to her….just keep doing what your doing and be the ‘rise above it’ in public one.
He doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut (either does she at this point) and with how out of control he seems with his travels/women coming out against him with tons of accusations……I would advise her to sit back and take notes….let him hang himself. He will.
I don’t think WE need to know any rebuttle to anything he accuses….just let him keep accusing!
Shawnee, I never read/heard that tidbit. Who knows if it’s true or not. Only Doris, since Elvis really did leave the building. (bad joke).
The psycho who took her for all the money she made throughout her career was her husband. Doris was left penniless. She was the first person I heard that went through this … in a H-wood tabloid. Now it happens to Joe and Jane Average. I’m just shaking my head now. Even though I know the truth of all that happened to us and more folks that haven’t ever ventured on this site …I still want it to be a bad dream I’m experiencing … or at least allow me to be the next Stephen King writing horror books/movies for a living. Either way, as surreal as it is for us that are in touch with our emotions, it’s suppose to be so devoid living your life never feeling a thing … just going through the motions.
Peace.
Attorneys….
My attorney was awesome in my divorce…..she was of the ‘get it’ kind.
I have to say….Now…..from the beginning and looking back….and my recent exchanges I have had with her…..
I think she is way more familiar with these behaviors than i originally thought…..
I see smoke and mirrors now. I see her asking redundant questions appearing’ to help. Already been provided the answers, so she can snap at me for taking her time.
Making herself out to be the queen of important and busy, she just can’t be bothered by my legal wrap up that I need guidance on now….
I see how she throws out I still owe her $125.00 when I ask her a question after she offered to help me in a recent note she sent.
I see how she silences me and how I feel inside needing her help and she KNOWS it….
I see how she despised my ex and took total control over the whole proceedings in a cocky fashion…..(a benefit to me-no complaint there)
I see how she blamed me for things her assistant never notified me of……several missed apts….I never knew about and she couldn’t produce the email she claimed I was sent. documents claimed they were sent to me and I never received….
I knew then what she was doing and had to stay vigilant to follow up on anything I knew was coming from the office (or should have been coming)….I walked on eggshells with how cavalier her assistant was,,,because he knew the gig….and knew it would rest in the clients lap ultimately….Come to think of it….from the very first call prior to my consult…he stated things to me and claimed he never said them….said he had spoken with legal aid and then claimed he never said that….blah, blah…
These behaviors were difficult, but the outcome was necessary…..
So my point is……I am wondering if it’s helpful to us (as my attorney was VERY successful for me), to look for an attorney that exhibets these traits from the getgo……
A sociopathic ‘styled’ attorney…..They don’t like each other in competition and the divorce arena is a competition….
That said, realizing that there WILL come a point that they will use the same behaviors that once benefited you, to distance themselves to move along to another battle and they won’t be there for the smaller billable hours…..the riff raff clean up…tie up loose ends work. no glory there.
In hiring an attorney with these traits….step gently….But I think you need a sociopath style to fight sociopath style….
You need to be ‘on it’ and not just ‘trust’ everything they do is done…..
You need to have your own follow up system
and a good relationship with the assistants.
You need to do all you can to remain ‘on her side’ while you need her…..
Keep her focused, or she is off on a tangent about something completely unrelated.
Strategy’s change from day to day….so keep in touch (on her time).
Everything needs to be in writing. Take nothing at face value.
And don’t piss her off, or she will turn on you in a second!
It’s all kinda like dealing with the ex’s….really!
The alternative….a really nice, nice person you can chat about the kids with, feel validated and warm and lose your ass in your divorce!
And still pay the fees!
Hmmmmmm……I’m keeping mine!
Erin,
This whole saga (jon & kate) is about to take on a whole new dimension, is what I think….
First off they are a different kind of “celebrity” to BEGIN with. they didn’t really ease into it. Most actors, struggle a bit, act in films, tv, whatever and then become a popular celebrity and THEN have their personal life, scrutinized by the public.
Jon & Kate had 6 babies and then went on reality tv right away, and raised their kids in the “public eye” and that is also how they supprted them ($$$$) They were being scrutinized right away. NOT that they didn’t have a choice to decline the offer of the tv show. But I’m sure it sounded two good to be true in the begining. The MONEY for one thing. Going from 2 kids to 8 kids overnight would be a tremendous strain on anybodys budget. Look at the house they live in, the trips that they were able to afford to take the kids….., He took the girls on one trip, she took the boys on another…..Yes it all sounded good. She got to connect with a smaller group he got to connect with a smaller group, each kid was given more one on one time, yadda, yadda….But MOST people with 8 kids can’t afford this luxury.
Talk about two life altering experiences. 6 BABIES & REALITY TV all at once….To much to soon? Well it is obvious that their marriage didn’t survive it….
Now she has the “public” humiliation of him leaving to be with other women and a very public divorce. And the show must go on??? Well without the show I would suppose neither one could pay the bills at this point. Divorce is ugly at its best and maybe it is to much REALITY for viewers who originally tuned in to watch a couple raising their 8 kids. It was inevidable that the show would change when their status as a couple went down hill…
But it changed from what many percieved as a fairy tale, a nice couple with their 8 kids, to what it is now. He said, she said kind of thing. Maybe it all just happened so fast that she isn’t able to see through the “fog” yet.
Hopefully she will take the high road as this gets uglier and uglier. If for no other reason than to protect her kids from the “mud slinging” that the press will certainly be more than happy to oblige with.
Divorce can really being out the worst in people. Public divorces I would suspect are even worse. The humiliation of having it “all out there” for the world to see has to be pretty difficult.
Witsend:
Yeah….I won’t even go into the ‘show’ aspect and how they arrived at ‘today’……
I was just wondering from a S’s perspective if anyone else is seeing any familiar behaviors from one or both of them.
Yes, she is very controlling….
Yes, he is a stupid ass making a public fool
……
Now….look at the divorce part…..
He seems to be making classic moves that I dont think will fare well in court.
It’s clear he was fine with filming…..but draining an account (if true) and then halting production…..
I see this as a starve out and punishment tactic.
Then crying out on tv how much he cares aobut the kids well being….
I am just not so sure I buy that…..what changed his mind all of a sudden….
Did he care when he parades around talking shit about their mother….true or not…..and when he is out carousing with YOUNG women ( i know he is not that old)….but the kids NANNY or babysitters? And publicly?
This is when I think she needs to just shut up and let the process proceed…..counter control…..she has already mastered the control part……
or is he the one counter controlling……her controll?
I don’t think she has anything to gain but ego by speaking out…..she is sitting in a much prettier position…..she is getting media invites (paying jobs) and freebies to support lifestyle. He is getting milkshake commercials….
Obviously neither is thinking long term here…..
when the ink dries and neither have jobs or income and they still have 8 kids to raise and put through therapy from the destruction of a nasty divorce.
Well said Erin….I don’t think either one of them is thinking of the big picture yet.
They are both to caught up in the ‘heat’ of the moment. I honestly don’t think she knows what she is dealing with, (and it is to soon to tell for sure) other than the public humiliation part of it. But something tells me it will get worse before it gets better.
Guys, Keep in mind that there are relationships with TWO personality disordereed people in the relationship who take turns being either victim or abuser—“GASOLINE AND FIRE” relationships. Both victims, and both abusers. soemtimes one is a passive aggressive person and the other one aggressive-aggressive but you know, the AGGRESSIVE is in there.
I used to get so mad at patients who would come in with soem “trumped up complaint” to get a “doctor’s note” so they could go fishing and get an excuse for missing work. Invariably they would say “i threw up last night” which meant I had to do a complete work up on their belly.
These same people kept coming back and I knew through the community what they were up to, so I told the front desk, MAKE THEM WAIT for at least an hour to get in even if I have NO OTHER PATIENTS (that is passive aggressive) That didn’t stop them so come first day of deer season, guess who was in for an UNappointment, so after they waited for an hour in the waiting room, I told my nurse to strip them buck naked and put them on a steel table—and then I would let them wait anotherr hour. Because most of th epeople in the office were over weight most of the time the office temp was 60-62 degrees, so they FROZE while they were waiting.
Then I would (if I had time) do every test I could think of including a finger up the butt and by then the day was “shot” for them, then I would give them a phenergan shot “for nausea” and call their wife to leave work and come drive them home where they would sleep for 2-4 hours!
Twice of that regimine and I never saw those people back in the office unless they really WERE SICK, and since we were their primary care designates they couldn’t go anywhere else.
My supervising doc called me a “Passive aggressive old witch, out to ruin their fun” and HE WAS RIGHT, I WAS JUST THAT!
But sometimes when you can’t get anything by being up front (If I had called them fakers I could have gotten in big trouble) so you do what you can, and passive aggressive works in that situation. maybe that’s my “inner Psychopath” that did that! LOL
With my kids if they faked a “stomach ache” to stay home from school, I would put them on bread and water.
so real food won’t hurt your tummy” and make them stay in BED all day in the DARK “so the light won’t hurt your eyes” and that also broke them of “faking sick” to stay home from school to play and read their favorite books.
However, if their grades were good and if they ASKEd I would let them stay home for a “mental health” day out of school once in a while.
Some of these “star” relationships are I think made up of TWO dysfunctional people, add a dash of ego, a BIG dash, and lots of money and people adoring them and stir up and guess what you have, an EXPLOSIVE SOAP OPERA! Lots of times what happened to Elvis, Michael Jackson, marilyn Monroe, Glen Campbell, and so on happens. They end up drugging, sexing, boozing, and self destructing.
They are no different than the rest of the human race, they just have more money and more problems and they hve to handle (or not, as the case may be) in public.
So none of you will even entertain the idea that they are just acting? The whole thing was agreed to in advance for THE MONEY? I just can’t see it any other way.
When in doubt, follow the money, I always say.
Dear Skylar, just up front, I want you to know, I am not flaming you, but AM disagreeing with you!
When my egg donor accused me of “being after” her money, when I tried to get the 3 x child molesting ex-criminal out of her house as her live in “caregiver” her lawyer said “it’s ALWAYS about the money!” and sneered at me.
NO! it is NOT always about the money! I would have lived in a card board box, and eaten out of a dumpster before I would have even ASKED my egg donor for money! Much less have taken any, even when she asked if I “needed” any, because I do know that some Ps try to “guilt” others into owing them and therefore they control the other person with their “gifts” but there are some people that money can’t buy—I’m one of them, but there must be others in this world, I am sure of it. At LEAST “one or two” others in the world, and I think they are probably on this blog.
With my P X-DIL and the Trojan horse P and my P son it WAS about the money!
since we don’t know if either or both of these people are Ps, I don’t think at THIS point we can make a judgment about WHAT it is all about!
too true Oxy, my p-dad proved that to me 2 days ago. I asked him a simple question and he couldn’t answer it because he thought I was trying go con him – out of money of course. Just like your mom. that is so funny. the P’s just think whenever you open your mouth it’s about money. So touche.
But in the case of the jon and kate, I still believe it’s acting – for the money.. There is the evidence: they began the show for the money. The show cannot continue if it doesn’t get ratings. The rating go up if more people are talking about it. The show is not that interesting. I have seen the show and it strikes me as a twitter or a facebook. Just about them and what they do everyday. Without drama, it would tank. So they give it drama. I must be the only cynical one here..