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By | October 7, 2007 67 Comments

If someone has most psychopathic traits, it’s reason enough to leave

Lovefraud recently received the following letter from a reader:

My ex has almost all the characteristics I have read on your site. He lies habitually, is financially irresponsible, and lets the burden fall on friends and family, and he started to burden me from the beginning financially on a small scale. I had hints in the beginning that he was a jerk when he disrespected my father (I wasn’t sure at the time if it was on purpose, or inadvertent), but at the same time it was confusing because he seemed so pleasant, helpful and charming. He also cooked for me every night and helped me with my kids, but as far as work goes, he was lazy and lied about working at times. He borrowed small amounts of money from me, which I stopped lending him right away; I was not stupid about him in that respect. At the end he lived with me for 4 months, and never contributed much financially, that’s one reason I ended it finally. And the lying got to be too much; I don’t know what I was thinking. I do not know of any infidelity, but I suppose it’s possible.

His family actually admitted to me that he lies all the time, that’s just him. He finally admitted it to me in a round about way that he does lie, but he said that his family finds it “endearing” of all things!!

He also got psycho when I broke it off, just like in your article — he even admitted himself to the hospital complaining of heart problems. He was there 2 days and was then sent home as being fine, and they sent him home with Xanex. While he was there he called me for pity, saying he was there because I broke up with him.

But what throws me off a little is that he appears to be, if anything, abnormally attached to his daughter. It seems overbearing at times. Later in our relationship I saw sometimes total disregard for her in other less obvious ways, which I found off. The other thing that throws me off is he was very physically affectionate with me, and very clingy, almost codependent that way. And he does have friends from childhood who live out of state (who I have met) but he’s lived in Florida for about 10 years and has no real friends here. He is very close with his family.

Could he still be a sociopath???

Psychopathy syndrome

Psychopathy, also called sociopathy, is a syndrome. A syndrome is defined as “a group of symptoms that together are characteristic of a specific disorder, disease or the like.”

The key symptoms of psychopathy, according to Dr. Robert Hare, are the following:

  • Glib and superficial
  • Egocentric and grandiose
  • Lack of remorse or guilt
  • Lack of empathy
  • Deceitful and manipulative
  • Shallow emotions
  • Impulsive
  • Poor behavior controls
  • Need for excitement
  • Lack of responsibility
  • Early behavior problems
  • Adult antisocial behavior

However, not all psychopaths have all the symptoms. Plus, psychopaths can have the symptoms to varying degrees. For example, some—perhaps the one described in the letter—may not have a pronounced need for excitement. They may be content to find some chump to support them and then sit on their butts. But if the person had all the other traits—well, he or she may very well have the personality disorder.

Holding on to hope

I’ve heard from several Lovefraud readers who seem to be holding on to the hope that a person is not a psychopath because he or she doesn’t exhibit one of the behaviors. One woman said that although her boyfriend exhibited all the other traits, he never tried to get money from her, so maybe he wasn’t really a psychopath. Another wrote that her boyfriend would kiss her with what seemed like such depth of emotion—how could he be lacking in empathy?

One of the markers of a budding psychopath is that as a child, he or she is cruel to animals. My ex-husband, James Montgomery, seemed to love animals. He owned several dogs and took mine for a walk every morning. He brought home four exotic pets—a hedgehog, two sugar gliders, and a chinchilla. Once the chinchilla got loose and caught his foot in a humidifier, which sent him into shock. My husband performed chinchilla CPR, and the animal recovered. Did any of this make him less of a psychopath? Absolutely not. He was quite happy to take a quarter million dollars from me, cheat on me throughout our short marriage, have a child with another woman and then commit bigamy to marry her.

Don’t quibble about one missing trait

So, here is how I replied to the letter above:

There are degrees to which someone can be a sociopath—some are worse than others. It is also possible to have several personality disorders or conditions at the same time. This is called “co-morbidity.” Your ex definitely sounds like he has sociopathic traits, but he could also have other problems.

The attention paid to his daughter could be for show. Sociopaths often act like they care—when it is all a charade. The fact that he also disregarded her is telling.

Sociopaths are highly sexual. It may be difficult to tell whether there was actual affection involved.

Whatever his problems are, it is good that you are away from him.

If someone has come into your life who has most of the symptoms of a psychopath, don’t quibble about the one or two that may not be very pronounced. When most of the traits are present, run, don’t walk, for the nearest exit.


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Hi,

Well if this is the case then I am afflicted with the same issues myself wouldn’t you say?

I try really hard to live a normal life, but I just can’t for some reason.

I have lied and manipulated people.

I have lived with my ex as a roommate and at first really contributed but as my situation deteriorated, I have become financially insecure.

I do think I feel love, but at times I am not sure if it is just that the other person makes me feel good or that they are useful to me in some way.

I don’t have many friends and the ones that I do have I am jealous of most of the time or always finding some fault with them.

I did start fires as a kid though I was never ever cruel to animals. I do cry when I see animals in trouble or being mistreated.

I certainly have impulse control issues.

I have guilt to a certain extent when I do something wrong unless I can justify it some way – ie the other person deserved it or I didn’t know what I was doing at the time.

How does one get away from oneself in this instance?

I feel empty and hopeless if I am not in control of a situation or the center of attention.

I don’t like to be in crowds of people and tend to stay away from parties.

I get depressed quite often.

Am I doomed to live like this forever?

Everyone is discussing the inner triangle. DBT is a treatment that I would suggest you look into hoehearted. DBThelps people strengthen their impulse control. If you have impulse control, you can begin to make good choices and develop greater ability to love.

beastflow

holehearted

You don’t sound like a bad person to me. You have introspection and you seem to feel bad about the things that you’ve done; those two things alone show that you are human. I think the mind is perhaps more complex than it is given credit for, and just because you have at times behaved badly, it does not mean that your soul is rotten.

Everyone messes up at times in life and behaves badly. If there is something you’ve done that’s bad, can I suggest you try to make ammends for it? Say sorry, show who ever you’ve hurt that you care, pay back money, take responsibility for things that you’ve done wrong and seek help so that you can prevent similar hurtful situations arising again. You might find that doing that restores your self respect and once you feel better about who you are and respect yourself more, you’ll probably find you respect others more too.

smellycat

Am I wrong in wanting to expose my psycho? He infected
me with HPV-16, I am pre-cancerous and have to have a
biopsy every three months til who knows when. His previous wife did get cervical cancer from him. Of course he told me he didn’t know he had it but in reality, he’s had it for more than 30 years.

Is there a legal way to stop him from infecting anyone else? Is there a website where I can warn other women?

He has stopped all communication with me and I’m so
ANGRY. He thinks I’m the sicko because I’ve been acting so irrationally since I met him 2 years ago. Why should he move on to someone else and commit the same crimes?

I can’t help it; I want to cause him pain.

smellycat

Shoot! I forgot to add that he collects $45,000.00 a year in disability payments because he got a diagnosis
of bi-polar when he was in the army 30 years ago. He is so much more than bi-polar, in fact, he isn’t even on meds for that. He’s addicted to benzos, and got me addicted to them shortly after I met him. He told me it would help me sleep. I went through hell getting off of that nasty drug. I had no idea of the dangers. Now I realize that he used the benzos to make me dependent and weak. Is this not a crime?

loserchooser

smellycat;

I don’t know of any websites that expose people who carry around STD’s. You might want to try datingpsychos.com. I listed my pscho there back in July, but really, how many women look for those sites. I won’t because frankly, right now I can’t stand the thought of even having a light conversation with a man, let alone a DATE!

These people, the psychos, they seem to know by instinct, what they can do to us that is just under the arm of the law. For instance, 2 years ago, I had a 380 handgun. I bought a new gun, so my husband told me he was going to an auction that was selling handguns, and would I like for him to take mine to sell. I said sure. That evening he came home and said, your gun sold for $75.00, and handed me the money. That was the last of that, I thought, until yesterday. I went to my lawyers office to go over the inventory and appraisement my husbands lawyer sent over. He listed under “sporting goods and misc. that I had in my possession that 380 handgun! I told my lawyer that he sold that 2 years ago. She told me I better go to the police, so I did. You know what they told me?? That is a civil matter, you will have to discuss that in court! I said, well he has 2 dead ex wives I guess I’ll be #3. So I go to the auctioneers and talk to him (the auctioneer is a customer of mine) and he said, I’ll check my records, but I would remember if he brought a gun to sell. He called me later and said, no he didn’t bring a gun to sell.

So he had been setting me up 2 years ago and guess what! Not a damn thing I can do about it, but sit, wait and see.

It so sucks to have this much anger and stress, when our ex’s are going on and not feeling a thing!

Smellycat,

I know you want to get even with him. I felt the same way for a while.. you know beat him at his own game.

It doesn’t work, it always backfires for a few reasons…

1. when you try to intentionally hurt someone, the law of the universe brings it right back on you.

2. when you try to get back at a sociopath (and even when you don’t) they will turn it around on you and make you look even worse.

3. It causes distress for you to constantly plan things to do.

4. It reinforces the next victim’s belief that you are the bad one.

5. It’s just not worth it… concentrate your energy on doing positive things for yourself instead of bad things to him.

I am slowly returning to normal.. whatever that is.

Good luck

Beastflow,

Thank you for your kind words. It really drives me nuts to think I might be the bad guy.

Though I know I could have handled things better and treated him better even though he was doing rotten things, I am not ALL bad.

Also, most of my anger was because of his lies and because of his stealing and all the things he did in the 3 years I was with him.

Plus I don’t know if me being the perfect girlfriend would have changed anything or just would have given him more freedom to do whatever he wanted to me and others.

Thank you

Hi,

So my ex is engaged to his new victim. What a farce.

I want to throw up and scream.

T

alohatraveler

Smellycat and holehearted,

Isn’t it awful how getting even only makes you look like the crazy one? I totally got that! ARGH! I did call the police on my ex once and he made it look like I was a hysterical psycho and by the time the police man left, they were “Bros.”

Definately let go of revenge. Just adhere firmly to the NO CONTACT rule and get on with your life. I believe that one day, their stories and manipulations will catch up with them.

Take care of you now.

beastflow

holehearted

Sounds like you’re being too hard on yourself. I feel it’s often important to try and judge where your doing wrong ends, and where their wrong doing begins. It sounds to me as though you’re taking on board the wrongs of someone else as though they are yours. If your ex is a psychopath, then it seems very likely that you’re being manipulated into feeling bad things about yourself and being actively encouraged to behave badly in order for him to then justify all manner of his own appalling behaviour. Make ammends for your own wrong doings, but go easy on yourself, don’t make ammends for his wrong doings. I don’t know your situation but it just seems you’re being very harsh and unforgiving of yourself.

Margaret

I heard the best advice concerning women dating men recently. However, I believe it applies to any situation. The advice was ‘Don’t believe a word he says only what he actually does.’ This works for just about everything if not everything.

My daughter is ‘engaged’ to a sociopath and has no clue. He’s really not planning on marring her, but he may only if it suits his needs. This would be the 4th marriage. The time between #2 and #3 was about 14 days between divorce and marriage. He is also financially unreliable, blames all his ills on everyone else, talks about his big plans but in the end produces nothing of value. He also has no remorse — because he only knows how to copy other people’s emotions.

Forget this guy and study up on what you should be looking for. These people turn up in all walks of life. I’ve watched people in the business arena try to take legal action against such people 1) because they believe it is the right way to proceed and 2) because they want the person to feel their pain. It is a total waste of time. Sociopaths never feel their pain or anyone elses. They only learn how to do it better the next time.

Frank Lee Speaking

The thing about the pets is interesting.

But I am worried about losing my own humanity in relationship to this issue which has recently come up in my life. My Ex-spath recently lost her dog. When the lunatic broke up with me and left for another guy on the sly, one of the things that also hurt was losing access to her pet Maltese which I loved too. She seem to be completely oblivious to my sadness in that aspect.

In every other way she was the TEXT BOOK female sociopath except she never took money from me. The dog was the only part of her humanity I think she had. Although I know for a fact she used it to make her look kind to others, and I know for a fact she uses the dog to swindle a lonley old lady out of her home and life savings by calling her the dog’s “other mom”. She got free rent for many months off her at least.

Anyways, I recently found out the dog died and I know she was looking at my website as her ISP came up in the statcounter. I am concerend that she might contact me as I want nothing to to with the cold blooded lunatic.

It would be pity play from her of course – but I did love the dog too. I want to ignore her, I really want to tell her to “f**k of and die” herself for what she put me through this time last year.

But there is also a part of me who wants to offer my sympathy for the dog passing. But at the same time I do not what to reopen any kind of communication conduit with the psychopath. What to do if she contacts me to tell me the dog passed away? If I ignore or tell it to get lost she was tell other people we know I am a heartless lowlife. It’s a no win situation for me.

When will this nightmare ever end so I can no longer think about or be concerned with this lowlife and what it di to me…

silvermoon

Frank Lee,

There is a process to the healing and reintegration of your self that takes time and process. Be strong, be active in the process and it does work.

One thing that makes a huge difference is working on gaining control of the thinking you do that allows her to haunt you so that you can focus on what is real and true and right in front of you.

Go ahead and be a heartless lowlife to her. The key to making the nightmare over is NO CONTACT. Cut your losses and walk.
There isn’t any way to redeem the situation. None more might wish it were so than I, but you can’t argue with the equation what is:is.

There is much support in this community for the nightmare experience and you will as so many have, I believe, find that there ARE people who understand your side of the story.

Even if a lot of other ones don’t get it for a time to come.

Be at peace. Quiet your mind. Do your homework on what you are dealing with.

Remember your pet for the loving and dignified creature it was. Your dog knew Opening a door for communication is just an invitation to more of what you are trying to recover from.

We know how hard it is when you want to tell them off or tell them anything. But it doesn’t work. Talk here. Speak often.

WE’ll be right here.

Frank Lee Speaking

Thanks Slivermoon. You are right. The god loved me and I the dog. That’s enough.

Thanks so much.

Frank Lee Speaking

Sorry I ment “dog” and not “god”

silvermoon

FLS-

There are those who might argue that the words are indeed interchangeable.

Its all good.

Breathe. Focus. Be.
🙂

Cat

In all the reading I’ve done on LF, this is my first time coming across this article and it pretty much screamed at me. I was constantly confused by my ex-spath’s behavior. My head was spinning on a regular basis.
At times, he would get up (he normally slept all day) and clean and cook like a crazed man. He would do something nice for a neighbor. At the same time, he gave almost nothing in terms of money to keep the household going, he was constantly verbally abusive and didn’t want to interact with people other than those he knew that were “like minded”, in that they too were into the drug scene. Later, I discovered that he was cleaning and cooking because he was high.
I came to realize he did nothing at all unless it was self-serving. There was always something in it for him. I had to step away emotionally and look at it as logically as I could. The pieces were falling into place.
My ex, who has diabetes, was famous for landing in the hospital and it reached the point where I refused to go visit him at all. I already knew that while he might be sick, being in the hospital put him in a place where he expected pity and I reached the point where I no longer was able to or WANTED to give it. There was simply nothing there.
Much like others, I too questioned if I was a sociopath as well and came to understand that turning off my emotions was a symptom of self-preservation. I’ve also come to understand that I was a control freak, seeking to maintain control of something, anything, and I did it through money. THAT was an illusion as well because, of course, he did exactly what he wanted, when he wanted.
My ex does not have all of the traits listed. He has the majority of them though. It was through LF that I was able to finally read about the traits and understand just what I was dealing with. He was, and remains so, a master manipulator. As I write this, he is in court AGAIN for theft. I found that out from someone who knew how to look up the court records. This to me is proof positive that they don’t change.
For me, part of the healing process has been asking myself about my own behaviors and being very honest with myself. I know today that I am not one, but I do think looking at our own behaviors is part of the healing process.

Frank Lee, I agree with Silvermoon and I do understand your story. I’ve been there. Time is such an important factor, especially if we fill it with healing thoughts and behaviors.
As I stated, I have been through the process of looking at my own behaviors and questioning them. It’s not fun sometimes, but it works! Go easy on yourself.

Cat

silvermoon, I like the word “reintergration”! We’re putting ourselves together again, in a new and better way.

Buttons

Cat, powerful words!!!! Yes, we DO become immersed in it, don’t we? I sure did – I engaged in lying and helped the ex spath to file false insurance claims……hell, YES I did. And, I also engaged in a multitude of other sins that I knew, at the time, were “wrong” and chose to go with the program instead of saying, “NO! I’m NOT going to do this, anymore!” To do otherwise meant more severe abuse! Standing accountable for my stupidity was one of the first things that I did – I wrote a long letter to both of my parents outlining everything that I had taken part in and done during my marriage to the ex spath. I knew it was a risk that I might lose their love – it was something that I had to do. I HAD to do it to wipe the slate clean and this was not suggested, recommended, or instructed by any counselor or therapist. This was something that I felt was necessary for me. I kept the accounting to my actions, only. What the ex spath did was congealing on his own plate and I couldn’t (and, wouldn’t) apologize for his sins – ONLY my own.

To my wonder, my parents not only forgave me for my stupidity, but they developed a respect for me that I had never known during my entire life.

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons,

The first step we must make in changing our lives is to admit the things we have done that are wrong, either by ommission or commission. Acknowledge those things–amend them if possible, but have a genuine sorrow that we did them, and accept responsibility for our choices to do them.

The person who can never admit their own wrong doing, take responsibility for it, feel guilty for having done wrong, and make amends if possible….they can never heal, or grow. That’s the psychopath.

We may have done some pretty “bad” things but we knew they were wrong and we chose to do them any way, to excuse our bad behavior—but we felt guilty about doing them even if we did them. The psychopath has no guilty feeling for their bad deeds, but only entitlement.

The Bible says that there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than 99 who need no repentence! And I also know that “feeling clean” after TRULY repenting and no longer bearing that burden of guilt is a wonderful feeling in itself. But6, while our souls may be forgiven and pure, if there aqre LEGAL consequences for anything we did, we still OWE THAT DEBT.

Last night reading that link Blogger T put up about the Baptist ministers who were child abusers and the one said that since his “sin” was covered by the “blood of jesus” it COULD NEVER BE MENTIONED AGAIN. He was confusing (choosing to confuse, obviously) spiritual forgiveness with LEGAL consequences and they are NOT the same thing. But how TYPICAL of a psychopath to interpret things that way! LOL

silvermoon

THEY can’t help it. Its what they do. They may know its a choice, but one they make with compulsion.

We truly have the advantage of reason.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

list of traits in targetted individuals, from the website, the Sociopathic Style
http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/victims.htm

This list is not exhaustive. A person possessing the traits listed below is a prime target for victimization by a person desiring a Sociopathic Styleâ„¢ relationship.

* A belief that if you love enough the person will change
* A belief that if you love enough the relationship will succeed
* Difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries
* Not being able to say no
* Being easily influenced by others
* Wanting to be rescued from your life situation
* Wanting to rescue others from their distress
* Being over nurturing particularly when not asked
* Feelings of shame and self doubt
* Low self esteem
* A lack of memories about childhood or periods of adulthood
* Shyness
* Difficulty communicating
* A lack of self confidence
* Wanting to please
* A lack of motivation from within and being motivated by
what others want

found THIS very interesting: ‘* A lack of memories about childhood or periods of adulthood’

i have a lack o f memories – anyone else?

GettingIt

Very interesting, One Step. I got most of these too. My memory is horrific since childhood. I’ve always thought it was some disorder. I overcompensate by good brains, but have no attention to detail. When I remember my past, it comes in pieces and as if it were with someone else. But, that’s the PTSD thing, and I am not sure when it started. I’ve had my shares of trauma though. But, nothing, nothing could compare to the snake that I put close to my heart.

GettingIt

Poor memory sometimes means poor concentration, daydreaming, poor recall, etc. I wonder what exactly they mean? dissociation?

Ox Drover

Lack of memory (short term) boy, that fits me, but I can date that to the day, hour, and date of the aircraft crash! Prior to that I had GREAT recall short and long term. I could quote back to you a list of 100 numbers, and give them to you backwards, forwards, skip every other one, or every thrid one. It was almost a “parlor trick” no big deal! After the crash, I couldn’t remember 2 numbers in sequence, couldn’t dial a phone number, and forgot the way to my best friend’s house where I had been 1000 times.

I also know I dissociated too, usually when Ii was in some kind of emergency situation where I thought I was going to die (a car wreck once and a couple of other times) supposedly people who are more easily hypnotized or who dissociate in face of danger (freeze in response to stress) are more apt to get PTSD that is severe and that hangs around a while. I realize now that the plane crash wasn’t the first time I had PTSD either.

But I think just as a psychopath is more prone genetically to be a prepedator there are those of us more genetically and environmentally prone to be unresisting victims under certain circumstances.

I’ve seen prey animals when in the inescapable clutches of big cats Dissociate and “self pacify” so that they are not feeling any pain as they die. They have “blanked out” sort of. In a way it is somewhat conforting to know they aren’t suffering. It is only if we LIVE over the “lifethreatening” event that we suffer from the PTSD. I guess that is the price we pay for the comfort we get in the moment of stress when we think we are going to die.

Adrenaline is also a very potent anesthetic. If you are injured and bones are broken, you may not feel the pain for several hours due to the natural pain killers that broken bones release in our brains. Been there and done that one too.

In the meantime, I can use my intellectual capacity to THINK to work through the trauma of being a survivor! As I am working on it, and as time goes by, I know that it is up to me to keep myself safe and stay out of the territory of the killers.

If I stay terrorized, I can’t protect myself, and even if I did, life wouldn’t be worth very much living like that! The best revenge is a good life! Living until we do die, not dying over and over every minute of every day!

super chic

I don’t have a lot of childhood memories. I have even resorted to asking my sister “What was I like? How did Dad treat us? Etc, etc.” I don’t know what’s wrong with me.

GettingIt

you know, I’ve been thinking lately: I had lived through one rape, one attempted rape, a terrible near death crash, two clinical deaths, gun pointed at me, several robberies, horrible pains, kids being terribly ill. It’s never been easy, but I took it as Life goes on, and the nucleus stays in tact. Once I let the Psycho inside that “nucleus”, things changed. Perhaps, we’ve all had trauma before, but were able to manage it, some better, some – not so well. Yet, when it is someone you trust most and love most who betrays you and threatens your life, things look a lot different. Suddenly, trust is not a word you understand and stress is not a passing traumatic event, but a horrid present that haunts and haunts you (of course, had I not had a child with IT, I’d be much better off emotionally) so, I am sure things are not so glim for everyone and there is yet hope for me.

ErinBrock

Here is a link to a very interesting video of James Biela (curretnly on trial for murdering 19 year old Briana Denison and raping 2 college girls)
This video is of him in the interogation room and his GF was allowed to go in and speak to him.
I’ts hard to hear in bits….but listen to him…..she is hysterical wanting to know if he ‘did it’….if he is the killer.
At some points he’s picking his nails…..and when he hugs her….he lifts his hand up like he’s bored to death.
His arms are not giving an endearing I love you hug.
He keeps saying he’s a ‘fuck up’….I’m sorry I’m a fuck up.
But he won’t admit to killing or raping.
He also has those crocodile tears going on.
It is classic behavior of a sociopath to watch….IN ACTION!

From first glance, the gf looks just like any of us….and he does to. And several years ago…..I would have been fooled by the ‘appearance’ of the ‘nice family’.
NOT TODAY!
I see him, clear as a bell……
Also watching him in court is spooky. He’s very empty.
In this video he sounds like a forced whiney weirdo.
He asks his gf will you always love me…..ensuring that he will always have a ‘supply’…..as he KNOWS he’s going down!
He also says Don’t tell ‘josh’ (their 4 year old son).

His poor gf just wants to hear it…….BUT….he ain’t gonna give her what SHE wants….the truth….he dances around it.
He NEVER denies it, but he won’t answer her questions.

His actions of hugging her are forced….
CHECK it out and tell me what you think.
http://www.rgj.com/article/20100520/NEWS01/100520040

Ox Drover

Getting it, I can’t remember where I read it but I read something somewhere that said basically, that “BETRAYAL is the worst kind of trauma there is, and the most painful.”

If a snake bites us, it may hurt, may even kill us but we EXPECT a snake to do that, it isn’t like we trusted the snake in the first place, it just did what snakes do. But instead, think let’s say you have a sweet family pet do, as nice a dog as can be, and one day you turn your back on that dog and it kills and eats your child! THAT is BETRAYAL. It is unexpected, it is uncalled for and you will never get over it.

If it had been the snake that bit your kid you could recover, but you could have a hell of a time recovering from the betrayal of the dog you trusted and loved. Now multiply that by your lover killing the child, or your mother kiling the child, or one child killing another. In any of those cases, the child is dead, the loss is the same, but the TRAUMA is not the same.

Ox Drover

ErinB,

I’m not sure why but I was able to watch that video on my usually SLOW connection to the internet, and the woman’s heart breaking sobs were so real and his behavior was so PSYCHOPATHIC—sheesh. He had no concept or care for how badly she was hurting, as she realized what a monster he IS! I COULD SO RELATE. I spent three months in the same emotional shape that woman was in after my P son was arrested for murder, and he was so cool, calm and collected, so unfeeling, not even afraid of what he was facing. SHEESH!

OMG, how can anything that looks so human be so INhuman? Be so defective. So empty.

super chic

EB, jeez, he looks like he CAN’T WAIT until she just LEAVES the room.
What a monster. Is she still crying about him on the witness stand?

pollyannanomore

So so true, but through the process of grief and realisation probably most of us have been in this space of doubting our own perception and the evidence in front of us. Doubting yourself becomes second nature with a psychopath – that;s what they get us to do because it benefits their agenda.

It’s natural that this doubting continues even when there is realisation that something is badly (and probably clinically)
wrong. The loose definitions between similar conditions are also confusing – eg narcissism, sociopathy. It’s easy to wonder if one key symptom is missing then does the person really have a personality disorder?

The reality though is the effects are harmful no matter if there is or isn’t a clinical diagnosis. A little pathology results in a whole lotta harm for the victim or target.

We’ve all found that out the hard way.

I feel really bad for the writer of that letter – I remember the bargaining phase all too well when I didn’t want to accept that there was something majorly wrong with him. I remember wishing there was something I could do – anything but have to accept that I had wasted so many years with a person who would never change. I hope she (or he) has come to terms with the reality that they have to leave this person behind for their own sanity. I hope this person has some peace finally.

Buttons

Holy cow – I watched this video and my blood just ran cold. Not even a shred, hint, or suggestion of emotion – AT ALL. Not even when he asks her if she’ll still love him!

I wonder when (or, even IF) he started HIS crying game…

ErinBrock

the video was ordered removed by the judge this morning.
Hmmmmm womder why? Did it ‘show’ too much.

Judge ordered yesterday that certain pictures found on his computer were NOT to be shown to the jury, they were photos of females in thongs, that were apparantly VERY disturbing and the judge said he could not set aside his personal feelings as a father vs being a judge enough to be objective in re; to these photos, and he expected the jury to react the same.
The photos could be described to the jury, but not as pornography, children, sexual etc….only specific words could be used to describe.
(this defendant is said to have a ‘thong fetish’.)

I thought this was weird/telling…..and obviously gave the impression they were very harsh-graffic pictures.

Buttons

ick

Ox Drover

I don’t understand how these vids get on the Internet whiile they are STILL being used in court as evidence.

This guy is as cold as a dead fish if the vid of him and his GF in the interrigation room is any indication.

You see I have NO problem with TRUTHFUL yet graphic and nasty photos being shown to the jury, so what if they “prejudice” the jury against the criminal, isn’t that the PURPOSE OF EVIDENCE in the first place to show that he is GUILTY of HORRIBLE THINGS? So we can just TALK about “He killed these girls and slashed them up with a razor, but you can’t see the photographs of what he did to them cause it might upset you and prejudice you against him?” DUH!????

I knew there was some reason I chose not to go to law school, cause I think it would have tipped me over the edge into a total nut case, pulling my hair out on CNN while screaming THIS IS CRAZY!!!!!

ErinBrock

Oxy…That’s my feeling….evidence is evidence. He’s the one who did these ‘actions’ of the graphic stuff.
I didn’t understand the judges ruling on that.

The newspaper that published that video has NOT been following the courts rulings on respecting privacy of certain witnesses….blacking out faces of witnesses….voices, naming children and victims, they have been very ‘flippant’.

My opinion of this guy in person ,is YES….very cold and empty and dark. In the video, hearing his voice…..he had a soft mild tone (matter of fact) to him in video (as fake as he was)….but seeing him in person at the trial….I was surprised at his actual voice.

I shoulda gone to law school…… 🙂

Ox Drover

I coulodn’t understaqnd many of his words on the video as she was howling so loudly and her voice covering up anything he said, so I had to just look more at his body language. I also noticed him chewing his fingernails while the GF was with him.

I assume the trial is still going on and you are there watching. Yea, Erin B, you should have gone to law school, still could you know!

Does HE have family there? Is the GF there? I am interested in how HIS family is reacting? When Charles “jackie” Walls III the child molester of 1500 kids went to trial there were NONE of his family there, and as far as I know no one else to support him either, he is literally a “man without a single friend” to care if he lives or dies, and thousands of people who hate him.

I feel for the dead girls and their families but I also feel for the little boy he and GF have and for his family as well, they won’t get any empathy from anyone except someone like us. I do feel for them.

ErinBrock

His mother is there daily….and aunt/uncle and cousins occasionally.
Trail is due to last 3 weeks….2 weeks in already.
The Gf is now the EX. She is due to testify today.
Prosecution should wrap up their case today.

Hi family is silent, no facial expressions, not even when they take him in/out of courtroom….no ‘connection’….
THIS is odd to me.

When arrest first broke….gf took a lot of heat in the media. A lot of judging.
Gf shared her conccerns with a friend who reported it to secret witness….it pointed cops in a good direction.
The child had DNA sample taken, which matched the DNA from victims…..which led the defendents to his arrest.

In the video, he says to her….why did you lie. She said lie about what.
He was referring to letting them take DNA from the child.
He was attempting to place blame for his situation on HER!
(If YOU hadn’t of given our sons DNA, I wouldn’t be HERE right now).
SPathy.

Yes…..from reading reports and interviews from his family….they stand behind him. His sister has stood up and been very vocal.
They say he is NOT a monster he’s being portrayed as.
His family history is very spath conducive. Abusive, mentally ill father….abandoned by mother here and there for different men…..ya know the gig.
I think…..unless I am an alibi to someone (verifiable by ME)….I would never support on character alone……these days…..once a doubt is in my mind…..I don’t ignore it!
But….I do see how I have to be very conscious of this too….it’s easy/easier to ignore…..
There has been way too much happen in my life that I would have NEVER dreamed it would have gone that way.
So no assumptions about someones innocence anymore here.
I would believe anything these days.

Ox Drover

Well, Thanks Erin B, I am so glad it is the GF’s fault he was arrested because the Perp’s DNA was found on the victims and it matched his kid’s DNA and guess what—-it is her fault all together cause he killed these girls (1) if she’d been a better GF and given him what he needed he wouldn’t have had to get his sex somewhere else and (2) SHE ratted him out by letting the cops take the kid’s DNA so you see it is ALL THE GF’S FAULT! She has NO loyalty. Sheesh I thought you could see that! LOL

It is sort of P-ish I think for them to refuse to take a plea and to go to court and try to beat DNA and DEAD ON EVIDENCE. My P son refrused to take a plea in the first (robbery) trial, and I am not sure he was even offered a plea in the murder trial, but he went to trial both times. I was not allowed in the first one (he had his lawyer put me as a witness which excluded me from the courtroom so I couldn’t hear the evidence) and the murder trial he lied to me about when it was so I was not there to hear the evidence—he did NOT want me to hear it.

You know I wonder if there is something in a group of Ps that makes them refuse to give up hope of “beating” a charge in court ,even when the rest of the world could see they had NO chance. OJ did but he had the race card and zillion dollar lawyers and so on to help him, most Ps aren’t so fortunate.

Is it they think they can get off or is it the ATTENTION they get by being in court? Or both motives?

Buttons

What a scumbag coward………..EW……………

And, YES………..let the jury see what he did! My dear god, but he brutally, viciously, and heinously killed those beautiful girls in cold blood. Taint the jury’s perceptions? WELL maybe that’s what’s NEEDED, here! (snarl, hiss, spit)

ErinBrock

Oxy,
I’m not even sure they think about ‘beating’ something in court. I think they believe their own rewriting of history….so it didn’t happen and will take care of itself, of course I will ‘get off’.
I do think any attention is ‘good’ attention in their minds…….Not sure they can decipher.
It’s like the celebritys saying……as long as their talking about me.
Or any press is good press.
(hmmm where did THAT statement come from?).
As long as your in the news, you know your being thoguht of.

Prosecution didn’t wrap today….expecting Monday. Defense has about 45 witnesses to call on. I’m thinking another week or week and half to closing.

New evidence came out today…..reminded me of those odd statements spath used to make about things like 911 or devastatiing situations……totally inappropriate.

Defendant told his supervisor on the day they found her body, “the bitch probably deserved it”.
then asked for a voluntary lay off…..he had ‘drama’ in his life he was sick of and wanted to leave the state.
This was the second time he asked. It was granted and he left the state and sold his 2 year old truck in another state…..the vehicle identified in the rapes of the 2 girls.
When his boss entered the witness stand, james Biela smiled at him…..as if to say….’hey bro’. spath speak for….dude, don’t throw me under the buss!

BTW…..he is only charged with 1 count of murder….not all the girls. 2 were raped (outside of the murder victim). 1 rape V. was kidnapped also.

Monday should be interesting with the GF due to take the stand.

KOLO will have the live blog up….but no audio/video.

I think in a case like this….they ‘earn’ infamy by going to trial.
whether guilty or innocent (found).

I’m sure the judge had a ‘reason’ for his ruling……and today a detective ‘slipped’ the word pornography out…..and there was a big kafufal about it. They decided if they broached it with the jury it would bring more attention to the porn issue…..so they just let it go as an innocent slip.
Maybe it was….maybe it wasn’t.

The judge said…..he didn’t want the word to reflect ‘character’ of defendent in jury’s mind……this is how society judges people….by character….so why does it not matter in criminal trials……
This is how we ‘build’ up to the realization of ones we know are sociopaths…….past and current behaviors…..
In society….we don’t take things ONE behavior without connecting others we have seen.

Buttons….yeah….he is a scumbag. I can’t imagine how his GF feels duped…..the ‘why, why why’s’.
She also has a teenage daughter…….cant’ imagine how this has affected her whole family! DAMN HIM.

ErinBrock

Oh hey……spath is back in FLorida now……
his travels havn’t slowed down ONE BIT since his arrest.
He goes in a circle…..between 5 states 3000 miles apart….and then some.
I felt better to know this……BREATTTHHHHH!

ErinBrock

Here is a bit on the background of James Biela.

Here is a picture of his Bio father Joe Biela. (YIKES).
http://ktnv.images.worldnow.com/images/9423882_BG3.jpg

This link is how his family speaks of him. picture is of mother and step father.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20100511/NEWS/5090361/A-son-goes-on-trial-Biela-s-mother-says-He-s-not-the-monster

His history of trouble. Military discharge/TPO’s etc….

http://www.denverda.org/DNA_Documents/Familial_DNA/News%20Report%20re%20Biela.pdf

Rosa

That’s another characteristic of socios….they always have to be running somewhere….anywhere.

That’s all my sister-in-law does is run all over town all week long.
If she consolidated her trips, and actually planned things out ahead of time, she could get it all done in a day.

But, that would be too easy….and organized.

I think their chronic boredom gets the best of them, so they are in a constant state of run-around.
It makes them look busy to the unsuspecting on-lookers, like they are actually doing something (illusion).

Plus, I think they like being out “on display” among the public.
After all, they love to be seen.
It feeds the narcissism.

Rosa

Is this James Biela trial in a state where we can “fire up Old Sparky” if he’s found guilty???

Because I say, “Let’s Fire up Old Sparkey.”

ErinBrock

Rosa…. NV is a lethal inj. state.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

Alabama Effective 7/1/02, lethal injection will be administered unless the inmate requests electrocution.

Arizona Authorizes lethal injection for persons sentenced after 11/15/92; those sentenced before that date may select lethal injection or lethal gas.

Arkansas Authorizes lethal injection for persons whose offense occurred on or after 7/4/83; those who committed their offense before that date may select lethal injection or electrocution.

California Provides that lethal injection be administered unless the inmate requests lethal gas.

Colorado Lethal injection is the sole method.

Connecticut Lethal injection is the sole method.

Delaware Lethal Injection is the sole method. Hanging was an alternative for those whose offense occurred prior to 6/13/86, but as of July 2003 no inmates on death row were elligible to choose this alternative and Delaware dismantled its gallows.

Florida Allows prisoners to choose between lethal injection and electrocution

Georgia Lethal injection is the sole method. (On October 5, 2001, the Georgia Supreme Court held that the electric chair was cruel and unusual punishment and struck down the state’s use of the method)

Idaho Lethal injection is the sole method as of July 1, 2009.

Illinois Lethal injection is the state’s method. However, it authorizes electrocution if lethal injection is ever held to be unconstitutional.

Indiana Lethal injection is the sole method.

Kansas Lethal injection is the sole method.

Kentucky Authorizes lethal injection for those convicted after March 31, 1998; those who committed the offense before that date may select lethal injection or electrocution

Louisiana Lethal injection is the sole method.

Maryland Authorizes lethal injection for those who were sentenced for a capital offense on or after 3/25/94; those who were sentenced before that date could select lethal injection or lethal gas.

Mississippi Lethal injection is the sole method.

Missouri Authorizes lethal injection or lethal gas; the statute leaves unclear who decides what method to use, the inmate or the Director of the Missouri Department of Corrections.

Montana Lethal injection is the sole method.

Nebraska Electrocution was the sole method until the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled the method unconstitutional in February 2008. In May 2009, the Nebraska Legislature approved lethal injection.

Nevada Lethal injection is the sole method.

New Hampshire Authorizes hanging only if let
hal injection cannot be given.

New Mexico Lethal injection is the sole method. New Mexico abolished the death penalty in 2009. However, the act wasn’t retroactive, leaving two people on the state’s death row.

North Carolina Lethal injection is the sole method.

Ohio Lethal injection is the sole method. In November 2009, they adoped a one-drug protocol, using only sodium pentathol.

Oklahoma Authorizes electrocution if lethal injection is ever held to be unconstitutional and firing squad if both lethal injection and electrocution are held unconstitutional.

Oregon Lethal injection is the sole method.

Pennsylvania Lethal injection is the sole method.

South Carolina Allows prisoners to choose between lethal injection and electrocution

South Dakota Lethal injection is the sole method.

Tennessee Authorizes lethal injection for those whose capital offense occurred after December 31, 1998; those who committed the offense before that date may select electrocution by written waiver.

Texas Lethal injection is the sole meth
od.

Utah Authorizes firing squad if lethal injection is held
unconstitutional. Inmates who selected execution by firing squad prior to May 3, 2004, may still be entitled to execution by that method.

Virginia Allows prisoners to choose between lethal injection and electrocution

Washington Provides that lethal injection be administered unless the inmate requests hanging. In March 2010, the state announced an option for inmates to choose a 1-drug protocol.

Wyoming Authorizes lethal gas if lethal injection is ever held to be unconstitutional.

U.S. Military Lethal injection is the sole method
U.S. Government The method of execution of Federal prisoners for offenses under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 is that of the state in which the conviction took place, pursuant to 18 USC 3596. If the state has no death penalty, the judge must choose a state with the death penalty for carrying out the execution. For offenses under the 1988 Drug Kingpin Law, the method of executions is lethal injection, pursuant to 28 CFR, Part 26.

Rosa

Oklahoma really covered all it’s bases…..

Don’t get arrested in Oklahoma…or Utah.

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