A woman goes to the philharmonic in New York City alone. She meets a guy who is also alone. He asks her for a date, she goes once, doesn’t want to go again. She doesn’t return his calls. He sends an e-mail demanding to know why. Woman is so astounded she posts it on the Internet.
Read An investment banker’s cover letter for a second date, on Reddit.com.
Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.
Milo,
You bring up a funny topic. Now, when it comes to me and clothing, they have to smell or be falling apart before I will wash them, yep. I don’t care much about wrinkles, stains, cat hair, etc. However, since I am an English teacher, I have to be presentable, which I manage quite well (so long as no one notices that I wear running shoes on most days with my black slacks)
The reason your question is funny to me is because my mom, who I think is also an Aspie, is OCD about cleaning clothes. In her view, absolutely NOTHING can be worn twice without being washed in-between, even if it was worn for 45 minutes, hasn’t a spot of anything on it, and doesn’t have any wrinkles. We had big fights about this when I was old enough to dress myself. I’d pick up things off the floor, usually a favorite pair of jeans and top that I wanted to wear everyday, and she’d absolutely panic as though I’d just put on lingerie and tried to walk out the door. Also, she had a hair routine when I was growing up. She’d go into the bathroom at precisely the same time every morning and emerge looking exactly the same way as every other morning. Then I’d try to wander out the front door with wet hair, no make-up, etc. It is strange, because we both had a sort of obsession, but in an opposite way. For her, everything had to be “just so” and for me, everything had to be as non-complicated as possible. All the fuss over washing clean clothes made absolutely no sense to me, but for her, it came down to a matter of principles, about her knowing that something had already been worn and not wanting to go around all day knowing she was wearing something that had already been worn. She also matched hair ties to socks to eye shadow to bracelets. I, on the other hand, could never find my hair tie, a matching sock, or my eye shadow and didn’t even bother trying to add jewelry to the list of things to misplace.
Have you asked Grand why he likes to wear the same clothes again and again? I am curious why he feels so strongly about that. Does he hate the way washed clothes smell? Does he hate how rigid they are and don’t form to his body? Does the fabric kind of irritate him when it’s still a little “soapy” feeling? Or is it related to him not wanting to change a routine, to wanting to feel like things aren’t happening too fast? I am curious what his reason is for clinging to the outfit for so long.
Sky,
You have a good point. I read that campfire letter ages ago. He is a total nutcase, for sure, very much a freaky, freaky spath (and funny as hell). I don’t interpret the other guy’s persuasiveness as being so uniquely different, only in that his approach to gas-lighting her is different, and he seems to be applying whatever he learned at “banker school” in a relationship, which might be the only formal training he has in arguing with anyone. I think he is using “data” in order to make her feel irrational, to make her think she is the crazy one. After all, even Google says she likes him, so she has to like him. Who can deny Google articles? It’s so absolutist and absurd. My ex used to do this all the time to me. If we argued, he’d tell me that either a doctor told him this, or a historian, etc. He even went on Yahoo Answers once and asked a question, then answered it with various identities, to show me that lots of people agreed with him. He knew facts were important to other people, but the way he used them to his “advantage” was often out of context, because he totally missed the point of why facts are important. This banker may also be projecting. My spath was often poetic as well, but I am a poet and I love poetry, and he knew that. He was mirroring me, I think. This woman could have given off an air of sophistication and seriousness that would lead him to think “facts” are more her style. He could be trying to appeal to who he assumes she is with all his bullet-points and phrases like “include, but are not limited to” and ” Needless to say.”
He also tells her what is “real” in a way with these sorts of statements:
– It’s bad to do that.
– I suggest that you keep in mind…
– I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me.
– Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind.
Possible Tells:
I’m honest and direct by nature
I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.
Perhaps, you don’t think I have a “real” job
And his weird, awkward way of having emotions, or at least pretending to:
I’m disappointed, sad, etc.
I feel led on by you.
Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am.
Sounds like a parrot repeating, “I have emotions,” to me. They seem so “Mickey Mouse” and lacking of ingenuity the way they are delivered, I think.
Then again, this is just a letter. Probably we’d need to meet the guy and see his track record before we’d know for sure. Probably, we are trying too hard to diagnose this guy accurately with such a limited example of who he is. I’m leaning towards spath. At the very least, I’m sure that she should run like hell and I don’t think she is rude. A normal guy would call once and leave a message. Then, if he gets no response, he might send an email that says, “Hey, I thought we had a connection. Was I wrong? I’d like to see you again if you’re interested.” Then, if she doesn’t write back, he’d take a hint and leave her alone.
Panther ~
I can certainly see how that would have been difficult to have such opposite and conflicting “view points” on clothes, and I am sure many more things.
I have asked Grand, over and over. The most he will say is the feel of the clothes (they must be skin tight). He doesn’t care if they are clean or not. Actually he wants me to wash them everyday, but if I don’t he wears them anyways. When I say a matter of life or death, I am not making it up, it seems THAT serious to him, he panics at the thought of not wearing his favorite. Once I threw them in the washer so they were wet. I thought that would stop him, NO – he pulled them out and wore them wet. I will never do that again. I also let him pick out all his own clothes and he seems to love the things when we buy them, then absolutely refuses to wear them.
He, again life or death, has to be dressed a certain way for certain activities. Don’t laugh – cowboy hats must be worn to Chinese restaurants, camo’s must be worn when playing outside, on and on. We don’t leave the house without the “proper” hat and footwear.
Ofcourse, there is the way things must be lined up and appear in his room. Everything MUST be all lined up on the very edge of his dresser or desk, etc. He used to do this all over the house, but I finally was able to channel it to just a couple of rooms. In the bathroom, all the bottles and jars must be lined up in some strange manner that only makes sense to him.
Thanks, I so appreciate your input.
Sky ~ I had heard about this letter, but this was the first time I read it. UNREAL – what else can I say.
I’ll tell you what, my P/daughter all over again. She writes things like this all the time. She thinks she is a gifted writer. Her profile on a dating web site says she manages a local band (NOT) and writes songs for them (NOT)
I am going to look up some of these and post one or two on here to get people’s opinions. I have shown them to 3 of Grand’s therapists, a psychologist and our attorney who was studying for a degree in forensic psychology. They ALL had exactly the same reaction “Do you know your daughter is very sick” DUH
Milo,
I am getting off after this message. It’s time to clean the house. Grand sounds like an interesting person, not boring at all! I like him already!!!! 🙂 The feeling of the clothes was my first guess, but I wasn’t sure what about the feeling he was obsessing over. I have a weird thing about water. I cannot swim in a natural body of water, because it feels too wet to me. Pools are okay, because they don’t feel as wet. I also cannot handle being unable to see my feet. If I am in a lake or ocean for some strange reason (rarely happens), I will lift my feet up out of the water the whole time so that I can always see them. When I was a kid during the super hot summers in southern California, I’d get too hot to sleep with a blanket, so I’d wrap it around my feet, because I couldn’t have them exposed while I was sleeping and my eyes were closed. I need to always be able to keep an eye on them. Also, in any public areas, I MUST sit facing the door with the fewest number of people behind me as possible. I’ve also never attended a party of any sort without ending up either in a closet or up a tree. I hate being around lots of people. I remember the first college party I went to, I was in the coat closet on the floor hiding behind the coats in a corner within 10 minutes of arriving. I was very pleased with that location. At the last party I ever went to, I was dragged by some peers of mine. They begged and begged, so finally I caved in. Bad idea. Again, within a few minutes, I had checked the whole house for a closet. Nothing was sufficient, so I went in the backyard and climbed all the way up a tree. From up there, I watched the party for about an hour. I saw my friends through the window. They were going all over the house looking for me, but there was just NO WAY I was gonna go back in there. Everyone was wearing ball gowns and suits, and it freaked me out. There is a book called All Cats Have Aspergers, and I think that title just hits the nail on the head! I even climb trees to escape!!! I get very, very nervous in those sorts of situations, because people start introducing themselves, and I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what all these formalities are. I start obsessing over my posture, my breathing, my voice, my word choice. I don’t understand the conversation topics or how I am supposed to respond to questions, jokes, statements, etc. Should I laugh? Should I ask questions? Should I just nod to show I am actively listening? I feel like I am doing it all wrong. Then if I just be myself, I feel burning eyes on me, like I must have not followed the routine correctly. I get totally convinced that all the people were trained at some “socializing” school on what to do, they all read the same books, but I didn’t read those books. It’s painfully awkward to the point that I just want to cry from frustration. In order for me to attend a party, it would either have to have only one person at it, or I’d have to receive a list of rules and routines that all guests would be following at all times so that I would know in advance what I’m supposed to do. It’s strange because people seem to like me, but I cannot figure out WHY half the time. When someone says, “Hey, come out with us. We’re going to xxx place!” I think, “Me? Seriously? But I have no idea what to DO at xxx place and I always say or do something unusual!!!” So I never go out with other people. Well, I have been trying so hard to, but I don’t like to be around them. All the input makes me crazy and I feel overwhelmed with input and sensory information. It feels like the whole room is either spinning or hanging like a balloon in the air about to drop.
You told me not to laugh…but a cowboy hat at a Chinese restaurant? That is just AWESOME! He is such a character!!!! 🙂 He sounds like my kinda company!
Panther -THANK YOU SO MUCH ~ I am not trying to pry and I so appreciate what you have to say. If I can hear from an adult that can put the words to the feelings I think I can help Grand so much more.
We don’t make a big deal out of the clothes, pick your battles and there are more important things. The cowboy hat, Chinese restaurant is funny and it is so important for me to have a sense of humor over this. The really funny part is if you question – cowboy hat, Chinese restaurant???, he looks at you as if you have two heads, like, anyone would know the answer to that one.
I did manage to make the coon skin cap disappear, that was more than a little embarassing. So was the concert at the school where he was REQUIRED by the school to wear dress pants and a button down shirt. He did finally wear them, but also a post-it note that said “I look stupid” stuck to his forehead. He is a character!!!!
Milo,
I think that sounds like OCD, and as long as it isn’t hurting anything, I say just go along with it….
Have you watched the Temple grandin movie yet? I think that movie is GREAT and explains so much about the point of view of the person with autism. Temple is BRILLIANT but she sees things as PICTURES rather than any other way that we might. She sees a “picture” of a page and then reads the words off that page after just a glance at the page….
I highly recommend that movie to you and anyone else interested in any of the autistic spectrum as well as Baron-Cohen’s books.
Now, I haven’t got the tattoo which will say “DNR” over my left breast…I have to buy the tattoo gun and ink (so I know it is new and sterile) and then go to a tattoo parlor and get a professional to do it.
Had a grand time at the auction and got son D a $300 shearling coat, brand new for PENNIES!!!! That’s his Christmas present!
I had taught him to knit a while back as he wanted to learn another “traditional” skill for our living history group and several of the men knit so for my BD he knitted me the CUTEST stocking cap decorated with yarn flowers he made. I LOVE HATS and with hats coming back into fashion now I am the “hat lady!” (in addition to my pheasant tail “donkey riding” hat!) Son D won’t let me wear the pheasant hat during turkey season as he’s afraid someone would think I was a turkey and shoot me! LOL
If you really want a good laugh, read all the comments on the blog page under the letter. Some of them will have you rolling. I especially love the one where the poster comments on the guy’s grammar.
Years ago, I knew a woman like this. I met and befriended her at a meetup group of some sort. She told me she was autistic, but I didn’t really understand what that meant. I used to work with autistic kids in an institutional setting, and I thought at the time that all autistic people had self stimulating behaviors and were low functioning. After we started hanging out, I saw the odd behaviors. For instance, I told her my boyfriend and I were going to the Caribbean. She asked if she could come with us. She had no concept of how awkward a question that was. Even though she was attractive, she scared men away after the first date. I didn’t understand why. I thought maybe she was just needy. I happened to know a guy who was also needy, so I set them up. He called her and got her voice mail. She called him back – 15 TIMES! And left 15 messages! Needless to say, that was the end of that. I eventually broke the friendship with her.
Years later after I moved, she looked me up and called. I had a brief, pleasant, and guarded conversation with her. The next day I returned from work, and there were 12 voice mails from her wondering where I was and why I didn’t return her calls (!). I called her back and told her that if she contacted me again, I would call the police. And that was the end of that. I realize now that this is asbergers. Funny, she also loved classical music too.
However, not all stalker types I’ve known were asbergers. I remember once meeting up with a guy from a dating site (about 5 years ago). I suggested we meet up at a garden sale my friend was having. She has a lot of cats and opens her home to people to come in and play with the cats. So we met in one of the cat rooms. He “cornered” me into an intense conversation, when really all I wanted to do was enjoy the cats and flowers. Then he invited me to lunch, which I declined because I wanted to hang out at the sale. I returned home to a long email telling me all my “issues” because I didn’t want to go to lunch with him or engage him in an intense conversation on our first (and last) meet. I don’t know why I even engaged him, but I made the mistake of replying, and it went on and on until I finally stopped it.
Oxy ~ I’ll ask Grand to come up with some hats for you to try, I just now suggested a hat for him to put on to clean the barn and he yelled at me “THAT IS NOT A BARN CLEANING HAT.” Ok, then.
I haven’t seen the movie about Temple Grandin yet, it is on my to do list. I did see her in person awhile back. Our state is trying to become a “user friendly agriculuture state”, help the public understand that not all farmers are “killing machines”. She spoke, she is amazing, her instincts on how the animals actually react and why.
The OCD – recently there has been research done on how the characteristics of OCD in people with Autism differ from people with OCD. Somewhere around here I have the information, I will dig it out. Grand fits into the Autism related OCD to a T, but the regular OCD, not so much.
Love your tatoo idea
Panther,
I know you said you were leaving but I just wanted to comment that I used to feel that same way about social situations, when I was a kid. I just wanted to melt into the furniture because I had no idea what people wanted.
At some point I realized that EVERYBODY is feeling that way. It doesn’t seem like it because they are using mechanisms to overcome it. They are talking and asking questions and pretending to be interested to overcome the same social anxiety. Granted, it’s on a spectrum, some have it more than others and if it’s a spath well… my spath brother told me, “when I meet someone, I HAVE to DOMINATE them. If I don’t, then I can’t even be there with them. I HAVE to dominate.”
My solution, once I realized that everyone was trying to feel more comfortable, was to facilitate that. I took the focus off myself and focused on how other individuals were feeling. Reacting to them in anyway that would make them feel more comfortable. Its become second nature now. I think that’s why people come up to me and tell me personal details within minutes of meeting them.
This is really off this topic, but I mentioned to Sky (above) that I was going to find a sample of my daughter’s writing and post it. It had almost forgot about this one. I would love people’s reaction.
Note: this was written 4 years ago, by now she had dropped out of school, married at age 19, while married she was engaged to someone else and then had a child by yet another man who spent the first 8 years of her child’s life in prison.
Her criminal record by now included felony theft & felony warrant, domestic violence, assault and battery, drug charges, 2 DUI’s both with accidents, falsification of evidence, probation violation and countless warrants and minor violations.
She has no job, sells drugs, had been under investigation by 3 different DCF’s in 2 states and 3 counties. She was charged with child endangering and her child had been removed on 2 different times.
At the time this was written her child had been in the custody of the grandparents (us) for over 2 1/2 years and by her choice she has had no contact with him for over 2 years.
This was a myspace blog – Here it is:
“I recently saw a straight-to-DVD movie “Idiocracy”, and for those of you who haven’t been hip enough to find it, you probably are someone who needs to see it.
In a nutshell and without using thumbs, luke wilson is an average guy frozen too long .. 500 years, and awakes to a world of stupid people. The President is a pro wrestler, buildings are secured in a backyard mechanic’s was (duct tape and baleing twine). He is the smartest man alive. Mike Judge wrote it so it’s better to watch after toking up I’m sure, but the story got me thinking.
Stupid people are mating at an alarming rate. The educated and more stable couples pour millions into fertility clinics and reduce they’re sexual activity to a scheduled chore according to ovulations and sperm counts. That is if they decide that they can fit a child into their busy doctor or lawyer or banker’s busy schedules.
Meanwhile, those with no work ethic, morals, education, generally people contributing nothing to society, only sucking up tax dollars, have no trouble pushing out 6 kids. More money from the state that way, eh?
I was not by any means in a financial or stable place when I had my son, and I am not saying that you should be in an idealistic situation to reproduce. I am educated. I can form a sentence, and even understand three-syllable words. I have the tools to teach my son right from wrong, and give guidence based on compassion and intelligence. Most of the people I know are a little hard up for cash, but can be rational…..work, prioritize their children’s needs above they’re own. I am sure none of them will be popping out 6 kids though either.
What are the odds in 500 years that the IQ of the country wil be staggeringly low? I think very good. Scary that those pitiful and neglected….ignorant and unstable…..kids will only become tools of destruction themselves when their reporductive parts are ready to spawn themselves.
Here’s my solution….give everyone IQ tests (bribe them with a colt 45, or a doobie…pixie stix, whatever). If they score anywhere around a baboon or leaf, perform the proper nuetering right then and there. Then pack them on a train heading to texas, (it’s got a lot of room).
Lets designate one state who has already shown it’s brillance with our clever president to the aimless idiots where they can do nothing together without interfering with those of us who use our brain, exhausing our tax money and patience. I would like to name it something clever like nescience, (they can’t get offended if they don’t understand the word) In a hundred years, the ignorance could be extinct.
Our children can learn in an environment that is safer and advanced, and I can go to the grocery store check-out without the urge to run anyone over with my car, or kidnap kids to take them to social services.”
*spelling errors are writers