By | December 9, 2010 194 Comments

It sometimes pays to act like a psychopath … sometimes not

Editor’s note: Be sure to read both articles that Ox Drover links to.

By Ox Drover

I ran across two articles in NY Times that sort of got me to thinking about how it sometimes does pay off to act like a psychopath—in business or other ways.

The following  (quite long) article tells how an Internet seller terrorized his customer.  I think that many people who have been the victims of psychopathic-like stalking can relate to this woman’s story. The fact that it was over such a relatively small amount of money is amazing to me, though. The lengths to which this stalker pursued his victim are also amazing to me.

Read A bully finds a pulpit on the web on

This follow up article tells how, eventually, through the persistence of the victim in pursuing justice for the bullying psychopathic-like stalking she got from the abuser, it turned out that the man didn’t get away with his campaign, and now local, state and federal authorities are getting on the band wagon to go after this guy.

Read U.S. arrests online seller who scared customers on

The guy even got denied bail. Yea for that judge “getting it.”  It will be interesting to me to see how this plays out and just how much real jail/prison time this guy actually gets. While I can’t diagnose someone out of the newspaper, I really do feel that this man fits the criteria for many of the traits of a psychopath and he definitely is a stalker.

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Thank YOU for this article. It’s not a dooffus guy trying to gain advantage in search engines. It’s a life pattern of an spath who takes shortcuts and demonstrates his contempt for society rules.

Shows the thinking process of an spath (his interview was bizarrely entertaining, just like Manson’s was) and more importantly, this shows what our response should be. DOCUMENT. DOCUMENT. DOCUMENT. The FACTS do matter.


I have been taking your advice and reading the articles on the side. Well written by all who contributed, from what I was looking at. I read about this guy on another article.

I keep seeing happy Birthday wishes for you so HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Personal question OXY: I read some things about your son. Has he ever tried to reach out to you on a personal level? He sounds like he’s pretty much screwed for life, but has he ever tried to reach out to you? And if yes did you believe him?


The facts are what played into my success in court…..both times. Documenting everything…..and still continue, for potential IRS issues.
I also exploited the sociopath with his own game……played the backspath. He discounted me…..thought he was superior in the ‘game’. Hmmmmmm.
The difference is…..I KNOW when i’m doing it….and I can choose to pack back up my ‘inner sociopath’, use it for ‘special occasions’.
The nice part about it is…….well…..when they get away with behaviors time in and time out…..there has to be one dupe that will shut THAT con down….speak up, and take it the distance in the courts. And the key there is, it screws with their game…..because they just never know when they are gonna meet that feisty dupe.
Once you grab a sociopath sternly by the balls…….it cuts off a supply they need. YOU are in control on how hard and when you squeeze…..and why.

It’s a choice…..I can choose to make or walk away…….For now….I’ve chosen to keep a tight grip and Squeeze.
I have become friends with my ‘inner spath’.


As the saying goes,
“When you have them by the balls, the heart and mind will surely follow!”


Except, that, like the Tin Man in “The Wizard of Oz,” they,{the spaths} dont have a heart.


Gem –
If I recall correctly, the Tin Man did not seem to have a mind or balls either (at least I couldn’t SEE any balls and he was definitely not wearing any clothes, despite being outside int he GARDEN with the plants. He was GREY, wasn’t he? Haven’t seen that movie for a while – must get it out again soon.


I just read the newspaper articles – man if that’s not a spath then I don’t know what is….reminds me of someone I used to know actually….oh yes! that’s it, my ex-husband Brad…

creepy creepy dangerous no-good yukky bad things they are

ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ox Drover

Yea, when I read the first article, then got to searching around and found the second one and WOW!!!! Did that resonate with me. It isn’t often that a jerkface like that really “gets his” but I was glad to see that this guy DID GET WHAT HE DESERVED. (My son says Jerkface is an old fashioned term, I should use something more modern, but I like it!) LOL

The “reason” he gave for the terror campaign was so P-athy sounding I almost choked when I read it. The “I know where you live” and all the other things, including photos of the people’s buildings so he had to put some EFFORT into these threats, not just sit at home and mouth off about them, but to go out and take photos of the people’s houses.

All for a few hundred bucks????? Talk about control issues, and anger issues and power trips. It would not surprise me at all if this guy was not a rapist or there is not something VERY violent in the back ground here—BTK???? type stuff.

It totally surprised and amazed me that the judge wouldn’t let him have bail considering he had not KILLED ANYONE YET.

Yea, GEM, you are toooooo funny woman!!!!


Hi folks , I have not been on the blog in a while but ran into something that I felt might be relevant , so am going plonk it right here if thats ok .
From my own experience and my own observation the most confusing thing about being in a relationship with a psycopath was the crazies that seem to be manifested in my head . Many times I had asked myself , what did this woman do to me and how did she do it . I consider myself to be relatively normal whatever that means . One thing that I became aware of while I was with my psychopathic partner was my aparent mental shutting down . What was confusing was trying to figure out how it was being done . Anyway its been about 3 years since we split and slowly but surely the mist has cleared or is clearing . Anyway to get to the point heres the story , true story , that enlightened me to something about the human brain or at least my human brain that I did not have a good understanding of . What happened is this . I was at work talking to an east indian guy on the phone about some product he was going to buy . As we were going to ship the product to him I had to get his name and address . Well his name was one of those ones you have no idea how to spell plus he had a bit of an accent . So he is spelling out his name , B like bob , A like apple , O like umbrella ………..BAM
My whole thought processes stopped right there , it was as if my mind had hit some psychological brick wall . He continued spelling , but of course I didn’t hear a thing , my mind was totally occupied with O like umbrella . Somewhere during this few seconds another part of my thought processes was observing my own reaction . It was telling me holly crap I just got shut down . What had happened . He had said something that did not make sense . That does not compute . Later on after dealing with the call I began thinking about the whole shut down mechanism and how I had observed it happening within my own head . Of course then I got to thinking about psychopaths and there way of talking and how it can be so full of nonsense . A really smart psychopath can almost sound convincing but if ones listens really carefully a bit of nonsense is thrown in for good measure . It is this nonsense that shuts down the normal persons mind unless one is aware of it . psychopaths have many tactics that they use to shut a normal person down . Intimadation being perhaps the more obvoius way , however it is all the head games that one is bombarded with that may do the most damage as it is sometimes very hard to get a grip of what is going on . As well there is the problem of understanding the motive behind their actions as quite often for a normal person their motives make little sense as well , untill one becomes aware of the evil inside . cheers


quest – this makes perfect sense to me. i am dealing with ptsd and i see that i can have the same reaction when people pressure me and pretend not to be pressuring me.

it’s the gaslighting.

really good observation!


..and i think we have a new lf saying, ‘o like umbrella!’


Thanks for sharing that….that is GREAT food for thought!
It’s so very true, it’s the word salad…..then the sense making, and by then we are so caught up in trying to follow this conversation, we automatically justify…..because it’s not obvious psychobabble… the Elizabeth smart kidnapper singing at the top of his lungs in court….he’s obviously no one we would get into any conversation with…….or even question that it was US not ‘understanding’ or following……
They look normal, they can portray normal behaviors……but there is something not right and we skim over it trying to catch up on the details, as we dismiss the “O as in Umbrella” thinking we heard it wrong.
It’s the sort of off balance they keep us in……even on small examples that have BIG meanings.

Good catch…….and great observation!!!!

Ox Drover

Dear Quest, I agree with One and EB, “O like Umbrella” and so many times unfortunately it DOES MAKE “SENSE” to me! LOL That is the REALLY SCARY PART!!!! LOL It is only much later that I realize there ain’t no O in umbrella! Reminds me of an ugly joke that is too long to type out tonight….maybe tomorrow.

Just got back from the lecture and the dinner and it was wonderful! Had a great time!


I’m with you OXY…..I didn’t catch it the first time…..until explained!
Scary huh?

Glad you had a fantabulous B-day dinner/night…….go enjoy one last bowl of blue bunny burner ice cream and relish in your old age! 🙂
Happy Birthday Darlen!!!!!

Ox Drover

Thanks EB!!! Yea, Blue Bunny BURNER ice cream! I even had some really great brandy too! Yea, dinner had too much salt in it, but don’t do that often so will just take a little extra “water pill” and drink lots of water to flush it out—actually can’t eat “out” and have low sodium meal I guess. Was a fancy-dancy place and I’ve only eaten there a couple of times before! Got to see some folks I hadn’t seen in a long time either at the lecture. I used to be the director of student health at one of the Unies and so knew some profs there that I got to see tonight. Small group (about 20 people was all) but just a great evening!

Need to get out and take advantage of more of these, they are free and very available and very entertaining as well as learn things.

I’m slow to catch on to some of these things now, literally my brain doesn’t work the same way it did before the aircraft crash, plus the continual stress from my dad’s death right after that, and all the other psychopathic chaos for the next 3 years after that.


wow, it slipped by me too!
O like in umbrella.
What is the meaning? why did he say that, was he a p?
why didn’t I get it? is it like the dancing bear?
thanks Quest, that was really a good insight.

I have so much stuff I want to post that happened today, not sure if I have time. I have discovered a new RED FLAG. gotta share it.

Ox Drover

I can’t get the “sitting with a psychopath” thread to open up….it only partly opens then says “done” down in the lower left corner of my screen. Every other one, even the longer threads open up, but not that one. UGHHHHHH!!!!!!

Glad you are around skylar! But it is 1:20 here and I think I am gonna go to bed. My BD celebration was fun and I ate too much but that’s okay on your BD so I’m not beating myself up over it!

See you guys on the flip side!


Hi Skylar,
He was no psychopath , as far as I could tell , he was just an east indian that didn’t know the english language well enough to know that umbrella is not spelt ombrella . It was just a simple mistake that shut me down for a few seconds . Now imagine a psychopath that figured out how to take advantage of this little quirk and use it as a manipulation tool . My X had so many tricks up her sleave I could hardly keep track . The scary part is the shut down . When normal people have been shut down , I think it leaves the door open for all kinds of mind suggestion stuff perhaps the same as what a hypnotist is able to do . Funnily enough lying is something that also tends to shut me down if I know the person is lying . It happened to me at work a couple of times when someone who was above me , told a bold faced lie . We were in a bit of an argument in a meeting and out came the lie . That was the end of the argument because I could not react logically to the lie because it wasn’t true . I had no senerio for something that was not real. Later on I went to the sales manager and told him of the lie . He hadn’t even noticed it until I explained it to him .


wow quest, what an insight. I wonder how that mechanism works exactly, but I can see where you’re getting at. Like X is Y and Up is down, down is up.. well by God, you’re Alice and you seem to have already slipped down the rabbit hole.. really interesting, wonder what implications that has.. perhaps that is what the FOG is about. Maneuvering like a blind infant, crawling on all fours, not knowing where the next blow is going to come from. WOW. Thanks for sharing that. the hypnotist analogy is interesting as well.


Or perhaps you’re so disoriented, so off balance, that you simply feel that your mind just won’t do ( SHUT DOWN ). Your mind can’t process this so, perhaps your thinking is faulty, the suggestion being that, your brain can’t process things, comes down to : there’s something wrong with you, and thus you must not rely on your own logic, since obviously it can’t grasp the word salad being bludgeoned at you. ( this is just a dirty/quick processing of all of this. ) And i would also surmise that all of this is unconscious as well. I don’t know why that resonated with me so much… about your friend saying O as in Umbrella instigating a mental shut down. I think you’re onto something. Your reality as you know it is being warped. You did not see what you did see. You did not know what you did know. Your understanding is not your understanding. This is why the FOG thus ensues. Great, great insight. Lol i’m so over the place. But thanks.


Quest – would you want to expand on this a bit, and send it to Donna as an article? I think you have really hit on something that is important, and I would like to see it reach more people on lovefraud.

I have often heard that our brains have a function that shuts down our cognitive ability to compute if they are overwhelmed; this if often used to describe why adults sometimes have no memory of abuse as children.

But recognizing it as an adult dupe/ vic of a s/p/n and as a person with PTSD in the aftermath has important implications for our understanding of what happened/ happens to us.

i have developed multiple chemical sensitivities during the time of the spath. I also had many exposures to chemicals during that time, and precedent had been set with my body’s ability to cope from exposures in the months before the spath. I have some very specific reactions to different chemicals now – i know it’s bad if my skin instantly flushes and burns, my face goes numb, the inside of my nose goes numb, i completely lose focus, i lose any clarity of thought, i want to vomit….i’ll spare you the rest ’cause the details are not the point. The point is: the other day someone put big pressure on me in a most coercive way when i was already under a lot of pressure, and i had close to a full blown response of the kind i have to chemicals. The only difference was that i could get my thinking back on track once i settled down – with chemicals this is not the case.

So, I’d say: our brain responds to lies and gas-lighting as noxious organic compounds!(which i think merits some discussion from a energetic and spiritual perspectives) Or rather, lies bring on a huge stress response in our bodies, and our brains/ spirits KNOW THEM WHEN THEY HEAR THEM!


How true the above posts are.

Brain gets fried, can’t think.

Since he’s been out of my life my brain is switched on again.

He used to have the tv on all the time (input) and I had no peace, no time to think. It’s hard to explain but it was like he did not want me to have space to think cos if I had I would have figured him out.

He was filling my mind with such rubbish and I was trying to figure out what he was up to all the time……..left no room for me to think.

Now I’m back to doing the things I want to do, think, plan, action. Don’t have to worry about what he would think/say.

How did it get to that point? Like everyone on here I thought he loved me. What he actually wanted was my lifestyle, friends, money, place to stay (for free) etc

Their rubbish chatter and lies fills our heads and the fog creeps in gradually.

Today I have been up town with my daughter, had a brill time doing girlie things. Not accountable to anyone but myself.

ps I posted something on here about domestic violence to someone but couldn’t find the site again! So if you are there I hope things are going ok and that you are safe x


This is REALLY interesting.
Now I know why they begin relationshits by lying and lying and lying.
I used to think it was a test to see how much shit you’ll put up with but now I realize, it’s just to scramble our brains. The Lie is the key.
That’s why they’re called the people of the lie.
Thanks so much quest. You’ve opened a lot of eyes this morning.


sky – how conscious are they of what they do ”“ do they consciously know they are scrambling brains? Are they just testing how much they can get away with? Is the former just the pathway to the latter?

Maybe it’s just that they pay attention to cause and effect; they know what works for them/ on people and they use it. I think they really LIKE to lie, it feels good to them ”“ so are they not just trying to do what they like?

In my case, I think that she gauged how much i would put up with in the beginning and then fine tuned the character to best exploit my areas of vulnerability. My very first conversation with ‘him’, he was inappropriate – and goofball over here, so stupid in her compassion, let it slide.

I think the scrambling started later ”“ once I was hooked through the drama, care and fear for ’him’. There was a huge override of my usual thought processes through drama, manipulation and tauma ”“ the betrayal bond.

There is a question about dissonance that is coming up for me as i write this ”“ why do some people (I am one) have such a hard time reconciling BS and truth? In part, because of what quest has noted, but I think there is something else”

I haven’t been as clear as I had hoped in this post. I have ended up with more questions than answers”I need to process more.


My spath used to say ‘it’s only a lie if you get found out’

Is that so?

In my book a lie is a lie is a lie.

There has been a lot of references to hens on here.
How about this it’s a story from one of the books I read as a child…..

The hen (us) is on her perch in the hen house and Mr Fox (spath) runs round and round underneath her perch until she gets dizzy and falls off (sounding familiar?)

Ox Drover

Great thinking and logic and insight guys, I think there is a name for it but I forget! LOL CRS CARP!!!!! That makes me mad when I can’t remember, I guess it is because I am a year older today! LOL

First, welcome Candy! I like the “it is only a lie of you get found out” that was very creative of him!!!! He gets A for effort on that one.

Yes, I remember the story of Mr. Fox going under the p erch and making Mrs. Hen fall off. There are many of Grimm’s stories that are the LOVEFRAUD analogies.


re grimm’s tales – they exist because of the breadth of people who walk the earth…we always need stories, be it the bible or grimm’s, to process, qualify, integrate and understand our and others place in the world.

if evil did not exist, we would not have needed the bible.


ox and candy,
i have read that here many times, ‘ it’s only a lie if i get caught’. ….and sometimes not even then!

oxy – i know you can’t watch this, but you might want to check it out candy – spath exposed and the lies continue:


Happy birthday for yesterday Ox. Still 18 on the inside!

Yep, he was creative alright!

I just clicked on msn (he can’t see me cos he’s blocked but I can see him) and he’s there checking out his next victim whilst living with another woman!

How I wish I could warn them – however, if I did he would probably make his way back here (nowhere else to go) so I’m afraid I will take the (not so) easy option and do nothing to put myself in danger.

One Step – checked out the video – funny how they go quiet when they’re rumbled.


..and how she denied….until she quibbled with the timelines of the con…THE most important thing!

Ox Drover

Dear Candy, thanks, yep that’s me, 18 on the inside!

You say you are checking him out but he can’t see you….is there a reason you are checking him out besides just curious? Is that a sort of “contact”? Just a thought but you might want to just quit following his activities unless it is a legal or safety issue (and then kept it to a minimum) sometimes any contact, even back door knowledge like this can slow our healing down as it still rents them rooms inside our heads.

I agree, warning them is probably dangerous to you, and most likely a waste of time as well as he will have warned them what a nut job you are and how you stalk him and get this—want him back!!! LOL


Well its just after noon here so have been reading all the reactions . I’m glad others are making sense of what I have experienced . The next trick is to see how valid the realization will be in the future . Sometimes I have found that the realisation of something is all thats required to overcome it , however in other instances it appears to be not quite that simple or else perhaps it is only a partial realisation and that there is more to come . The problem with a psychopath for most people is that the psychopath has been perfecting their strategy for years . And believe me what they do is all done on purpose and in a premeditated manner . Initially when I was with my X , I at one time thought that all the confusion was just her and was not done on purpose . I have even read in books by qualified people that psychopaths are confused and have a poor grip of reality . To me this is all a pretense . They know exactly what they are doing and are very aware of what the outcome will probably be . In fact they will twist and turn untill they get their desired outcome . What doesn’t make sense to most people is why someone would want such an out come whatever it may be . If you love someone why would you want to shut them down . For a normal person if you love someone you would want to see them bloom to whatever level they desired , not the reverse . My own theory is that the inner loving soul of a psychopath does not exist and thus they feel somewhat incomplete . They seem to be void in a bunch of other areas as well . There sexual orientation seems also to be a little fuzzy as well . Its as if there is no sexual orientation . neither heterosexual or homosexual , figure that out . Somewhere in their being is one hell of a frustrated entity wondering why they are not , well complete . Their frustration manifests itself in all the things they do against the rest of humanity . Allmost as if they find it sinfull that other people are leading happy joyfull lives . How dare they be so happy when I feel nothing . One other thing that i find interesting is the belief that they often have superior inteligence . I used to believe this as well but now I am not so sure . Cunning , yes , manipulative , yes . Inteligent NO . The power for normal people is in realising what they are , then they have no legs to stand on . Suddenly all the phony aspects of the psychopath that bewilder , facinate , attrack and mesmerise most normal people for a while are just that , phony . They can only continue this charade for a while then they crash . Just make sure you are not around when that happens , as you will probably get sucked into the void with them . Don’t get me started

super chic

quest, I am glad you are writing about this, we all learn from each other, I really believe everything they do is premeditated, just like you said. They have learned how to manipulate people (when the xspath kept stopping by here… and I reacted differently… he said “I can’t figure out how to get to you anymore”). So you are right… my power is in realizing what he is. I’m keeping my guard up for any others!


quest, i agree with you absolutely. It’s so infuriating when “professionals” who claim to know what they talking about, would very easily imply that it is not the fault of the spath, “they don’t know any better”… Uh, yes they do! It’s not like they’re blind, stomping all over every which way and not knowing what they’re hitting. Their lies are deliberate and methodical, they are cold blooded manipulators and yes, NOT intelligent because once you find their bag of tricks, you see the mask they’re wearing quite clearly and it’s OBVIOUS. It is ABSOLUTELY premeditated, ABSOLUTELY on purpose. Thanks for sharing your insights, they really hit me hard.

Ox Drover

Dear Quest,

Those musings, ruminations etc. are good thinking, actually, and I think we must go over those things in our minds in a quiet atmosphere and in a way that we have time to contemplate the meaning of our thoughts.

It takes quiet. Time. Solitude. Peace. Calm.

When our internal dialogs are going 90-to-nothing there is not time, quit, solitude or peace or calm in which to get a good grip on the philosophy of what is going on inside and outside us or them. The CHAOS prevents it.

I think in many ways, blogging here at LF gives us the time, solitude, time, peace and calm in which to go through our ideas and to go through the ideas of others and pick out the pieces we need to bandage our souls and hearts!

Ox Drover

Dear Dancing,

We posted over each other…a recent study showed that Ps IQs are just like everyone else’s and follow the bell curve…some dumb ones, some bright, and most in the middle.

The professionals who “don’t get it” are starting to be in the minority, but it is still going to take a LONG TIME before the professionals can get their “sheet together” and come to a reasonable conclusion. I think in many ways, those of us in the trenches of LIFE WITH THEM know a lot more in some aspects than they do.


Dear Ox.

Thanks for the good advice.

It is minimal (usually on a Sat cos I go to work) He’s a long way off and so long as he’s on line I know I’m ‘safe’ for a couple of hours. I live in the country where it’s pretty isolated and get scared going out in the dark.

And yes I’m sure he calls me a nut job, he told me his ex was – I chatted to her a few times and she’s a really nice person, she’s taken him back! He left her in financial ruin the last time, lost a huge sum of money, house, car and is a wreck emotionally. I feel really sorry for her because she does not know what we know about him being a spath.

I have no contact. He’s tried a few times but I’ve blocked him and I never reply.


@Oxy Yes, i was going to mention that. I know some have high IQs and what not, but I would still say they’re not intelligent because they are so blind in many ways, rendering them stupid anyway. I think it’s laughable when a P contradicts himself in the same sentence. That is one evidence of sheer stupidity to me.

The P i knew asked, “If two different families go to the same church, why do they teach their children different things at home?” ( Evidence of their “objectifying” other people ) Like IT’S FOREIGN to them that people might have MINDS of their own, different opinions. It makes me think that they believe everyone’s just a cardboard cut out… wtf. ( Btw i had to keep asking him to clarify what he meant because I thought he had asked the question incorrectly. Nope, he said the same exact thing over and over. ) Perhaps HE had a low IQ cause he couldn’t even fake his “understanding”… but yeah, I agree that they have differing IQs. Maybe i’ll just continue to call them all not intelligent because their actions reflect a real POVERTY of all things considered important. This is the same P that claimed he could get into John Hopkins University easily ( after he asked me, “What’s the best university in the world?” i said “Probably Johns Hopkins”… he didn’t even have a clue about what the school was… he just decided he’d be able to get in just because he’s who he is. )… BAHAAHAHA.


If they weren’t intelligent, psychopaths like Jack Welch
( Photograph : [Note the title of the book… Very “P” ]) wouldn’t be able to get into the positions they have ( He’s the former CEO of GE” just read about his marital history, and history with the company” it’s a doozy )

So yeah, there are fat ones, short ones, skinny ones, dumb ones, smart ones, but they’re all made of snakeskin underneath their disgustingly overmade facades

( Link to a book which talks about Jack Welch as a CEO, as well as 3 others : Called “Testosterone, INC”

From Amazon : A smarmy wallow in the sleaziest escapades of four powerful and highly visible CEOs, Byron’s latest serves up a titillating mix of snark, sanctimony and pop psychology. In his last book, the bestselling Martha, Inc., the veteran business journalist asserted that Stewart was driven by resentment toward her brutish father and her humble roots. In this new book, Byron’s analysis leads him to the loopy conclusion that his four subjects—Jack Welch, Dennis Kozlowski, Ronald Perelman and Al Dunlap—are all victims of excessive testosterone. What, Byron asks, could motivate such accomplished businessmen to jeopardize their legacies by divorcing devoted wives, siphoning corporate funds or engaging in tawdry affairs? “The answer,” he eagerly insists, “lies not in their stars but in their skivvies.” Though Byron examined some 15,000 documents and interviewed 90 people for this book, none of his four subjects would agree to an interview for this project, so there are no first-hand accounts to corroborate (or refute) his diagnosis. )


Quoting QUEST as posted above:
“The scary part is the shut down. When normal people have been shut down, I think it leaves the door open for all kinds of mind suggestion stuff perhaps the same as the hypnotist is able to do. Funnily enough lying is something that also tends to shut me down if I know the person is lying.”

This statement stuns me b/c it is so profound and so enlightening. IT is a BIG piece to my puzzled.

I had a hard time understanding how I could go from being such a success that cardiologists from all over the world would FIGHT over me to work for them… into being ridiculed for my stupidity and condemned for objecting to my abuse b/c NORMAL people judged that cheating/fraud/abuse was okay to do to ME, the wife who is so hated for who she is that she must deserve it.

This LOGICAL statement explains how I was conditioned, by little lies at first that threw me off balance b/c they just did not make sense, nonsense b/c of the lie and b/c I couldn’t understand WHY the lie! When I asked him, his explanations always made sense, that I must have misunderstood his words, or he misunderstood mine… or he just had a bad day and was inappropriate and sorry for what he said… or someone else lied, etc. etc. I learned to go to him and that HE would make sense of the nonsense. I learned to STOP using my own judgement.

Then came bigger lies, bigger assaults on my dignity, but NOT coming from my husband. They came from HIS supportors. And again, he’d go “Talk and straighten them out”, yet after his talk with them, they still put off hostile vibs and I couldn’t understand why. They were good people and I was innocent and my wonderful husband said he fixed what was wrong.

Things got worse. I had turned into a basketcase. Crying. So so sick. Zero energy. Barely surviving. At one point, I caught myself begging him, “PLEASE lie to me, just one more time. Please tell me the lie. I NEED it.” And he was so solicitious and kind and spoke to me gently and held me and made it all better so that I could stop sobbing, and sleep without the nightmares that kept me in such a state of anxiety that I fought to stay awake and insomnia set in.

Now I understand.
1) The trauma. The shock of trauma. “I can’t believe it.”
2) Brain shut down. NO logic. NO reasoning. NO processing.
3) He sweeps in with an explanation (the lie which would make sense b/c it would have a GRAIN of TRUTH.)
4) The acceptance. ANd my body would relax. I would feel peace and calm.
5) The consequence: Stockholm Syndrome. He put me in a state of high drama trauma. Then he kindly rescued me, with a lie that became my new reality.

The problem: after a while, that new reality didn’t make sense. The logic was off. My world was NOT REAL and that is CRAZY MAKING.

Thus the story of how Katy the successful dynamic problem solving high functioning life saver turned into the crazy pathetic loser wife.

Now THAT is wonderful to discover. B/c from that I can review the lies ( wrote them down b/c I THOUGHT, I FEARED I was getting Alzeimers and I thought I was missing whole conversations or having conversations in my dreams that I thought happened when I was awake. My husband convinced me that I was just dreaming some of the assaults, that they were just part of my nightmares.). NOW I can realize the truths, and strategize to avoid such mindfarking games from being done to me ever again, and even more, I can explain them to someone else so they can see HOW my husband is manipulating them by triggering a protective biological function of their brain.


IQ urrrrrrrrrrm. I too thought my spath had a high IQ but it turns out that it was just a front.

He had knowledge of what I would call trivia questions ie longest river, tallest mountain etc and seemed really bright at first.

But when it came down to it he had no idea about basic things eg he was a chef but did not know how to make pastry.

He said he’d done building work, he built some steps but they fell down the same day!

His driving was very poor yet he claimed he’d driven heavy goods. He literally tried to force other drivers off the road – like they had no right to be there.

His so-ordination was poor, fell over things if they were under foot.

So I have come to the conclusion he did not have a high IQ infact probably the opposite.

There is a famous saying ‘if you look onto glass, on it may stay your eye, but if you care to through it pass you may what’s there espy’.

I think this is true of spaths. When you look at the surface you only see that – the surface. But if you look beyond you get to see the shallow person, the trickster, con man, liar for what they really are.

They would like us to think that they are smarter than us, but hey, we have wised up and see them for what they are – hollow.


candy you make a good point. 99.9% of P’s will claim they’re the “smartest person in the world” hell, they’ll even have the “FAKE credentials” to “PROVE” it! How do we know whether their supposed “intelligence” is a fragile facade not unlike a stack of cards, quick to fall over if you just give it a little “tap”. Intelligent or not, all they’ll ever do is apply their thoughts to tearing someone down, a business down, a family down, a community down- and fulfilling their selfish desires… need I continue? Maybe some are just better at bullshitting and word salad that they’ll cruise through life less often detected than their fellow P’s who’ll just attack their targets on whim, without time to conjure up a believable story or alibi.


Watch out for the ones like my exP. Claimed he could barely read and write. Well, in truth, it wasn’t his forte, but he exaggerated it.
It was an interesting ploy he came up with. His genious mechanical skills and guitar playing and his ability to design with CAD and helicopter pilotingskills were used to impress people, but he made sure they knew that he had hard luck because of his poor reading and writing skills and lack of education. So no one expected him to get his pilots license or AP mechanics license or anything else that would make his work legal.
This creates a dichotomy, where you want to help him because he’s so worthy of being helped but he can’t possibly be expected to do things legally, so breaking the law, just a little bit – this one time – is justified.
blah, blah, blah… you see where this is going.


Dancingnamcies – The hard luck story is true. He gave me all the stuff about not being loved by his mother, not doing well at school, sexual abuse, you name it. So yes I felt sorry for him, wanted to make it ‘right’.

The ‘feel sorry for him plea’ is a way to get into good decent peoples hearts and minds. Like I said before it’s just a con, a trick to get us hooked.

Skylar – breaking the law. Yep that too. If he couldn’t do it legally, he did it illegally! But he hasn’t been that clever, cos he’s been caught in the past.


This seems like a good place to post a curious story (if anyone wants to play sociopathic whack-a-mole)

Take a look at the language used in the screen prints of the profile.

Thoughts? Am I seeing them everywhere or did this raise anyones elses hackles?


No Harold……they seem to BE everywhere!

I’d rather see em and run, than give the benefit of doubt and get screwed!

This guy is repulsive!
Sad thing is……there are women reading his profile giggling at what they percieve to be his ‘humor’……not thinking for a minute he’s REALLY like that!


“O for umbrella”.
quest, in that little phrase you’ve given me a way to understand SO many things that my XSP did to me.

On the IQ point brot up earlier, I KNOW that J has an incredibly high IQ. The man is an actual genius. He had the correct answer for everything from “why is there air” to “what happened in the Crimean war” to “why did you make a separate hotel res for 2 when the company always makes the travel arrangements.”

So, no matter what kind of “O for umbrella” thing he said to me, I’d immediately stop whatever questioning/puzzling that was going thru my mind. I was just like, “oh. okay. now i understand.” ……like it doesn’t make sense to me that you can’t fly home from Oaxaca tomorrow becuz the open-date fixed-fare return ticket you have has suddenly leaped in price to $1000, but if you go thru Pto Vallarta, you can fly home 3 days later for $100 (including the fare from Oax to PV.) “Oh. Okay. Now I understand. Well, I hate it cuz I miss you & thot you’d be home tomorrow, but, of course you don’t want to have to pay $900 extra, even if it takes a few more days. Oh. Okay.”

Looking back on it all now, I’ve wondered how I could’ve been so stupid. After all, he did finally tell me “if you’d been paying attention, you’d’ve noticed what’s been going on for 4 yrs.”

It wasn’t inattention or stupidity. It wasn’t that I didn’t question things. It was BRAIN FREEZE. What a skill to be able to completely flummox someone that way.

Simply amazing. “When are you coming home?” I asked. And he answered, “O for umbrella.”

Ox Drover

HAROLD!!!! Great!!! And yes, it is a PERFECT PSYCHOPATHIC PROFILE~! Look at all the “risky” stuff he talks about and how “EXCITING” all that would be to someone who was also a risk taker or enjoyed “high adventure” but was naive…

While 1-4% of the general population may be psychopathic, there are definitely MANY MORE % that are HIGH IN THE TRAITS that make up psychopathy, narcissism, and other personality disorder, addictions, and just general crazy and disordered. Doesn’t mean the other 99 to 96% are ALL NICE FOLKS, just that there is a percentage of people who are VERY DANGEROUS.


Assange might well be a textbook narcissist, but what about Anna Ardin (or Benardin?) I think she’s about as tweaky as he is!

I liked this tongue-in-cheek letter to Interpol from Naomi Wolf.

“Dear Interpol:
As a longtime feminist activist, I have been overjoyed to discover your new commitment to engaging in global manhunts to arrest and prosecute men who behave like narcissistic jerks to women they are dating.”

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