Editor’s note: Be sure to read both articles that Ox Drover links to.
By Ox Drover
I ran across two articles in NY Times that sort of got me to thinking about how it sometimes does pay off to act like a psychopath—in business or other ways.
The following (quite long) article tells how an Internet seller terrorized his customer. I think that many people who have been the victims of psychopathic-like stalking can relate to this woman’s story. The fact that it was over such a relatively small amount of money is amazing to me, though. The lengths to which this stalker pursued his victim are also amazing to me.
Read A bully finds a pulpit on the web on NewYorkTimes.com.
This follow up article tells how, eventually, through the persistence of the victim in pursuing justice for the bullying psychopathic-like stalking she got from the abuser, it turned out that the man didn’t get away with his campaign, and now local, state and federal authorities are getting on the band wagon to go after this guy.
Read U.S. arrests online seller who scared customers on NewYorkTimes.com.
The guy even got denied bail. Yea for that judge “getting it.” It will be interesting to me to see how this plays out and just how much real jail/prison time this guy actually gets. While I can’t diagnose someone out of the newspaper, I really do feel that this man fits the criteria for many of the traits of a psychopath and he definitely is a stalker.
Ox Drover you are funny!
I have moved forward faster from this setback than I thought. I am planning Christmas and that is so unlike me to plan anything when I’ve been driven in the ditch.
Dear Jeannie,
SEE!!! Didn’t I tell you you were getting stronger!!! SEEEEE!!! I told you so!!!! hee hee
Glad that you are rebounding from this mess, and that you are doing some happy things! My entire “decorating” was hanging a wreath on the door and making some “token” gifts for a few people.
I ground corn meal for several of D’s friends (mostly adult couples) that are co-leaders in his Venture Scout group and made up a really cute “attachment” to the sacks of meal that gave the USDA allowable amounts of rat feces and insect parts per pound of ground corn like you buy in the store, and then I wrote HOWEVER, MY ALLOWABLE RAT FECES PARTS AND INSECT PARTS ARE NONE, so every grain of this corn has been personally inspected by ME! Then I put a corn bread recipe on the paper. Son D said the people at the meeting were fighting over the papers, hang the corn meal, they wanted the papers!
I wish I had thought to make a cartoon of a rat on it with a big circle around it and a slash mark through it. LOL
I also got a few 4 ounce bottles (really cute ones) with corks and filled them with brandy or vodka and put split-open vanilla beans in and made cute labels for them. By adding more vodka or brandy as it is used, it will be vanilla extract FOREVER. That was my entire Christmas preparation and decoration and gift making.
This brings up LOTS of questions for me about sociopathy in general, but also specifically within the hellacious realms of a “intimate” (can one really call it that?) relationship with one of these people.
Lack of empathy: Now I don’t know why it took so damned long to get it through my head about the reality of their lack of empathy, but I DO see it as bright as light now, and how crucial this element is in the choices that they make to lie, manipulate, abuse, stalk, you name it. Without empathy, the ability to walk in another’s shoes explains why my now ex spath and I could have horrible arguments, could lie and “date” other women while claiming to have been out with GUY friends, and then the next day, do the whole “babe” “babe” thing to me as if it NEVER HAPPENED. It was so stark in contrast, I was bewildered by it every single time. He was also extremely pessimistic and negative about everyone, but blamed ME for that pessimism. That if it were not for me and our “unhealthy” relationship, he’d be so much happier. WTF? I even bought (for a short time) his blame of me for having been in the hospital (you bitch me out too much, and I don’t want to wind up in the hospital again) for PANCREATITIS!! THe man is a HUGE alcoholic!!!
Now that I get this lack of empathy, my next question is this: Is it a cognitive deficit within brain chemistry? Have their been studies done to prove that something is CHEMICALLY wrong with their wiring? Neurons potentially misfiring? I’m simplifying all of this, I think, but I would be very curious to read up on something about that. Is this environmental/biological or both? I have read about abusive relationships being addictive, kinda like the pavlov’s dogs theory. But again, I think that too, oversimplifies this illness.
My ex spath idealized each of his victims. His “dating” habits are now especially focused on women who have money. This SCARES me for them! One of the women that he’s been trolling had no idea about me. So I contacted her. He was just in idealization mode with her, the beginning, love bombing her all over the place. She owns her own company and has a lot of money. She is in a relationship with a man she loves dearly. I like her and we plan to keep in contact. She was shocked to have found out about me, then angry. He never mentioned it. He also did the same thing to her as he did to me in the beginning, playing the victim. And he does this role in EVERY area of his life. At home, at work, with his children. Even his obsessive love bombing techniques were NOT original LOL!!! She told him that she did not want to be more than just friends. Period. This did not stop him from continuing to try to love bomb her. He found out that I had contacted her and was pissed. He badgered me to find out what I said. I told him to speak with her about it. That I had the truth and that’s all i needed. Thank GOD for this woman. She was an angel sent. It was at this point that I had a major enlightenment and realization…..but I can’t understand why I blinded myself to him. She and I are BOTH NC and he has not bothered to call or talk to her to find out what was said. Probably because he wouldn’t know WHAT to say. So I’ve ruined his prospects for love with her. Um, YOU NEVER HAD ANY DIPWAD?
This brings me to their sense of entitlement. Does this stem from the lack of empathy? If they know what’s right and wrong, where does it go haywire?
Is the projection also part of it? It took forever for me to understand that all the things he said to me, or accused me of, he himself was actually doing. What’s the psychology of that?
I have finally come to the realization that I’m addicted to this relationship and while I’ve worked very hard this last year to extricate myself, I have backslidden only to have things get WORSE each time.
I’m making a huge list. I’ve been reading this site a bit and see how important a list can be of the things he did to me whenever I feel like “relapsing”.
I became an alcoholic while with him and I RARELY drank before I met this man. I’m sober now, but have had two relapses, ironically, WITH HIM. One of the things that is so sorrowful for me, is how I was so willing to overlook what he was doing. I didn’t truly understand the dynamics of it. It was easier to believe it was me, that I could fix it, than to believe that someone could be so evil in their heart. I think denial served me to some extent in not facing the pain of what he is. Since having talked to this woman, finding out more and the way he easily lied about her and many other women, I also discovered that one of his MO’s is his obsessive love for wine. He introduced me to it. And he was introducing her to it too. At first, it was a couple of glasses while with him, but turned into more as the years went on. THis man can start drinking at noon and drink all day. It frightened me, this alcohol problem of mine, so I stopped having him at my house for lunch, stopped seeing him and stopped alcohol altogether. I have seen him twice since stopping and both times were a huge revelation to me. NC is absolutely critical right now. I’m in the early stages again, but this time I would like to ask the questions I’ve been afraid to know the answers too. And the above are just some of them.
I feel very frightened of the answers that might underlie my reasons for having stayed too damned long, other than my denial. I keep asking myself why over and over again. At the time he landed me, I was very vulnerable, coming out of a bad marriage. He was my friend for a year prior to love bombing. NOw, he doesn’t even wait LOL!!! I wish I had seen it then. As the years have passed, the awakening has been excrutiatingly slow.
I’m awake now and ready to process more information. I think this is critical to me too. I’m getting a degree in the medical field and will graduate in June (I hope!), so the brain chemistry side to all of this is fascinating and helpful as well.
Thanks for reading!
Dear Lesson learned,
Go over on the left side of your screen where the articles are catagorized and start to read—read Dr. leedom’s articles she has lot of information there about the chemicals that point toward why the brain does what it does.
All the answers are not there yet, and it will be a while before all the chemical answers are known, but—BUT—THEY ARE NOT ROBOTS, THEY HAVE CHOICES. They are free agents who can make choices, and the choices they make are self serving. They are not bonded to others in a normal way, they have no consciences, are narcissistic and self serving. THE ARE WHAT THEY ARE.
Learn to recognize them when you encounter them. Then keep that person at arms length and don’t let them inside your circle of trust. When someone SHOWS YOU that you cannot trust them, BELIEVE THEM.
I would advise you to stay away from him and stay away from alcohol, as it is NOT a good thing to use to solve problems. You might even want to attend a few AA meeting or Alanon or read some more on addictions to help clear up your feelings about the alcohol.
Good luck, and keep on plugging away. It does get better and the longer we are NC the better off we are.
lesson learned, the post you wrote is very interesting. I feel as you do (I think you wrote it on another thread) that the truth was “revealed” to me at a time in my life when I could accept it. I was in several different types of denial for many many years, I could not bear to face my fears… but I am facing them now, and it’s not as bad as I thought it would be! Early congratulations on your medical degree!! Fabulous news! You rock!
LESSON LEARNED
when your psychopath was blaming you for what he did . its called Blame transfer . This ia a huge thing with psychopaths and it is how normal people get destroyed by psychopaths . whats going on behind your back is what you do not know about . Everyone will be looking at you as if you are the psychopath . They , the psychopath , are hidden in plain view because everyone believes them . You become the accused . It is an extemely cunning manoever and a psychopath will play it to the end , as in their victim becomes the vessel of their emptiness . At the same time they are probably mimicing your personality to the people around them and doing a hell of a job at it
lessonlearned, you might want to check out this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk
It’s about brain scans/MRI’s done on Psychopaths… by Robert Hare. I quote from this video all the time, but as to your question..
“Its quite possible that the differences we see, and this would apply to many tasks that we use in the study of psychology, it may that the differences are the primarily the response of differences in strategy. It may be very well be that they can perform the task reasonably well, but using different parts of the brain. This isn’t to say they can’t use the appropriate parts of the brain, simply that they DON’T.” – Robert Hare
So strategy implies that it is not the brain structures or lack of which CAUSE their behavior, but they use their brain differently ( For example, showing psychopaths emotive pictures, or pictures of extremely horrific/traumatic events involving humans doesn’t activate the same brain structures as normal people, but they respond to these as they would “objects” or “neutral” things… hence why they treat people like objects. This is deliberate and reinforced from childhood. So when someone says, “He treats me like i’m some object”- there is great truth in the statement. They see you as nothing more than an object, disposable as such.) . Hence the word “strategy” ( Empathy is a choice. ) they certainly possess the brain areas with which they can develop empathy, but they don’t ( And I think beyond a certain age, past childhood, that ‘strategy’ or ‘brain wiring’ is consolidated. After constant reinforcement of that wiring or use of certain structures as opposed to others. I suppose this is why some people say that you can encourage empathy in them during their very early years, although there’s no guarantee that it’ll work. ( Just as you can’t force someone to go on a diet just by telling them about how they are at greater risk for such & such diseases. Or by showing them fruits & vegetables- if they want to stuff their mouth with french fries and donuts, you bet that they will.) You can surround them in an environment which fosters empathy.. but that in itself is a theory so I can’t much expound on that one. Either way, it’s a choice. It’s a decision, just as every person they decide to prey on is calculated, and deliberate )
And ditto what Oxy said. Remember that they have choices, don’t buy into the “oh but they can’t help being the way they are” crap because it’s absolutely not true. I can help reaching for a knife and walking outside, finding a neighbor’s cat and killing it, can’t I ( sorry for the graphic analogy, I have kitties and I would never do such a thing 😛 ) ? They can help going online, lying to other people, and taking advantage of them. It’s easier to lie, that’s why they do it. Just as it’s easier to shovel Burger King and McDonald’s into my mouth than making wholesome homemade food with lots of vegetables. Just as it’s ‘easier’ for me to reach into someone’s purse when they’re not looking and grabbing money from them, unsuspectingly- than spending hours and hours at work making money myself. Just as it’s easier to lie to a woman and get sex for free than driving to Las Vegas and paying a hooker 800 dollars for 2 hours to satisfy carnal desires.
You see, most people have a “brake”- this is empathy. This is what keeps us from doing these “easy” things such as stealing, lying, cheating- we’d expend a whole less energy if we just behaved the way sociopaths did, wouldn’t we? We wouldn’t be slaving over ethics and humane societies, laws which punish unethical behavior, the EPA ( Environmental Protection Agency ), FDA, Surgeon General, WHATEVER. These things are in place to benefit people, to help people- and sometimes animals.. they aren’t necessary no, but it’s part of our human identity. It is more important to us to forego “easiness” to be MORAL and ethical, humane. Imagine if everyone in the world simply succumbed to their base instincts like sociopaths… you saw an attractive woman and although you are married, you simply cannot help yourself from chasing after her because of the fire in your loins. And of course, because of the fire in your loins, you can’t help but lie to her and tell her you’re not actually married, you’ve been a bachelor for 3 years and have been very lonely. And of course, you can’t help but to pretend you like gardening and bird watching ( her favorite hobbies ) because of the fire in your loins… get where i’m going. You absolutely can help it! But you don’t care… your needs are more important. Your needs are more important, thus the integrity of the company you lie to about your references must be compromised because it is more important for YOU to make the large figure they offer. It is more important to you to “have your finger in every pie”, than to be upfront and honest with women.
For sociopaths, they could care less about hurting animals, people. Of course, when it comes to THEMSELVES they’ll be perfectly moral and upright. As long as being perfectly moral and upright is in reference to THEM ( IE : don’t cheat on THEM that would be wrong, but oh they can cheat on you, because well, “you don’t matter” ) Don’t ignore THEM, even if they’ve done something horrible and heinous to you… but they will be pleased to ignore you as cavalierly and as frequently as they please, on simple whim, even if you did absolutely nothing to deserve it.
Given their behavior which speaks for itself, i mean really examining it and not simply coming up with some half-assed excuse for their obviously deliberate and calculated actions… it’s clear that it is all choice. It is choice, they are evil because they want to be evil, that’s all there is to it. Occam’s Razor… the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Humans will come up with all sorts of excuses… oh but they can’t help themselves, oh they must be wired differently ( wrong. ) oh this, oh that. No, no, and no. They do what they do because they want to do it. They don’t care because they really DON’T CARE nor do they WANT TO.
Dancing,
Wow!!!
Great posts! Gave me some clarity!
Thanks!
soimnotthecrazee1!
lesson,
my take on some of what you wrote is that we have an adrenalin addiction. I know that I do. that’s why we backslide. adrenalin feels pretty good. I think there is a connection between it and dopamine, but it isn’t clear yet. You might know more than I because you are studying medicine. Sometimes, when prey animals are being stalked, they sense it and then the herd senses it and starts to run – adrenalin is part of that survival instinct.
Funny thing. it was 1983 in Seattle, I was 17, the exP was starting to stalk me and he said, “have you ever tried an Aulatte?”
He has verbal aphasia, just like GWBush, (misunderestimate me), many P’s have it- it’s a red flag. He was merging the french Cafe Au Laite with italian cafe latte.
I didn’t drink coffee at all but after that first espresso drink, I thought I was in love with him. But really it was the coffee.
Years later, I remember telling him, “when I first fell in love with you, it wasn’t you, it was the coffee, I’m an addict.”
His facial response was blank, but it registered. He knew that it was true and he continued to bring it up 25 years later.
In “I, psychopath,” Sam, the P also talks about using adrenalin to spike his victims. I think adrenalin is a big part of what they do to us.
This is just part of the “ELEPHANT”, that the blind men are feeling out. We feel the trunk and say, “the elephant is like a snake” but another blind man feels the leg and says, “no, the elephant is like a tree”.
There are so many parts to the problem of psychopathy. It’s like an elephant.