Editor’s note: Be sure to read both articles that Ox Drover links to.
By Ox Drover
I ran across two articles in NY Times that sort of got me to thinking about how it sometimes does pay off to act like a psychopath—in business or other ways.
The following (quite long) article tells how an Internet seller terrorized his customer. I think that many people who have been the victims of psychopathic-like stalking can relate to this woman’s story. The fact that it was over such a relatively small amount of money is amazing to me, though. The lengths to which this stalker pursued his victim are also amazing to me.
Read A bully finds a pulpit on the web on NewYorkTimes.com.
This follow up article tells how, eventually, through the persistence of the victim in pursuing justice for the bullying psychopathic-like stalking she got from the abuser, it turned out that the man didn’t get away with his campaign, and now local, state and federal authorities are getting on the band wagon to go after this guy.
Read U.S. arrests online seller who scared customers on NewYorkTimes.com.
The guy even got denied bail. Yea for that judge “getting it.” It will be interesting to me to see how this plays out and just how much real jail/prison time this guy actually gets. While I can’t diagnose someone out of the newspaper, I really do feel that this man fits the criteria for many of the traits of a psychopath and he definitely is a stalker.
Dancingnancies,
Your post about the fact that spaths do things because they can is very true. They have the ability to differentiate right from wrong but they chose to ignore it. It is easier for them to be a liar than to tell the truth.
The part of sociopathy in my h-spath that I could never come to terms with is that he is responsible. I thought that in order to fit this title he would need to be a grifter of sorts. I don’t think this is so true anymore. He has done things that no person with empathy or a conscience would do. When you catch him with something he thinks he is getting away with, he has a stupid smirk on his face. Now I know it’s a dead giveaway.
He used to say that his smile was because he was nervous about something and it has got him into trouble when he was in elementary school. I think it was his giveaway, he was happy that he did something that manipulated someone else or when he caused trouble. It seemed to me an inappropriate response to an action. Now I see it for what it is, a man happy about scaming someone and convincing you he did not do it.
He did this smirk a few days ago when I told him I wasn’t going to stand for his defamation of my character and am prepared to defend myself (I know that this was dumb to show my hand) from his lies. He smirked. Yep, typical spath-hole, a-hole behavior. He had another smirk yesterday when son was short with me. Then asked me a question about daughter like he cares about her well-being. A-hole.
I just ordered the books “A Wolf in Sheeps Clothing”, “Why is it Always About You”, “The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists”, and “The Betrayal Bond”. Hoping they will give me some ideas of how to handle the divorce process and how to communicate with son to protect himself from the spaths criticisms. Spath is doing to son what he did to me, give him elevated status and come out of left field with a wammy of a criticism. Or tell him what he does and does not want.
Another day in the trenches, the difference is that there is an end in sight. For the first time in many years I wake up happy, knowing that life will get better! TOWANDA!
Quest:
“At the same time they are probably mimicing your personality to the people around them and doing a hell of a job at it ”
Oh yes.
I met a man with no hobbies or interests or passions (other than scamming, lying, fornicating, cruelty and gaslighting – but I didn’t KNOW any of that at the time.) I was into restoring antiques and redesigning and recycling disused furniture; lo and behold, all of a sudden, SO WAS HE!!!! (After the initial blaze of “proving it” to me – attending a class together and restoring 3 items – he abruptly stopped and never did any again for 7 years…) I have always volunteered for animal welfare groups and have been a wildlife carer for a number of years; would you believe it – he LOVED animals and had ALWAYS WANTED to do something like that!! (Never helped me at all with feeding, cleaning, dressing wounds, rehabilitation…..yet, after I vacated our house and he moved back in, he began to accept wildlife into his care, claiming to be a volunteer – people thought he was so lovely for doing this – I shudder to think what became of those poor creatures. He had no knowledge, no skill and above all, no genuine interest…) I love to garden; WOW!!! SO DID HE!!!! (Although, strangely, once we bought our own home and came to plant and maintain a new garden, guess who did all of the work????? Yep – that would be ME) and on and on and on and on I could go – he stole my personality, my hobbies, my interests and my passions and to this day is flogging them off as his own…….
They are black, vaccuous holes of nothingness. Hollow, without reflections, without an echo. Voids.
Thank you SO MUCH everyone for your input!!
I’m going to keep coming and reading. The more I read, the more I see. What’s interesting is that as I read, I have more flashbacks of things that were said and/or done to me by my S.
Dancing: I will check out the video link you put up. The medical/psychology of this is fascinating and it also helps me understand things better from that perspective. Thank you for clarifying the choice factor. Choosing to be evil, is just something I cannot comprehend. Why would someone CHOOSE to be evil? That is unfathomable to me. No guilt, no remorse. Nothing.
Shabby, your post resonated with me most. Different forms of denial. I so relate to that. That’s what I did for years and years. Even when I knew the “truth”. I think that’s what’s so frustrating for me and so disheartening too. What was WRONG WITH ME, that I chose to look the other way? I know that it was fear of pain. I didn’t want to let go of what MY perspective of him was, clinging to a belief that things would change. I see fear all along the way in the choices to stay. Right now, I’m almost to my degree. I haven’t worked in over 25 years, although I’ve been working on my degree part time, while also raising six children. I see my fear of success. I see my fear of failure. I see that I don’t have the confidence that I’m bright enough or capable enough to implement all I’ve learned into my career choice. I self sabotage. I’m sooooooooooooo close now. And I’m scared to death!! I hooked up with the fantasy, through that fear, that he would take care of me so I wouldn’t have to take care of myself. 🙁 That’s so hard for me to admit. It’s scary for me too because what’s wrong with me? I did so many stupid things in staying. I emotionally wounded my children with this relationship and my alcohol use. We have since had many conversations about it (I’m very close to my children), as we are all open with one another. But I’ve caused a lot of pain. I can’t take back what I’ve done, and I don’t know how to fix that. I’m so angry at myself, SO ANGRY at myself for allowing MY fear and MY selfishness that hurt my children. I see that I just wasn’t ready to accept these realities of myself. Or of him…I was also very tied to him, bonded to him sexually. I had to face my fear that if I left the relationship, I may never have sex again! I may never have a relationship again! I’m 47 now and I ain’t gettin any younger! I do fear not having a relationship, but at the same time, now, I’d rather NOT have one and deal with me and what’s wrong, than be in a relationship with him or jump into another with someone else. I just have to be alone. And that is a scary proposition for me too! I need to get healthy first, and I know I’m not where I need to be yet.
Ox, it’s amazing to me, that if I stay away from this man, I have no desire for alcohol. I do have a sponsor and we talk often. I also have a VERY good support system!!
I think that if I can stay as determined to make ME work, as I did to attempt to make that relationship work, I’m going to eventually be better. But this is scary for me and a BIG BIG step in my life.
I still have a long way to go and this man “haunts” my community. He lives not far from me and I see him around town. It pisses me off! I want to be able to be in MY community too without worrying about seeing this man. Any ideas on how to deal with thought processes if I do see him? I feel like I’m having to think completely differently now so I don’t allow myself to get sucked back in. To give in to my fear. What can I do about this? I don’t want to live afraid to see this man.
Thank you for sharing your insights and stories. They’re invaluable to me right now.
lesson learned
To be alone (not lonely- you have your kids) is OK.
The physical and emotional pain you are experiencing right now will lessen over time (although you probably don’t think so right now). Keeping busy is one way of working through it, voluntary work maybe.
Try not to beat yourself up over the kids, they will be there for you (unlike spath). Concentrate on being a mother to them. I found this was one thing that I had not done with my spath around. I nearly lost them altogether. They are right beside me now, I explain to them, in small chunks, how this site has helped me and what living with a spath does to us.
It’s tough, and at 51 I think who am I going to share my ‘old age’ with? Then I think oh sh*t I am ‘old’ (according to my kids) so what the hell!
It feels better to be alone than to be with my spath.
Yes we miss them (spaths)….that’s why we stayed with them and put up with their lies, cheating and mind games. They make us think that we can’t get by without them. We have a real fear of being left on the shelf.
Work? Set yourself little targets to get yourself started eg sign up to a college course – something achievable like first aid or food hygiene.
Sex? Oh what the hell!. Yes it was good, but it’s not everything. It only takes up about three minutes of your day!!!
I volunteered at a local old time dance club, mostly over 70’s (behind the bar) meet good, genuine people and it’s all good clean FUN and no strings attached.
Alcohol? Tried that……doesn’t solve anything, but it works short term. Was afraid I might lose my licence so I decided that I would NOT drink at all until my head is clear. So far it’s working.
If you do see him in the street how about straightening your shoulders, head up, firm stride, no eye contact, look straight ahead, purposeful walk and imagine he’s a lamppost and just walk straight on. He sees you as an ‘object’ so just reverse it!
I plan to move, start over. I handed my notice in at work, got a new job – miles away and aim to move nearer to my work.
It’s the only way to go no contact. If they are around the corner or we fear them turning up (as I do) the only way out is for us to disappear. This may sound like I’m running away, and I guess that’s true, but if it means I keep my sanity, my kids, money, then it will be worth it.
Don’t give in…….don’t give him the satisfaction of winning.
Dear Candy,
some great advice, and I do NOT think you are “running away”—-moving on to safer territory is NOT running away.
And so what? Even if you DID “run away” who in the world can say it is NOT THE SMART, INTELLIGENT AND WISE THING TO DO? Retreat is NOT DEFEAT!
Sounds to me like you have your head on straight! TOWANDA!!!!
Hi Ox. Thanks for this vote of confidence.
I read a lot of your comments on here when I first sent my spath packing for looking at incest images on my pute (and a heap of other stuff)
You give a great deal of hope and encouragement to people like myself who have nowhere else to turn.
People on here can really understand what it means to be SPATHED.
Long may this site continue to support those of us who are at different stages of our spath encounters.
WOW, Candy!!
Thank you SO much for sharing your insights and story! It’s encouraging to hear of women that are older too and going through this stuff and are DOING GREAT!!
I so admire you’re willingness to move!! I’ve considered it and ALMOST did it once, BUT, my boys are still in high school, two more years and the last one is done. I’ve been in the same area for many years and stability is incredibly critical for my children. I don’t want to uproot them. Currently, I’m in college, I hope to graduate in June. I’m at the tail end of getting my degree and the classes are HARDER AND HARDER towards the end! I’m on Christmas break right now, with WAY too much time on my hands! But at the same time, I’m really grateful to HAVE the time for reflection and thought. School consumes a great deal of my life. There is little time for anything else but studying and it will be that way until graduation. I have thought that if I’m blessed enough to find employment, I would consider a move in a couple of years when my son’s graduate from high school.
I guess it’s a matter of priorities.
Candy, the volunteer idea is awesome and I’m so glad you enjoy it! I know how helpful that can be. I miss working in hospice a lot. I volunteered there and fell in love with it and the patients. I won’t be doing direct patient care, as my degree will be on the Administrative level. I have chronic illnesses that prevented me from pursuing love one: nursing, but once I become established and employed I would LOVE to volunteer in hospice again.
I do struggle with missing him. But only with what I wanted him to be, not what he really was. When I think about that, I get VERY anxious!! Funny how that works…. I was anxious before, with him, but in the end the anxiety got worse and i FEARED being around him, yet wanted to be at the same time. HOW WEIRD IS THAT?
Ya know, I’ve done a lot of stupid things in response and reaction in this relationship. I’m still scared that even I might have a personality disorder. Really scared about it now. My reactions to him were not normal at all. NOTHING in my reactions and responses to him, or having anything to do with him was at all normal. I looked like the crazy one….and now I’m concerned that I WAS the crazy one. I’m still sorting through all of that. A lot of sorting to do.
LOL! Candy you’re right about the sex part of it, huh? Three minutes out of your day LOL!!! Even if I were to be honest about that, it was mechanical. When my friends talk about sex, it’s all filled with passion and all. I love you’s etc. My spath NEVER MADE A SOUND UNLESS FOR EFFECT. WEIRDEST SHIT EVER!!! But he had stamina, could go for awhile…but that’s all it was. Nothing more. I learned to accept that too, just to be able to be sexual at all. UGH!!!
There is a sense of relief here because I see so much more than I have on any other site I’ve visited. I use to think that my ex was “just” an N. I think it’s more than that. This site offers far more information in understanding the DYNAMICS of it, that I’m really not alone and have felt alone for a very long time. Alone in my fear.
I’m so grateful for this site. I’m just gonna keep right on reading too while I have the time to do it!
Thank you so much Candy. You too Ox. Your situation was absolutely amazing….if you can survive, certainly there is hope for the rest of us!
Dear Lesson learned,
Sounds to me like you are DOING WELL!!!! Staying in school and finishing up your courses (and yes, they do get harder and harder as you get closer to graduation!) and providing a safe home for your sons. I think kids need their parents more at 16 than at 6! So you are there for them as well.
I enjoyed different aspects of nursing and there are administrative roles people can do in nursing as well. One reason I went into nursing was that within that ROLE of “nurse” there are so many different “jobs” that you can do even if you are in a wheel chair. What put me on the employment side lines was my “Swiss cheese memory” and I got to the point I wasn’t SAFE to do direct patient care any more—and frankly, after the plane crash that killed my husband I was an EMOTIONAL basket case as well—and that left me vulnerable to the P boy friend, then that left me vulnerable to the Ps within my family—sort of down hill on a bob-sled! One psychopathic encounter setting me up for the next one to take over!
Once we get to where we have sort of “hit bottom” and are laying there like road kill…we have to get our breath and start to stagger up from the ground, shaking our heads and wondering “what the fark hit me?!” Then we have to start to figure out how to get back up that hill to survival, and then to productivity as well.
It sounds to me like you have gotten up, dusted yourself off, made a decision that was good for YOU AND YOUR KIDS, AND KEEPING THEM IN AN AREA AND A SCHOOL they are familiar with is TAKING CARE OF THEIR STRESSES TOO….and moving is a stress–CHANGE is a stress—so if we can keep the changes down to a minimum we are better off. When you get your degree, and your kids are out of the house—either to jobs or more school—then you can look at some changes for the positive side.
In the meantime, I think you are doing just GREAT!!! One little bit of progress toward a reasonable goal each day!!!
ps. sex with a psychopath isn’t nearly as good as “do it yourself” sex, at least you know you haven’t been cheating on yourself and you aren’t going to get STDs. (*sorry, the devil made me say that! LOL) hee hee
Hi lesson learned….you’ve come a long way, although it may not feel like it at the moment. The hospice is a very worthwhile cause.
Congratulations on your college course, it can not have been easy with all the other stuff going on in your life.
Keep pushing forward.
Stability for the kids is important. Do what you feel is right for you and them. And yes, keep reading, it’s a great way to empower yourself.
My experiences almost mirror yours. How weird is that?
I was a nurse for 25 years, I think spaths latch on to ‘good’ people. You are right, we think we can help them, but all they do is help themselves!
When I have too much time on my hands I clean, windows, paintwork, cupboards and it’s very therapeutic.
The fear is real. For example my spath used to drive like a maniac, no thought for anyone else. It keeps us afraid, it’s all part of his plan to control us.
The spaths – when they go – leave that nagging doubt that it’s us who are crazy – but we are not. We have been under their mind control for so long we begin to question ourselves.
Sex was as you say, no sound, emotion, cuddles and yes he could go on for ages but what’s the point if there’s no feelings. We were just a ‘thing’ to them when it came down to it.
Have you done the spath test on him? It is very revealing, mine ticked all the boxes!
Looks like I’m going to have a struggle to work in the morning, snow here and more is forecast.
Take care of yourself.
EB,
I can’t remember what thread you said it on but 10 FEET of snow! I’ve never been in that kind of snow (worst is 24 inches in 2 days and -10 degrees with 30-40 mph winds) and I can’t imagine how you function with that much snow!
Went up toward Tahoo once in the spring and saw the unmelted dunes around the front doors of houses 8 or 10 feet deep shoveled out so people could get out, and snow piled up to the roof lines or higher….don’t know how people can live in that, but guess it is possible! I didn’t know how people could live in the Imperial Valley in summer either, but 1 summer there convinced me it wasn’t for me! LOL (didn’t take me long to look at a hot horse shoe!)
How in the heck do you dig out when there is 10 feet of snow in front of your door? Do you lose power often in that? We lose power back here in 2-3 inches of snow knocking pine trees over on the lines or 1-2 inches of ice. I keep a generator for power losses over a few minutes! Keep well stocked food supply and even 50 gals of water stocked up just in case.
Hope you are okay over the storm! Hunker down and stay warm!
You too, candy!