Josef Fritzl – psychopath

Orphan,

People are not JUST “individuals” but are also part of a specific family group or “herd”—different species have different evolutionary and genetic things that have helped them survive as a species. Prey animals as a general rule live in herds or in colonies (buffalo, cattle, horses, prairie dog towns etc) but some species live in family groups, singly or a nuclear family, mother and babies, until the babies are able
to go out on their own.

Humans are “herd” animals and we generally prefer to live in groups (neighborhoods, tribes, extended families) though there are of course individuals who prefer to live solitary lives.

How any “herd” gets along with each other, who is the leader, who is the follower, and how they socialize, breed, find food, shelter, etc. and defend each other is somewhat genetic, and somewhat trained as we grow up.

Elephant herds are a single older female leader, she is THE one in charge but she is a benign dictator, and will offer her life in defense of the herd. Babies are allowed to nurse from any lactating cow in the herd, adolescent females act as baby sitters, and guides to the younger babies. Males are thrown out of the herd to live essentially solitary lives at maturity, only returning to the cows to breed.

How much of this is genetic? I would think a great deal as if the members (individuals) in the herd did not interact this way the evolutionary benefit wouldn’t be there.

We already know that there are genes as well as enfironment (learning etc) that influence the Ps and Ns of this world, and I have no doubt that there is a group of “subservience” genes as well. Look at certain breeds of dogs that tend to be very “subservient” and other breeds that are “aggressive”—of course training (i.e. environment) can to some degree make a subservient breed more aggressive or vice versa, but in GENERAL members of a breed of dogs (or any animal) that is generally more aggressive or less aggressive, will be pretty much “right on”—so I have little doubt that it holds true with people as well. Our biological nature should not be discounted just because we can THINK more than animals can.

Because people don’t “look” different like breeds of dogs and in general our “pedigrees” are not as well kept or known, you can’t tell by looking at a person (always) whether he is a Pit bull or a Beagle—-there are some behavioral “clues” with “body language” etc. as to whether a person is more or less aggressive, but these are not usuallly as obvious as they would be in a dog who might be barking, baring his teeth, etc. or cowering on the ground wagging their tails.

Dogs, as a general rule, will use aggression or violence against another dog UNTIL the other dog submits, and then STOP attacking when the subservient dog gives up, rolls over and exposes its throat and belly.

In a herd of cattle, there is usually only one bull, but if there are more the bulls will continually spar, and a young bull growing up in a pasture with his father will keep trying to establish dominance and never give up completely, he will keep trying to “take over” as the BIG bull.

The cows have a dominance ladder, the top cow, the one under her, and so on down to the last poor cow who is subservient to everyone. The bull doesn’t generally interfeer with this cow dominance, but they will generally give way to his greater size etc.

There will seldom be a “fight” among the cows for a lower cow to rise up in status UNLESS the top cow is taken out of the herd or dies. Then there will be a day or two of sparring, or even fighting, until the next “top cow” is decided upon and then no more sparring. With cattle, generally it is NOT like the elephant cow who will sacrifice her life for the herd or any member of it, but more a “I get the best feed first” dominance.

What does all this have to do with humans or Psychopaths? Well, I had an abusive cow once. She was bigger and more aggressive than the rest of the cows and she was DOMINANT. But she was mean with her dominance and status and would hook a horn in another cow in a mean way just BECAUSE SHE COULD, and after a while of this, the rest of the cows all got tired of her abuse and three of them took her on all at once and beat the snot out of her. I actually thought they were going to kill her as I watched the fight. In the end, she fled their attack, and after that, lived only on the fringes of the herd, essentially driven off (If I hadn’t had fences to contain her) She had no friends, and would play with her calf every year as that was the only animal in the herd that would associate with her. My husband actually felt sorry for her and wanted to buy her a companion animal. (It wouldn’t have worked)

Interestingly enough, this cow was a “kicker” and because we handled our animals, taught them to lead, and in some cases, taught them to pull wagons,we interacted with our cattle more than most beef cattle breeders so picked up on various things that wouldn’t have even been noticed in most farms. But EVERY one except one of her ten calves were also KICKERS. They would nail you when you least expected it. They were all “hard headed” and difficult to train to lead. OUt of the hundreds of calves I have taught to lead on a halter, ONLY hers were kickers on a consistent basis, and they never gave up this trait, so most if not all of her offspring ended up at the butchers as I will not tolerate consistently dangerous large animals on my farm. Large animals can hurt you by accident but I won’t have one that TRIES to hurt you on a consistent basis.

By the time I had cattle that I had had for 4-5-6 generations, I knew which “families” of cattle (mother, daughter, granddaughter etc) were “gentle” and which were not. I eliminated the females that were aggressive with me, or aggressive within the herd from my breeding stock.

Within the larger “herd” I could also see the “family relationships” that extended over generations. At night when they lay down to rest, the “families” would be closer together, they would groom each other more, etc. So it was a kind of microcosim of a group of families in a larger community (herd) and I began to observe in earnest. It was amazing to me how it mirrored human families and communities. Of course most males were either castrated (which effectively made them act more as cows) or butchered, with all intact males sold at puberty…but I became fascinated by the interactions and the GENETICS.

I also watched the learning of the calves about WHAT was to be avoided as dangerous. They watched the older cows and their older sibs to see what to run from, or what to attack. My breed of cattle (Scottish Highlands) has a very aggressive tendency to predators and even young calves will attack harassing dogs, and the entire herd will come to the defense of a calf in distress, but they are generally very gentle otherwise—with some exceptions. While they accepted me as “alpha” to them, even I gave way to instinct when a calf was in distress or newly born.

Looking at families, and taking a biological theory, I think there are definitely genetics at play. Looking at families over multiple generations and the roles that each plays, and the similarities and the differences in them, I think there are definitely genetics at play in aggression, in subservience, in bonding, in protecting the young, in training the young.

In training dogs I don’t punish the pups by hiting them (which they don’t understand) but I show my teeth and GROWL at them, or if they are really definant, I shake their ruff and growl (just like their mother would train them) and if they are VERY bad, I will BITE them on the ear and roll them over on their backs until they submit. (I admit this is “crazy” to see a full grown woman down on her hands and knees growlilng at a pup! LOL) but it is back to biology.

I’m reading a book now on family role theory (most of which is outdated and ascribes schitzrophrenia to an over attachment to the mother (and we know now that it is geneticly caused) but there ARE ascribed “roles” in our family and just as the cows in the herds and the dogs in the packs stay in their “niche role” within that “family” and “community” we tend to stay in our assigned “role” within the family.

I do agree that a family is an emotional UNIT, just as with animals. Breaking OUT of that role that you have been assigned by GENETICS AND LEARNING is difficult. I am working to do so myself. I’m not sure I will EVER totally succeed, but I do know one thing, I do NOT intend to continue to allow myself to lie down and let the Psychopaths inside the family or outside the family abuse me.

I look back and remember the day that the three subservient cows rose up against the “psychopath” cow and drove her out of the herd, and I wonder just what made them finally come to the point that they had “had enough” of her abuse and weren’t going to take any more. I know for a fact that it was totally “out of character” for cows for the three of them to cooperate to beat her to a stand still, but they managed to do so.

So I figure if a cow can do it, I CAN DO IT. LOL I will train myself to NOT feel guilty for standing up for myself, and I will train myself that it is NOT my “shame” because of the situation. I will BREAK the cycle and become FREE.

I just read a news article about this man and his crime in the newspaper..in his country, the rape, kidnapping, etc. will get him 15 years in prison (9 less than he held his daughter prisoner) but they are thinking about adding another charge because his failing to act might/probably caused the death of one of her babies–that would be 20 years for “murder”–

The article said that he was “unemotional” as he was charged. Also that he chose the children he sired on his daughter to go live “upstairs” on the basis of who was “not a crybaby”–

How psychopathic is all that? WOW! Not that there was any doubt, but goodness, that “sounds so P” to me.

The article also said that the wife of Josef, Elizabeth, and all the children except the 19 yr old who is seriously ill met and that it “went well”—

And I think I have problems…sort of makes me think just how fortunate I am…how fortunate most of us are compared to the victims that make the international and national news.

I think sometimes because the pain does “fill us up” totally, I forget in the grand scheme of things just how well off I am. I dont have any children by a P to have to share custody with, I don’t have to live in a shelter, they didn’t kill me, and I do have some family that loves and respects me, and several wonderful friends and supporters. I think sometimes I dwell on the negative aspects, instead of the more positive one, specifically that I am FREE of them.