By | May 1, 2008 200 Comments

Heeding the exploiter’s earliest warnings

Editor’s note: This article was submitted by Steve Becker, LCSW, CH.T, who has a private psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and clinical consulting practice in New Jersey, USA. For more information, visit his website,

In my work with clients involved with exploitative personalities, it’s not unusual to learn, together, that detectable, early warning signals went unrecognized, minimized, or both.

This isn’t to blame the subsequent victims of abusive partners; there are many instances where such clues were lacking (and even when not, blame is inappropriate). But it’s to appreciate, undefensively, that the honeymoon phase of a relationship is almost, by definition, one that invites a level of denial. The denial helps protect our fantasy that we’ve finally met our perfect love partner. It’s in the honeymoon phase, especially, that our need to idealize a prospective partner is at its strongest, correspondingly leaving our objectivity—and sobriety—at its weakest. This makes for a worrisome combination, specifically encouraging the ignoring of ominous signals that, even if subtle, are no less invaluable and critical.

In retrospect, my clients are often surprised to admit that the exploiter in whom they chose to invest really did “tip his hand” more than they wanted, later, to admit. Not all, but many sociopaths aren’t clever enough to fully disguise, even in the early stages of a relationship, their core self-centeredness and insensitivity, if our radar is sufficiently non-compromised.

The key, of course, is first to recognize these signs. But interestingly this isn’t the hardest challenge. The hardest challenge is then to heed them.

I find that many of my clients were in fact cognizant of odd, disconcerting behaviors/attitudes that their exploitative partners were reckless enough to reveal (or incapable of concealing). They may have even felt troubled by them. But in their intense need to want the relationship, and the partner, to be the elusive fit they so hungrily sought, they found ways to suppress their uneasiness: to ignore and/or minimize the significance of these signals; and rationalize the alarms their instincts triggered.

In other words, it’s not so much that their antennae are necessarily impaired (because often they aren’t); rather, it’s their weak response to what their antennae properly register that is the problem. It’s like a smoke detector that goes off in a distant room in the house. You hear it, or think you do, but you’re so slumberously inebriated that you convince yourself you’re not hearing what’s inconvenient to hear—maybe it’s not really the smoke detector—and so rationalize, at great personal risk, your inaction. The inconvenient, much less pleasant reaction (and action) would be to confront—and not ignore—the dimly perceived, but potentially lifesaving, signal. Among other lessons, this suggests just how inconvenient and unpleasant it sometimes is to have to take the steps necessary to protect ourselves.

When I work with clients who find themselves in, or recovering from, victimizing relationships, this theme takes on great meaning and becomes a source of self-empowerment. My clients are determined to become more confident, not only in their radar for uncovering the first dubious chinks in their partners; they are even more determined to learn how to heed these earliest warnings in present, and future relationships.

Whether the warning is more jarring, like a flash of previously unseen rage or coldness, or more subtle, like a disarming expression of entitlement, they’ll want to notice it (the first, and easier task); and then, confronting their powers of rationalization, they’ll want to examine it seriously and soberly for precisely the implications they’re so fearful of seeing.

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It’s easy for me to read this now and say, “Yes!” I would assume that most of us who come here are here after the fact. For us, our job as well as part of our healing process, if you will, is to help spread the word about potential victiimization of people to others. This type of article is a great way to start that process. Thank you for sharing the obvious for those of us dealing with picking up the pieces.

My radar is way up, now, almost to a fault, but I’d rather lose a few people I thought were friends than to go through what I did yet another time. I don’t think I’d survive the next round.


This article was particularly insightful, and rang true with me. The children and I did seem to idealize him for the first 6 months or a year, thinking he was almost “perfect” (during the honeymoon phase). There were many early warning signs with my S (history of damaged relationships , he had run with motorcycle gangs in his youth, had been jailed for assault, periodic “episodes” of anger and behaving in an extremely juvenile manner, speaking negatively about EVERYONE except 1 friend and his daughter, having a history of lawsuits with former friends, wives, business partners, and other contractors). He also said some bizarre things early on in the relationship which I now find gave me clues such as “life is smoke and mirrors”, “it’s all about the money”, “the best liar wins”, “a man needs a place a woman needs a reason”, “life is a chess game”, “better to ask for forgiveness than permission”, and “whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks” (whatever that means), “you hate me” (when I said no I did not) he replied, “just give it time, you will”. As time went on, he stopped saying these things and I didn’t recognize them as insights into his character until after the relationship dissolved…”poofed” is a better word.

I did have concerns about his financial viability (seems he was always late on bills but he was very paranoid and secretive about his personal and business financial affairs. I later found out why…embezzlement, tax fraud, money laundering).

Conversely, he was EXTREMELY generous and seemingly calm and kind (he tries to buy love or adoration). He was not particularly affectionate overtly, but was very cuddly and warm to sleep with and very sexual and believe I was addicted to our love life. I also felt very safe with him (body builder, aggressive and seemingly very protective). As a somewhat conservative and law-abiding person, I rather enjoyed his seemingly wild abandon and occasional recklessness and thought he was a reformed “bad boy”. He was always available by phone, always came home on time, but now that I look back, I realize it was about him controlling me, not concern, kindness nor protectiveness! I did want to see the GOOD in him, and tried to smooth over the warning signs…although, thankfully, I did not invest with him although he tried 5 different schemes over 3 years…had I done so, he would have blown through every penny. He is extremely impulsive in his buying habits, and he buys anything and everything he wants…then figures out how to lie/cheat/con to pay for them later.

I vow in the future to always listen to that inner warning system, to the inner voice with says, “PROCEED WITH CAUTION” or now, one red flag and you’re out! There were most definitely SIGNS…I just didn’t recognize them, and/or elected to ignore them in the hope that they would just go away.

Thanks for the great article!


Below is a link which provides “clues” to psychopathic predator behavior.

(scroll down on website)

Ox Drover

Some are better at concealing their intentions than others, but I think that they ALL give clues if we will listen to the clues. I can look back and see clues from all of them that I RATIOLIZED.

Peggy, the “whip me, beat me, make me write hot checks” is just a joke about sadasim, sort of like “sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me.”

My psycho (sounds like a 1950s TV show) was obscene from the beginning. At first I was ashamed to admit this….BUT I remmebered why I continued on with this “friendship.”

The first conversation he admitted affairs, porn, assorted deparvities… so why on earth did I remain/want this man’s frinedship??? Because I automatically ASSumed he told me these things because he wanted to reform his ways, was ashamed– was confessing. I am a Christian….he claimed to be…. So that’s why I cont. on being his “friend” because I thought I was his, and in a way I also believed I could “help.”

Another fault of mine- chronic “helper.” He taunted me later on for being a “helper”….accused me of self-aggrandismnet through helping. Claimed I was looking for recognition. He had me coming and going- I could do nothing right.


Hey Peggywhoever. What a great little link and good concise info. I liked the statement ‘DEVILS UNDERSTAND ANGELS, BUT ANGELS DO NOT UNDERSTAND DEVILS’ – so get better informed, which is what we are all doing here!! Angels that is!! I am spreading some of this information around my friends in the UK.

Talking of another devil, my 5 blood tests all came back clear! Whew. I hope that was the last roller coaster for a long long while. Lots and lots of love and (((((hugs)))) to you all.

That’s great news, Beverly!

I’ve been off reading peggy’s listed site, too, and that same sentence stuck in my head. I also loved this:

The empathetic bind is the belief that everybody’s behavior is run through the empathy test prior to action. A devil is devoid of this bind. Thus, they act without consideration for another’s feelings.

I do just naturally assume people are good intentioned and have my best interest at heart, as I have theirs.

One thing I did notice with the guy was that he was always suspect of my motives. An old friend appeared out of the blue after five years and I told him about this friend. His first response was something along the lines of: “Oh, it’s all falling into place for you” and other comments that alluded to the notion that I was going to cheat on him or leave him for the friend.

I was all, “huh?” Because that is so not how I think or operate.

Whenever I just wanted to say something to him, apropos of nothing, just conversation, he’d often take it personally. This I didn’t comprehend, because I had no “intent” beforehand.

I just assumed he knew I had good intent or no intent in sharing these things, and couldn’t figure out why he responded that way.


Hi LilOrphan. Thanks, it is good news, Im still not in top form, but undeterred I am still active and I have put my place up for sale and hoping to move to a better area and if needs be in between having my treatment.

A very good link from Peggywhoever. My exN HATED children with a vengence and would make rude remarks about them in front of their parents! Within weeks he told me he was a ‘cold hearted b…..std’ -a red flag on the empathy front. He knew himself better than I did and I thought I could thaw him out. Big mistake.


when i write out my xS earliest warnings it is so obvious that he was no good and my instinct was dead on. but for some reason i didn’t commit to my decision not to talk to him anymore. i remember even before i knew anything about what a sociopath really was or knowing what he was like, feeling worried that he had checked to see if my car was parked at my house. he just seemed like that ‘type of guy’ to me.

i think seeing him again, the feeling of lonliness, and the play him made right on valentine’s day is what cracked it.

after that i did learn my lesson about the aggressive signs thank god! because my neighboor sociopath was flatterng me like crazy but during a car ride with him he had an extremely abberent burst of aggression towards everybody and i thought to myself ‘i hate you, john.’ and cancelled all future plans of assocating with him.


I think for most of us that we could all look back NOW and see the warning signs. It’s so easy to see once their true nature has been revealed but at the time we were ensnared those red flags, although they were there, are SO very well concealed or disguised.
I knew my P for 7 years before anything happened. I had never felt any attraction towards him in all that time and yet somehow he managed to pounce. and hijack my emotions. It was like being struck by lightening.
My P was protected by his Other Woman (also his employer) who concealed his true nature by lying for him and telling everyone what a good person he was. If it had not been for her, I would never have been subjected to his cunning as any decent employer would have got rid have him years before. Without her cover, many of us would have seen through him much earlier.

I appreciate your feedback, Warrior and Peggywhoever. I’m glad you found some of the points in my piece useful, even though it was a sort of an “after the fact” article. But I’ve found in my work that, however obvious it may seem “now,” it’s still useful to examine in some depth the factors–for example, the self-deceptions, the reluctance to relinquish the exciting fantasy, etc–which, in retrospect, inhibited a client from heeding her (or his) active, accurate, even healthy radar in a timely, assertive fashion. Again, I thank you for your feedback. Also, I remains, as always, astounded by the depth and wisdom of the interactions on the site.

Beverly, ah, those warning signs! Some of the things he told me, were in actual fact, huge red flags, that I ignored totally at the time. Things that were his way of telling me who he really is. One of those things was his hatred of children. He spoke with venom as he said, ‘I hate f*ckin’ kids’. Later, I found out that he was into paedophilia! Makes my skin crawl now to think that he came anywhere near me and my family. And I ask myself many times, why on earth didn’t I take notice of the Red Flags in the first place, rather than make excuses for him.

Best of luck with moving house Beverly. It is excellent news that your blood tests came back clear. I admire your strength, Lord knows, it is hard enough to come to terms with what these guys put us through without being ill too. Hugs, and may you continue to regain your strength and be back to full health very quickly.


He lied to me the first day he met me. Then said he was justified in doing so 3 months later.

His behavior drove me crazy early on, the whole game of it, the maybe, the flirting and running, the verbal possibility he kept extending without the actions backing it up.

I saw the warning signs, and ignored them, wanting to believe in him.

BOY would I have spared myself incalculable paid had I heeded the red flags the first 90 days.

Nothing ever changed, b.t.w., it was just more of the same on and off for 4 years.

NEVER again will I let hormones blind me to facts. There are NO excuses for lack of action and lying. None.


Help! It’s been a long time. No contact. Full realization that he’s an S and N and has forgotten all about me. He replaced me twice with other women but today I found out the latest moved in with him! Already! In less than a year. I know it’s cause she has money even though he has money of his own.

But here is the rub. I was overcome with envy. It set me off bad and I started thinking how could he replace me in OUR house. She is now in the place we put together. I knew all along it was his place not ours and I am the one who left him. But how could she not know…she was warned by mutual friends in no uncertain what he has done over and over to countless women.

I know I did the same as her and moved in with him and I know she will go through the hell I did. Because once you live with a narcissist the monster is unleashed. So someone tell me why I care, why the envy and sadness? I think I just don’t want him to be happy. How he skipped right along and captured a new victim weeks after I was gone. So easy for him. I have been all alone trying to heal and he is off wooing her the same he did me.

And logically I know I should be greatful to be free. But deep down, what if he really LOVES her and it was me who was just unlovable. What if he is really happy and I am still wounded. I hate myself for giving him this power still. I guess we all come here until we don’t need to. But I am so glad for this blog I have no one to turn to or they would say…you’re still thinking about him? Who cares, she can have him, he;ll make her life hell.

But I fear maybe their life will be the wonderful one that he promised me. I miss the fantasy and can’t seem to grasp that it was a lie today.
Anyone else go through this?

I don’t want her to have to hurt like I did, but in a sick way I do so she will leave him and he will hurt too, or at least have to go through the rigamarole of finding another victim. And I hate that I am feeling that way. THanks for any coping advice. You all make me know I am sane, healthy and have a pure heart who was just emotionally scarred in the presence of evil.


I just read your second to last post. Wonderful news about your blood tests! May your loving spirit heal your body from the inside out. Good luck on your move. 🙂


I found my ex’s behaviour so confusing, because it was sometimes loving and sometimes cruel, that I thought there was something wrong with me. I met him 6 months after I separated from my ex-husband, who had withdrawn from me and put me down for 3 years before the marriage finally eneded. I was very lonely, had low self-esteem and my self-confidence was shot. The perfect victim.

I recognised that the break-up of my marriage was partly my fault and I desperately wanted to avoid making the same mistakes again. So I had counselling and learned all about expressing myself openly, using ‘I’ language, clearly stating what I wanted, and accepting the other person. All these skills are great with a normal person. But they dump you right into a psycopath’s hands. They cause you to tell the psycopath exactly what your goals and weaknesses are and how to manipulate you.

I’ve finally learned how to protect myself. But how do I teach my kids how to recognise a psycopath without making them suspicious and cynical? There are benefits in being open and trusting and seeing the best in others but I realise now that it’s also a weakness if it isn’t balanced by streets smarts.

Ox Drover


Great news on the medical front! Keep up the good workk and continue to be good to yourself, that is going to be the “best medicine” you can get.

Yep, the EARLY WARNING SIGNS, and they were there, I saw them and totally DISCOUNTED them because I didn’t want them to be true, the FANTASY was too appealing to lose and I chose to ignore them—INFORMED DENIAL—Ah, golly, Aloha, that is SUCH A WONDERFUL PHRASE, and oh, so true! Thanks again for that term. LOL

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see, and none so deaf as those who REFUSE to hear. I “bingo’d” on all fronts! Let the first sniff of a red flag waving in the breeze now at two mile’s distance and I am GONE— just like the proverbial cow patty, I will hit the trail, or like the trees, I will leave!


Swallow. Agreed. Given their well constructed veneer. My exN had a team of people who offered supportive testimonials as to his strength of character. I did NOT go into it blindly, I asked, I probed probably more than any most mainstream women would have done. I checked his criminal record form and that was clear. I googled his name, his family and acqaintances (they dont have real friends) all said he was a ‘decent bloke’. Then I asked his ex girlfriend (she said nothing other than he was a control freak). I believe I am the only one who really knows his true secret. If you dont know about personality disorders (and I didnt at that time- Its very easy to be very misguided – and I would said given their cunning that is normal.

Ahhh yes OxDrover – those red flags, I did see em, I did hear em and I did react to em, but I didnt understand what he was up to, so I didnt ACT on em (i.e. I took him back over and over again after he punished me by finishing the relationship must have been over ten times in a year – every time I reacted to his odd or controlling behaviour he punished me for speaking up. Infact once he said ‘Things will be fine if you just keep your mouth shut!!

Behind my back, he was out scanning the horizons for other prey. He gave me the evidence (the phone he used that I leant him), it had various texts to various females on ONE day at various times, when he was obviously probing his supply to get his needs met and because they all turned him down he then sent me a text that I would predictably react to -he offered to meet to talk about things and I did meet him – but luckily that day I gave him nothing more.


Thank you OxD, Ariadne, Marie and all the other kind people here who I know have supported me in thoughts and prayers during my cliffhanging moments.

Having an encounter with a Narcissist was bad enough (I knew nothing about pesonality disorders then) and he kept it secret. Thats why he kept trying to say ‘dont try and change me’ – he knew he couldnt change.

One cliffhanger after another for no good end, which I thought would stop when I booted him out of my life. What was to follow – the fallout – kept my head spinning for 6 months or more afterwards, the compulsive thinking, the PTSD, the terrible realisation of who and what I had been involved in – feeling unwell all the time, other personal events going on (two deaths in the family) etc etc, diagnosis of breast cancer, then HIV scare. I feel like I have been to hell and back.

The property market is depressed here in the UK at present, so I have put mine on the market and just wait – but thank you all for your kind thoughts and support.


The upside of what happened to me has not only taught me alot about personality disorders and those RED FLAGS – the big red flags and all the little ones – a red flag is a red flag.

But more importantly, it has taught me that whatever hard times and demons we have to face, God’s Loving Support is always there. I always had no support in life, had to row my own boat from a young child and shoulder other people. This experience has really opened my eyes and my heart and I always believed in God before and revered God, but now I can actually see it and feel it and that is a wonderful thing. That is my experience. I thank you all as shades of God’s Loving Support and I know that OxD will understand this.


Hello all. This is my very first post on this website. I have read and read and read and read and cried and still can’t believe what has happened to me ! Im in Melbourne Australia, and everything I read here is so totally unbelievably true and I have suffered and still suffering from a sociopathic relationship with a man who was my ‘soulmate’ and I still believe is.. no matter what I read I sit here with an aching heart. It will be 10 years on 21st November this year. Ten years of trying to make him see sense, of my undying love. I feel sick, crazy. My friends are tired of me, and nobody understands. Nobody. Everyone tells me to move on, let go. etc. etc. etc. etc. there isnt anything i haven’t tried. From spells to psychologists, to tarot to almost driving myself crazy. He has left me and come back more than 10 times, and I would still have him back tomorrow.. I am a quarter of the beautiful woman that I once was.. having the reputation of party girl.Nothing and nobody could bring me down like this man has.. i left my husband for him. I think my ex husband was a narcissist as well. Its my good good beautiful nature that he has almost destroyed. I thank god for my strength and my sense of humour. I feel like the stuffing has been punched out of me. I know I am in control. there is so so so so so so much more.. my laptop battery is dying but I will be back here. .thank you so much to all the women out there, that have helped me see that i AM NOT, REPEAT , NOT CRAZY. having no contact is so hard. so many memories, playing over and over and over and over and over in my head, my poor children have an absent mother. and I dont want that, they are beautiful and have been so much support, when it should be the other way around.. my children’s father is in a coma . .has been for 2 years.. the sociopath left me in march 2006, and my ex husband had a massive stroke in june 2006..i need help, i need your support. I am in so much pain, I have suffered like never before in my life, thank god I have a job, a great job, a great family, beautiful friends who can’t believe how devoted I am to the crazy man, I saw him again last weekend and he lives interstate with his daughter, and then i dont hear from him , he turns his phone off, he has another woman up there, I know that for certain, and yet he keeps telling me trust me trust me and trust me. He blamed me for him leaving, he is an alcoholic, and I am in love with the illusion, excusing him for all the bad things he has done and the way he has treated me. He ran off every time some thing went wrong, he blamed me for eveything he did. he brags he was married for 18 years without ANY arguing… his ex just worked him out, and just did her own thing. They came to Australia from East Germany only over 10 years ago. and and and and and there is a book I could write about all this. I am constantly apologising to my good friends and family for going on and on and on and on . they tell me i am attractive, intelligent and can be with anyone i want to be with, and i know that, yet my spine tingles when i think of not being with him . help. i can’t go on .


I know that some people get touchy when you talk religion here. But through the darkest times we draw on whatever support systems we have. For people like me with next to no family, I was put in care at aged 6 and I have two living close family members only, and my experiences will be different to those of other people. BUT we all share a common denominator here and the support of site contributors here is amazing.

I can only relate my experiences and I dont want to be cryptic because I want to share all levels of my experience, like many people have done here. They say ‘it takes one to know one’. Let me reprint the sentence in my last contribution. I thank YOU ALL AS SHADES OF GOD’s loving support. This is my experience.


Yes, God is Good. I don’t think we should be afraid to say this- He is the most potent warrior we have in this fight- and all the angles and Saints. Not to mention the Blessed Virgin Mary….

I am Catholic -obviously-and have been through various stages of “spirituality” and been away from the Church etc. And know that church attendance does not mean holy….BUT that said….I agree…the best support ANY victim of a psycho has is taking refuge in God.

God has been fighting the Devil for years.

Ox Drover

I totally agree that a spiritual aspect is needed in healing. I am a Christian, I try to be a good one, but sometimes I fail to live up to my ideal, I let anger over come me, and bitterness, etc. but the spiritual aspect of my healing is something that I think is very important.

I don’t think WHAT your spiritual aspect is (even people who don’t ‘believe in any god” have some sort of spritual aspect to their selves. What ever that spritual aspect is, I think we need to draw heavily upon it.

Telling a complete stranger and receiving caring and validation can be VERY healing. Sometimes it is easier to do that than to tell someone who knows you, it is less threatening because you will probably never see that person again. I think those strangers that we can tell and cry in front of are “angels in disguise” for us, they help us get the tears out, to feel validated, and that the human race as a whole is not all Ps. There are good caring people in this world and I think that we need to have that afirmed from time to time.

Peace and love toyou all my friends! You have affirmed me so many times! I will forever be grateful for your words of wisdom.


been there done that; i too wonder what you do if it will work out for him and new victim. but everyone here keeps saying it will not work out for them. i think a big part of it is cause they get bored and need excitment, which after a while in a relationship it gets mundane for them and they start thinking what else is out there that is better. i can see how my ex would feel like this after a while.but he is like a cling on he wants the status of being a couple rather than look like a loser and be single, so who knows i too dont want him to be happy, i know this is wrong but that is the truth of how i feel.i can really relate to your comen ti also think that even though i am no contact and dont call him at all other woman will be ringing him so maybe the new victim will click on eventually. i hope so .

Ox Drover

Jules, to “not want him to be happy” is a very normal response, and quite frankly, I do not think it is possible for them to be “happy” in the sense that we can be happy.

Happiness to me is a side effect of living a stable, good life. Their lives are always chaotic, and at times they have “glee” when they put one over on someone, or anger when they don’t, but “happy?” I am not sure that they can comprehend happiness as we see it any more than they can “love”—they sometimes I think equate “love” with “ownership” or “getting what they want” but we know that is not the definition of love.

If I stood before you and said a word in Arabic, and you had no idea what it meant in Arabic because you didn’t speak that language, you might try to understand what I was saying, by looking at what I was doing or pointing at when I kept saying it over and over. A CONCEPT as “vague” as love is more difficult to comprehend than say “water” or “dog” so if I was saying “love” in Arabic, and hugging myself, or making kissing sounds etc trying to demonstrate what I was saying by my actions, you still might not get it. I think they learn to “pronounce” the word, make the sound, but they NEVER GET THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE WORD AND NURTURING AND CARING. Love is an ACT, or a series of actions it is NOT ONLY A ‘ SQUISHY FEELING”—they may experience LUST and equate it with “love” or they may feel “ownership” and equate that with love, but they never get the concept of LOVE AS AN ACT.

As Robert Hare said, “they can learn the words but not the tune” they just can’t get it. He mentioned one P woman who said “Yes, of course I love my kids” but it never dawned on her that LOVING THEM MEANT FEEDING THEM. (Again, love is an ACT)

I was discussing the passage in the Bible with a minister friend of mine and he gave me a big break through, both emotionally and spiritually. I asked him “How can you LOVE YOUR ENEMIES?” He told me that LOVE in that context is an ACT and means to “be kind to them” rather than vengeful.

I also discussed “forgive those that persecute you” and what does “forgiveness” mean. I came to see that “forgiveness” does NOT = reestablishment of trust or the relationship. YOu can forgive someone (get the bitterness out of your own heart) but that does not mean that you must trust them. Trust is earned, not automatically given with “forgiveness.” Forgiveness is us not being bitter within ourselves, it has nothing to do with reestablishing the abusive relationship, or whether or not they repent, etc.

My mother had raised me to believe that in order to please God and her, I had to “pretend none of this ever happened” when someone did something unacceptable to me or someone else. Well, DENIAL does NOT = forgiveness.

There is a good thread here on what constitutes an “Apology” and it is not “well, that’s unpleasant and I want to think positive thoughts, let’s just pretend none of this happened and start over.” That’s a quote from my P-by-proxy Enabling mother a few days after the arrest of the Ps, after she had punished me when I had tried to prevent the Ps from ripping her off and killing me. How can you reestablish a trusting relationship with ANYONE who has discounted you to the extent that my mother did me? Who discarded and dismissed and fought you tooth and nail, and then refuses to acknowledge that they did anything wrong, but continue to blame their behavior on you? Mother isn’t a P, but she is so deeply into the enabling behavior that she is behaving as a P, so what is the difference in one that BEHAVES as a P because they have no conscience and one that BEHAVES as a P because they are in DENIAL and so imbedded in dysfunctional behavior that they cannot acknowledge it? The behavior is the same in the end, the results are the same, they will not change, and you cannot trust them. The ONLY viable option is No Contact, or such limited contact that there is NO relationship.

To me, forgiving them for “being what they are” is the only way to deal with it, get the bitterness out of my soul. And, I know it is difficult and I backk slide when I am triggered, because I do not yet have the “reserve strength” to always keep myself in check emotionally, though I am at least keeping my BEHAVIOR in check, as I did last night when I suddenly ran into my X-BF-P at an auction in my part of the country when he lives 400 miles away…I maintained behavioral NC, but certainly not emotional NC because I sat there and worried that he had come there to do damage to me, like his last GF whose house he burned, or some other nasty thing. Especially when he actually SAT directly in front of me though there were plenty of seats elsewhere. I thought of 1000 things I WANTED to say to him, things I wanted to SCREAM at him for everyone in the room to hear. But I controlled my impulses to do so.

I did call home though and have security tightened on my farm, guard dogs chained by the aircraft hangar to sound an alarm, or if released, to run off an intruder, and the gate from the road locked, and my son D on alert for signs of anyone intruding. It still made me paranoid.


Thanks Jules for commenting on my post. Seems like a penpal thing here more than [email protected] on topic but I would assume everyone having been victimized must go through hell when he finds a new woman and justs plugs her right into your spot, right into the promises he made you. I guess, jules, we do fall in love with the fantasy. The promises. The dream that he was the answer those secret prayers. And i know the new woman and the ones before me felt that way, but knowing what he is hasn’t helped me as much as other women who just say screw him and move on. Do you ever ask yourself why you care? I think, as my friend said, is because we don’t like to see the bad people win. And the socios win. They skip through life without the pain of regret, heartbreak, obsession. They use people and I don’t want someone who destroys women to ever be happy. That’s it. So i guess we have to get to the point where his happiness, or lack of it, is no concern of ours….indifference. Jules you and I will get there. But damn, it sure takes a long time. Peace.


been there and oxD; thank you guys i got something out of both coments .been there; i know i am getting there but its hard as hell, he has totally replaced me and she is even a look alike me wethr a coincidence i dont know but i saw a photo and yes same features as me. i think i care because i loved him i really did, even though it was not returned and as ox dover says they wont be truely happy cause they cant feel real love even if they want to. his version of love is like puppy love like a teenager feels and a form of owning you, to fill in a part of his life, but not loving you as a person who you are, other wise they would not leave if they really did. i like you dont want a user to be happy and espec not one that used me. the worst part o f his using me happened after he left and thats what hurt me the most he couldnt just let me be he still was trying to hurt me, and thats the part that hurt the most. its not like you just say oh it didnt work out and move on its not like the other relationships that fail for us its totally different, the confusion, the using, the betrayal. thats why we dont just bounce back the way we might of before with other people. i my self had never been betrayed sexualy before this guy so i think that is a big part i am trying to get over, and he knows i have never been un faithful, he knew this would really hurt me. i am totally no contact i dont call, see him or anything unless we bump into each other which hasnt happened yet. but my mind does go there not as much but sometimes so still dealing with this. oxD: i am gald you held it together when you saw him . did he speake to you what did you do then, just wondering cause i often think what i would do if i saw my ex face to face like that. thnks for the notes on forgiveness, do you have to tell them you forgive them. i dont like carrying around the hatered for him but its just there i am not that sort of person to hate anyone but its different for him. it is some consolation that he will not feel happy. the proof is there tha t he never loved me the way i experience love is that he left me, and he replaced me pretty quickly, he burries himself so deep in the new relationship he doesnt have to think of what happened between us, and what he did this is how he gets over it ive seen it. i still get the paranoia you talk of too if i think he is trying to contact i panic a bit but as far as i know he hasnt, because that would be show ing me he cares and he cant do that. he seems to have indiffernce to me so i might as well take a note out of his book. keep on keeping one . i am concentrating on me now. thank you both again.


Dear Jules, there are some people on here who so mirror my experiences – and you are certainly one of the main ones. Not only did my exN manipulate me, but after we had many breakups (I reacted to his behaviour and he punished me by withdrawal) and I never asked him back or contacted him, he engineered a get together without ever talking about what happened.

The reason he did that was to punish me some more – like you said, why didnt he just move on. I really loved him too and he said he loved me too many times, but how real that was I dont know. It is horrible to think that if he really loved me he would not have been sleeping with other women during our breaks and when it finally finished he had another one lined up as though I never existed, and he sent a message through someone to tell me – to keep me away and to gloat.

What I question about myself is how I placed so much love into someone who wasnt there for me but I think I invested in his promises and that is so hurtful. I have been betrayed before, but it is the way they do it which is so bad. Like raw meat, they whip up a cocktail of soul emotions and whip you with it – cruel. I have never been unfaithful, but I think they chose nice women, they have perfected their ‘pulling’ practice and are able to hook the best specimens. My ex was able to pull some very stunning women and my predecessor looked like me (this is not uncommon as we have preferred types). But hate is the flip side of love. They are very clumsy and make raw meat out of the situation. My ex almost immediately went onto someone else and I couldnt believe that not only did he avoid any discussion with me he avoided the pain of it. But dont forget Jules that they cannot run away they take it all with them and it accumulates like a rotten pile.

I know that mine will never contact me, he has too much to explain and I would want explanations and he is indifferent and I am curious to what he has told his current girlfriend about me and i would like to meet her to tell her the real truths of what he is like. They leave such a mess behind them.

It really does get better. But lets be honest Jules, we dont want that kind of destructive fake love that hangs on a thread all the time – we are worth more than that. I am so pleased he is behind me – I am the lucky one now – not his new girlfriend she has all that crap to come because I know that after the honeymoon period when he has drawn her into his lair, he will start messing with her mind, body and soul – and I feel sorry for any woman who comes in his path. He should come with a Health Warning. Keep brave dear Jules, you will be healed and you will look back and realise that although this part is painful, it will pass and you will do better with your life.

Ox Drover

Dear Jules,

To answer your question about forgiveness, NO you don’t have to tell them you forgive them, the forgiveness is not for THEIR benefit it is for YOURS–and the “forgiveness” will not come over night or even all at once I don’t think, but more over a period of time,, a little at a time, until one day you will sort of have an “Ah Ha” moment and realize that you don’t feel bitter at them any more. And, sometimes something will trigger you, and you will be back to square 1 again, but it does get better.

I can’t say that I’m 100%, but I am WORKING on it. The first time a couple of years ago that I saw my XBF-P it didn’t bother me as much if any at all. But, I have been through two years of hell since then, and am having some “down days” and it was THEN that he popped into view unexpectedly IN MY BACK YARD so to speak, so it happened at a moment I was already down, and weaker than I have been, so it “got to me” more than it would have even two weeks ago.

He spoke to me but I did not return his greeting, and in fact, pretended he wasn’t even there. I could tell he was uncomfortable and seeing me was as much a suprise for him as it was for me I think. The fact that he chose seats in front of us I think means he wanted me to talk to him, but NO way.

He likes to pretend to be “friends” with all his x-GFs, which to him means “we’re not a couple, but I still get to have sex with you sometimes when I can’t get any anywhere else.”

Being BITTER against them, hating them, etc. all that does is to give them “rented rooms” in our hearts and souls….until we can overcome those negative emotions and feelings, we can’t heal because THEY ARE STILL WITH US, just a “thought away”—I don’t want them “living in my head” with me for the rest of my life.


bev; i thank you for writing, and yes i hear you that our experiences are very similar.i do feel like things are getting better i am not getting hurt cause of not seeing or being in contact with him. so that is a plus. i also feel a little bit better each day. but do have bad days like all of us do . i also feel sorry for his new partner and i think things will go wrong eventually, he cant help himself and his past tends to catch up with him. i am trying to be brave and thanks for saying that. you are so right they choose very carefully they choose good woman trustworthy woman. i just dont want this experience with him to stunt me, i want to achieve more things in life and grow in different ways. i hope you are doing well, after everything i send you good wishes. i know and agree with everything you just said. thank you .


oxd; thank you for that i thought the forgiveness was for us not them so i understand. mine also likes to pretend to be friends with exs i think to use us as well. i am still trying to get him out of my mind its slow. i was married once to an alcoholic and now i think he was a s path too, it took me a long time to forgett about him but i did, so i keep remembering i did it before i can do it again. so i will work on not being bitter. i hope when i bump into my ex i have a big spunky new man with me i think that will help, just joking would be good though. i know if i do see him he will try to be friendly also like your s did. why would i want to be friendly with him after all he did to me. thanks again for your support ox d.

Ox Drover


I intended to answer your post yesterday but had difficulty getting online. Welcome.

The people on this post DO UNDERSTAND your feelings, most of us have BEEN THERE…sometimes for years and years, sometimes for shorter periods of time, but the Ps sunk their hooks into us. Our friends as a general rule didn’t understand either, and one thing I quickly learned was that talking to people who have not experienced such a “hook” themselves, they just don’t “get it”–this is not a “normal’ break up. We are solidly HOOKED, with the hook not just in our lip like afish that can be unhooked and released back into the water virtually unharmed, but SWALLOWED WHOLE, down into our “guts” where taking it out leaves great painful wounds.

You have come to a place of healing and learning and learning and healing, support, comfort and empathy. You are most welcome here. ((((hugs)))))


Been there done that:

“But I fear maybe their life will be the wonderful one that he promised me. I miss the fantasy and can’t seem to grasp that it was a lie today.
Anyone else go through this?”

I definitely felt that I had been promised a long-term relationship even though it was all fantasy on his part.

I also felt envious of the other woman (his godson’s mother) when I found out that he had taken her on family vacations and family functions while I stayed home.

I work in the same office as my S. and I often overhear him on the phone with his female friends. I still feel envious of them and resentful that he took so much of my time and empathy and crushed the hope that I had for a future together.

I realize that I don’t want to be part of the life that he has, but I hate thinking that he really didn’t love me at all and only used me financially, sexually and emotionally. I hate that he will replace me so easily. I am going to have a difficult time trusting another man after what I have been through.


There are some very good articles on Cyberpaths/EPOC which explain very clearly how we were hoodwinked and how understandable that was. I still ‘kick myself’ on occasions, but I never knew about predatory people with personality disorder and not being of the manipulative type, it would not have occured to me. Having been brought up in London, I would say that I am quite savvy and there arent many people who get one over me and I do not naively trust people. I am kicking myself, because whilst he was confusing me, I was reacting to it, like under a magician’s spell. He wasnt particularly intelligent, but I have to acknowledge his effects on human behaviour – like the way he regulated his ‘presence’ to make himself look (important and wanted)like the prize – very clever. OxD I enjoyed reading your article about your observations on animal behaviour – very interesting. I am counting my lucky stars that I only gave him a year of my life, but it has been more because of the healing time.


Yes hummingbird, I am going through that one. I just posted recently how I had gotten over him, then I find myself taking steps backwards, thinking about him. Then I thought today, why am I still thinking about him – it is because he made himself out to be that special person that he was going to be there for me. But it was all words, words without action. Just looking on EPOC, there is an article about betrayal and I think we all share that particular hurt as being the worst. But not all men are predators, I am not going to fling myself into a relationship so readily if I have another, I will be going at it very very slowly remembering that the damage that can be done in a short space of time takes alot of healing.

Ox Drover


The more I think about animal behavior, social structures, how they are trained by humans, or resist training, the status within a social group of animals and how it is maintained and established, etc. the more I see that HUMANS have some of these same ways of interacting–we may wear clothing instead of hair, but a good many things are biologically important and we don’t really think about it. Sexual attraction is one of those things–body shape, and apparent good health, etc. are all “attractive” in a sexual way for an evolutionary purpose–procreation.

I’ve read some interesting things on WHY a young woman is more “attractive” to me than us older gals (if sex is basicly all the guy is looking for, but even if he is seeking a companion/mate as well) Their bodies give off the “attractiveness” of FERTILITY or at least hte appearnace of it.

The “sexual addiction” that seems to be part of many P’s operating system, with multiple women, etc. would go along with an evolutionary way of spreading his genes to as many women as possible. The deception he uses to accomplish this I think is a learned way of accomplishing what is geneticly encoded. With no conscience and no or little “bonding” to women, he is free to persue his evolutionary destiny of spreading his genes.

So I think the genetics and the environment work together in the Ps, and those of us that “bond” to other humans BOND to them and their deceptions, find the sexuality attractive, and bonding, and boom! We are HOOKED up to a P emotionally and he moves on, leaving us devestated. Our genetic, plus our learning and bonding make us the perfect victim/volunteers so we aren’t just “fighting” “good sense” we are fighting our own genetic programming as well. We are having to go counter intuitive to our biological conditioning to bond. We know it is painful (and we see the red flags and convince ourselves they aren’t significant) but because we are so strongly bonded, we stay and stay and stay. The same way that a “chemically dependent” addict stays with the substance even though it costs them in all sorts of ways—the highs are SO GOOD that in order to keep them they would endure any LEVEL OF LOW. We are bonded/addicted to the Highs that the Ps provide and we will go through almost ANY level of lows just on the chance to have another “high”–and they keep holding out the S#it-covered carrot (as Aloha says) and we keep reaching for it—no matter how bad it stinks.


OxDrover and Beverly:

It is like an addiction to these Ps. They manipulate us and make empty promises that we just keep believing.

It felt better having a significant other that had issues than to not have anyone in my life. I even accepted his explanation that this woman that went on his vacation was just a close friend of the family. He just conveniently forgot to mention that she was was with him on the cruise.
Omission of that information is the same as lying at least to me.

Getting over the control that he had over me has been difficult. Since I see him at work daily, I have to try to get along professionally but remain detached personally.

The highs were great. We vacationed together every summer for the past four years, mainly with me picking up the tab. He seemed very caring and loving but he had a lot of cell phone calls even when we were away.

All the times on weekends when he claimed that his grandchildren were visiting and not to call, I am sure that he was entertaining the other woman. I would rather he just told me that he was interested in someone else and let me go than maintain two or maybe more relationships. Why do they feel this is necessary except as an ego boost?

Ox Drover


First I think it is the sexual addiction to have as big a “harem” as he can accumulate. My X-BF had a wife for 32 yrs, he also had one mistress for 8 yrs, another one in another town, off and on for 5 yrs, etc etc and anytime he could get a “freebie” he was on it like a cat on a mouse.

Of course he used his “mariage”to stall all these women off from a committed relationship–“Yes, I love you dear, but I just couldn’t leave old Sue,….it would hurt her too bad…” PUKE

Then after “Sue” dumped him after finding out for sure about the other women, he rushed to the 8-yr mistress and she had moved on, gotten a “full time BF” and didn’t drop the BF for the P, so he was FURIOUS that she h ad “insulted” him. Go figure! So, he immediately came after me with the big RUSH, and I fell for it. I casually knew the X-GF through my living history group but not well, until after my split from the P.

I was able to fill in the blanks and get the “whole picture” mostly after the fact, but found out about all the story as X-GF did know about the other women, etc. in fact, she knew many of them. So at least AFTER the fact, I did get the whole story and I think that helped me disconnect from him. I still wanted (and want) what I thought we had, but I know it is NOT POSSIBLE WITH HIM. When I saw him the other night and the anger welled up, at the balls of him coming into my TERRITORY and then having the guts to speak to me….made me paranoid since I know he burned the X-GF’s house and I woldn’t put it past him to do nasty stuff to me either, as I definitely gave him Narcissistic “Injury” when I kicked him to the curb. It was not a pretty sight. (Or sound)

I knew his x-wife casually too, and had some long interesting conversations with her about him. She had known I was dating him. She knew a few of his GFs as well, and several other women he is just “friends” with via the living history group but has not had “relationships” or sex with them. The wife thought these women were also “mistresses” but they weren’t (and I know that for a fact).

Whoever he traps for his “respectable” wife or live-in GF will just be there for making a “home” for him, and waiting on him hand and foot when he isn’t off tapping his harem. He will be generaous with money with her (he was with all his GFs except me and I REFUSED to accept his “gifts”) because I like my financial independence and don’t want to feel that someone is “buying” me. Just a quirk of my “raising.”

I’m actually glad that he lives far away and I haven’t run into him except one time at an event and Iknew he would be there so was prepared…this not being prepared and him showing up shocked the crap out of me and threw me into defensive mode with plenty of paranoia.

After the situation last year with the Trojan Horse P stalking me with the intention of killing me, I was VERY scared, terrified in fact, and so am a bit “skittish” around known Ps that I know are capable of violence and revenge. I guess I am sort of like the wildebeaste that barely escaped the lion, any time I see a lion I either go into fight or flight. If I can’t flee, I am prepared to turn and stand my ground, and I won’t go down wihtout a fight.



I think that you are right about the Ps wanting or needing to accumulate of harem. I guess that way they have something to fall back on if one of their girlfriends gets wise. Did it do you any good talking to any of these women? I need to know if the godson’s mother is aware of his philandering.

My P has four godchildren and is very involved with all four godmothers. They call him for advice or whatever. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t been involved with all of them at one time or another.

He told me when we had the argument that he was going to Vegas with his family in August and that he was not taking anyone else. He had a check copy that included payment for “Vegas trip with Peggy” on it. I cannot believe what a liar he is.

Maybe someday these Ps will receive retribution for all the pain that they have caused others. It is a shame that a person can live such a hypocritical life.

Ox Drover

I have no way to know except guess that his OW knows or what she knows, but even if she did “know” she is probably so deep iin the fog that it wouldn’t do any good to try to wise her up.

I saw “signs” and red flags and I wasn’t interested in knowing. Even after the fact, it did help a bit to talk to the other women, it validated it for me, BUT on the other hand it can backfire on you and keep you from letting go.

Bottom line too is that it doesn’t matter if he cheated with 1 or a 1000, he is a cheat. He did not love you. He can’t love you. So after enough info to validate me, I haven’t spoken to them again–what’s the point.?


I think you are right. It really serves no purpose to keep trying to find explanations when there are none. The Ps in this world keep hurting people over and over with no remorse. When one well dries up, they find another.

I think that it is difficult to realize that I fell in love with a dream and a promise and not with the real person I was involved with. I had no idea that this type of person existed and seems to strive in our society.

The Ps are like predators and the rest of us are prey to them. They take and take and then leave the empty carcass behind.



I just read your post. I do hope you will continue to read here. I hate to think of anyone suffering as you are now and I do understand. I know how hard it is to step out of the nightmare.

It weird how we can put a stop to it by going No Contact and then the nightmare seems to continue in our minds for a long time after you begin NC. You have to read and read and read until you accept that: 1 this wasn’t your fault, 2. No, he is not having a normal relationship with someone else and 3. No, it’s not you that’s bringing this out of him and 4. HE WILL NOT EVER CHANGE.

The list goes on.

I’ve said it before but if it might help you I will say it again… accepting and fully grasping that you are dealing with a Sociopath is a big part of letting go and beginning to heal.

If you are honest with yourself… there really isn’t anything great that you are letting go of… you are letting go of a fantasy… a life he has painted in your mind but clearly on you are not living that fantasy life. If you were, you would not be searching the Internet for answers about the nightmare you are in.

I hope you will find the words here that will help you turn the corner, get on the OTHER bus… slip out the back Jack.. blah blah… and REJOIN LIFE and FIND YOUR JOY AGAIN.

As for me… I am SO DONE WITH BAD MAN… I just come here to hold my hand out… maybe even reach into the FOG and see if I can pull anyone out! I live for that, honestly.




We have all been living a dream or maybe a nightmare would best describe it. We all plan for the future and I was planning a life with the man who I thought that I loved. This man that I fell in love with was just an illusion as I am sure that it was with the rest of you.

These Ps are incapable of real love and feelings. They take and take from us financially and emotionally until there is nothing left. They give us nothing in return except for empty promises and a lot of pain.

I am hoping to find real joy again in my life. I know it will not be with this P who used my kindness and caring for his own gain and not mine.

We all need to heal and talking about it with others in similar circumstances has helped me.


How do you let go? For 6 months this man has been living with me on and off and living with another woman. Sleeping with me even when he wasn’t living with me. I paid his car payments, his car deductible after an accident, wired him cash when he was on the road. I’m down about $10,000 with receipts, not counting all the cash. I just found out about the other woman when she called me. When I confronted him, he told me she was a liar and he wanted to be with me. I know now that that was because she kicked him out. Now she wants him back. I told him I’d gladly have him out of my life but that he has to give me my money back or I’ll seek legal options. He’s good. He told me he didn’t steal the money from me that I gladly gave it to him and there is nothing I can do. Part of me wants to put up signs all over town with his picture on it outing him as the conman he is. I destroyed my credit to borrow money to keep him afloat – I quit seeing my family because of him – I’ve lost friendships. My heart is broken. I still love him after all this.

Ox Drover

DEar Muckross,

I am sorry that you have had this pain and trouble in your life. The best advice I can give you is to continue to read and learn here, to post–scream, rant, rave if that will help let off the steam, but the best part is that people here DO UNDERSTAND because we have been there—we too were conned by the psychopaths, we too loved them, we too had difficulty letting go, getting over the feelings we had for them, the anger, the bitterness, the sadness of loss.

Most of your family and friends, if my experience holds true, will truly not understand or empathize with you, and may just say “get over it” but I know and others here know that it isn’t so easy. But it is the ONLY way you can heal.

Yes, you did “cheerfully” give him the money and you had best just write that off as “tuition” in the school of hard knocks. Even if he COULD pay you, which I doubt, he would take it as a “point of dishonor” to NOT PAY YOU, because he wants to use you, he does NOT LOVE YOU, he has NEVER loved you, he CANNOT love you–and nothing that you do, no matter how “nice” you are, how much you give him, none of it will or can make him love you.

He is sort of like a “pet snake” no matter how nice you are, how much you love it, or how much you pet it, it will NOT GROW FUR, become a puppy or love you back. It can’t. It is a snake. He is a psychopath—he has the same lack of ability to love that a snake does. AND HE WILL BITE YOU WITHOUT ANY REMORSE. In fact, a psychopath ENJOYS biting you, inflicting pain, putting one over on you, etc.

Read here, learn and LEARN AND LEARN. You will and can heal, but it will take time, self examination and working through the pain. You will most likely be angry at yourself for “being so stupid”—we all were, and that self anger is part of the healing process.

The quickest way, and in the end, the easiest way is to go NO CONTACT WITH HIM. That means NONE. No text messages, no phone calls, no talking to him at all. Just cut him off. Change your number, don’t read e mails. and DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS. He is a liar. HE IS A LIE. Everything he said to you is a LIE. He is out to use you and you must keep him away, even when you want to talk to him so badly you feel like you can’t breathe. In stead, come here and talk to us, post here, read here—and even if you just want to tell him to go to hell—STOP, DON’T CONTACT HIM. Cut him off. Don’t let him suck you back into the FOG. He is TOXIC and will distort your thinking, your mind and your heart. It will only cause the pain to stay longer and be worse.

Think of him as a drug addiction—you must stay away from the drug or you will start “using” again, and even if he held you in his arms and declared “undying love” for you, it is just a fantasy, just like the drug. ((((hugs))))Muckross, you are STRONG, you have just forgotten that, TAKE ;BACK YOUR POWER, you can do it! Read M. L. Gallager’s posts, I think they will touch a nerve in you, they explain things so well.



You will get over loving him when you fully accept what he is and realize what you love is not there. Most likely, you love how he made you feel once or twice… a high like no other. Many of us have described moments with our sociopaths as “intoxicating.” Does this ring a bell for you?

What happens after that high of intoxification.. when everything looks better than it is and you think you are having more fun than you really are and you think you are dancing and singing like a rock star? You fall on your face, your world is spinning, you barf your guts out and you fill with regrets and embarassment the next day.

Getting to the “next day” is just another step in the healing and there is a a good “day” after that where you forgive yourself and you move on. This is the day where you thank God you are not being abused and exploited. In Zen Buddhism, I have seen it written like this… “appreciating your non-tooth-ache-ness.” It might never occur to you to be aware and appreciative of a non-toothache until after your nerves are banging and you want someone to cut your head off because you tooth hurts so bad. Do you understand what I am talking about?

You are still intoxicated to some degree. It will wear off when you check in with reality that you are being robbed blind, exploited, duped. I am willing to bet that NOTHING that is happening to you has anything to do with real love and healthy relationship.

My esteem was down when I met Bad Man… alarmingly down. I put up with treatment now that I can’t believe I did. I wanted love so bad that I would endure exploitation and abuse just for those few moments of a quick rush.. a high.

I know we have our own paths to walk to get to the healing. There is a short cut though… if anyone is brave enough to take it. When your mind goes to fantasy land of how wonderful it would all be if you could just get this man to clean up his act and start treating you like… STOP!

Every time you go to fantasy land… STOP.


There are two conclusions to life with a Sociopath.

1. Lose a whole lot.


Which one would you like?


I mean this with all due respect and kindness. I have been there.



About the money. Kiss it goodbye. He will use this to toy with you. If he ever does send you ANYTHING… the emotional cost of getting the money back will be way too high and it will keep you engaged with him which is all he wants.


Even if he gets “cancer” do not send him money. Sociopaths have been known to have all kinds of terrible diseases which miraculously have been cured by MONEY!

There are people here at LF that will support you with advice and encouragement.. just be prepared that we will tell you the truth over and over and over until you get it and we WILL outlast your Sociopath.

I promise you that.


Don’t let him take any more from you than he already has. My Sociopath took thousands of dollars from me for various financial needs: his mother’s prescriptions, his home repair, his PET scans for his pancreas (tumor) , a car, etc. I know that I will never see this money. I am working two jobs to try to keep up the payments on my credit cards, etc.

He also had another woman who he took on a cruise with his family.

They pull you into a fantasy world where you think that they are the perfect mate. It turns out to be the exact opposite. These sociopaths are hypocritical and lie about everything.

I got to the point where I couldn’t believe anything he said. I couldn’t tell the truth from the lies.


Oxdrover, Aloha
and all the other beautiful women in here who have suffered…
I am so thankful to have found this website and you.
Its been since last Mon 5 May that i told the … can I use the word … a..hole what i thought of him. I felt a great sense of relief when I hung up the phone. I sent text messages thousands of them. and I do think of him a lot. BUT I HATE HIM I WILL NEVER EVER GO BACK.. now the jigsaw puzzle is fitting in. The man is sick, his daughter is the same. I propped him up for YEARS. I pumped his ego FOR YEARS. BOY IS HE GONNA MISS ME …see …..NO HE WONT MISS ME COZ he has already another victim !!!!!!! So she will find out, and she is much more vocal than me.. that will be interesting.. anyway I dont care .. I cant change the past, but the future is mine. I am educating EVERYONE around me about sociopaths, most dont GET IT….THATS so frustrating !!!
but I dont care, I know what it is and I will damn well not let it ever happen again. ONE F….ING BIG LIE… thats what I cant get over.. THAT I BELIEVED over and over and over again. I am seeing a specialist psychologist next week who specialises in Post Trauma Stress .. it will be a long road, but I will do it. Now I know wht to look for. thank you so much .. i read all the posts every day every night and it keeps me strong. Im over that illiterate, bankrupt, alcoholic, sociopath.I AM OVER THAT ILLITERATE BANKRUPT ALCOHOLIC SOCIOPATH
LYING PRICK.. thats my mantra .. and it works … until there is a reminder, and then I say to myself IT WAS A LIE NOTHING HE SAID TO ME WAS TRUE, F….K HIM…. and i carry on..
take care girls….. (((((HUGS))))))))))))))

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