From time to time, Lovefraud receives email from people who identify themselves as sociopaths. Here’s one that came in recently:
I have read your website, and i am not impressed. You give the impression that all sociopaths are murderers and haters, incapable of loving, and should be thrown away as a tragedy to the human race. You do not mention the difference between a high-functioning sociopath and a low-functioning sociopath. I happen to be a high-functioning sociopath, and your website is all lies and misguided information, and whats worse, you gain money out of creating a stigma of us, and abusing the victims of certain relationships, which although do happen, aren’t generally what high functioning sociopaths are about. Who’s the one with no conscience? I would say you.
I have no emotion, i use logic to understand what is happening. I mimic emotions of others because i know that it is important to my survival that i display emotion or otherwise people become scared. Is that really so bad? Yes, perhaps i play mind games with people because i grow so bored, but that doesn’t really harm them does it? People get over it. I don’t go out murdering puppies and kittens, and laugh like a comic villain. I may have mistreated some animals, but never with the intent of doing so. I may have hurt some people, but they get over it. I’m the one who has to pay for their hurt, they threaten my survival when they retaliate. I flirt with people a lot, but so do a lot of people, not just sociopaths. I do have some emotion, even if it is limited. I can pretend to have an emotion to convince myself. I act simply to feel.
You ’empaths’ only have emotions so that you are scared of us, when all we are are bored, and confused harmless cheeky rascals. And to point out, adult sociopaths usually stop being sociopaths after the age of 30, so its not ‘incurable’ as soon as they become an adult. You try living in a world that is black and white, where any emotion has to be forced, and you have to copy others expression, and you’re always so very bored, because i am, so bored. You can’t blame us for needing some excitement, to survive we must have a way out of our boredom. You know nothing about what you say. We have a soul, we just can’t access it as easily as everyone else.
Born with the genes
The person who wrote this letter, I was able to determine, is an attractive young woman. I’ll ignore her mischaracterizations of Lovefraud—we are obviously well aware that sociopaths are not all murderers, because most of us were involved with sociopaths who didn’t kill anyone. Beyond that, her letter provides a good insight into the reality of sociopaths, with all their rationalizations and excuses.
Even so, I do feel sorry for them.
Sociopathy is highly genetic, and no sociopaths asked to be born they way they are. No sociopaths asked for manipulative parents or uncaring home environments that pushed them further along the path towards disorder. That’s the hand they were dealt, and it’s truly sad.
Even sadder is the fact that they don’t know it’s sad. It’s like someone born blind, who doesn’t comprehend vision. Or someone born deaf, who can’t understand what music may be. They were born with a limited or nonexistent ability to love, and whatever love they did have was probably snuffed out by their own disordered parents. Instead, they have an overactive appetite for power and control.
Like this young woman, sociopaths are aware that they are different. But most of them don’t care. In fact, they take pride in their ability to exercise power, and look down on the rest of us. We are merely marks to be exploited.
Lessen the disorder
This young woman also said that people stop being sociopaths at the age of 30. There is no scientific evidence that sociopathy can be cured. The best we can usually hope for is that sociopaths will decide to comply with the mores of society, if only because it’s in their own self-interest. They do have the power to decide that following the rules is more convenient and causes them less aggravation than violating them.
Can sociopaths actually lessen their disorder? Dr. Liane Leedom is hopeful, although she recognizes that it is extremely difficult. The fact is that many brain characteristics and functions contribute to sociopathy, and the human brain is not static. Beliefs and behaviors can cause chemical and structural changes in the brain. So if sociopaths were really committed to changing their ideas, and engaged in activities that fostered empathy, their brain structures could change. An individual willing to attempt this would probably have a lesser degree of disorder to begin with, so maybe he or she would already have seeds of caring buried within, seeds that could grow into a degree of empathy.
Inaccessible soul
I was struck by the last sentence of the letter:
We have a soul, we just can’t access it as easily as everyone else.
I actually think that the young woman is right about this. The souls of sociopaths are buried under so much negativity—anger, hatred, aggression, coldness, envy and the desire for power—that the souls can’t be felt.
I don’t think those of us who have been damaged by sociopaths should attempt to help them. Our first duty is to ourselves, to our own health and recovery. But I believe that we’re all connected, and maybe in whatever communication we may have with a higher power, we can pray for them. It might take a long time, but maybe it will do some good.
Even if we don’t see any improvement in particular individuals, praying will help ourselves. Bitterness only prolongs our own misery and harms our own health. Perhaps offering prayers, from a safe distance, will make a difference all the way around.
Oxy and Constantine – of course i know that it was a red flag! It was the weirdest thing at the time – the driver was SO nice, and when she got out of the car to go to an ATM, i , in my stunned state apologized. (yo, big ol flag again. i have never apologized to anyone for someone esles behaviour in my life) At the time it took me a few months to put it all together – we only saw each once or twice a month (she was MUCH worse on her home turff) and the cog dis. cause by who she purported to be and what some her actions said took a while to sort through.
Oxy, I too believe that the spiritual and religious abuse is the worst. She raised her first me the last time i saw her and that was nowhere near as scarring.
Contantine – this is really interesting to me: ‘At any rate, One Joy, I know the type you describe exceedingly well. Narcissism mixed with neurotic traits, and a generally unbalanced and superficial character ”“ often camouflaged by the jargon of “pseudo-spirituality” and “self-realization,” etc. The only thing worse than such an unsavory and grating personality, is an outright spath. And even then, perhaps only by the smallest of margins! ‘
I had ‘diagnosed’ her as narcissistic after i did some reading on personality disorders when a friend suggested the might be BPD. I have been learning about n on LF – i was at first very preoccupied with the spath – but have been delving into n as I get a bit more space in my mind. I see that my father is an n, and my sib. She has other problems also, and I didn’t realize that this was part of the paradigm – she was just mean and self centred. Always has been. For the last few years I have said of my father when other’s asked me if I had talked to him lately, ‘love too, but his head is so far up his *** he can’t hear me.’ Well,my language is ‘colourful’, and I am crude at times, but it so accurately describes what to trying to interact with him is like.
Dear One/Joy, Yep I’ve been told I am “colorful” as well. LOL ROTFLMAO
One Joy,
I don’t think my mother used religious abuse. I know she prays every night. This is what confused me so much. How can she pray and still be evil? Then I remembered my spath’s prayer. I think they see God as something akin to santa claus.
Thinking about how shallow and two dimensional they are, And how lacking in values they are, it reminded me of how I used to pray as a child. I thought God was an old man with a beard. I didn’t think He was a punishing God, but I did hope to convince Him to do things for me. Just like spath did in his prayer. Now I get how so many priests are pedophiles and how the hypocrites can preach on Sundays and fleece the sheep, the rest of the week.
It takes a special kind of shallowness and hypocrisy to be able to believe in God and wear Him as a beard at the same time. (that was a kind of pun. LOL!)
Sky,
LOL Quote you: It takes a special kind of shallowness and hypocrisy to be able to believe in God and wear Him as a beard at the same time. (that was a kind of pun. LOL!)
Yep and actually a very witty pun!
It sums up the pedophile ex preacher/teacher exactly, believes in God but wears him as a beard! ABSOLUTELY!
I don’t think that being a psychopath or even being without a conscience precludes a person “believing” in God, but even lack of empathy is “relational” and NOT “absolute”—“psychopaths” are not all equal, there are some that are much worse than others.
Even some psychopaths are more narcissistic than others, or at least outwardly display it more. Some are “high functioning” and some are literally retarded mentally…some are very charming and SLICK and some are very rude, crude, and uncouth. The “perfect” example to me of a slick and smooth psychopath is Bill Clinton, who was referred to in Arkansas as “slick Willy” and boy was he ever SLICK…he makes me want to PUKE! Charlie Manson was just as “slick” in his own way even though he was not “high functioning” he convinced others to do his dirty work for him even though most people would have said he was “uncouth and crude.” Manson of course would never have made it to the White House where “Slick Willy” had the IQ and the education and polish to do so, but it just depends on circumstances and what their resources are in terms of education and brains and opportunities. Look at Bernie Madoff.
Someone up here asked, on one LF blog or another, if there is a “list” of psychopaths somewhere on line. Look at the TOP TEN PROFILES on womansavers.com, read them all. Under one profile (and I cannot say who it is up here), the comment section became a “list” of other men, mostly profiled on other sites than womansavers.com, but a few of them were also profiled on womansavers.com .. there you HAVE your “list” of MORE males to avoid .. and I wil bet that MOST of them are SPATHS, too! The thing is, mine went after the Married Woman while living with me, and, at the time, I believe that his sex/porn addiction was in FULL SWING, as, meanwhile, he also advertised for NSA sex with bi men. It was the THIRD married woman he’d honked after (one each, at least, while married to each wife before me, and one while with me), so she is in denial if she thinks he wanted anything more from her than sex, her money, her property. What resulted for me was near clinical depression. Like one LF blogger said up here..my ultimate revenge will be when the woman after me discovers how mentally ill he really is. I just want to know, what makes a woman so DESPERATE that she has to leave her husband to go after another woman’s guy, when he has LIVED with that woman for years. I never in my life went after a guy who was “spoken for” .. I guess she must be a SPATH, like him, was not raised with morals. Had his soon-to-be 2nd wife, in my early stages with him, given me the “heads up” on him, believe-you-me, I WOULD have listened to her, and exited the relationship, immediately. She was not so kind, either, as she wanted to continue using him for the occasional jobs she “glad-handed” to him (but of course! Part of his income! From her! He never could let go of old flames..typical mindset of polygamists, polyamorists, bigamists, and males with mental issues!) He employed his croc tears (crock-of-sheet tears .. man oh man was he good at Instant Water Works) again, in a phone call to me, after he’d left my home..asked me, “are you going to hurt yourself?” .. He wished! And he STILL wouldn’t fess up to what had actually transpired with him and a woman who, for two years, pretended to be my friend, for whom he left me. I did not learn about who the Other Woman was until more than a year after he left. A friend of mine, whose live-in lover had been in one of my bands (she said he treated her like a sycophant ..was a commitment phobe, as well as an alcoholic..ANOTHER ONE) .. a very pretty, petite redhead and single mother, with a son in her custody, told me that she and her (shady) partner had double dated with my ex and the woman he left me for. She told me that she thought the woman was a “troll”..couldn’t understand why he’d left me when she thought I was a good person “full of light”. So, that is how I got SOME of my closure. He still does not realize how many others were in my “camp”..He never will..but I will make sure that he is BLACKLISTED by new & old friends of mine, who reside throughout the state in which he lives, and many of them, if not most, are musicians like myself. I did so so that he cannot infiltrate anyone else’s social circles to perp on anyone else, because his “M.O.” is to social climb. Actually, I think HE is a sycophant, sick opportunist who also “infiltrated” my musical social circles, just like I think he did his first wife’s (her brother was an excellent musician, married, before he died, to the female friend, who was also possibly a g/f at one time, after her hubby died, to the 2nd husband of the woman he left me for).. you see, he liked to “fish” in the same “small pond” of women, leapfrog from one woman to the next, using each for her social circle to do his predation. All these SPATHS..they seem, each, like a cross-breed of male whore and pimp. Pimp because too many of them want a “leg up” on the purses of women..so that the women can face the stressful world of work so they don’t have to. And “whores”.. well, because I think ALL gigalos are male whores. To me, a REAL man is a guy who is able to PROTECT and take care of someone more than just himself, whether his “family” to be protected is a wife with children, or a significant other, who cannot bear children. My father was that kind of man. They are RARE, indeed. I just couldn’t understand it..why was it that my three brothers all married honest/kind women..and all of them..each of them, is still with that first and only wife, to this day. None of them are any prettier/smarter than I am. Yet..why had it been difficult (before the guy I am with now, for >a decade) to find a decent man/husband? That is how the SPATHS leave women feeling. What finally gave me hope, for completing my life’s dream, were two things. First, I knew that my best friend’s father (I knew her since jr. high), after his only wife died, his next woman, with whom he spent the rest of his life, was single..had never married..had never had children..and he SOUGHT such a woman for his next partner. He left her property and a large part of his estate when he died. He TOOK CARE OF HER. Then, my Significant Other has an aunt who married well, twice. Her first husband died. She never had children, either. Her husbands NEVER cheated on her. She gave me hope that barren women CAN, and often DO, lead full, successful lives. She was a gardener, like me. You see, both of those men..my best friend’s father, and the husbands of my S.O.’s aunt..all of them were taught to RESPECT women, no matter if they are BARREN or not, no matter if they had DIFFICULTY trying to conceive, no matter if they were BEYOND THE AGE of bearing children. None of those men sought women out as “better” because they were “breeders”! And no, I am not one of those members of the society “Childless By Choice”, though there exists a great support network for those women, too.
I keep one male friend, because he is an excellent musician and has worked with me, in the past..worked with me after my ex left me. I hope he can learn something from me. He cheated on his wife twice, admittedly, each time with a different woman. He feels my pain about my ex..paraphrased me..said he knew that the “worst” part of it must have been my ex’s deceit. Yet, when I tried to explain my ex’s habit of porn buying/viewing, he said, “that’s just a guy thing—No! It ISN’T a healthy “guy thing”..if anyone were to read Andrea Dworkin’s writings on the damage that porn does to women [read “What Andrea Dworkin got right” http://www.anotherthink.com/contents/essays_on_faith/20050425_what_andrea_dworkin_got_right.html%5D, they would know otherwise! I also know that “karma” has returned to my male musician friend, who said that. I well know that the 2nd woman he cheated on his wife with gave him much trouble. I don’t even know if they are still together (the mistress and he.)
Zim
Someone up here asked, on one LF blog or another, if there is a “list” of psychopaths somewhere on line. Look at the TOP TEN PROFILES on womansavers.com, read them all. Under one profile (and I cannot say who it is up here), the comment section became a “list” of other men, mostly profiled on other sites than womansavers.com, but a few of them were also profiled on womansavers.com .. there you HAVE your “list” of MORE males to avoid .. and I wil bet that MOST of them are SPATHS, too! The thing is, mine went after the Married Woman while living with me, and, at the time, I believe that his sex/porn addiction was in FULL SWING, as, meanwhile, he also advertised for NSA sex with bi men. It was the THIRD married woman he’d honked after (one each, at least, while married to each wife before me, and one while with me), so she is in denial if she thinks he wanted anything more from her than sex, her money, her property. What resulted for me was near clinical depression. Like one LF blogger said up here..my ultimate revenge will be when the woman after me discovers how mentally ill he really is. I just want to know, what makes a woman so DESPERATE that she has to leave her husband to go after another woman’s guy, when he has LIVED with that woman for years. I never in my life went after a guy who was “spoken for” .. I guess she must be a SPATH, like him, was not raised with morals. Had his soon-to-be 2nd wife, in my early stages with him, given me the “heads up” on him, believe-you-me, I WOULD have listened to her, and exited the relationship, immediately. She was not so kind, either, as she wanted to continue using him for the occasional jobs she “glad-handed” to him (but of course! Part of his income! From her! He never could let go of old flames..typical mindset of polygamists, polyamorists, bigamists, and males with mental issues!) He employed his croc tears (crock-of-sheet tears .. man oh man was he good at Instant Water Works) again, in a phone call to me, after he’d left my home..asked me, “are you going to hurt yourself?” .. He wished! And he STILL wouldn’t fess up to what had actually transpired with him and a woman who, for two years, pretended to be my friend, for whom he left me. I did not learn about who the Other Woman was until more than a year after he left. A friend of mine, whose live-in lover had been in one of my bands (she said he treated her like a sycophant ..was a commitment phobe, as well as an alcoholic..ANOTHER ONE) .. a very pretty, petite redhead and single mother, with a son in her custody, told me that she and her (shady) partner had double dated with my ex and the woman he left me for. She told me that she thought the woman was a “troll”..couldn’t understand why he’d left me when she thought I was a good person “full of light”. So, that is how I got SOME of my closure. He still does not realize how many others were in my “camp”..He never will..but I will make sure that he is BLACKLISTED by new & old friends of mine, who reside throughout the state in which he lives, and many of them, if not most, are musicians like myself. I did so so that he cannot infiltrate anyone else’s social circles to perp on anyone else, because his “M.O.” is to social climb. Actually, I think HE is a sycophant, sick opportunist who also “infiltrated” my musical social circles, just like I think he did his first wife’s (her brother was an excellent musician, married, before he died, to the female friend, who was also possibly a g/f at one time, after her hubby died, to the 2nd husband of the woman he left me for).. you see, he liked to “fish” in the same “small pond” of women, leapfrog from one woman to the next, using each for her social circle to do his predation. All these SPATHS..they seem, each, like a cross-breed of male whore and pimp. Pimp because too many of them want a “leg up” on the purses of women..so that the women can face the stressful world of work so they don’t have to. And “whores”.. well, because I think ALL gigalos are male whores. To me, a REAL man is a guy who is able to PROTECT and take care of someone more than just himself, whether his “family” to be protected is a wife with children, or a significant other, who cannot bear children. My father was that kind of man. They are RARE, indeed. I just couldn’t understand it..why was it that my three brothers all married honest/kind women..and all of them..each of them, is still with that first and only wife, to this day. None of them are any prettier/smarter than I am. Yet..why had it been difficult (before the guy I am with now, for >a decade) to find a decent man/husband? That is how the SPATHS leave women feeling. What finally gave me hope, for completing my life’s dream, were two things. First, I knew that my best friend’s father (I knew her since jr. high), after his only wife died, his next woman, with whom he spent the rest of his life, was single..had never married..had never had children..and he SOUGHT such a woman for his next partner. He left her property and a large part of his estate when he died. He TOOK CARE OF HER. Then, my Significant Other has an aunt who married well, twice. Her first husband died. She never had children, either. Her husbands NEVER cheated on her. She gave me hope that barren women CAN, and often DO, lead full, successful lives. She was a gardener, like me. You see, both of those men..my best friend’s father, and the husbands of my S.O.’s aunt..all of them were taught to RESPECT women, no matter if they are BARREN or not, no matter if they had DIFFICULTY trying to conceive, no matter if they were BEYOND THE AGE of bearing children. None of those men sought women out as “better” because they were “breeders”! And no, I am not one of those members of the society “Childless By Choice”, though there exists a great support network for those women, too.
I keep one male friend, because he is an excellent musician and has worked with me, in the past..worked with me after my ex left me. I hope he can learn something from me. He cheated on his wife twice, admittedly, each time with a different woman. He feels my pain about my ex..paraphrased me..said he knew that the “worst” part of it must have been my ex’s deceit. Yet, when I tried to explain my ex’s habit of porn buying/viewing, he said, “that’s just a guy thing—No! It ISN’T a healthy “guy thing”..if anyone were to read Andrea Dworkin’s writings on the damage that porn does to women [read “What Andrea Dworkin got right” http://www.anotherthink.com/contents/essays_on_faith/20050425_what_andrea_dworkin_got_right.html%5D, they would know otherwise! I also know that “karma” has returned to my male musician friend, who said that. I well know that the 2nd woman he cheated on his wife with gave him much trouble. I don’t even know if they are still together (the mistress and he.)
Zim
Sky – to be the child of someone pretending to pray is a sort of religious abuse – it undermines the underpinnings of real spirituality and religiosity.
I think that with my n ex, it served her well. i was in part interested in her because she purported to be buddhist. different lineage and school though, and that’s where the ho-ha started. her lama was better than mine, mine was a racist (i had suggested that i think he is, and that this has caused me all kinds of pain in my heart , and i told her that and she used it against me), she didn’t like how friendly and close knit my sangha was (that’s that sit on the sidelines at the back of the room thing again – and the keep everyone separate so that i can string them along and no one sees my face…hmmm, she’s sounding kinda spathy here), she didn’t like that they ate and drank in the gompa (they had nowhere else to),…blah de blah blah blah.
i remember this one incident when she was mad at one of her pre one joy shags and said that she was going to ‘tell’ this woman to be mindful. i was so stunned. i suggested another approach. i was at her place for a few days (one time when i went to see her to get back together with her) and had made an appt to go get a massage with someone she had seen a few times. I was so shocked and i told the massage person what she said, and the massage person said, ‘she’s a bully’. It hurt my heart. I wanted so much to believe in her goodness.
very nice pun btw!
Zimzoom: Whenever a guy goes after a married woman 9 out of 10 times he’s a spath.
A normal guy would fear the woman’s husband. Such as a gun,beating, knife, etc.
Spaths don’t have that fear because they don’t consider the consequences.
My spath targeted married women all the time and he kept loaded rifles under the bed to protect him from his victims husbands as well as the women he screwed over.