Editor’s note: The following story was sent to Lovefraud by a man whom we’ll call “Anthony.” He believes his ex-wife is a sociopath. This is part 4 of 4. The story refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.
Read: Part 1 – Part 2 – Part 3
Trying to make sense of the insanity:
How could someone behave this way?
At this point I was totally bewildered and completely devastated. Nothing at all made sense to me. I remembered all of the strange events that happened throughout our “relationship,” and I knew that they all tied together somehow, but even the events themselves were so bizarre, that my mind just could not make sense of them. I knew that she was a very sick woman, that’s all.
When I talked to a neighbor a few days after she left, I even told them that there was something very different about this “breakup.” It was nothing like a normal breakup, but it was so much more painful than anything I had ever experienced before. I could not figure out why, so I just thought that it was because I loved her so much. It was not until months later when I began to learn about narcissism, psychopathy, and covert abuse that I learned why I was in such incredible pain. I had been in an abusive relationship for 3 years, and did not even realize it. I was so hooked on her, emotionally addicted, and determined to show her how much I loved her, so that when she left, there was so much more there above and beyond the loss of a relationship, which actually never existed in the first place. It was this addiction and the emotional abuse of the past 3 years that caused the much deeper pain during the breakup. It’s not an easy concept to accept and to truly understand, but it is what happens, and it was the reason for very difficult time that I had at this point.
Trying to make sense of the insanity:
Discovery of Narcissism
It was several months after she left, and I was still clueless to what had happened to me, and still knew nothing about why it happened. I was visiting a friend, and we were talking about this. When I explained to her that I finally got hard evidence that my wife was cheating in her office during the workday, and when I lovingly (well, as lovingly as possible under those circumstances) confronted her, she turned it around on me, called me crazy, and still denied it. My friend’s response was, “She will never admit it. She’s a narcissist!” I remembered that this was the very thing that my attorney said when we talked months earlier, but I dismissed it then, because I had the wrong impression of what a narcissist really is.
I thought I knew what a narcissist was, but when I began to really read about it, I was shocked to find that it explained much of what I had experienced. I thought I had finally found it! I learned about the defense mechanisms like projection, then understood exactly why she accused me of the very things that I suspected she might be doing, and I learned that she actually told me many things about her own thoughts and actions when she accused me of these things. So much about my strange experience suddenly wasn’t totally strange! I went from total confusion, to a point where things actually began to make sense. What an incredible day that was for me. I cannot begin to explain how it felt to finally be able to make sense of the hell that I had experienced in this, and to start to resolve the cognitive dissonance that I had been carrying around for years.
Although much of this disorder fit my wife’s behavior, there were some things about Narcissism that did not fit her at all. This is sometimes normal because these disorders are not black and white, all or nothing, but the traits fall on a continuum. Some are more pronounced in some people, and not in others. Actually, there is a grouping of disorders that are similar, called cluster b disorders, including Anti Social Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, and Histrionic Personality Disorder. This is the official grouping by the American Psychological Association. These disorders share similar traits, and the disordered share similar coping mechanisms.
I had heard about this cluster in the past, but like most people, knew little about it. While much of my problem was explained through narcissism, there were some basic things about narcissism that did not fit my wife at all. Mostly, narcissists are totally focused on their image, so they want the very best of anything that will make them look good. This could be cars, houses, clothes, or other things. They often brag about accomplishment and\or events that never really existed, or about credentials that they do not actually have. They want to be seen with powerful and successful people to make them look good. None of this fit my wife. She drove an old van, and while she was very attractive and spent money on her hair and nails at times, she did not put much importance on having nice new clothes, or the best of anything, really. I had trouble with this, because it showed that she may not actually be a narcissist, or at least not to such a degree, but still, most of the strange events were clearly explained by this disorder, including the bizarre projections, the covert abuse, the mind games, and relationship phases of idealization, devaluing, and finally discarding. Narcissists are also known for coldly smearing their victim’s names and reputations in the end, in an attempt to shift the focus and blame off of themselves.
Trying to make sense of the insanity:
Discovery of Psychopathy
So while I studied Narcissism, and was learning a great deal about what happened to me, I came across the website Lovefraud.com. This site was created by Donna Andersen, who was victimized by a man that she believes is a sociopath. As I read the stories, so much of them mirrored my own story, and the traits of a sociopath matched my wife’s perfectly. Sociopaths are also known as psychopaths, and the disorder is in the cluster b disorders, but now the APA calls them Anti-Social Personality Disorder. They are clustered together with NPD (narcissistic Personality Disorder). They are all closely related, and as far as I’m concerned (and so many others who have been victimized and nearly destroyed by these sick predators), it’s pure evil.
Now I finally knew exactly what happened to me. I began to learn why it happened to me, also. These people target their victims because of weaknesses that they quickly find in the potential target. They have spent their entire lives putting on facades and preying upon others, so they become very skilled at manipulation, and at quickly evaluating a potential target, to determine where their weaknesses are. They then exploit those weaknesses as they put on whatever facade is needed to gain whatever they seek from the victim. They are masters of this game, because they have had to be in order to survive, and because they have perfected this game over their entire lifetime.
I began reading everything that I could find on the subject, and before it was over, I probably owned and read a dozen of the top rated books about psychopathy, by authors like Dr. Robert Hare, Harvey Cleckly, Sandra Brown, and Thomas Sheridan. In addition, I found some excellent websites, and probably spent hundreds of hours studying over the 18 months that I spent learning about this disorder. It was such a liberating thing to gain understanding after being in a total fog for so long. I finally knew, I clearly understood, and I have learned things that are truly priceless. Yes, I was pretty beat up, and yes, I went through absolute hell, but I finally see it. I will never have to go back to that ugly place again. I know what they are, I know how they operate, and I know how many of them are actually out there, everywhere. I’m no longer easy prey, and I hope to educate as many others as possible about this. The only way to fight this is to shine the light of truth on it, and expose it.
Understanding the Bizarre Behaviors:
Projection
Projection is a defense mechanism that is used by the disordered to give relief on a sub conscience level for bad feelings that are the result of their own thoughts and actions. To relieve themselves of those bad or uncomfortable feelings, they project their own defects onto others. The result is that they blame others for exactly what they themselves are thinking and doing. Being on the receiving end of these projections is truly a bizarre thing to experience.
I’m still a little unclear about this, because the disordered person has no conscience or empathy at all. They do not care at all about others. How then do they feel uncomfortable feelings about what they are thinking and doing? I am not sure, but I know that I experienced this with my disordered person on probably 5 or 6 different occasions. These occasions were times when we were having emotional discussions about our relationship, she was therefore under stress, and she would accuse me of things that I felt that she must actually be thinking or may have done herself. I had good reason to think that she may be thinking or feeling these things, yet she accused me of those very things, and completely without merit. It was baffling to me.
I saw her complete lack of empathy, and her actions clearly showed that she did not care about how her behavior would crush me. She actually enjoyed getting over on me, and doing what she was behind my back. Why then would she need to use projection in those moments when discussions were heating up about things between us not being “right?” I do not understand this, but there is no doubt that, when we were arguing about the things that I felt were very wrong with our “relationship,” and she was under stress, she projected onto me on many occasions. Not understanding what was happening, but definitely understanding that something very odd was taking place, I could only make mental notes, and try to make sense of something so bizarre.
One of the first times that I can remember that projection was used by my wife was when we were having a heated discussion about her daughter and how I thought that our family was out of order, and she said something like, “you never loved me. I think you wanted to love me, but you don’t know how.” And she also said, “You only married me to prove something to your ex-wife,” and “This whole marriage is a lie.”
I remember stopping and trying to figure how something like this could come out of her mouth when I constantly made every effort to show her how much she meant to me. I deeply loved her, and I made a conscience effort to show her, almost on a daily basis. I knew that her accusations were completely base-less, and even absurd considering how I treated her. I knew that there was something significant about these exchanges, but I just could not make sense of them. I figured that she must have been thinking and feeling these exact things, but was completely puzzled as to what was really happening. If she were thinking and feeling these things, why in the world would she accuse me of them? It just made no sense!
These exchanges were the oddest things for me. I am a very logical person, with a background in computer science, so I tried to make sense of this, but from a logical point of view. Not having a clue about what I was dealing with, I just could not understand what was happening. The truth is, this disorder and everything about it, is anything but logical. It is completely illogical, and we are dealing with people who are actually insane. They are not out of touch with reality (a psychotic), but they absolutely are insane. You can never figure out what is happening while you are trying to figure it out from a normal person’s perspective. Not until you understand that you are actually dealing with insanity, will you even begin to get your mind around what is happening. It is truly bizarre.
Understanding the Bizarre Behaviors:
Duping Delight
This was one of the most hurtful aspects of my “relationship” with this sick woman, and until a few months ago, I had not yet learned of the term to describe it. I suspected throughout our “relationship” that I knew what was happening, and as time went on, more cracks in her pot became visible, and I began to slowly put it all together. I became more and more convinced that things were not at all as they seemed. If that was not enough to deal with, there were many times that I felt that she was actually covertly rubbing it in my face that she was getting over on me, carrying on an illicit and disgusting sexual affair, and I was clueless (or at least she thought that I was). These instances clearly demonstrate how these people think, how they view life as nothing more than a game, and how they enjoy destroying others in their quest for dominance, power, and control. These instances are clear proof to me that what I was dealing with was a very sick and a very evil woman, and it is hard to even get my mind around the fact that this woman is this way. Had I not experienced it for myself, I would probably not believe it. This is a very beautiful woman on the outside, but a rotting soul on the inside.
Duping delight is the term to describe one of the tools used by these sick people, and I believe that this tool alone shows that what we are dealing with is actually pure evil. There is no poor judgment, or bad choices here. When someone is such a cold and sick person to manipulate and deceive someone, then to make a sport of it for their own sense of power, control, and amusement, they clearly demonstrate purely evil behavior. Nothing anybody can say will ever change my mind about this.
One of the first instances of this that I can remember is around several conversations that we had about fitness. She was never an active woman when I knew her, and a typical evening for her was to sit in front of the TV and watch any of her 15 favorite TV shows. She was very close to a couch potato, and I wanted us to be a little healthier. I explained that I wanted to grow old with her, and I framed the discussions as positively as possible, hoping to encourage her to be more active with me. Most of the time, we sat on the couch and watched TV, hardly ever walked around the neighborhood, and only rode our brand new bikes once or twice.
During one of these conversations when I was gently nudging her to do something like take a walk to get us a little exercise, she told me that she got exercise during the day at her office. She said that she closed the door in the middle of the day, and exercised. Now this was towards the end, when I was pretty sure that she was seriously deceiving me, and may be having sex in her office during the day (I had eliminated all other possibilities). I played along, though, laughing at the thought of her doing push-ups in her office, saying something to the effect that I’d love to be a fly on the wall to see something so funny. I thought about what she said, and I could not believe that she’d think that I would believe that she’d close her door and exercise in her office during the work day, when she was a total couch potato for the entire time that I was around her, and all the way back since I met her. It’s just ludicrous that someone would even think that story was even close to plausible.
Just weeks later, I found out, without a shred of doubt, that the exercise that she was getting was mostly from behind as she let her boss use her like a piece of trash. The fact that she was doing it was not enough power and excitement for her, she had to take her sick games to the next level. She had to covertly rub it in my face that she was screwing in her office, and getting away with it, while her loving, faithful, and clueless husband was being made the idiot, or at least she thought so.
One trait of a psychopath is that they are easily bored, and this is a large part of why they are ALL sexually promiscuous: the need for excitement. I think it is also worth pointing out that they carry out their “duping delight” games not only as an exhibit of dominance and control, but also as simple entertainment for themselves. I bet she almost wet her paints when I made the comment about being a fly on the wall while she “got her exercise,” but I know she wasn’t laughing when I exposed her for the cheating, lying, deceitful woman that she is.
Another good example of duping delight happened one evening while we were being couch potatoes, and watching Jeopardy. This episode was about the game of golf. Now to our knowledge, she had never played the game. None of her past (known) boyfriends were golfers, nor were her husbands. Still, as the questions were read, she answered many of them correctly, and with smugness, as she played her game, and toyed with me. She knew all about the game of golf, the swings, the different clubs, when to use them, scoring, and so on. I played along, asking her how she knew all of this, and she just explained it away as luck or something. Again, this was towards the end, so I knew what she was likely doing with me, and figured that she had cheated with at least one man who was a golfer. Low and behold, when I busted her, the married trash that had been doing her in her office for years was, you guessed it, and avid golfer. Gee, what a coincidence. I think not.
These two examples show clearly how very sick and depraved these people really are. It’s not enough to do what they do to innocent, loving, and trusting people. They have to take it up a few notches with their sick and twisted games.
How anybody can say that this is not absolute evil is beyond me. Sam Vaknin (Malignant Self Love) says that narcissist are not evil. Tornados and tigers hurt people, just like narcissists, and they are not evil. They are only doing what tornados and tigers do. It only stands to reason, then, that narcissists, just doing what narcissists do, like tigers or tornados, are not evil either. I guess we could apply this very logic to someone else, lets say, Adolf Hitler. Hitler just did want anyone like Hitler would do. He wasn’t evil, he was just doing what he does. It’s a ridiculous argument.
These people know exactly what they are doing. They know very well that they are destroying families, and innocent lives, but it never bothers them one bit, because they lack the very things that make us human to begin with: empathy and the ability to love. Just because they do not care (it does not bother them in the slightest), does not make what they do any less evil. Furthermore, considering how they ACTUALLY ENJOY what they are doing, which is clearly demonstrated in their “duping delight,” when someone tries to call this anything less than absolute evil, it almost makes me furious!
If this experience has taught me one thing, it is that evil exists in this world, not only in things that are blatantly obvious, like someone flying an airplane into a building full of innocent people, but even more so, in people and places that most would never expect to find it.
Understanding the Bizarre Behaviors:
Idealization, Devaluing, and Discarding
Another common theme with many of the cluster b disordered individuals (NPD, ASPD, HPD, BPD), is that relationships with these people all follow the same progression. There are three phases that make up this relational progression: idealization, devaluing, and discarding.
During the idealization phase, the disordered is treating their partner as if they are the best thing that they have ever known. This is at least partly because they are in the process of hooking the victim. They are very skilled at sizing up a victim, quickly learning what the person wants and needs, and then becoming exactly what is needed to ensure that the victim is hooked. This is important, because it is this bond to the disordered that will ensure that the victim remains once the abuse starts in the next phases of the relationship, the devaluing phase.
Immediately after the victim is hooked, the disordered will begin to devalue the victim. This may be a gradual process, and it will likely begin with little comments at opportune times, when the victim is made to feel less-then in some way, or made to feel not quite good enough. Other ways that the disordered may devalue the victim is through the use of other abusive tools of the trade used by the disordered. These tools include manipulation, projection, gaslighting (making the victim think that they are crazy, and that the problems are because of them), duping delight, dishonesty (lies, some of them for no other reason that it is entertaining to them), subtle put downs, deception, and deceit.
For someone who has not been through this, one might think, “I’d pack my bags as soon as someone began to treat me this way!” I would think that very same thing. What needs to be understood is that these tactics are never overtly used, in blatant, obvious ways. Disordered people are very skilled at this game, so they know how to be very subtle in what they are doing, and they are able to blend enough good in the mix so that the victim usually does not even notice what is happening to them. What ends up happening in the “relationship”, is that the victim begins trying to compensate and correct, to restore the “relationship” to what “it was” in the beginning. The only problem is that, the victim does not yet know that their entire “relationship” was never real to begin with, and therefore can never be “restored” to its original state. Still, the victim begins buying into the lies, and jumping through hoops, trying to appease the disordered in some way. This is all in an effort to resurrect the perfect person and “relationship” that they once had.
The final stage of relationships with the disordered is brought about in one of two cases. The first case is when the victim no longer of any use to the predator, usually because they have either gotten what they wanted, or because whatever they wanted has been all used up. The other case is when the predator is found out, the mask is removed, and the game is up. Either way, the victim is callously discarded like yesterday’s trash. This is a very difficult thing to experience, and it often drives the victim to the point of suicide.
This relational progression took place in my “relationship” in the same way that it did in all of the other cases that I have read about. It is amazing how similar all of our stories are. The details may be different, but the stories are almost identical, and there are hundreds of them, probably many times more, but most are not talked about.
The discarding was the most incredibly painful experience. I honestly thought we loved and cared for each other. When I discovered the hard evidence of what she was doing, and when I still offered mercy, forgiveness, and a chance to make it all right, but instead, got it all turned around on me, more lies and deceit to shift the blame, and coldly discarded, it was emotional pain like nothing I have ever experienced.
It is only by God’s grace that I made it through alive. Had I not had Him, and the key people that He put in my path, I am certain that I would have at least taken my own life, possibly much more. When I hear of any of the very common tragedies in the news today, I understand exactly why these things are taking place. The world is not a nice place, but is full of evil, much of it well hidden in places that one would never suspect, and it is going to continue to get worse. It is this evil that is destroying so much good in the world, and these sick people are a huge part of the problem.
Understanding the Bizarre Behaviors:
The Smear Campaign
When one of these people is either found out, or when they have completely used up the victim, and thus have discarded them, the smear campaign is sure to follow. This is because they must maintain cover for what they are, out of the basic need for survival. In order to do this, blame must be shifted. For the victim, this is like the final nails in their coffin.
Try to imagine going through a “relationship” with one of these sick people, being covertly abused, having been idealized, then slowly devalued for years, and finally discarded like a worthless piece of trash once you prove that this person, whom you genuinely and deeply loved, had been doing something like screwing their boss the entire time. Imagine the depth of pain and confusion that you’d feel at that time (believe me, it is more painful than you can imaging).
Now try to imagine how you would feel, if you were in this state, and you also had to deal with this person, whom you loved and cherished, and whom you thought loved you, begin to spread lies about you to your friends, family, and neighbors, to explain the breakup. These people are ruthless, and they lie as easily as they breathe, so they will not hesitate to do this, because it serves their purpose. That is the only thing that ever matters to them. It is completely devastating to the victim.
God only knows what this woman told people to explain what happened, but I could see that she told them something. I did not understand what was happening until months later, when I learned about psychopathy, and read the many other stories of this very thing happening. Still, I knew that she was spreading these lies, and completely denying the truth. My neighbors would no longer let their daughters have sleep-overs with my daughters at our house, and when we were in mediation for property division, the mediator came back in from her room saying that she’s getting 2 completely different stories about what happened. I did not even ask the mediator what she was being told.
It really doesn’t matter what she had been saying. It’s all a pack of lies from a severely disordered woman. I know that she is going to pay for what she did to me and my children. God is not mocked, and she mocked Him throughout this entire “relationship” and marriage, and throughout the process to end it. I know that I did my part to try to help her, and I deeply and genuinely loved her. I showed unconditional love and mercy, and I know that God was pleased with that. I was so very good to her, but she repaid my good with evil, all the way to the very end. It may be a game to her now, but it won’t be forever. If these people even have a soul, when their number is up, they will be reminded of the lives that they destroyed while they played their games.
Anthony – I went through the same discovery starting with a comment to me about my husband’s narcissism. I read about narcissism and found amazing parallels, but it was when I read a link about sociopaths that everything clicked and started to shift my paradigm of thinking. Total shock to rethink all the bizarre behavior under the category of “insane” and “disordered.”
I was raised by a sociopath mother (on a scale of 1 to 10 she was a 20). And then I married a sociopath husband because (looking back from what I’ve learned) of love bombing and pity play. My mother particularly liked the duping and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing…..
“When someone is such a cold and sick person to manipulate and deceive someone, then to make a sport of it for their own sense of power, control, and amusement, they clearly demonstrate purely evil behavior. Nothing anybody can say will ever change my mind about this.”
The behavior truly is bizarre and the way you wrote about your experience provides such helpful clarifications about many aspects of what we go through. It is soooo true that a break up or loss or discard with a sociopath is pain beyond the normal scope of experience.
I made my “discovery” in Aug 2009 and have been learning since then about the abuse by my mother and my husband. The new perspective of seeing them through the absolutely correct lens of sociopath is priceless, but the loss is so tough for me and I’m still a bit disoriented.
Thank you again for writing your story and lessons learned. So well-written and and logically stepping through all the pieces that we all share on this site. I’m saving a copy of this in my “think straight” file on my computer to refer to when I need it.
Also – I read in your comments that you are in a much better place now with a wonderful person in your life. So happy to hear that update – best wishes.
I was shocked when I read this awesome article because if you turn this story around and write “ex boyfriend” (who I lived with for 10 months) instead of “ex wife”, that was my life IN DETAIL … right down to him working for the state (of Louisiana) and going in to work an hour early every day!
I agree the pain from that break up was the worst I had ever felt from any experience in my entire life because my ex bf was the sweetest, kindest most patient man I had ever known. However, the facade covered a dead interior and the pain he inflicted by his lack of remorse nor empathy for any pain he inflicted weighed far heavier than the pleasure of his charm.
I have been set free by knowing the truth about what I had been dealing with for almost a year and a half after I read this article. Thank you so much for sharing this. I finally found the liberation I needed.
This was a mindboggling read. Bits were true to my story, bits not. I guess there are infinite blends that link lack of compassion, empathy and authenticity in people. Im sorry that you experienced that level of pain.No one should have to.
You are right describing that cluster of disorders, axis 2 in the DSM IV manual. I work in mental health, Ive seen the very best and the very worst of people. One caution I would add though is around borderline personality disorders, they are not so heartless usually. Self absorbed yes. Mostly from a childhood of abuse and neglect or extreme privilege (makes me grateful I never got everything I wanted, or even close to that!). They do cause drama and mayhem, but from emotional pain, if anything they have BIG emotions. After working with people with this for so long, I have a lot of compassion for them. For the unceasing pain and demanding emptiness, that is only ever eased momentarily, that creates their self absorption. They are dreadfully hard to live with, not for the faint hearted, but they are capable of love of a type. And of ethics. Like all people there are some evil ones, of course there are. I just didn’t want a blanket belief about all of them.
In my own ’path'(etic) experience, like you Anthony, I ignored the twanging gut. I don’t know why, looking back it was giving very clear signals. Never again! Not only that, but stuff I knew from the work I do, wth?? I was a lot more vulnerable then, fresh out of a long relationship I hadn’t wanted to leave, new city, new job. I was a ripe sweet raspberry ready for devouring I think.
I remember afterwards, feeling bitter about men and making a conscious decision that I wouldn’t do that, that I wouldn’t let him take that too. It took a bit of doing, sometimes I had to stand with my foot jammed painfully in the door of openness shouting in my head about the abundant goodness I saw much more of every day than the evil. But I did it and I have peace in my heart, and light in my eyes (mostly, still get the dark encroaching, makes me like the light so much more though 🙂 )
Good for you making your way through the murky sucking quagmire of (insert favourite yukky stuff here, mine is crap) to an understanding and much better place. I wish you joy, blessings and authentic love 🙂
aotearoaangel – nice to see you! And thank your for what you said about borderline personality disorder. When the behavior comes from pain, yes, compassion is appropriate – although perhaps from a distance.
Thank you Donna, and yes distance and firm boundaries! All too easy to get sucked into the drama and chaos. Thank you for your writings and sharing, have helped me make sense of not only him but me and my response and vulnerability too. Took a while to forgive myself and to stop feeling ashamed of being so foolish. But I got off lightly than many people here. The scars get a bit itchy from time to time.
Anthony, thank you for sharing such a painful and devastating experience. What you said is true about there being many common traits that most sociopaths exhibit in a relationship. Gaslighting, boredom, lying, promiscuity, manipulating, deceiving, the pity play, lack of empathy/guilt, and game playing are all typical behaviors of these creatures. Their motives, however, can be quite different. For example, the spath that wormed her way into my life concentrated her efforts on separating me and my wife, She had a covetous nature that was nothing like I had ever experienced. My wife was her employer for about 7 years, mainly in our residence. I had no clue that I would be used as a pawn in an attempt to ruin my wife’s (and my) life. She had the luxury of studying me for quite a few years and waited for the right moment to “bond” with me when she knew my wife and I were going through a difficult time in our marriage. Her whole goal was to take away those things that she envied about my wife: her marriage, her house, her income, and her family life with our children. I was but a sideshow in what was soon to become a very twisted relationship. Anyway, after a few months, and enough red flags to line a May Day parade, I finally figured out what she was up to. Unfortunately, my brain had already been rewired and I was totally addicted to her. Thus began my long and painful journey toward recovery.
Anthony, your painful experience is so similar to many of our stories with the same pattern. What I find particularly vile about sociopaths is that they will continue to manipulate and deceive their victim until one of two events happens: 1) the victim can no longer provide whatever the sociopath is using them for, be it money or shelter as examples; 2) we expose their mask or come near to exposing their mask. The end is then swift, full of victim blaming and smearing.
Forget what Sam Vaknin says. HE IS A FRAUD. He is a convicted criminal and diagnosed Narcissist. His PdD is in Philosophy not any Medical Science. Humans are not Tigers or Tornados. Functional Humans know right from wrong, truth from lies and their behavior’s effects on others.
He is correct in saying that Narcissists (and all Cluster-Bs) cannot be cured. Therefore, whatever he writes is merely self-centered and income generating.
Donna and others here know far more about these toxic individuals than Sam Vaknin and most real Psychologists and Psychiatrists for that matter. Thank you for sharing your painful story and adding to the body of evidence here to the benefit of all.
Sharing is part of healing.
Vaknin is a diagnosed psychopath, see the documentary I Psychopath. Bob Hare makes an appearance I think, it’s not on my Amazon wish list.
Anthony thank you, thank you. My heart goes out to you. The articulate descriptions of the horrific behaviors as well as your detailed breakdown of the individual components was really appreciated, and shows you have done your homework. Most of you here are far more knowledgable than I am, as I’ve just really begun to educate myself. Please continue to be strong, to protect yourself, and know that by sharing your story you are giving hope and strength to some who desperately need it. As a man myself I think overall we may feel more uncomfortable in sharing our horror stories, and yet I can assure you that you are not alone. There appear to be plenty of evil ones who just happen to be female. While the physical brutality that some of our females here have endured is probably much worse because they also have all the other psychological , emotional, ect., abuses that we have had, the female sociopath is in other ways more powerful. One description I read described the female sociopath as the top predator on the planet. On the tv show ” what would you do if – ?” One episode showed 3 separate people basically stealing a bike in broad daylight, all 3 young people. 1 white male, 1 black male, & 1 attractive female. The first guy got a little resistance, the second quite a bit, someone even called police and intervened. The third probably spawned some new careers as the results showed she was not resisted in any negligible way, and was in fact given assistance to steal the bike by complete strangers who were … Wait for it …. Men. Same show interviewed a professor from a major university who explained the findings of his studies, basically that attractive = good. We as men are hardwired or programmed or whatever to believe this on a very fundamental level. The men on the show seemed almost powerless. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this power over men exploited and used as a weapon against me, and the ease and smoothness in doing so. Masterful. Hang in there my friend, and thank you again.
4light2shine – welcome to Lovefraud. You’ll find a lot of community wisdom here to help you process your experience and escape. People seem to shy away from thinking of women as sociopaths, but as you and Anthony well know, there are female sociopaths, and they are incredibly good at their exploits.
Hi ‘Anthony’, thank you for taking ther time and trouble to write in so much detail about your very destructive and upsetting relationship. I am sorry you have suffered so badly as a result, and obviously you really had high hopes for the marriage and put your wife on a pedestal in many ways early in the relationship. I do feel it is not unusual for her to want to continue communicating with a male friend from work early in your relationship with her (although obviously not for the relating to go further than a friendship) but she had known him already before she met you if I understand you correctly? I also feel it is not unusual to feel uncomfortable speaking to him in front of you on the phone in the early days of your relationship or for you and her not to be invited round to his home as you mentioned you felt if it was an ordinary friendship that this should maybe have been the course it would have taken.
As you mentioned, a lot of previous hurt and deceit obviously makes it difficult for you both to have total confidence in another person in a relationship, and both of you may have a lot of residual pain and some mistrust and emotional baggage from previous relationships.
I at one time thought my husband maybe was Psycopathic or Narcissistic (his Mother is a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist, classic text book symptoms) but he is diagnosed Aspergers syndrome and I have been married to him for 35 + years.
You have experienced high expectations from your relationship and also look at things from a very logical point of view. There is a lot of black and white thinking and much analitical behaviour from yourself (also stemming from your suspicions) but it seems almost as if you were ‘looking’ for the proof, or evidence of a betrayal situation before there was really evidence that it existed to such a degree that it seems it must have been apparent to your partner, which could have changed the emotional response from her sexually,and more as the extent to which you analysed your partner’s activity and life could seem quite persecutory, or may indicate you were feeling paranoid yourself maybe and cause your partner to react in the very angry way that she did when finally confronted and you mentioned also that her behaviour changed at this time and afterwards too..I would say that may possibly be because she felt analysed and a realised there had been a breach of trust in the way you always mistrusted her as shown by the constant invasion of her privacy maybe? What she had been doing herself (having an affair) would not necessarily have changed the way she reacted to the accusation. Not everyone who has a relationship while married is a Psycopath.:)
By your own admittance your wife was not going anywhere else other than where she said she was going when you tracked her movements and you were attending Bible Classes together, so you were doing things together as a couple? I don’t feel she truly exhibits traits of Psycopathy or Narcissism.
I am just wondering what proof you found that she was having a relationship in her office?
Although my relationship with my husband is not in any way a direct comparison, my husband has spent some of the years we have been together accusing me of having affairs with people at my places of work..one even in a car outside our own front window, when being brought home every evening by someone I worked with. These problems have caused me to give up employment and lose career momentum when his insecurities became overwhelming. He would also ring my girlfriend’s phone repeatedly when I was at her house, causing her 11 year old daughter to be constantly woken from her bedtime sleep. This became such a problem over a number of years in many different ways that i stopped seeing my friends altogether because I didn’t want them to be put through his frequent rudeness and inconsideration and he never could see it or stop it. His feelings took priority over anything else and as you will know, isolating their ‘victim’ is part of a Sociopath’s foreplay. My husband tried to build a division between our daughter and my Dad by saying our daughter didn’t give him (my husband) enough love, because he ‘didn’t get a look in ‘because she loved her grandad more than her own dad’ (him). Despite me explaining that because we love one does not mean we don’t have enough love to go around and that the more she was loved, the more she would be able to give love, he still did not relent. Eventually though I am happy to accept his diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome, but some of the behaviours are very similar to some psycopathic traits, but the reasons for them are vastly different.
I know this relationship has deeply hurt you and it does seem to me that you are a more sensitive soul than your wife maybe. I don’t know what others here feel (as most on this group have a lot more experience with Psycopaths and Sociopaths than I myself have maybe, although I do have a brother who is a Psycopath and he does undertake criminal acts of deception and secreted my share of our parents inheritance away and lied to me about it..basically he was showing signs of this condition when only a young child as he would say that it was a ‘Dog eat dog world and he was out to get others before they took advantage of him’ and he was about 10 years old at this time. He was selfish,(as a child, unless it was in his interests to get on the best side of someone for his own gain) cunning and secretive, and would never do a single thing to assist in the home and was never altruistic or showed affection unless to gain something from someone)
Your wife could maybe have been displaying symptoms of insecurity, having had past relationships where she has been cheated upon, and maybe was reluctant to give up on her ‘work mate’ as she didn’t want to put all her trust in one man again (although there could be many reasons why she may have had a relationship at work) and maybe you loved her so much that the pain was greater due to your input into the relationship, your love and high hopes for it.
The fact that you mentioned that your wife didn’t have a desire for a super smart car or purchase a lot of clothes also indicates to me that she does not come across as typically Sociopathic as many have Narcissistic traits in these areas as making a good impression often matters a lot to them.
I am rather curious as to how you discovered that she was having a relationship at her office, but I suppose I will have to just wonder on that one!
I wish you well with future (or current) liasons and hope that you find the love that you surely deserve and thank you for sharing your experiences so candidly. Take care.
4light, what you write is no doubt true, “attractive = good. We as men are hardwired or programmed or whatever to believe this on a very fundamental level. ” But I imagine this holds for women also; it’s well known that people with looks considered normatively desirable in society are granted favourable treatment in workplaces, restaurants, and so on, there are studies on this. So good looking personality disordered people are probably inevitably going to use their looks as part of their ”mask of sanity” as Harvey Cleckley called the false persona that psychopaths present to the world to fit in, avoid detection, and to lure targets.I would imagine they know consciously or simply intuitively that others are likely to respond favourably to them , because of their physical appearance. And they’ll use that ruthlessly, be they man or woman, straight or gay, in the same way as they use love bombing, and sex, to attract and then entrap. We certainly need to think past and through phusical appearances as a society if we want to get to the real truth of someone, to their inner qualities.
This is a very interesting piece of commentary from a man who has been a warden in the prison system, warning future prison officials about dealing with manipulators, Jodi Arias, the murderer, in particular.
Carl ToersBijns
Jodi Arias ~ Master Manipulator?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0g6x3_Ct6g
Published on May 25, 2013
Following the Travis Alexander murder trial one cannot escape the characteristics and personalities involved in this case. This is my own opinion of Jodi Arias’ manipulative skills and how she will attempt to use them inside prison. Thus this is an awareness video for those that will supervise her at Perryville and subject to her deceit and foolishness to take chances as she is definitely a risk taker in nature.
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My comments after viewing…
“Beautiful people are exempt from moral law.”
I have read a lot about sociopaths, but never read something so specific about how they manage to manipulate so skillfully and readily. And she managed to do this with several of the jurors in this trial, unfortunately, in spite of all the evidence. They thought she was a girl gone wrong, a victim of circumstance. They did not recognize her as the predator she is. She has already managed to skillfully manipulate outsiders even from prison. I really do not think it is a coincidence that the psychological expert for the prosecution, Dr. DeMarte, had her home broken into and her LAPTOP stolen on the eve of the trial. She is dangerous, and will be dangerous as long as she lives.
It is critical in relation to Anthony’s story, and the story of other men who have run into beautiful, sociopathic women. As the warden says, they get what they want by APPEARING to bond with you emotionally and psychologically, so you will never suspect that you are being manipulated, and that their only goal is getting something they want from you. This really explains how people are blind-sided by these predators.
That was an interesting watch 7steps. Are most sociopaths good looking? Mine wasn’t but he was very disarming and appeared so disingenuous, like a lost small boy at times. Im so soft as far as people in pain, or apparent pain.
I can still remember, though its four years ago now, the jolt that went right through my soul like a giant earthquake when he finally told me some truth, or at least owned some truly heinous lies. It was like in a single micro moment the whole world was different. I didn’t know where to find solid ground. I remember vomiting, that shock was so big. For a long time after I struggled and struggled to filter what was true and what wasn’t. In the end I realised it didn’t matter, there was no way of telling, I don’t think even he knew any more. So I took it all as lies. That was the safest way. We had a joke in my friend group after, how do you know when Nico is lying, his mouth is moving. Laughing about it made me feel less rocked and less stupid.
The luckiest luckiest thing for me was that he was deported after that dreadful weekend. He didn’t have a visa for here it turned out.
He emailed me for a long time after, saying he would change, I was his true and only love etc etc. Part of me wanted to believe it, but not because I loved him any more, that had died or was in the death throes. As I navel gazed my way back to sanity I realised I wanted it to be true because I felt so stupid. It was my own ego that wanted it. That would have made me stupid x 100 LOL I learned to live with the shame, mostly because my being vulnerable came from the good parts of me, the positive but naïve places. I keep a tighter rein on the inner Pollyanna these days 🙂 AND most importantly trust my intuition, which was clanging like a fire engine at that time.