I write you this letter to explain something to you. You have a serious personality disorder whose very symptoms, paradoxically, may leave you unaware that you have it.
Or”¦you may be “aware” of your disorder in an “intellectual” sense but, consequent to your disorder, you lack appropriate alarm and shame over its expression.
People who do not have your disorder, if they were told they had it (and of its nature), would feel extremely unnerved, shamed, to hear this feedback.
You, on the other hand, neither feel, nor react, with expected levels of uneasiness to learn of your disorder. Your reactions, expressing either calm indifference and striking unperturbedness, or, alternatively, possibly rageful defensiveness, merely add credence to the diagnosis.
You were probably not “born” with this disorder, but it’s also probable that you brought a biological tendency to it, whose eventual emergence your upbringing probably encouraged, or elicited.
It seems likely that histories of abuse, neglect and trauma encourage the development of this disorder in individuals who, like yourself, are prone to it.
It is rare, although not impossible, that this disorder would emerge in its fullblown state from childhoods that are genuinely nurturing, secure, and free of emotional and physical abuse.
Your disorder is called a number of different names that can be confusing, among them sociopath, psychopath, antisocial personality disorder, malignant narcissist, and more informal names. Although there may be some useful distinctions between these terms, the confusion they produce probably exceeds the usefulness of these distinctions.
More important are the common elements between them, which describe a similar phenomenon—a human being like yourself who, while intellectually aware of common standards and laws of “right and wrong,” nonetheless grossly, chronically violates the boundaries and integrity of others with deficient remorse, deficient empathy, a deficient sense of accountability and, typically, with an attitude of contempt or indifference towards the experience, and suffering, of those he’s violated.
You might recognize yourself in this description, but you may not. If you do, as I’ve suggested, your recognition of yourself as having this disorder will produce a notably inappropriate response.
But if you don’t recognize yourself from this description, it’s likely to be a function of more than just your denial. Rather, your failure to see yourself, truly, as a sociopath probably reflects, to an extent, an aforementioned feature of your disorder: I refer again to your deficient empathy, as a consequence of which you are actually incapable of feeling more than superficial, transient concern about, and remorse for, your hurtful impact on others.
It is possible that hurting others is a primary goal, but it’s also likely that hurting others is a byproduct of your primary aim (and pattern) of taking something from others that doesn’t belong to you.
In other words you may, or may not, intentionally seek to hurt others, but in either case your condition leaves you depleted of normal, inhibiting levels of compassion, sympathy and empathy towards others.
Your disorder has other essential features. The reason you can take from people, steal from them—their money, their dignity, sometimes their lives—and suffer so neglibly, if at all, from your abuse of them, is that you do not respect them.
Your condition fundamentally leaves you with a characterological disrespect of others.
You view the world as a competition ground for gratification. People around you are thus players in this metaphorical drama”¦.players from whom your principal inclination is to take, cajole, exploit and manipulate whatever it is that will leave you, not them, in a more comfortable, satiated condition.
You feel that your gratification—your present security, status, satisfaction and entertainment—takes precedence over everyone else’s. Your gratification is simply more important than anything else.
In your mind, you are entitled to the gratification you seek—in whatever forms you presently seek it—even when it costs others a great deal of pain towards which, as we’ve established, you bring a disordered lack of empathy and concern.
This is a very twisted notion—specifically, the conviction that your gratification and its pursuit are virtually your inalienable right—a notion that supports the rationalizing of the chronic expression of your abusive, exploitive attitudes and behaviors towards others.
Finally, this make you an unrepentant boundary violator of others’ space.
I am willing to try and help you in some way, if I can, but as you may, or may not, know your disorder is notoriously unamenable to known treatments. But first I ask that you return to me the forty dollars we both know that you took from my desk drawer last week when I left you alone in my office for half a minute.
You did this once before, and because I had no proof, I could not be 100% certain you stole from me. But this time I counted my money before stepping out of my office, admittedly in case you stole from me again, allowing me proof of your theft.
And so I ask you to admit this when I see you next Tuesday, rather than play the foolish games that are often so indicative of your personality type.
Perhaps we can discuss this letter when I see you, or perhaps you took a quick look at it, laughed, and ripped it up. We will see.
Enjoy the rest of your week.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
I was reading comments on page 4, and came to the post comment box on that page. I forgot that there was another whole page of comments, so my post, above my seem out of context. It is a sigh ofresignation. I am powerless over other peoples opinions about AA and 12 step groups! I’m tired of having to defend it against folks that don’t have a clue. I’m tired of watching everybody point the finger without accountability. I’m tired of the resentments and the lack of spiritul growth. It’s not working forme any more. You know how I know this? Because of what AA taught me. Whe I started AA I was a victim…just like you all are when yu come here.
The first step is admitting powerlessness ad unmanagability.
Alot of you here haven’t even gotton that far.
The second step is meant to break through denial, and the insanity of repeating addictive behaviors over and over again….when you do what ya did, you get what ya got.
It is also about building faith. The thid step is surrender, and get this: the fourth step is about taking a fearless and thourogh MORAL inventory?
The 12th step says, “Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and practice these principles in all our affairs.
Are you practicing a set of principles? Have you had aspiritual awakening?
I get really tired of reminding people that AA works and that it’s an evil thing to do to slam it on a blog like this, because you might influence someone who needs it to not seek it.
I’m sorry to have to say these things, again.
If you had any experience in really working an honest and painstaking 12 steps, you wouldn’t be so ignorant.
Rant done. I’m getting off the blog.
Kimmy,
I’m sorry you feel that way. I believe I have been adamant in that AA DOES work for alot of people. But it doesn’t work for everyone. If it worked for YOU that’s all that matters!
Kimmy, each of us works a “program” in our own way. It doesn’t have to be the twelve steps. What you think should work for us, may not. AA would NOT work for me. And it if doesn’t, then I find something that DOES, which is what I”m doing now. AA would NOT be safe for me because there ARE LOTS of spaths in meetings. I just choose not to take the risk.
BUt if YOU have been helped by it, than whose to say that it’s wrong for you????
Kimmy, I take issue with the belief that you seem to have in that everyone here is resentful or without a spiritual awakening. I don’t believe that. I see Ox and Erin and Eden, and Mama Gem, and many others here who are NOT resentful and are DEF spiritually awakened. We are all in a different place of process. What was it like for you when you got here?
I’m sorry you feel you need to go, wish you didn’t, but i do understand. I hope you continue to find your own healing, Kimmy.
I won’t be here forever, but for now, it helps, particularly when I get stuck or when I need a kick upward.
Blessings, Kimmy.
LL
I don’t think AA’s for everybody. If it’s not for you it’s not for you.
AA forces you to deal with you. Victims hate that. They have to relenquish victim status and accept accountability. They have to let go of resentment, because as the Big Book says, “resentment has the power to actually kill us.”
I just don’t see a lot of willingness to let go of resentment, here.
I see a lot of holding on to victim status. I see a lot of misery loves company. After cycling through the various stages of greif a few times, I want to get to acceptance…but I’m having trouble getting there because I don’t see much of it.
Where do you go after anger?
Do you stay here on LF and continue to focus on the traumatic?
Comiserate?
I’m sorry if I offended you. I FELT offended. I’m tired of having to defend the 12 steps. I am adamant about them.
If alcoholics and recovery are to be held in such disdain and automatically written off as spaths, or hopeless, or moral degenerates, what good am I doing myself by being here? Does this, in any way help me recover?
Maybe I’m setting myself up to feel what I’ve always set myself up to feel….not good enough. unlovable….damaged….defective….etc.etc.etc.
I’m not gonna run around trying to prove myself to anybody.
Don’t have to. I just think I need to move on.
Okay. I’m going to excercise one of AA’s principles. Rigorous honesty. Being honest with myself, and hence, with you.
I am stuck. I am stuck and am fighting against letting go of my last hold out: alcohol. I know the one place I can go to get unstuck. I know what works. The only problem is I have to quit drinking.
I tried to get recovery here, hoping I could stay comfortable in denial. I have recovered quite a bit, from the devastation of being in these horrid relationships. I’ve learned a lot abou myself by reading up on trauma bonds, and believe I am dealing with a lot of childhood stuff, because of the dreams I’m having, the weepiness, the touchiness,and what not. I’m hovering on the edge of a decision.
I either have to get all the way into it, or leave it lone, altogether.
I can’t go to the local mentel health place here, either, unless I quit drinking.
So…I’m fighting a war within myself.
Sorry about taking it out on you guys!!
But, I do love AA, and will defend it, because it’s the one thing that does work for me, and that’s probably where I need to be.
Dear Kimmie,
I remember when you were as crazeeee as LL is, and though she is not “there” yet where you are….I do see some progress in her. I hate to “compare” different people’s progress against someone else’s progress because we all progress/regress at varying rates.
Grief and healing is a ROLLER COASTER and we get to acceptance for a few minutes then get back into victim mode, anger, bargaining, etc.
Remember when you and your SIL got into it because you were having a glass of wine at night and he was calling you a hypocrite? We talked about it at the time and you kept justifying your glass of wine….but then decided to give it up.
We all do that, Kim….I’m not picking on you. That’s why HEALING IS A PROCESS not a DESTINATION. We journey, and we step in holes and fall into new pits on the road, and skin our knees and get back up.
CHIT HAPPENS that throws us a curve ball….January seems to be my month! LOL That was when son C threw me for a spin cycle last year and this year my Best friend of 30 years and her husband threw me for another one….and it hurt, both times, but this year At least I didn’t go into a SPIN CYCLE…though I AM still dealing with that loss of her friendship…but I am dealing better this time. It hurts, but I’m coping. Maybe next time something happens I won’t cope so well.
I’m working on not feeling so bitter—and boy is that a CONTINUAL battle to keep that bitterness dog starved! I have to read and think and work hard on it.
I’m coming to grips too with the fact that it is MOST LIKELY that my P son WILL get out sooner or later—3 years, 5 years—but when ever it is I am going to have to move or kill him or be killed. I planted some nut trees that will be 5-6 years before they bear this year. Maybe I’ll be here then, maybe I won’t, but I’m still working on my “current home” like I’m going to live here forever. Probably won’t be able to, but that is in God’s hands. I’ll just work like it all depends on me, and pray like it all depends on Him.
Yea, there are a lot of people here right now that are in the SPIN CYCLE and sometimes that is frustrating and we wish they’d make some faster progress…the way we wished we’d make faster progress.
I wrote that article about what VIOLENCE psychopaths are capable when a poster came here and told how violent her X was and then went back, then came back, and then disappeared again. I WAS FRUSTRATED AND SCARED FOR HER…but the truth is that 85% of victims go back—or if they do get out (that 15%) fiind another abuser. You and I have BOTH DONE THAT.
I sincerely doubt that either of us will again pick another abuser, we’ve made some progress….but never say never! We still need to learn and grow. That’s why people keep going to AA for 20-30 years to help maintain that that progress and continue to grow.
And yea, some people who are drunks AND psychopaths get sober but they are still abusers and psychopaths and AA recognizes these as “dry drunks”—and there are also abusers who come here and pretend to be victims.
Hell, Kimmie, I took one into my home a couple of summers ago. She was eloquent in her posts, bright, educated and as psychopathic as they get—and she had me fooled for a while. I fell for her pity play, but she was an abuser POSING AS A VICTIM.
Something is triggering you me thinks, and I’m not sure what it is, or if it is “defending” AA or what, but when we are triggered it means there is something we need to work on ourselves. Just like when my son C’s lying to me sent me into a tail spin, I had to find out what about ME allowed me to react so much—to be so surprised! I SHOULDN’T have been surprised. He has lied to me before, betrayed me before and I FELL FOR his “apology” an gave him back all my trust. THAT WAS MY BAD DECISION. I had to think about how I would react in the future, and come to acceptance that he is NOT THE MAN I WISH HE WAS. He is deceptive. Not a psychopath for sure, but not the kind of man I want in my life, even if I did give birth to him. It saddens me, because I wish it weren’t the way it is, but I have to accept that it is what it is.
Same thing with my x best friend. She is hurting…in her pain she is striking out at me because she feels like I am judging her. She KNOWS in her heart that she is not handling her situation in her marriage in a healthy way, and she’s handling it in a way that is not healthy and she KNOWS IT…and though I am NOT judging her (just feeling sorry for her mostly) she FEELS judged so she strikes out in her FOG…her fear and guilt mostly. Her shame that her marriage is a sham, not wanting others to know what is going on with her life. I’ve been there Kim so I am not judging her, just loving her, but she can’t see that and I CAN’T CHANGE IT. I’m sad, but I accept it for what it is and I treasure the many years of close friendship that we had. Just as I would if she had died.
What Henry said the other day about it is easier sometimes ot lose a friend through death than otherwise and I think he is right. At least if they DIE we can realize they didn’t do it on purpose. LOL
You’ve had a lot of changes lately kim, getting your own place, the problems with your preg daughter situation, the problems with the other one….looking at more changes, probably getting a job here by summer instead of babysitting the kids. But those are all things that are GROWTH too, Kim. Becoming independent again. Change = stress and even good stress i s stress so take a deep breath! Pass over the posts that offend you or if they trigger you, then see what it is about yourself that triggers you.
Your voice here is VERY IMPORTANT KIM….you have been “down the pike” and I do not want to see you withdraw that voice because you feel it is not valued. I for one value your voice more than you can ever believe! (((hugs)))) and God bless.
Kim, we posted over each other. I was not aware you were having problems with the drinking again. ((((hugs))))Thank you for your honesty and you can do it girl! You have over come so much! (((hugs)))) and my prayers for you my friend.
Kimmy,
I think my unfortunate circumstances forces me to deal with me. It isn’t going to be AA, for me that is going to help me relinquish victim status and accept accountability. I think every single person here has already accepted accountability for having been with a spath, simply because they’re out of their relationshits and are now on a path of healing. That takes a LONG time. I’m only four and a half months out. I’ve not even BEGUN to hit the “Fun” stuff yet. I KNOW I won’t be in this place forever, but I DO know that it MUST be WALKED through in order to heal it.
Kimmy, for too many years, I adopted the position of martyr, NOT victim. I was everyone’s “enabler”. I didn’t see this as a victim role and I helped a lot people. Sure, i got screwed doing it because I helped the WRONG people. Whether you like it or not, MANY of us here, including yourself were at one time, victimized in the EXTREME. It takes awhile once you’re out to go “hmmmm……now what about ME allowed this”. NOt many can get to that point, Kimmy, but everyone here DOES, as far as I know. Some sooner than others. I also believe that has a lot to do with how strong of a support system you have.
What you’re seeing is what you were three years ago, Kimmy. Maybe what it really REALLY is for you is that you’ve reached that place of healing and it’s time for you to take more steps ahead and leave this behind if it’s too triggering. I understand that too. I think you offer a lot of really good advice.
As far as “focusing on the traumatic”.yep. That’s exactly what I’m doing, Kimmy and i have a LIFE TIME of it that I OVERLOOKED that got me here in the first place. Therapy, groups, this blog, forging new friendships, people that “get it” is what is necessary while I FOCUS on the traumas that have happened in my life. If I DO NOT focus on it, I’ll REPEAT it and I DON”T want to do that again. Simply being aware isn’t going to work. I have to work through the trauma, thus this means that I have to DEAL with it head on, not avoid it, or pretend it doesn’t exist.
I think it’s Ox that says, “At first it’s all about them, then it’s all about us”. I think that’s true. But from my perspective, when it turns to US it also means facing and FOCUSING on the trauma and working through it to get PAST it. What better way to do that than to SHARE it. I’m willing to bet that some of us here, could not do that with just any ordinary person. Just like AA is for you, this blog is for those who have been hurt by a spath. Just as it helped you, it helps lots of people here too.
I’m not offended at all by what you said, Kimmy. I respect that that’s where you are, but also to assume that we all write alcoholics as spath is incorrect. I have shared that I have had friends who were hiding bottles of vodka in the back of their toilets and are now recovered. they are VERY good, VERY kind people. My spath IS an alcoholic. From my perspective, his alcohol is SECONDARY to his overall condition. I was also married to a P who was a raging alcoholic, he got sober, spent time in AA and was in a batterer’s program. He was a DRY drunk, but pretended to be recovered. He was also very dangerous and loved picking up women in those meetings.
There are certain breeding grounds for spaths, kimmy, where there are very vulnerable people. Newly recovering alcoholics can also have a lot of underlying issues to deal with and not be spath, but ripe for the pickin’s. It’s no different than spaths who troll online for the vulnerable or in a local church where they are aplenty. this is really where a person’s own self care comes into play. Ultimately, it’s up to the person who is alcoholic to make a CHOICE to stop drinking.
I don’t see anyone here that creates situations in which you feel you need to defend yourself about AA. I’m sorry you feel that way kimmy. Again, I’m not opposed to AA at all and I have seen it work for some in my life, but not everyone. I also have not seen anyone here say that because one is alcoholic, indicates that one is spath. There are MANY people who walk out of traumatic situations FROM a spath and have a drinking problem, Kimmy. I’m one of those who has. Not a good coping skill, but it was my ex spaths MO. He used it to keep me complying. It was dark and evil. Does that mean I couldn’t recover from it? NO WAY. NO way.
Being an alcoholic does not make you a spath kimmy, nor does it mean you are defective or damaged. No one asked you to prove anything here.
I enjoy your posts.
But I think you need to do what you feel is best for you.
Either way, I support you and your process.
LL
Kimmy, I posted over you and Ox,
I wasn’t aware that you were struggling with it again either.
It’s okay, Kimmy. I too have fallen off the wagon a few times during this process. But ya know what? Ya just get up, dust off and keep trying. During times when I’ve fallen, I learned to recognize that there is something going on underneath. I might not even be AWARE of what it is, I just know that it’s spontaneous and painful. So I’ll think about it. Okay, what is it that I need to deal with so that i DON”T drink TODAY. It’s hard Kimmy, it is!!!
I know you know this, but I’ll just say it anyway…..when you fall off the wagon, you only really feel worse….you wake up the next day and go,” SHIT! Why did I do that?” It’s a downward cycle, Kimmy. It increases depression and gives you that big stick to beat yourself up with.
I don’t think ANY less of you because of this issue, Kim. I don’t.
And I can tell you, that I believe you WILL get through this. You will because you have a BIG heart and a compassionate one. You’ve come a LONG way and the only one who can make the choice to not drink is you. It’s no one else’s business. I think it’s very brave that you posted that. I really do.
(((((((((((((((((((( HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Just one day at a time Kimmy. Forgive yourself, and if you’re not ready to make that decision just yet, just ask yourself why….you’ll work through it.
LL
Kimmy;
Get back to a meeting!!!!!!!!
You’ve got too much on your plate darlen to allow anything to destroy you.
Take care of YOU……..and YOU only!
God, grant me the serentity to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can and the wisdome to know the difference.
You CAN do it!!!!!
XXOO
EB
Kimmy,
Do you have a sponsor?????
LL