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LETTER TO LOVEFRAUD: I’m at a loss about what to do (Part 2)

Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who posts as “WalkingInLight.” Read Part 1 here.

Towards the end of our separation a man rang me from S’s church to see if he could help S and I get back together. He told me he had spoken to S and was now speaking to me to see if he could help. I told him I still loved S but really believed he did not love me. This man said he would talk to S the next time he saw him.

Now I have to say that I had not been going to this man’s church for a couple of years because the teaching had taken a ”˜strange turn,’ so I was at a different church to my husband. Even though my husband agreed about the teaching, he said he couldn’t leave that church because he respected the leadership and felt loyal to them. As soon as this man told me he was going to speak to S the next time he saw him I KNEW that S would leave that church (so that conversation wouldn’t happen) — and that is exactly what happened. Though S always tells people he left due to the teaching.

I could handle it

But once again, I started to forget all the unpleasantness, and wanted him back again (this sounds mad I know). But i felt that after not knowing what was going on in my marriage for the first 12 years, now that I did know I could handle it. I also found out he was planning to move back to his home country (which he denied) and I knew if he went the girls wouldn’t see him again.

He had up to that point made sure to see them loads and never messed them around, in fact, his relationship with them had never been so good. I went to see him and said I wanted to give it another try. He said he would do it for the sake of the children, but he was moving back home (as I knew) and we would be living there.

He also said I had to cut all ties with my friend. This I agreed to first of all, then said no I wouldn’t do that. He said I shouldn’t go back on my word and tried to bully me in to agreeing.

We spent that Christmas together in the house I was in with the kids. It was odd. He was on his phone texting most of the time, even though he’d said he loved me and wanted the marriage to work, not just for the sake of the children.

Moved to his country

We finally moved. My parents were devastated, because they used to see us all the time, but I was convinced they would come and live with us at some point. We moved to a VERY remote place, for a while I liked it. But after 2 years I realized I didn’t. I was so homesick. I asked him to go back. I begged him to go back. He said, “You can go back if you want.” Even though his family were an hour and half away we very rarely saw them.

His behaviour got a bit better over the years. He seemed less angry in general, but would still react if he felt “threatened” (asking something of him, etc.). He very rarely punched or kicked anything. He stopped smoking drugs. He became more huggy. But the cycle was still there.

He was still saying I was mental and a liar. I BEGGED him to stop saying these things and I really wanted him to admit I was not mental, even though he’d said it to me so much I used to ask my friend, “Am I mental?” She used to say to me, “It worries me that you have to even ask that.” I realized now his games and his countering, denying etc., but it still hurt.

Wanted a son

He wanted a son. I wasn’t sure, because I was 38 years old. He put a picture on my screen saver of a pregnant tummy with a little foot sticking out. I thought it was quiet sweet. I did get pregnant. Then I remembered that he’d always had this fascination with the Bible story of Jacob (I think) who put his sheep in front of the speckled sticks to make them spotty (I think that’s right). He believed in this principle. I asked him if he’d done that with the picture of the pregnant tummy on my screen saver, he just laughed.

We had a son. I had to stay in hospital for a week in the city where his parents lived. He barely came to see me for an hour a day, and because this hospital was so far from our home hardly anyone came to see me. He told me he was looking after the girls at his parents. I later found out he was just out visiting friends.

Awhile after he went to a school reunion, when I saw photos of him on facebook with his old friends I had to do a double take. He was really laughing, relaxed and looked totally different. He looked like a stranger to me; he never looked like that around us.

Boxing

I was really worried about having a son because I didn’t want him to be like S. I knew S would influence him. S had always had this love of boxing, but I had said if we have a son I don’t want him to do boxing. So one night when our son was about 3, S says he is going to help out at the boxing club. I spoke to him and reminded him how I felt about it. He said it wouldn’t affect our son M.

But I knew he would influence him and before you know it M would be boxing. He would make M want to do it. I was so upset. This didn’t just affect me now; this affected my children.

I very calmly tried to talk to him about it, but he used all the usual tricks of diversion, twisting to tie me up in knots. I kept thinking of different ways of saying what I felt, hoping he would understand me this time. But I’d fallen back into the trap of thinking we were having a relationship built on mutuality, where people want to understand each other and sort the problem out. I eventually reminded him of the verse about not doing something you want to do if you know someone else will be upset by it, because then you are not “acting in love.” I really thought he would see my point, but no, he accused me of “manipulating scripture.” I eventually went to see our pastor about the boxing situation. I also told him about our marriage.

Apology

Around this time we had more counseling. I totally opened up about how I really felt in our relationship. I told him I felt totally rejected. He said he would do anything to make me feel secure. A few weeks later we went on a family outing with his parents and brother, sister-in-law and kids. Ten minutes into the walk I turn around from looking at something with the children and he was nowhere to be seen. He’d walked off with his parent.

I spent the rest of the time (at the zoo) walking round without him.

When we met up at the end he said he couldn’t find me. It was a circular walk, which we’d done many times before, but all of a sudden it was too complicated for him to work out where I was. When we got back I told him I couldn’t believe he’d done that after I told him how rejected I felt. He refused to understand or apologize for how that made me feel. I could not move passed this, not after all I’d told him. I needed him to acknowledge it.

I kept trying a couple of times a week to say it in a different way, so the the penny would finally drop and he would see my pain. This went on for 6 months. I was the lowest I’ve ever felt; I wanted to die. After 6 months he said if it means so much to you I’m sorry.

Amiable

More recently he was checking out a beautiful young lady waiting by the school gates with us, really staring at her, right in front of me! I was devastated and embarrassed; we live in a very small community and people must have seen him doing it. I challenged him about it when we got home and of course he denied it. I went to our pastor again. When I got back S said to me that he DIDN’T look at THAT woman but he has been looking at a lot of women and it’s become a habit and he’d been watching a lot of porn as well.

If you met my husband you would think, “What a lovely, intelligent, helpful guy.” He is involved in a lot of community work and has run for local council, representing his political party. In fact, he took a personality test the other day and told us it came back as “amiable,” which he even laughed at. My eldest daughter (who sees what is going on) said, “well you are ”¦ to other people.”

No trust

I am going to finish now. Just to say, I thought about a year ago, if I just accepted this as “It is what it is,” and know that he reacts in this way in certain situations (most of which I go out of my way to avoid), I can get on with it.

But there is no intimacy. There is no trust, so many times he uses things I have told him in my weaker moments against me. In times when everything is “ok,” which are quite a lot of the time, I feel nothing for him. We don’t really have a relationship. It is not that I haven’t forgiven him; it is that I can’t trust him.

I know everything may look o.k. on the surface, but that surface only needs to be “scratched” and all this nastiness will spew out.

Something came up the other day. He abused me in front of his brother. (He always does this in front of his family, unless I remind him not to do it before we go. Then he will say “I never do that,” but at least he wont do it.) I spoke to him about it and he said all the usual things to me: “ I am spoilt,” “never take responsibility for my actions,” “never apologize,” “I’m a liar,” etc.

I said to him, you called me a “fat bitch” on Monday and you only just said sorry for that now and it’s Sunday night. And that’s because I said I wanted to talk things over with you. I think if anyone has a lack of responsibility that would be you. I thought to myself, this person DOES NOT KNOW ME AT ALL, AND DOES NOT WANT TO GET TO KNOW ME.

Doesn’t want to change

He wants to stay in his perception of who I am so he doesn’t have to change his behaviour. I have tried in the past to live my own life while living with him but it is very depressing and lonely (more lonely than being alone) and so I fall back into a “relationship” with him.

I am truly at a loss about what to do. I really don’t want to upset my kids, my youngest two would be very upset if the family were to break up. I also don’t know if I’m strong enough to do it either, or whether I’m too old at 44 to start again. Any thought on this would be very helpful.

I apologize again for the length and I thank you if you have managed to read all this.

Love,

WalkingInLight

 


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Linette

Walkinginlight,

First of all I am so sorry for your many years of pain. I went through 20+ years of it also with 2 different men. Thankfully, we had no children so I was able to finally cut ties to both of them though the second still likes to rear his ugly head at our church from time to time just to make me and my new husband uncomfortable. I am no psychologist but the patterns you describe sound spot on when dealing with a sociopath. They use the ones who they deem to be “fronts” for them, who enable them to live a live that LOOKS completely different from what it really is, to give them “power”. There may be more people who “see” him for who he is than you know that just don’t say anything. There certainly were with mine. He did have a lot totally fooled also. Both of them did. Only you can decide whether you need to leave but I can tell you this is not a nurturing environment for you or for your children. In my opinion if at all possible I would get out now. Be by yourself for a bit and learn what a healthy relationship looks like. I married an even worse man on a rebound because he seemed so charming and attentive and crazy about me at first. It was actually as bad or worse as my first one. I am with a kind, considerate, wonderful godly man now. Sociopaths often use the church to obtain power or as a front. A good wife makes them LOOK good but they care almost nothing about you except what they can gain. When I finally left mine, in fact, the very night I sneaked away, he sent me an email with a quickie divorce website. He cared NOTHING about me. I was a good wife who made him look good and nothing more. We are nothing more than “objects” to true sociopaths. Not saying yours is, like I said I am no psychologist but he certainly seems to have the traits and fit the “profile”. Please don’t waste any more of your life on this man. You are still young. I left my second one when I was 51 years old. I have the rest of my life and I am going to spend it with someone who knows how to give back and really truly loves me.

Jan7

Hi Hon, I just wanted you to know that the way you are feeling is sadly normal when dealing with a sociopath…one min you want to run fast away from him, the next min the sociopath has manipulated you to stay…your mind is so twisted up by the sociopath you don’t know which way is up and which way is down, you dont know if you should stay or go. We have all been in the same place you are now….follow your gut hon it will never fail you ever…the mear fact that you found Lovefraud.com tells me that your gut is screaming that you need to get out of this abusive relationship asap.

A sociopath in the beginning of a relationship (and throughout) will say things that will leave you speechless….leave you wondering what just happened…the begin of your relationship when he said that “we should take a break” there is no doubt that he had another women hooked in his web of lies and manipulation and that is why he left you but most importantly to keep you in his wings just incase the other relationship did not work out.There is no doubt he was messing with your mind, this is what sociopaths do. In a normal relationship you jaw does not drop nor are you left speechless but this is indicative of a sociopath.

In the beginning of a relationship a sociopath will keep pushing your emotional boundaries…the victim of a sociopath will keep ignoring all the red flags even when those red flags become a marching band of red flags…why? because the sociopath always will come up with a plausible reason why he did such and such thing….but your gut is telling you that his behavior is not normal or acceptable social behavior…once again listen to your gut.

Know that all sociopaths use mind control, brain washing, trance, hypnosis, gas lighting abuse, isolation, intimidation, install fear and phobias etc to control their victims and this is why you can not simply walk away from him…it’s really crazy what they do to control their victims and once you open your mind up from his psychological games you will find that he is down right scary to be around! You must break free of his mind control to finally leave your abusive relationship, to do this you need professional help from a therapist and by reading everything on Lovefraud and other sites/books on sociopaths.

I would suggest the following asap:

1) watch all of Donna Anderson’s “lovefraud” videos posted at the top of this site…over and over and get a notebook out and start listing what you husband has done during the relationship as it relates to the videos…Donna has done a amazing job at relying exactly what all sociopaths do to manipulate us into a relationship with them and to keep us in the relationship in her videos. When you have any doubt about leaving again watch the videos and read everything on her site to open your mind up from your husbands mind control.

2) buy/read Donna’s book(s) and also some other books posted on her site such as Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft, Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown (her site is saferelationshipsmagazine.com , Freedom of mind by Steven Hassan (his book is a must read). Why read books = to open your mind to learn YES you are in a emotional, mental, most likely physical and finical abusive relationship.

3) contact your national domestic abuse center (just google), in the USA its 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor and also to get local abuse center numbers. GO to your local abuse center asap without your abuser knowing, they will help you with free counseling, women group meetings (these will help open your mind and also to learn that your abuser is doing exactly what all abusers do, these were a life saver for me) and most importantly the center will help you with an “EXIT PLAN” out of this abusive relationship.

4) Ask your local domestic abuse center for an outside counselor who specialize in domestic abuse and go also…if you are in the USA you can also contact Sandra Brown of Saferelationshipsmagazine.com she has a counseling center/retreat and has specialized in Domestic abuse victims for over 25 years. and/or Steven Hassan of Freedomofmind.com he also specializes in domestic abuse and cult relationships also for over 25 years (both cult leaders and domestic abusers are sociopaths). Both Sandra and Steven maybe able to help you find therapist in your country if you are outside the USA just email them. Why go to outside counseling along with counseling at the domestic abuse center…the outside counselor will provide more info regarding your abuser meaning they will talk bluntly about sociopaths where the center will not. Both Steven and Sandra do phone consultation so you dont have to go to their actual office. Steven Hassan’s site is freedomofmind.com, go to his site and in the right hand top corner read his “bite model” this is how abusers mind control their victims.

5) Start creating an “EXIT PLAN” out of your abusive relationship….have friends/family help you with this along with your local abuse center and outside counselor. You can also go to your countries national domestic abuse website for more info on this subject and also google “Dr Phils EXIT PLAN”. Please remember the most dangerous time for a women in a domestic abusive relationship is when she leave him…so please have a plan in place.

6) Talk to your most trusted friends and family about what is going on in your relationship now. Remember abusers isolate their victims from friends and family by occupying the victims time and/or by telling the victims that they do not like so and so and you should not hang out with them…it’s time to open up and reconnect with your friends/family…please do not feel embarrassed for being in a abusive relationship remember 1 in 4 women will end up in a abusive relationship and most likely one of your friends/family have been in one and will be able to help you.

7) check out facebook page After narcissistic abuse and One moms battle to chat with over 25, 000 women who have left/or planning on leaving their abusive relationship. Ask questions on these sites as well as vent on them too (it helps)

8) Get a doctors physical with a hormonal specialist…including blood work for vitamin deficiency, cortisol levels, and hormonal imbalance…why? Most women leaving a abusive relationship have PTSD…according to Dr Lawless author of the PTSD breakthrough the biggest issues with PTSD is adrenal fatigue…see also drlam.com and drwilsonadrenalfatigue.org (on both sites see symptoms list). Start eating a healthy diet with lots of veggies to flood you body with vitamins and minerals which have been depleted because of all the stress you have endured because of your relationship. Our adrenal glands regulate our blood pressure, blood sugar, cortisol and adrenaline levels, and over 50 hormones including all the female hormones they are a big deal…under continual stress such as a toxic abusive relationship our adrenal glands end up working over time and in return start to wreaking havoc on our minds and body causing adrenal fatigue and also sleep issues, mood swings, anxiety, depression, memory loss etc very long list…this can be healed again with a healthy diet, vitamins, minerals, hormonal balancing such as pills or cream. For me this was a major step in healing from my abusive relationship. One of the best books is by Mia Lundin…see her site mialundin.com her book will explain what is going on with your body/mind and give you methods to heal too.

9) KNOW that you are NOT alone hon….my abusive husband had me so mentally isolated that I felt like I could not reach out for help…but once I reached out to friends then family then the abuse center and an outside counselor, I realized that I was not alone. Keep reaching out for help hon.

10) cover your tracks to say safe….make sure you hide your journal in a safe place, that you clear your history on your computer, that you do not tell your abuser that you are talking about your relationship, that you are talking with a therapist…stay safe!!

11) google “no contact rule narcissist”..once you leave follow this rule = no contact with him, you must break the emotional bond he has over you so that you can heal.

Know that there are 7 billion people on this planet you are not alone and someday when you are healed and ready for a new relationship will find a a great guy.

I left my husband at 45 years of age…the best thing I ever did for myself was leave him I have never looked back (only wish I would have left him years earlier)…as Dr Phils always says “it’s better for kids to come from a broken home, then to live in a broken home”…your kids abusive father is not only taking a mental/physical toll on you but also on your kids…please do not stay for the “kids sake”…your kids also deserve a peaceful home filled with love & respect… if you stay with your abusive husband your kids will never experience peace.

Wishing you all the best!

(Hi Donna, I hope it is ok to post all of this info. I come to your wonderful site several times a week to read your new blogs and this post made my heart sink because I remember being so confused at what to do about my own relationship that I signed up to your site yesterday just to respond to her post…Thank you for all that you have done, your a true angel!)

WalkinginLight,
I know exactly the hurt and humiliation of being in a marriage where there is no love;no intimacy and no trust.It is a nightmare.
I was losing my sanity and my health.My dignity was long gone.
I had given my husband umpteen chances to change;but you can tell when someone is making an effort to change and when someone is content with their life “as is”.

Due to cognitive dissonance,we are so confused that we think we are being “good wives”.But as Linette brought out,we’re only objects,being used for their purpose.

Jan7

ps one last thing…google “oprah gavin debecker you tube” and watch oprah’s interview with gavin debecker author of “the gift of fear”….it’s one of her “life class” videos (I think she is wearing a orange sweater) it’s worth your time to remember that you must always follow your gut! take care.

4Light2shine

WalkinginLight, that’s a long time you have been interacting with a disordered person. The fact that you posted your story on a site that educates people about sociopaths speaks volumes. I don’t have children so I will leave any advise about leaving to those with experience there. I do have some experience in dealing with people who present themselves as deeply spiritual, highly moral individuals who prove by their actions that they are the polar opposite. The person you described is a covert manipulator. He is also a liar. This is really at the core of most of your problems with him, Deception. Because sociopaths and malignant narcissists employ so much covert deceptions, manipulations, projections, spinning, gaslighting and any other crazymakiing tactics that you could even imagine we become clouded and we lose the ability to see things for what they really are. Your eyes are beginning to open. Keep reading articles here at Lovefraud. There are tons of great ones archived. We all share here when we find books or articles on other sites that have helped us. 5 years ago I married a woman I now believe is a sociopath. She stays in character very well and is well respected in the community. No one is nicer or more pleasant till you have the audacity to actually hold her accountable for her actions, to call her out on her lies or her inappropriate relationships with many of the men in our religious community. Same as yours – same as most others who challenge the godship of their spath she had to win. She had to paint me as Crazy. I too worry that I’m too old or damaged to find someone else but that’s ok because even if that is the case, living with a toxic personality is a horror that I have decided is too dangerous to my physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well being. Hope some of this helps. Keep on Walking in Light.

victoriamin

Dear Walking in Light,
I suggest you simply read the Bible for your answers, if you walk in the light. In Psalm 1, we are instructed not to walk in the pathway of sinners. In the Old Testament, before the people could return to the Promised Land, they had to “put away” their unbelieving wives and husbands. Then in Matthew, Christ tells us that he came not to bring peace, but a swords, dividing son against father, etc. In Luke, He clearly says we must “hate” our family to follow Him.
The biggest mistake that I can’t undo is letting the sociopath I was married to convince me to take him back and not divorce him when I knew I should. Don’t make that same mistake.

Tea Light

Dear walking in light

Here is a very clear guide to abusive personalities in relationships by Dr Joseph Carver , you will find your husband’s abuse of you is characteristic of a ‘ cluster b’ personality disorder. People with these disorders typically lie, blame others for their abusive behaviours, and have very little or no ability to empathise. Lack of empathy makes a person dangerous as it allows them to abuse another person without regret or remorse.

As you educate yourself about your husband’s abusive personality, take care to delete your browsing history if he uses the same computer as you, and keep any of your printed information or notes on personality disorders where he won’t be able to access it.

If you decide to leave, get help in advance from your nearest women’s rights centre. Do not allow any member of the church to pressure you into staying. No responsible person of faith encourages a woman to stay with an abuser.

All the very best to you as you move forward into peace and freedom from this man’s violations of your rights.

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/understanding

Tea Light!
I’ve missed you so!Plz tell me what’s been going on since we last talked?!The reason I haven’t emailed you was because I wasn’t sure if you were still on the internet.You can email me at the email address you have since I changed the password,and I’ll give you my new account.

I’m not being bothered and Baby and I are happy.I think I told you I have a grandson on the way.

hinahina

Here’s what you do, Love: you MAKE A MOVE! Get away from him! He’s an abuser! Save yourself, Babe! Take the children and live free.

That’s what you must do!!

Be well!!

Barb

To All who contributed here: I read two things that resonated with me. Your husband checked out a beautiful woman. And sociopaths using the church as a front while they usurp as much power as possible.
I mentioned this once before but it stays with me. I was appalled at a young woman who worked where both my husband and I worked. She embodied innocence and friendliness and everyone liked her. Then things became very ugly. I had to work closely with her and felt awful when she made ‘subtle’ comments to undermine me. Men thought I was attractive at the workplace and she knew it…she was forever trying to find out what was happening, especially with me. She admitted she was very nosy.
As time went on she altered her appearance. What I thought was a plain little thing blossomed overnight into a beauty. My husband noticed and he just became enthralled with her. Men suddenly whistled and gawked at her…it was like she jockeyed me out of position. Since I was much older I kept quiet…I suffered her put-downs and underhanded comments. I was a temp there and I knew she wanted me out of there. She spread lies and gossip. It was just awful.
The worst thing of all was when she flaunted herself in front of my husband and ate it up when he complimented her. I know he was not right to do this, especially in front of me, but he was infatuated with her. I finally told him how demeaning his behavior was to me and he truly felt bad. He apologised at home and refused to even look at her at work. She seemed puzzled by this but I took no satisfaction in it. I just felt sorry for her.
On top of it all…she was/is a Born-Again…so the comment about ‘using it as a front’ was very clear to me.
The rotten thing about being attractive is…if you cannot hold your own you end up in these scenarios where you become suspicious to everyone around you. You become tied into the web and accused even though you were the victim. Suddenly everyone is blaming you. You feel horrible and worthless.
And if you say you think you are attractive, as I did here, you come across as vain and foolish. It is a no-win situation.

Barb

Yes…send me comments if you will.

There is a lot more to come. The sociopath who invaded my life when I was only 9 years old! And the aftermath that continues to this day…

bluemosaic

Dear WalkinginLight,

I like your username. It shows the resiliance of your spirit. The very fact that you are reaching out, is a beautiful first step in moving beyond the depravity of having a relationship with a human being who has not given one ounce of compassion or caring to you in all the years you have devoted to him.
I am deeply sorry for your pain and all you have gone through. You have come to the right place. There is a lot of kindness, compassion and “reciprocity of support” on this site, things that have apparently been completely lacking in your marriage.
“Spath’s do not change”. Ever. It is beyond their innate abilty.
Walk. No contact. Info on here to help you manage parenting issues that will arise. Support from family, friends and places like LF. Build a tool box, (prayer, info, counseling,meditation, EFT, inspirational reading ect.), to help you move beyond the pain of what you have experienced. I have read many of the articles by Kathleen Hawke, that were suggested to me when I first found LF. They were very helpful in making sense of it all. You can access them under the authors tool bar.
Know that whereever you are inside right now…there will indeed be “Light” at the end of the tunnel. May you find the hope and strengnth you need to walk away from him, and find a better life of hope and joy for you and your precious chilren.

Bluemosaic

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