Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who we’ll call “Nora.” The names in this letter have been changed.
One Saturday, in October 2009, I married someone I thought was the man of my dreams. When this man came into my life last year, I had suffered several losses and was very vulnerable. I thought I had finally met an honorable, loving, understanding, romantic, Christian man. We laughed together, planned our future together, and seemed like the perfect couple. I should have remembered when something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Although I didn’t expect everything would always be rosy, soon after we were married, I discovered that everything I thought I knew about this man was based on lies. He is the complete opposite of who I thought he was and has no concept of the truth or of being in a committed, loving relationship.
From my research since leaving him, I believe this man is a sociopath, and nothing, or no one, is going to change him. He initially presents himself to be a charismatic, romantic, faithful man, but soon the real man begins to emerge – a cheating, abusive, pathological liar. When I started questioning inconsistencies in his stories, he turned everything around to try and make me feel guilty for doubting him, and that worked in the beginning. Even though I was confused as to why I was no longer feeling love from this man, I tried to convince myself that everything would work itself out. When I started to realize this man had duped me, I also started to realize he was incapable of truth or love. The fact that we recited our wedding vows in the presence of God and family meant nothing to him. Everyone, including myself, asks the same question. Why did he marry me so quickly and what did he hope to gain? I don’t think there’s an answer to this question that makes sense.
Met on a dating site
I joined a dating website in July 2009 for the same reasons that most women like me do. I was having another birthday that month and decided I wanted to meet someone to enjoy life with, as I had been living as a single woman for over five years and hadn’t dated until the last year. Since I hadn’t met anyone the usual ways, I thought this would be a good way to pick someone who matched what I was looking for in a man. It didn’t take long to get winks from lots of men, but one man’s profile stood out from the others. We are both over 50 years old, but he is several years younger than me, and I often joked that my first husband was the same age as me and my second husband older, so I was looking for a younger man the next time.
We met for our first date a few weeks later at a public garden near my home. When I got out of my car, he met me with a dozen red roses, the first of many to come. At first, he was very quiet but told me later it was because I took his breath away and he hadn’t expected me to have that affect on him. We went to dinner that night at a nearby restaurant. The evening was perfect and he was everything I had hoped for. We agreed on just about everything and the next two months seemed as if we had been together forever — that we were who the other had been hoping to find.
My mom’s advice was not to rush into anything but he convinced me we should get married, and no one tried to talk me out of getting married so soon because they tell me now I seemed happier than I had been in a long time. I never once felt alarm or noticed anything that appeared to be red flags. If I had taken my mom’s advice and waited, the truth would have eventually come out before making the biggest mistake of my life.
Quick wedding
Soon after we started dating, “Gabe” booked tickets for a day trip excursion out-of-state. When we started talking marriage, it was decided we would get married in an outdoor wedding gazebo with the fall leaves as a backdrop on the same day as the planned trip. We left on Friday, the day before the excursion and wedding ceremony, to obtain our marriage license that he applied for online. He was anxious the entire trip, worrying that we wouldn’t get to the license office before they closed. Our children were meeting us the next day for the wedding ceremony and he said he didn’t want anything to upset our plans. Once we got the license, he relaxed, and the planned excursion the next day and the wedding ceremony that night are still wonderful memories and always will be as are the days leading up to that date.
The next day, we returned home and it was decided we would start moving my furniture and belongings to live in his house. My new husband, appearing to show concern, kept asking me if I was sure that’s what I wanted to do because his house is miles away from everything I am used to. I know now that his “concern” was how he was going to keep me from discovering the truth about his numerous lies. I told him I loved living away from the big city and didn’t mind the longer drive to visit with my children or get to my job. I had been renting my condo for over five years, so he said we would keep it until the first of the year, and then purchase it and rent it out.
Discovering the lies
Turns out, Gabe had not been divorced for three years as he told me. His divorce was final one month before our first date, making him ineligible to remarry sooner than 60 days. No wonder he was a wreck about getting the marriage license. He had lied on the marriage license application stating his last divorce was May 2006.
Gabe started to “disappear” and have lame excuses when he returned. He had said he would help pay my rent and car payments to help me with the expenses of two households, but he never gave me a penny. I discovered he was talking to other women online, but didn’t say anything at first. One night I asked who one of them was. He said a friend of his for over 20 years. Turns out, she was someone he had hooked up with in late 2007. He told this woman he was divorced and had an affair with her for several months before she became suspicious and called it off.
The real man
The last week I was there, the real Gabe emerged. I discovered he had changed all of the passwords on the computer and blocked me from using it, but this time, I wasn’t backing down. I knew he was hiding things from me and let him know that’s why I had checked the computer history. I found out he hadn’t paid any of the bills he claimed to have paid for the past two months.Gabe then told me our marriage was a mistake, we wanted different things in life, he realized he never loved me and to pack my things and get out of “his” house.
At first, I refused, thinking we could work it out, but after talking to my mom, something she said clicked in my head, and I suddenly realized what I had to do and started packing.
The day before moving, Gabe and his son moved my furniture to the downstairs garage. I rented a 16-foot truck, and my daughter, son and I loaded my belongings in it and moved out on what should have been our two-month anniversary, back to the condo I was lucky to still have.
More lies
Since leaving him, I have found out the truth about so many of his lies. He isn’t a military hero as he claims. He doesn’t have a Purple Heart Award or a Bronze Medal. He uses a fabricated DD214 and Bachelor of Science diploma as credentials. He never went to college to earn a computer science degree. The university he claims to have received his degree from never heard of him.
The ring – he made a big deal about giving me “his mother’s ring.” He told me he had never felt about anyone the way he did about me, and I was so special, he wanted me to wear it. Turns out, it isn’t even his mother’s ring. He tries to guilt me into returning the ring, saying it’s a family heirloom, and he will pay for a divorce if I return it. Like I’m going to believe another lie of his? There are too many lies to list, but they also include some really insignificant ones that do nothing other than to inflate his image.
Online profiles
I started profiles as his wife in hopes of warning other women about him and not to date him. I made it so anyone searching his name would find my profiles about him instead. He’s been seen dating and I’ve had him bumped from two dating websites after informing them he’s not single as he claims, but still married.
Who found my profiles were other women from his past who he lied to. They have let me know how thankful they are that I exposed him and that it has helped them to understand what they couldn’t before now. We have become informed by sharing and comparing our stories. We’re able to laugh at how he uses the same stories and calls us all “Pretty Lady” and “Bella Principesa.” Our “support group” has drawn us together and we now focus on hopefully sharing our knowledge with others.
Won’t divorce
I can’t get him to divorce me, but that’s one of his MO’s. He tells everyone his wives are the ones who cheated on him and divorced him after leaving him with their debts. He’s the only one who did the cheating. He’s the one who is financially irresponsible and has filed for bankruptcy — a fact he dropped on me after we were married. He had shown me a meticulously kept check register that turned out to be a fake. He refuses to pay for a divorce, so for now, other women are safe from him.
After leaving him and realizing he had not been truthful about his sexual encounters, I went to my doctor to be tested. Thankfully, only one STD test came back positive and it was treated with antibiotics. When I informed him he might need to get tested since he was having sex with other women, his only response was I got infected from improper feminine hygiene. He says ignorant things like that to try and upset me, but I know the truth, and I can hold my head high knowing I did nothing wrong other than to love him and trust him without really knowing anything about him.
I hope others will see there’s no shame in this happening, but I also hope they will read my story and others like it and think as many times as it takes to really get to know a person before making a bad decision while thinking something like this, or worse, can’t happen to them.
Wife#2:
From what I read of Noras experience, she has not made any damaging statements about you or any of the kids.
None of the story states names or location.
She can place what she wishes on her FB page….and i’m a bit curious why you are looking at it?
Why would anyone look at it, unless they are interested?
I think your aware, you have no legal leg to stand on…..or you would have stomped your legal might and shut it down….already, and not threatened it.
She has not diagnosed him, she stated what she suspects, based on HER experiences with this toxic person in her life.
Keyword there…..HER life….NOT yours.
If it’s not what you believe, so be it, that would be your belief.
She did not withhold anything you claim. She stated she has posted on several websites. There is no deciet there.
To me, it sounds as if you may be doing a bit of damage control. (for yourself with this man)
Your the one who told ‘bedtime’ stories to Nora.
I guess the lesson here is…….be careful what you say…..AND to whom.
Loose lips sink ships!
You should know…..there is nothing mightier than a scorned woman.
I certainly don’t think it behooves you to come on here and attempt a counter control of Nora.
This is NOT the place for that.
Since you haven’t been addressed or identified on Lf by Nora……take your beef somewhere else.
One suggestion……when you want something to ‘go away’…..stop feeding it, stop addressing it…..and as we say on LF…..NO CONTACT is best.
Go NC with Nora and remove YOURSELF from this situation.
Good luck with your decisions.
BellaPrinciPesa
And just an after thought, you know even though you say you do not need us, that you have lots of support….it is still very hard sometimes to TELL the people in our lives that support us, that’s why expressing here and reading here can really help
Is it possible you have underestimated the hurt and pain you endured at the hands of this man? and from that viewpoint I can see how ridiculous it seems that Nora after “only” 2 months of him was that bad…but what if she really was .
I hear a desperation underneath your post (maybe its my own) a kind of disbelief, that this man was that bad, and you were with him for 6 years. What if you are just as hurt if not more, but you handled it very differently…I would love to ask you about your own experience and leave Nora out of it, but I guess that’s your private space and I respect your request for total anonymity. Bless you and especially to all the kids in the middle.
Dear Wife#2,
One of the “truths” that we hold here at LoveFraud is that we do not disparage anyone else’s pain. Their pain is what they say it is. If they say it is bad, we say OK, you say your pain is bad. We do not try to INVALIDATE anyone else’s feelings.
Your FEELINGS are your own. They are what you SAY THEY ARE.
You say you are angry and I can hear that. You say you are not angry at us—well, we could sure not tell from how you were displaying your anger.
Thhink for a minute if you would. If we were sitting on our own front porch just chatting away and you came up on our porch UNINVITED and started SCREAMING at how angry you were at our next door neighbor and what a stupid liar she was and how she had smeared you all over the neighborhood and you didn’t appreciate it at all….how do you think we would have felt?
Well, in effect, coming here screaming about your anger and calling “Nora” names because of what you perceived she did or is doing to you is not polite. IF SHE IS, as you say, all those things, then she is GETTING YOUR ATTENTION AND PITHING YOU OFF which is what she is trying (you say) to do, so you are GIVING HER ATTENTION which is what you say she wants, so why do you keep doing it?
Please either sit down quietly with us here on the “Porch” and discuss this in a healthy and caring way, let us extend to you the same compassion we extended to anyone who says they are “hurt”—and help each other heal, not scream names and vengence.
This is OUR SAFE PLACE, and people who bring discord here are not welcome to do so, so please, if you want to blog here, do so, but in a compassionate and KIND and PEACEFUL WAY.
Stumbled across this by accident, a male victim of a situation very similar to “Nora’s”.
First of all, let me say that intelligent, mature adults know there are two sides to every story. After reading through this, it would be very interesting if we removed wife#1 and wife#2’s stories from this, and actually hear from Nora on how this man treated her- just HER experiences, without any hearsay “facts” she obtained from others- just HER 4 month experience with this man.
Second- bringing children, adults or not, into a public forum such as this, is just plain inappropriate and wrong, any accredited counselor will tell you that. No accredited counselor would ever tell anyone to bash someone in front of their children, ever.
Thirdly- This is a healing process? When I went through therapy, with an accredited, degreed professional. Several different in fact, they all advised to forgive, forget, and move on- that it was the quickest and HEALTHIEST way to move on. I would caution all of you, unless you are professionally trained counselors, to be very careful giving advice to “Nora”- you could do much more harm than good.
Fourth- If this man was in a committed relationship for thirty years and another for 6 years, it seems he has commitment capability. Why did he ask her to leave after just 2 months? What happened, what triggered this uncharacteristic action on his part? “Nora”, whether intentional or not, had to provoke in some manner to result in him reacting in this way. Common sense needs to be used here. That would be interesting to hear from “Nora”, which we have not.
I made the same mistake as “Nora”, not once, but twice- marrying before I really knew that person. But I accept responsibility for that that was MY fault and bad decision, it was not theirs. I control what I do; no one else, therefore the blame rests squarely on MY shoulders.
I have checked “Nora’s” other websites, and they are not open forums such as this, she strictly monitors and edits what is posted, you will find no opinions that disagree with hers. The amount of time and energy that is expended on these must be enormous! After a 2 month marriage? This smells an awful lot like a vendetta/smear campaign more than a healing process, as someone else said, this should be a safe and kind place, which I do not see any kindness here at all. I would ask all of you, step back, try and be objective, remove the hearsay “evidence”, and see what’s left. Seems pretty obsessive/compulsive/sociopathic when you look at “Nora’s” story under that light. And not the one she’s accusing either!
“Nora”, it would be very interesting to hear just YOUR experiences with this so-called monster- how he treated you- was there abuse of any kind? If he is a true sociopath as you accuse, what did he gain from you? Financial? Possessions? What were his motives?
Just a male opinion ladies-
Good Luck to you all. Have a blessed day.
Dear Canned Spam (love your name by the way!) welcome to LF. You make some very good points about sometimes there is a vendetta involved with someone’s story—there are FREQUENT cases of TWO PSYCHOPATHS or at least two very DYSFUNCTIONAL PEOPLE getting together and of course they FIGHT and eventually one “whips the Tar out of” the other one, and the one who is “beaten” presents as a VICTIM, POOOOOOOOR ME!!! I WAS ABUSED!
One of the things a psychopath (or very disordered person if you prefer) does is to PRESENT AS A VICTIM. That way they hook in to someone who has a “caretaking gene” and wants to help the poor down trodden one. BEEN THERE DONE THAT, got a closet full of TEE SHIRTS, both lovers and family, so I’ve got lots of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in presenting myself as savior of the poor abused victim only to be turned into a VICTIM myself. I have stopped doing this.
I AM a retired medical and mental health professional and before I retired had a license to diagnose and treat mental health problems….there are other therapists and mental health professionals here whose smarts and licenses far out ranked what I had before retirement. In case you haven’t noticed there are some VERY sharp folks here, which is one of the reasons I like this blog.
When a blogger comes here and writes their story, we do not go back and verify what they say, there is no reasonable way to do so first off, secondly, if that person is a psychopath masking as a victim, they are their own worst enemy and they will usually show their COLORS and be recognized for what they are.
Even those that present as victims when in fact they are CO-ABUSERS there is still a great deal to be learned from their experience.
1) don’t JUMP QUICKLY INTO ANY RELATIONSHIP it will probably turn out badly if you do. That’s a GREAT LESSON.
2) Not everything is what it appears at first. Another GREAT LESSON
And I could go on with various lessons that stick out from her story—true or not, there are things there to learn from.
ON THIS site she did not name names nor identify either her X-husband or her x-husband’s x wives, so as far as I am concerned, she has not violated anyone’s confidentiality. I wouldn’t want to go there, but if she had posted a link on her FB page to this blog—that’s her right. Her X husband is welcome to sue her if he thinks she did this maliciously to damage him and can prove that he was damaged by this. It is difficult but if NONE OF THIS IS TRUE, then he will be able to make her take it down. (at least whatever identifies him) since on THIS blog he, she nor the first 2 wives are identified, I see NO damgage.
If she IS angry and vengeful I can understand that feeling, I have felt that way toward the psychopaths that cost me a fourth of my retirement savings, and my sanity and ALMOST cost me my VERY LIFE. I had to flee my home for almost a year. I am no longer angry and vengeful, but part of the reason I am not is because I came HERE TO HEAL, not to BASH.
Wife #2 is angry, I hear that, and her anger is HERS, but when she or anyone else comes here to FLAME others (nora or anyone else) then she is intruding into MY SAFE SPACE where there is compassion, comfort, acceptencew and caring. She is disrupting the peace that is here for me, and for others.
I CANNOT judge between these two women, I can’t validate that Nora is “stupid” as #2 called her, or anything else.
Actually I think that wife #2 has behaved inappropriately in her flaming and bashing. Whether Nora has behaved in appropriately I have no way to judge.
Nora has NOT responded to #2 wife and I am glad she has not responded here, but has sat out this CAT FIGHT. In my book, she has shown grace and NO CVONTACT which is the best way to respond to an attack that can’t really hurt you.
I tried to respond in a compassionate way to Wife #2, and to explain that her venting and raging here is not appropriate and that even if it was, there is nothing we know about this situation except what is on the screen. We do NOT know (nor want to know) the real names of any of these people.
The only purpose of this site is to show understanding and compassion and to educate people about healing after an encounter with a psychopath which though we are not responsible for what they did, we ARE responsible for allowing it to continue long term. WHY did we do that? How can we see and recognize the RED FLAGS of a psychopath, what do we need to change about ourselves to make us safer? Those are all questions that we explore.
Healing starts out about THEM but ends up about US.
I suggest you read Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s search for meaning” which he wrote after his 4 years or so in the Nazi war camps, and the psychololgical views he had of the other inmates and himself who lost everything. This is a very kind and compassionate book that helps us to cope with the terrible losses we suffered.
Sure people will tell you to “just get over it and move on” but that is generally NOT a helpful comment because psychopaths don’t just kill or maime the body, the rape the soul!
Peer support is a wonderful thing because your peers do understand what you have gone through.
There is a lot of great information here, both scientific and subjective. Hang around and read some of the archived articles, you might be quite suprised at what a wide variety of people and ideas are here, and support for healing. Not everyone heals at the same rate either, BTW.
Oxy,
kudos for your responses in this thread. as the dupe of several sock puppets i need to weigh in and say we need to be aware that we could possibly end up needing a really big shoe in this circumstance.
one step
Dear One_step,
Through the years medical personnel have “judged whether” a person who presented to a practitioner with “pain”was really IN pain or “just wanting drugs.”
Now, I understand that some folks are addicted to Rx pain killers etc. but at the same time, HOW DOES SOMEONE JUDGE SOMETHING SUJECTIVE LIKE PAIN?
BTW they have found that there is a GENETIC component to how one feels/tolerates pain! SUPRISE? NOT!!!!
Anyway, now you may notice when you go to a doctor’s appointment they may ask you to rate if you have pain on a scale of 1 to 10.
Pain management can be with drugs or other techniques, but a patient’s complaint of “pain” is taken at THEIR ASSESSMENT of what it is rather than just “judged” by the practitioner.
I think it behooves us here to let people EXPRESS their own level of pain, but at the same time, DONNA does not approve of or allow one person to FLAME another. That is why this blog is as good as it is.
I believe wife #2 is in pain. She acts like she is in pain and she attributes her pain to “Nora’s” behavior. Is it real? Yes because #2 says it is. Is nora’s pain real? Yes, because she says it is.
Does that give either one of them the “right” to come here and throw a fit? NO. So I am done talking about it, I’ve said my peace and this is DONNA’s blog so if there is any more to be said, Donna can say it. I tried to validate each person’s version of their “pain” without invalidating the others. They are NOT mutually exclusive.
I apologize if I offended anyone on here, that was not my intentions.
I encourage you all to re-read wife#2’s comments – was she not “duped” by Nora, thinking her input would be held in strict confidentiality ? And the names may be changed here, but if you review her other sites, they are not – anyone who views this can also see them with just the slightest bit of research. I applaud her for going “against the grain here”, she also is a victim – be objective here if this is in fact an open forum.
I’ll leave you be ladies, it’s quite obvious male opinions are not welcome here, or differing opinions at all. Open forum ?
Good Luck to you all, and have a blessed day.
oxy – completely and utterly off topic; a friend just sent this to me: http://www.baudetsdubreuil.fr/photos-gallery.html
WOW!!!! One step, I’m gonna have to change Hairy’s name to NOT HAIRY BY COMPARISON!!! Gosh, I can’t believe how MUCH hair those guys have compared to my guys!~ They look like long-earred buffalos sheading! Thanks I haven’t had time to go over the entire site yet, but that is just TOO COOL!
The heat index here today is 106 and even letting the dog in and out of the house is terrible heat blast when you open the door.
Mama Gem, I’m comning t6o your house3 where it is starting to be winter! Me and Fat and Hairy are starting to head your way tonight—ah carp, I dare not swim them through the OIL SLICK that is the Gulf of Mexico so I guess I will have to cancel the trip unless I can fly them first class without carry on luggage, I’m sure not gonna fly them coach—I’ll have to see about the fare!