By | June 2, 2010 94 Comments

Empathy among college students declines

A recent study analyzed data about 14,000 college students collected over 30 years. The shocking findings: today’s college students are 40 percent lower in empathy than students from 20 or 30 years ago.

Read Empathy: College students don’t have as much as they used to, on

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Ox Drover

This is a great artifcle! I’d like to see where tghe other LF posters scored on the empathy test quiestionjs. I scorfed higher than 90% of the college students on empatny.

My bet is that LF peeps will sore in the top percentile., The only one I gave a total NO to was the one that asked if there were “two sides to every story” which I have learned is one of those3 MYTH WE WERE TAUGHT AS CHILDREN. It assumes we mean two VALID sides to every story which is NOT true!

Thanks donna, hope you guys will take the test and list your scores. I think it would be very interesting.

My reasoning for the decrease in empathy in college kids is that many if not most have had long stretches VERY early in day care situations, rather than being raised at home by a caregiver who was more consistently there. Just my takre on it, like to see some other opinions.

Thanks Donna.


This was interesting.
……I scored in the 80%.

The soft hearted question was the one I would have answered ‘pre spath experience’…differently.

So much of me has hardened…..although there is a little ‘mush’ still in there.


96.8% ……and I won’t ever change….EXCEPT….I have VERY STRONG boundaries now.

I had a BRICK wall…a few months ago….now I just have a very healhty “fence”.

Ox Drover

It is interesting to me how I would have answered pre-enlightenment.

Oh,, I just got in touch with the writer that wrote the4 ONE news article about my P son’s victim that I have. I can’t find any more on interenet searches BUT the girl who was a staff writer then, I got into contadct with her (she has an unusual name and is still a journalst soI found her)

She gve me the number of the Texas state senator who was called oon an illegal cell phone from a death row inmate! So I contacted said senator by e mail just now. If I don’t hear back positively from him or one of his minions then will call his office—I hope that he will be able and willing to lean on the parole board about P son as well.

I’ve really decided I am not going to go for an Article in the news papers about “mother seeks NO parole for son” because that might WARN them. As it is, they cannot be sure that I DID indeed hire an attorney or go before the parole board and they might just think it was an “empty promise” or “empty threat” on my part cause they can’t by law know for sure, but a news article would get word to them I am sure.


Scored 82.9%, higher than 70% of the college graduates. Pre-sociopath, I would have probably scored close to 100%. LOL!

I agree with Oxy, I no longer think there are two sides to every story, I sometimes do have trouble feeling sorry for someone’s problems if they are a sociopath. I feel a little sorry, in the way I feel sorry about having to kill a scorpion. And when I’m sure I’m right (about a sociopath), I will NOT waste time listening to other arguments from the sociopath, etc.

I’ve changed….no doubt about it. But I think the test itself is flawed in that it buys into notions that only work in a sociopath free world….and it would be great to think that today’s college students are more sociopath aware and that is why they score lower. I DO think they are more cynical. How could they not be with Tiger Woods, all the politicians cheating and getting caught in lies, etc. So maybe that is what the test is picking up on.


I’m very sad to read these findings. I feel that maybe kindness, altruism is on the decline and it really seems to be more about getting one over on each other. Not for me, ever…i’d be happy to die out with the empaths than survive with the psychopaths.

Ox Drover

I don’t know WHAT exactly to attribute the decline in empathy (in this group of people as gaged by this test) to in our society over the past 20-30 years, but I DO think it is more broad spread than JUST this group of our citizens. I think the decline of empathy is more general. MY own OPINION is the lack of bonding in children exposed to more “day care” and less “parenting” early on, as well as the influence of consistently VIOLENT media for the majority of the last 30+ years, and increasingly so.

I read an article recently in PsychologyToday on line about three different kinds of sex, the “hook up” sex that is just “animal sex” without any emotional connection, just like two kiids playing with each other’s bodies as the toys, and “married sex” which can be some connection but also could be used to bargain for various things, or to punish but is over all fairly connected. The third kiind of sex is “soul mate” connectedness of emotions.

I think the “hook up sex” has become very common in today’s society, and “soul mate sex” much more rare. As far as marriage is concerned, 50% of the first marriages end in divorce and the committment to marriage doesn’t seem to be all that strong in most segments of society. Second marriages are 75% doomed to failure. So where is committment to relationships? Why do people choose instead to serially cohabit with (many?) people fairly quickly rather than get to really know someone and marry and make a commitment for life?

I know so many people that have married 3-4-5 times and/or cohabited with 5-10 various people. Somehow this just doesn’t seem like it should be anywhere close to “good” much less ideal. Where does that leave children who are raised in such “relationships”?

I’m not throwing stones at anyone, I’ve not been a “model” for relationships myself and have been divorced (against my will) and have had sex outside of committed relationships, yet we still some how WANT that “soul mate” but I know very few people who ever really found it. I do know some pretty good and long lasting marriages though.

The over all feeling I get from the results of this study is sadness at our society.


The questions seem kind of easy to game, depending on whether a person is more concerned about seeing cold or seeming like an easy sucker. As in, a hard-core P could take this and probably score 100% by lying if they so chose. I remember in my first week of college, all the freshmen gave money to panhandlers. By the third month, no one was giving money to the same drugged up panhandlers who kept bugging us every day. Was their empathy decreased, or did they just realize they were being used? Still, I’d be concerned about the ones that indicated tendencies to do things like not attempt to see others’ perspectives.

I think there’s a balance between narcissism and codependency. A society that is unwilling to tolerate sociopaths’ BS pity ploys is, imho, a good thing. A society that tolerates or worse independently initiates sociopathic evil is a bad thing.


Scored 97.1%. I agree with neveragain’s idea of collage age kids being more cynical. Some of it is healthy and some is jaded.

My college age daughter has been committment phobic, she backs out of relationships when they get too serious. I think this has something to do with trust but she does have empathy. She is more level headed and can see the forest for the trees so would put up with less than me.

Empathy can be taught but some of it is genetic. My son was born with tons of empathy while my middle daughter learned it and grew into it. Parents have a big impact on teaching empathy to children. Daughter was a little like her dad and I was afraid that she would be as manipulative as he was. She bossed her brother around a bunch. She would kick the dog off of her bed at night (around 1st grade), now she is mortified that she did that to Corky.

The question I asked was “How would you like it if______did that to you?”

My older daughter was teased on the bus in middle school. It was pretty hard on her, but I got upset with her when she saw someone else being teased in high school and she did nothing about it. Step up. If you put yourself in their shoes, you should know to step up and just say “cut it out”.

After the disillusionment of learning what the husband really is and what some people are capable of, the empathy factor should technically go down. Just hope to use the information to make better judgements on any future relationships.


I got a little perspective on the subject a few years back by reading Generation Me: Why Today’s Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled–and More Miserable Than Ever Before and also The Marketing of Evil. Both very good reads that target the moral decline of society.
(Here is an article that touches on what the Generation Me book says.)

When I initially talked to my daughters of the exBF S, and said that it is believed that they are 4% of the population, my college age daughter thought about it and said she knows a couple of people that could probably qualify.

Ox Drover

Thanks for the link Shana,, a good one.

Hope4, empathy is not a bad thing, it is just that we must not let it overcome our common sense or allow abuse.


They are reporting on CNN Headline News that Natalee Holloway suspect, Joran Van Der Sloot, is wanted for the murder of a 21 year-old woman in Peru.
There is video of Van Der Sloot and this woman leaving the casino together in Peru and also entering the hotel room together.
She was found stabbed to death in the hotel room.
He has fled the country.
I hope they can prosecute him this time.


Makes me sick!!!! I am SO afraid to let my girls go ANYWHERE ……omg..
A woman in my best friends’ town Pt.Pleasant, was on the news crying…Her daughter’s first year in college in Arizona..some guy killed her walking home to her dorm!!!
Then in Atlantic City…a guy is abducted in a parking garage…car burnt…found dead nearby…They caught the guy and woman who did it…all for his ATM card!!!!
This is a SICK world we live in!!!
I have girls and I am SO scared for them. OMG

Ox Drover

I have felt that Joran guy was a liar from the get go…yes, it is frustrating when someone whose family has “influence” can get away with ANYTHING—or if they are famous. Sometimes they keep it up until eventually their families can’t protect them any more. Looks like that may be the case here, BUT how many more women does he have to kill before he is taken off the street?

The news reports make us feel unsafe, and to the point sometimes that I think that because there is so much reported, that we tend to ignore COMMON sense and go to areas which are not safe or to take fewer good-sense precautions.

I won’t live in terror, but I am going to exercise a reasonable amount of precautions. It’s all any of us can do.


72,9% – still higher than the students.
The media/ news make our kids numb. It’s something that happens OUT there / not to them. They don’t feel with their 6 senses. It’s “not real” or as “real” as a shooting game

My ex would score 100% no doubt. He would lie every step of the way.

My kids shocked me today. I plan a vacation for once in 10years – alone, and their only response is: “You should not be spending money. you should be saving for our college” It hurt so bad. No, they aren’t psychopathic, but they do expect it all to be catered by their single working Mom. And – I have no right to “take away from their future”. It was so simple to them, so well put, I even began feeling really guilty… And then I offered them boot camp. They are now happy with me gone 🙁 It wasn’t that they did not care that I need a vacation. It was more like I “should not take away from the family”. Ha, I said – what have you contributed. And – on and on and on. Sad. I’d never have the heart to challenge my parent in that way.


In the country. Where population is low, the percentage of disordered is low too.

If I can count the people around, I can pick the 5 % out.

Way I figure it. And there is more room for German Shepherds!


I think the 5%cannot be applied across the board. I am sure in the Western world the % is higher; the more individualistic society – the higher the secondary psychopathy (sorry, can’t remember who said it first, but I agree)

Ox Drover

Dear Getting it,

YOU DO ***NOT*** OWE your kids a college education. The day they turn 18 everything you have GIVEN them is DONE, unless out of love you WISH to help them, but if they do not APPRECIATE what you do for them after 18, OH WELL!!! Then they can work and get their own college education!

Just like some kids think mom and dad **owe** them a car the day they turn 16—BULL HOCKEY!

We owe it to our kids to feed, nurture, and house our kids when they are little, and to teach them to take care of themselves as adults. Adult=age 18, so anything after age 18 is a GIFT, not an ENTITLEMENT.

So if your kids think you are not entitled to a vacation with the MONEY YOU HAVE EARNED, then you need to teach them some RESPECT about what they are ENTITLED TO and what they are NOT entitled to! IMHO!


Dear Getting-it. I just can second Oxy, please go on your vacation. Teach them something about boundaries, and about looking well after oneself, even be able to do something silly every once in a while.

You do not owe them any explanation; even if you plan to go on a first class trip around the world or on a cruise on Sea Cloud ;-).

When they are worried about college tuition, make a business plan with them, so that they can contribute as well by getting small jobs and the like. So it is a wonderful opportunity for them to learn about savings, and to see where the money comes from (it comes from YOUR hard work, it does not grow on trees, and it has to be honored and must not be spent carelessly; as you have to be aknowledged to be able to raise kids on your own!).

If you do not put a halt on their demands NOW, they will step on your boundaries again and again!

So you do a favor to yourself and to the kids by going to the holidays! Enjoy! No remorse, no regrets!


I was just looking up the spelling of his name to post about Van Der Sloot.

HOW MANY peeps does ‘it’ have to harm for coverups to be exposed?

The blood is on ARUBA!!!


My score was 97.1% also, but I am very passionate about this subject. I teach my own kids and my students as much as possible about having feelings for others. What makes you or anyone better than another human? The Bible is big on this topic as well when it says God is not a respector of persons. In fact Jesus saved his most pointed criticism to those who thought themselves to be “something” of themselves. Oxy I think your opinion of the 18 and done with kids might be American biased as it is typical for families in other countries to live with their parents, or other family members for much longer if they choose without any negative stigmas. Some countries do a better job of promoting family better although many of those are now being “Americanized”, so it probably follows that they are becoming less empathetic as well. Sad. In the Philippines younger children address older ones with a title of respect, and they are taught to respect their elders with a gesture of blessing upon greeting. I think this stuff could be taught. Hope it is not too late….


Ah, thank you guys for the support. I finally got through to them that yes, I have the right to rest and enjoy, but will always look out for their interests and will not leave them college – less. It’s refreshing in a way to know that they care so much about their education. But, of course, I should have done a better job in a “respect department.” (but, Oxy, I did read your post out loud to them and it did make them think)
I do feel guilty because I had put them through too much at a very young age. When these kids warned me about P I took his side and for that I will forever feel guilty. I chose to believe his lies. They say they forgave me, but I can see how now they doubt solidity and soundness of my decisions. Therapy was interesting – they pretended that they have no issues with the whole situation, did not want another stranger in their lives. Just wanted to move on…

Ox Drover

Dear Teacher,

I still have a 30+ son living with me. He is NOT dependent on me though. My kids have worked AND contributed part of their income to the HOUSEHOLD since age 15. Housework is a family affair, and not a paid job.

Helping a kid is one thing, but letting the child DEMAND that you go without things (even a vacation) to give them a HIGH RIDE or a higher education ON DEMAND, nah, I’m not going there. I Have NO problem HELPING my offspring get an education or anything else, but them DEMANDING without any concern or respect for my own needs is another matter entirely.

One of my favorite parables of Jesus is his about the Publican and the pharisee standing in the Temple to pray and the Pharisee was thanking God that he wasn’t like that “sinner there” and was looking down on the publican and congratulating himself on what a GOOD MAN he was. I remember in a Bible study once many years before a very humble man who was our teacher said, “You know, Sometimes I have said to God, “thank you God that I am not conceited like that Pharisee!” LOL

I realized then that too many times I have slapped myself on my own back for being “better than that Pharisee” LOL

My “18 and done” was that that is all that we are OBLIGATED by law to do—so anything we do after that is out of LOVE not legal obligation. But, to me, if the “child” does not have respect for us and/or realize and acknowledge it is out of LOVE not obligation—then the problem is THEIR sense of ENTITLEMENT!

I do wish there was more “respect” shown, not only from younger to older, or from student to teacher, child to parent, but there are a lot of things that seem to have decayed in our culture in my life time. The times, they are a-changing!

But we can find examples in literature over 3,000 years old about how children no longer respect their parents, etc. (shrug shoulders here) so I guess it has always been a problem! LOL

Ox Drover

Dear Getting it,

It is difficult to trust yourself again too after making poor decisions, I know I didn’t TRUST MYSELF to make good decisions. So I’m having to learn to trust ME too, so I do understand why your kids would have to learn to trust you again as well.

But the time comes when we ALL make some poor decisions. I do hope that your kids DO want a college education and to get on in life in a good way, but it takes work on their part as well as yours!

If you teach your kids to be independent and self-sustaining then you have been a good parent! And they will be good adults! We must learn to love and care for ourselves and provide our own happiness and esteem! God bless you and your kids!


98.6! Does that mean I have a target for S’s on my head? I really need to harden up I think. For gods sake I never thought that feeling bad for others etc etc was a set up for a miserable life.

Ox Drover

Dear AussieLisa,

Yea, that’s pretty much a TARGET there on your forehead, but it is NOT a TATTOO, you can reframe it!

Get you some of the books recommended here on LF AND get you some reading on BOUNDARIES and learn about what YOU are responsible for doing for others. And believe me, except for very young children, it is NOT much.

Practice letting others DO for themselves. Pick up their own clothes off the floor if they flling them there. If you have been DOINGfor others for a long time, when you STOP they will howl and cry just like a liter of pups that mama is trying to wean, but there comes a time when everyone has to stop sucking off her teats and same-O with us. (((hugs((((

Dani S

I remember reading not so long ago a article on Empathy & the Media. The article was about the over exposure of Media in our lives today causing the population to became more desensitized. From current affairs, news programs and TV shows, sitcoms and cartoons being very different from when we were kids. The leave it Beaver days are well and truly over. Most night of the week have murder type cop programs on and the kids show’s are basically brats disrespecting parents.
Bring back The Love Boat I say lol

I remember my daughter years ago when she was about 4 watching the news and a athelete won a big race and she turned to me and said ” mummy did she die” and I said “no what makes you say that” and she said because everyone on the news dies.

Even though born with Empathy, I believe it is still learnt. I have always made sure my children talk to people less fortunate themselves and always give to the needy, even thou after the spath we have not much ourselves. We also volonteer are time to a Animal Shelter and the children find it very rewarding! 🙂

But in a world full of violence that appears to be on the radio’s on TV daily it is no wonder the younger ones are not feeling the empathy. You kind of switch off when over exposed, the way I switched off for survival when I was with the spath!

Dani S

75.5 I scored, so proud of myself lol I have come along way…. ooh i forgot to mention the video games as well!! so long pac man, the kiddies have no interest unless they can shoot it and it spurts out blood!

Ox Drover

Dear Dani,

I totally agree with you 110%. The people who advertize do so because it influences people’s purchases, yet, those same people will tell you that VIOLENT and gorey video games and movies don’t ‘INFLUENCE” kid’s (and adults’) outlooks or attitudes. DUH!

Being around something does desensitize you against it, ask any med student what s/he felt the first time they watched someone cut into a human body, what do they feel now?

When I was a kid I had problems with the blood and smells at butchering times when the neighbors came together to kill hogs and process meat, plus, I had usually made a “pet” out of our family’s hog, so was all upset about that. Now, I have NO problem at butchering any more, can eat a sandwich, joke and laugh and do what has to be done, even though I raised that animal. Maybe even bottle fed it or took it to the fair.

I think that providing my own meat doesn’t make me insensitive to suffering of animals, though, because I DO care about a LIVE animal being scared or in pain.

But just as a soldier is desensitized to seeiiing battle gore, I think our children are desensitized in even a broader way and at an AGE where it is more difficult for them to not let that desensitization of violence be more generally applied.


Fraud at all levels forces us to teach less empathy, more mistrust and a desensitivity to the plight of humans and animals lest our young should themselves be victims, but the reality of the world we will be in because of it is a colder place than our generation knew.

We were taught to be helpful and giving because the world we grew up in thought that was a good value.

To what extent were women in our generation socially set up for exploitation? I might pose the question as to how many of us were merely in the right place at the righttime to be targeted by this 5% and what made us more vulnerable is history in childhood of abusive relationships.

We were desensitized to the abuse and in turn our children become desensitized to pain.

Somewhere in the crossection is what is true, but that is an average of personal experience, not an incident….


Interesting article, and a subject that I’ve been considering for the past 6 years, or so.

When I returned to college the second time, I saw some of the most disturbing behaviors among my fellow students of “appropriate” ages (17-30) that included all-out disrespect for their professors, text messaging during lectures, arriving late for class and disrupting lectures/demonstrations without a qualm, and general meanness towards other students.

There also seemed to be a pervasive undercurrent of domestic violence among the teenagers. There were often verbal assaults on the campus, as well as physical fights, especially among young women. This, among other things, was absolutely disgusting to me to watch these outrageous catfights between college students, and usually over some BOY (not man).

There was a general attitude of “entitlement” among most of the students. The majority (60%) were attending college via grants and special programs due to their ethnic background, entrance scores, and other criteria.

To make this last observation very clear, we were not eligible for any financial aid and, as a result, WERE supposedly eligible for the campus “book share” program: students who were not receiving financial aid could borrow the books for the semester and return them, in good order, rather than spend 600+ for the required book scam.

While sitting in the office of this progam director, she glanced at her computer screen, looked at my spouse and me, looked back at the screen and then announced that we were NOT eligible for the book share program, either. When asked why we weren’t, the explanation nearly knocked us out of our seats. “You both scored too high on the entrance exams, and you don’t mee ‘other criteria,'” was her verbatim explanation.

Entitlement. Violence. (sigh) And, it seems that it’s only getting worse.


I scored 87% (61 out of 70) which made me more empathic than around 90% of college students. =)


Joran Van Der Sloot has been arrested in Chile, and his hair is the same orange color that Scott Peterson’s was when he got picked up.

What’s up with the orange hair on these sociopathic killers?
Is that supposed to be a disguise of some kind?

Ox Drover

I’ve seen all the interviews with him, even the secret one made in the car where he “confesses” and of course changes his story once again! Yea, this guy is a Scot/Drew Peterson CLONE. I hope they catch him, Peru may not be quite a happy for him as Aruba was. How is this piece of dog doo affording to GLOBE TROT? Daddy’s money, huh?

Well, I hope they nail his butt this time, maybe daddy’s money can’t bail his sorry butt out this time.


CNN Headline News just labeled Joran Van Der Sloot a very dangerous psychopath & anti-social personality, because of the rage and violence that was taken out on this 21 year-old girl in Peru.
I guess this poor girl was beaten and mutilated beyond recognition.

Apparently, that’s what it takes for the media to say the word “Psychopath”.

This perception that Psychopath = Serial Killer needs to change, because it’s obviously too late to call him a “dangerous psychopath” now.
At least it is for the 2 girls who have been killed and their families.


There are “dangerous psychopaths” taking out their rage and aggression on their innocent children, family members, and co-workers as we speak.

Just because they are not killing in the physical sense does not mean the devastation is any less.

These psychopaths are killing the souls of their children, and what they could have grown up to be.
They are in our churches with sinister agendas, and in our corporations and government promoting a culture of corruption.

For some reason, we are willing to overlook the COVERT violence, and only recognize the OVERT violence as that of a psychopath.

This infuriates me….and saddens me.
It’s going to take A LOT of work to educate the public, and change the perceptions that are entrenched in society regarding personality disorders.


A brief comment… I think the media desensitizes young people today. They see so many shocking things in the media.. think about it.. what truly is shocking anymore?

If everything is normal, then what would cause a person to empathize with others painful situations?

Remember September 11th? I recall watching so much news that when they were showing people jumping to their death to avoid burning to death, my brain did not register what I was looking at as disturbing at first. Then, suddenly, I realized the horror of what I was seeing.

Also… cell phones. Cell phones breed Narcissism. It’s all about ME and MY VERY IMPORTANT CALLS! Never mind you, stranger, enjoying your shopping time or day at the park… it’s all about ME ME ME ME ME! What was that? I’m sorry.. I was just getting a text here… it’s says “what are you doing?” I need to answer that…”Nothing.. what are you doing?” Okay.. now what were you saying about your best friend dying? I’m all ears! Wait hang on…. text… text… text.


These are some great comment’s and insights form you lady’s, I agree so much with aloha on the cell phones, I once had to listen to a woman screaming for a divorce because her husband bought a new car without asking her, and this was at walmart while I was grocery shopping. And living in a college town I see so many young airheads texting and and driving exspensive cars that daddy’s money is paying for. I get alot of attitude or totally ignored from young college age kids because my hair is white and I am nothing but an old man to these overindulged gumchewing bleached blondes driving bmw’s and lexus’ AND HUMMER’S, I have been behind them at sonic and they pay for a drink with a credit card. Ocassionally I drive thru campus and the majority of them guys and girls are walking around texting or on cell phones. It’s not just college age kid’s either its pre-teens and grade schoolers..they dont notice anything around them, head down texting..I know I am ranting on like the old white haired man that I am but what has happened and what will it be like 50 years from now?
And yes Ox is right on! about Vanderslut and Daddy’s money, I just bet ya daddy knew he was guilty all the time……
And Rosa I see young kids being verbaly abused and neglected all the time by parents that have no business raising a dog let alone a human baby…I was thinking the other day when I do meet someone that seem’s to be a genuine good person and they give me honest good vibes I appreciate that moment with them so much, even if it was just a howdee do and I never see them again it is a good moment…


I noticed the orange buzz cut hair too! I thought….dude….if your hair is that short….you ain’t hiding w/o a wig.
It didn’t sound as if he thought anyone was looking for him, judging by his chit chat with the cabbies who eventually recognized him. He was freely telling them he was from Aruba blah, blah, me, me…..

I also heard the psychs talking about personality disorders and was glad Nancy grace didn’t shut them down!

The one thing is……news has to be sensationalized…..
Our stories wouldn’t make it on the evening news or CNN unless it was a murder or such……and there is so much of this killiing crap going on that it fills the air waves…..and the minutes up…….
if they had no news to speak about……then yes, they would do a story about one of ‘our’ abuses and travesties…..and HOW we made it oiut alive…..but that is not NEAR as rating qualifying as if we were killed and how we were killed.

I’m thankful the words are coming out…….it’s a good start, although I wish it was applied more to the non murdering types.

I’ve got to go……i’m coloring my hair orange and trimming it short tonight!


His orange hair will match the orange jumpsuit. 🙂
He could not have planned that one any better…



Ox Drover

Dear Rosa and Aloha, and Henry, absolutely!!!!! And now that they are “labeling” him the P-word, it will reinforce that Ps are serial killers….

Aloha, you are so right about the people jumping from the buildings, not really so “exciting,” right? I’ve seen CLOSE UPS of people’s faces every night as they jump from buildings or in movies–heck, it wasn’t all that exciting, you couldn’t even see the expressions on their faces, it was just a long distance shot, no REAL excitement–right? (tongue in cheek here guys)

As our society becomes more jaded, it seems like the Roman “games”—starts out as a sports event, and eventually the people are BORED by wrestling, so now they want BLOOD. Look at how over the last 10-20 years VIOLENT sports on television and so on have increased in VIOLENCE and blood. What is Nascar? Just hours and hours of boredom between crashes. Football has gotten so violent most of the players are cripples by the time they are 30, look at the way most of the “sports” figures that are in violent sports are hurt, boxers blind or brain damaged, football players in Junior High now with head and brain injuries, “respected” sports figures using DRUGS. They wouldn’t let people treat race horses like they treat our kids in sports, and still everyone is out there to WIN!

How much excitement is enough? How much sex? How many drugs? How many texts? How much loud noise? Where is the appreciation of time alone? comtemplation? Where is the joy of reading? Writing? Painting? Creation? Friendship? PEACE?

I agree with you about the cell phones, Henry. Scares the heck out of me seeing people going down the road driving AND texting at 80 MPH!


As for Vanderboy, I was happy to read that Geraldo Rivera had described him years ago as a sociopathic personality who objectified women– during the Natalie Holloway investigation.

I am thinking these are not his only 2 victims…he is too arrogant. I understand Peruvian prison accomodations will suit him nicely. Maybe he will meet some locals who dont appreciate his status and save the courts some time.


I recall hearing something about a sexual assault in EU. after Natalie H. disappeared and he went back. That also disappeared quickly.

Now that daddy-o lead spath is dead…..this will get interesting!

Ox Drover

Yes, I saw in the NYT report that daddy was dead, so I guess sonny boy is out having a fling with daddy-o’s estate. Said he was there for some poker tournament–duh??? Well, I bet one thing, he didn’t get a winning hand this time!

I’m like flower, I don’t think this is his SECOND killing. Notice too how he has RAMPED up his violence in this and his arrogance of doing it in HIS ROOM and leaving the body there in the room he had booked! I mean, cooooommme on! Talk about arrogance! Yea, I betya Peru’s prison accomodations are really plush! But I do know one thing, a lot of prison accomodations and “justice” can be purchased with enough money, sort of like Aruba, ya’ kno”?


Yeah but…..her daddy is an affluent business man…..and I think this time HER daddy is gonna ENSURE he’s ‘taken care of’.

It was reported that her eyeball was missing from her head.
Sounded absurdly violent, her injuries….broken neck and all.
So very sad!

Wonder if the date meant anything to him……exact same day as Natalie H was killed. (missing).

And NO… much traveling as he seems to do…..and his entitled to whatever he feels…..I wager on more victims.

Wonder how the peruvian legal system works…..
Swift, death, corrupt, poverty????

I bet we won’t be seeing mom come out for this one…..
She seemed controlled by both men….father and son.
I think he and daddy buried NH in their back yard. Which means Mommy can NEVER sell that property before she moves the body.
Karma got pops in the end…..

So sad for this peruvian girl and her family…..

Ox Drover

I saw the girl’s father on the news this morning.

Peru has a judge who will assign investigation (the news said 6-9 months) then a 3-judge panel will hear evidence. No death penalty there but they can consider evidence from Aruba the news said. He will not make bail because he fled.

So looks like he is FRIED. Also he is apparently making money selling stories to news companies. He was also being “set up” by Nat’s family with a potential big pay out but he had to come to US to collect—he got nabbed in Peru before he could go through with it. The news said he was “making money” on all these news story scams etc. What a PRINCE!

They also mentioned the bleach job on his hair, ah la Scottie boy!


I think divorce makes people more skeptical/jaded, whether it’s their own or their parents’. I wonder how much that plays a role in this survey.


sweetcynic, I agree – especially, when one (or, both) parent uses their children as a weapon or a go-between.


Breaking News…

Joran Van Der Sloot has confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru.

Looks like they got him this time.

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