By | September 3, 2008 134 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 1)

Editor’s note: The following essay was submitted by Lovefraud reader “Presseject.” This is part one of his story. Part two will be posted tomorrow.

By Presseject

A little over three months ago I had my heart ripped out from me. It happened suddenly and there are few words I can use to describe the pain I felt as dreams, hopes and even what I thought was my own sanity seemed to disappear quickly in a crushing instant that reverberated with off-the-scale emotional aftershocks for weeks into months afterwards. I suffered nearly two months of an awful nerve-wracking traumatic stress reaction, a hypervigilence that has finally recently lessened its grip on me. The Internet, along with my own participation, had provided me with what I have recently learned has many names but all very similar descriptions: a sociopath, a pathological narcissist, a sociopath “parading” as a narcissist, a man with antisocial personality disorder, a bad man, a bad egg, a loser. Many of the words describing this personality disorder I had never known much about, but as I pieced the crime together, these are the words that truly stuck. These were the words and the beginnings of an understanding that began act as tools to help me dig myself out of a very dark and deeply painful pit.

Just as the Internet had been a tool to help me find a perfectly destructive relationship, it was also ironically a perfectly powerful tool to help me recover. I found and this is where my mind found the sanity I thought I had lost, and to reconnect to the soul I thought had been nearly taken out of me. It even has helped to restore my heart, the part of me that has always given, that now wishes again to give and to be loved. With this site primarily, with the many caring individuals who have also survived this emotional battlefield and contribute here, my hopes for the possibility for my heart to become strong again has become a tender new reality.

I feel I am somewhat not your typical visitor to Lovefraud. I am a man who fell for another man. An accomplished man who found another successful man. I enjoyed a romance period that seemed like something from a beautiful movie, but in the end, I paid a heavy price to release myself from a strange hypnotic web spun by this man’s narcissistic needs and sexual desire disguised for six months as true love. At the time, it was all spontaneous and carefree. I learned afterwards pure impulsiveness is a defining characteristic of a sociopath (especially in reading Dr. Robert Hare’s excellent writings based on his 30 years of experience). I thought I had found a fun friend from a lost happy childhood perhaps. But these were two grown adults both ready at a second to take a trip, eat ice cream, take a long walk on a secluded beach, tour a museum, watch an intellectual film, make love and talk each night on the phone for over six months. I was hooked as many others have been that write into Lovefraud, but as I came to see, we were all mislead. It is this slow process of “unhooking” now that I am still involved in as I write. It makes sense to me, as part of this healing process, to share with others here the signs of my own progress that point towards a real hope of restoration, of healing that can take place when so little is left to hold onto. Again, without the warm, and at times angelic voices I found here at Lovefraud, I might still be lost in a stormy sea of tears.

I could describe all his shortcomings to you and there were many that came to light after it ended. But there are a few key things that some might find useful. Foremost, this man had been married, has two grown sons, and had once owned a very large corporation. He sold this large company, divorced his wife and built himself a huge mansion in which he was the star innkeeper renting it out on occasion to guests that he could dazzle with the toys on his estate. I fell for these shiny things too when I came to visit. He also gave me what many have described as the “pity play” (Dr. Martha Stout’s book “Sociopath Next Door” contains this important description). Examples of this beautifully constructed (like a glistening web) pity play were that his wife had been “abusive” towards him, self destructive and an alcoholic, he had tried to have a relationship with a man who cheated on him and nearly gave him AIDS, his sons had pulled away from him, no one else “could talk with him the way I could,” etc, etc. (I now wonder about this poor woman that could not possibly have had any life-affirming love from this man, who buckled under alcohol addiction to “escape” the “mental cage” he must have kept her in.) Ultimately, I fell for this (purely self-centered and guiltless) pity play as I have always been a kind man with an extra large heart, filled with compassion and empathy. In the gravest of ironies, I had fallen for a man with quite the exact opposite set of values, or, really a complete lack or black hole void of higher values other than his immediate needs.

His calm, carefree exterior disguised the fact he registered zero on the empathy meter. I was also distracted from this fact by the (impulsive and self serving ) “gifts” (which were also somehow kind of “off” since, without empathy, a gift can oddly miss the mark and not feel personalized) along with the spontaneous trips and what I thought was his sincere interest in the affairs of my life. I learned recently that sociopaths can “mock” listen with words that sound like interest, but that in their mind, I would only have been a source of supply to their narcissistic needs. I was put on a pedestal, the compliments were intense but also in an odd, broken record kind of way, rather repetitive. There were times I had an uneasy feeling, but I often ignored my instinct which told me he wasn’t “quite right.” But that pervasive “charm” that so many describe here was powerful! My initial explanation for this attraction to this kind of deceptive charm is that I have been a worrier a lot of my life and to be around one who never seemed to have any deep worries was very liberating to me. (There is, however, a deeper explanation to be found towards the end of what I am sharing here). And, it seemed only good things were possible with him, that there were no limits to what we could do as a couple. When it ended suddenly, you can see why shattered dreams like this built on the freedom from fears can hurt so much. Yet, through my recovery, I learned some important things about myself that helped me to understand how I had let myself escape into this fantasy land of romance with someone who simply wasn’t capable. Healing this part of myself has taken the most amount of work, it is something I am dedicated to now, as others are here. This site is where I come back for support and quick reminders stay out of the pit and not to wax forlorn.

I have learned to be gentle with myself, letting go of the voices in me that told me I was defective for falling into this. I read many passages here and elsewhere about forgiveness. The key to forgiving I found started with myself first. It just can’t be done the other way around. I wasn’t able to think “I forgive him” for a long time until I found I needed to forgive myself first. In fact, this will be essential to me for finding a better way to live the rest of my life now as it cuts through many layers of pain I have kept with me for so many years. (I learned about my own pattern of connecting to those that are not connected to others, a long seres of toxic relationships sadly, and how these seem to be related to my abusive childhood.) And the only way I got to this point was through prayer, through reaching out for help to a higher power.

This reaching out was a decision I made when I first found out the “impossible innkeeper” had “other guests” he was soliciting about three months ago… (yes, I discovered on his laptop emails from a dating/sex site that led me to question). I played detective and found the site he was on and sure enough saw a very active pattern. It was at this crucial turning point I turned to God to help me to confront and question the very foundation of the tangle I had found myself in. By turning to a higher power, I have been able to walk through this and away from this (I was actually spit out by this predator when I confronted him in the most gentle of questioning then. It was your classic instant “devalue and discard.” Typical, is it not!) And it is to this same higher power that I return each day. Each day is step away from the abuse and each day is a step closer towards love from above that I can take with me and share how I see fit. Yes, it is about finding our self worth this way, of setting boundaries and learning about healthy relationships. Just like the “impossible innkeeper,” I had been, in my own lost way, soliciting visitors to my heart allowing myself to be just an accommodation to them and not much more. I followed this journey into the darkest place of pain to see I finally had some choices other than being a victim, a caretaker, or an “object.”

The darkest secrets that came to a useful light were not his, but my own. About ten years ago I was able to admit my father was/is an alcoholic. In my recent quest for answers, I learned the deeper truths about sociopathy and personality disorders and now better understand, and work on forgiving my father as one who had suffered the addictions and illogical abusive rages associated with borderline personality disorder. I realized his mother may also have been sociopathic, never validating him as a child etc. Sadly, in the midst of all my other despair from this most recent broken relationship, I essentially learned my own father had never been able to break his own prison of narcissism. And, having always sought his love, I began to see I was somehow “programmed” to accept other men into my life that fit his same mold, others that were smart and accomplished like my father but who, inside, also could not love with any depth.

Here I am finding a few tears as I write this last realization to share here with you. But this is how I am going forward. I too can be fearless, not to the point of using others, but when it comes to finding my own healing and loving others in a much more healthier way. Because I can connect to others, share an empathy with others like myself at this site, (thank you again so much to all who build this safe place of healing here). I know I can become a happier, stronger person in this awareness and not some fearless self-centered addicted maniac. There is hope. It is the awareness of healing I have only recently begun achieve for myself. It is powered by my faith in God. It is validated by God’s own supreme example of forgiveness and resurrection. Without this, I (we) would still be at war. I don’t need the weapons anymore. I am free to leave the battlefield and perhaps, by following God’s eternal example of grace, create peace.

I hope the healing power of Lovefraud continues to multiply. I see what kind of destruction is out there, how much we need support to make these kinds of changes in our lives. It can’t be done alone, most of us ARE human after all. Our strength is a shared strength. If any of my words can help another see a possible sign of hope for healing, the way others have shared their words here and have helped me to heal and to grow, then I will count this as a blessing. It is through giving we are seen and find validation, not from taking. I chose to walk this path now, sometimes with my hurt and pain, always in the direction of rising above this. Experiencing a person who couldn’t, can’t, and will never connect ultimately has helped me to connect… to good things I could never have imagined. My healing continues, I hope others are finding this as well.

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Bravo! Very good and thank you for sharing your deepest fears and emotional pain. How much I too can identify concerning many of the entries. That I too were “programmed” at a early age to confirm to a relationship doom to failure due to my own broken childhood and trying to love the unlovable. Waking up to the fact that most if not all of my past relationship were dysfunctional at best. Because I allow this to be so. I have no right to blame others for my own chooses in these dysfunctional relationships for now I can and understand how this is my own cross to bear alone! So again BRAVO!!!


I read your post and thought I wrote it myself. I hope to get to the place you are at, but I am still raging right now. As a gay man, it seems to me that our community is growing in acceptance of antisocial behavior because of the pervasive ignorance of these disorders. I feel that by refusing to accept this again in my life…I am the outcast. Glad to see there are a few other enlightened people out there.

Everytime I read an account of a sociopath, I put another piece in the puzzle.I too suffered obsessive worry, and with spath it was gone. I was “free.” It’s illusory though, as we know. Our obsessive worries are more human than their “carefree” attitude. They are “free spirits” because they do not care.

I read my spaths blog now out of a need for confirmation- he’s onto some new love….I can’t keep up- I think that makes one divorce and at least two r/s in one year I know of….anyways he’s “in love”….. and I realized as I read his words, that in the past would have delighted me in their ability to capture the sublime, I realized…it’s not real. NO ONE healthy, and not personality disorder, not to mention evil, segues into bliss that fast. And his bliss is not real. Real life is
discomfort, bills, boredom and the everyday…not one penultimate moment after the other. The irony about his lies re: new love is he feels nothing. Its the intial rush, the game and the drama of the crushing. Our sorrow over being used and abused is actaully a consolation- we are real.

Ox Drover

Dear Presseject,

Thank you so much for sharing your story so candidly and in such an insightful way.

While most of the posters on LF are women, and hetrosexual, I am also glad to know that our community here is more diverse than just “women”—I think the consiousness that it isn’t “just women” that or victimized, or just hetrosexuals, but ALL PEOPLE can be victimized, traumatized, and SUCKED in.

Victimization is ultimately very “democratic” it totally crosses line in society and is rampant in every socioeconomic, educational, sexual levels, and in all communities across the board.

I think it is important that ALL voices from all groups that are victimized be available on LF, and I sincerely thank you for posting your story here for others to identify with and to read. As long as this web site is up and available, your post will be there to comfort ALL others. Thank you again.



I LOVE your screen name! LOVE IT!

What a beautiful post.. so raw and real. I applaud you for sharing so fully.

This knocked me out: “I had been, in my own lost way, soliciting visitors to my heart allowing myself to be just an accommodation to them and not much more.”

Oh how I get that! I want so much more for myself now.

Here’s to your continued healing…

XO Aloha


James, powerten, holywatersalt, Oxdrover, alohatraveler, to each of you, thank you! The compassion at this site is tangible, it is healing. I have read your comments too in other threads, and wish to thank you each for what you contribute to the site.

James, you are right, it is our own responsibility to heal our hearts. The shock and pain from my encounter with this S was so severe, in a way a real wake up call. I wish you luck in your own progress. I sense your devotion to this new direction too and admire your courage.

powerten, I know the frustration you are expressing. I don’t think it is something unique to the community as far as accepting antisocial behavior. As OxDrver mentions above, it is pervasive in all communities, societies, etc. I would not have fully understood this kind of pain had I not experienced it, so in this sense it is something that requires education, but also something not easily communicated. In the gay community, there are many who have not only been victimized by abusive childhood experiences but also in a society that is slowly learning to grant equal rights. There is a kind of unity or association by stigma. These men are of course not all sociopathic but often very hurt and protective and understandably distrustful. Narcissism too can be found and it serves as a type of barrier, a kind of defensive protection if you will. I have witnessed this too and find it very draining after awhile. But the encounter with a true sociopath, one who has NO empathy is quite different from those that are hard to reach and protective. I thought I had found the more typical kind of guy afraid to share deeper feelings until I found out this was an impossibility! And then found that no logic could even be applied! I wish you luck in finding peace within and with those whom you choose to associate with. It can be done.

holywatersalt, I sense you are stronger than this from reading your other posts. My S also has a very elaborate website. It is all about HIM! I was taken in at first. I found it unusual that after dating many months and all the hundreds of photos he took of me, of us, not ONE of the pics ever ended up in his personal website. The sons, the property, the HOUSE were all featured along with his entire story of his corporate success. I asked him once why I/we had not been included. He had no real answer for me. I could go back to check on his superficial life there at the site, but I have chosen not to. This follows the idea of No Contact. There is nothing for me learn by going back, but much to learn by going forward. I hope this happens for you as well.

OxDrover, I have gained much from reading your other posts, thank you. Your kind of insightful determination has really helped me here as others have too. Thank you for validating this (awful but real) experience. It didn’t matter who and what the person’s sexuality was when reading about other’s experiences here. It is all the same kind of heartbreak and shock. It knows no boundaries.

alohatraveler, I have also counted on your helpful posts too during this time. Did you know your words were out there in cyberspace helping to heal someone’s heart? Thanks for your good wishes. I guess I should have a sign made up now “No Vacancy!” (I am busy inside here repairing my heart, cleaning up the mess and tied up on the phone with a long conversation with God…)

As you can see I am truly grateful for all who help make the site so welcoming and informative… Thank you Donna Andersen especially.

Ox Drover

Dear Presseject,

I am so glad that you are so far along this road to recovery that we all walk. For people who have never really had a “good thumping” before, this road is a scary place, a painful place, and to me at least, I think the spiritual damage that they do to us is worse than all the other damage combined.

So many times I have seen the Ps destroy the spirit and soul of people, and I confess it almost destroyed me. It was only by digging deep within myself that I realized I COULD over come this. God has been good to me in so many many ways, and at this point in the process I can see that though “a new life” is a painful labor, just as giving birth is a “painful labor,” in the end, we come out on the other side ready for new directions, new happinesses, etc.

This “new life” that we give “birth” to by our own labors, our own straining and our own pains is so much better than living in the darkness in pain. With God as our “birthing coach” telling us to breathe and to push, and holding our hands, we can be “born again” in a most intimate and wonderful way. We can have a new appreciation for all the blessings that we have, and for the beauty that is in this life. When we are in such deep pain it is difficult to realize that there even can be joy and love in life again. Without the darkness, we could never truly appreciate the light. Peace.


Peace, OxDrover, & thank you again. It is ironic in a way. I had made a lot of personal progress in my life just before this encounter. I was beginning to question what would be a healthy relationship for me. To follow your analogy, I was ready to give birth! (smiling here)… Little did I know I would need to walk through a disaster to find deeper answers. I read about the hypervigilence too as something natural that happens within the animal kingdom. I believe it is the body’s way of keeping us alert, and to be extra careful with (and learn about) a dangerous kind of situation. I had to learn, I had to find sense to this, the pain was too much to try to ignore. If this is how we are to find a new life, then I am accepting. My old patterns were just not so great. Thanks for this comparison, it too gives me hope.

Ox Drover

Dear Presseject,

I have recommended it before but I think you, especially, might profit from Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book, “Man’s Search for Meaning”—it was a godsend to me. His spiritual take on suffering is so profound I still tear up when I read some passages in it. It is pretty well out of print, but available on some used book sites on the net for a couple of dollars.

The first time I guess I truly noticed what “hypervigilence” was was with my P son in the visiting room of the prison several years ago when I visited him. He seldom made eye contact with me when he was sitting at a table with me during a “contact” visit, his eyes were continually scanning the room. It was disconcerting at first, very much so. I had never realized at that time that speaking to someone with such “odd” body language could be so distracting. Then I finally figured out what it was–hypervigilence. I had “seen it before”–though not to that extent– back when he was a teenager.

Watching animals, both predator animals and prey animals and animals that are both predator and prey to larger animals gives some interesting insights into hypervigilence as well.

Presseject, it sounds to me like you are making some great progress in delivering the “new you”—and nurturing that being into the kind of person that you want you to be. I’m working very hard now to “raise myself” in the “nurture and admonition of the Lord” as well. The nice thing too is that we are not our internal child’s “single parent” either because we have a Heavenly Father that helps us to nurture and guide our “child.” God Bless.


Presseject… terrific post, thank you so much for sharing your story.

Powerten.. you are so right, society IN GENERAL is becoming more accepting of sociopathic or just downright uncaring behavior. Even listening to my teenagers I hear it every day : Oh get over it! Got an issue, here’s a tissue.

holywatersalt: You are so right as usual. We are real, and that’s why we can’t share in their “ultimate freedom trip” .. that insight is rather freeing in and of itself and thank you for it.


Hello Presseject,

Sociopaths are not biased, except to people who catch on immediately and refuse to put up with their crap. Big, small, white, black, hetro, gay, male, female, they will smell you out. I am sorry for your situation and your pain. However, I think I am finally starting to understand what someone said to me about my pain maybe one day being able to help someone else. I have peeked and written on this site a few times. However, I am having computer problems (I think my soon to be x put some kind of spyware and location finder on it before I left) so I can not check things out as often as I would like.
Your words…Black hole void of higher values, exact opposite set of values, self centered guiltless self pity play, emotional aftershock and nerve wracking traumatic stress……all set me off on another 8 point Richter scale poor me episode. In 7 days I will be attending my final divorce hearing telephonically as I had to leave the state to feel a little safer. After everything that had happened ..the usual…lying,metal bars, 4 dead bolt locks on the front door, screws to “secure the windows and 2×4’s on the back door, not letting me work, staging a break in where only my things (the things that meant the most to me) were stolen to teach me a lesson so I would stay home and not work, in regards to physical relations being told EVERY TIME “I know you do not like it / or want me to but I am going to F%^$%k you anyway”….I still am thinking “I HAVE 7 DAYS TO MAKE THIS MARRIAGE WORK”…I can do it, I know I can. I am tough..even though I have lost almost 30lbs and now only weigh 98 lbs I can stand up to him. I can LEARN TO ACCEPT UNEXCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR”. How can someone who I weighted on hand and foot 24 hours a day, do everything but wipe his butt and chew his food, used up all my savings and got rid of almost all my belongings to be with…now not want a thing to do with me. How dare I leave him. He put a roof over my head and food in my mouth…something I had always done for myself before he came along and then when I get the GUT”S to ESCAPE and go to a shelter he changed all the locks on the door again and removed over 260 boxes from our home.

I feel like I am going crazy. I have been waking up at 3:45 am every morning for the past 3 weeks. My head and heart are pounding like I had 20 cups of coffee. At our early resolution hearing he never submitted the paper work to the courts or me and stated that he was sick…because of all this..that he was going to have to sell everything and move to a “assisted living place” and that he was going to loose his job. He made over a hundred thousand dollars last year and If I needed $ for bills I had to ask. At the hearing I was asked by the commissioner (HER) if I wanted my things why did I not get them when I left.. I said with all due respect…I did not leave..I escaped. I was then told I had to call my husband the very next Monday (He was going to be gone on a company trip to Mexico) and let him know when I would get my things. Someone called after they heard what was said and said that he has consistently been one of the top 10 sales people in the company and that he just came back from another big trip on a fishing expo. He could care less that I barter for my rent, have to rely on food pantry’s have only found part time work and recently ended up in a Auto accident. He is already on a site looking “for someone who will love him unconditionally, someone who has peace and serenity in their life and surprise, surprise…He is listed as being single.
How do I quit hating myself for letting this happen. I use to work in corrections and for 10 years dealt with convicted felons, murders, sex offenders and I was never ever afraid to confront them. Why did’nt I say anything? Why dose he now hate me? My mind will not stop. It does this even in my sleep?

I am so sorry to ramble but I do not know how I am going to make it through the next 7 days,,or for the rest of my life. If you give someone your very VERY best and it still is not good enough…what can you look forward to. How can you ever ever trust again. I am afraid I will turn into a sociopath.


Dear Presseject: “They” are all as you describe … and NO you didn’t do anything to him. He will treat you poorly, no matter what his excuse is for this week or next… this year or next.

Keep your head held high … stay on this site, read the articles and what others have written … pray to God for helping you through this chaotic time. Write to us, someone will always write back.

Be good to yourself. Pamper yourself right now. My favorite was bubble baths or soaking for hours in my hot tub … not thinking … just relaxing.

The beginning of finding out what “they” aka “he” is/are all about is excruciating to say the least. HE can’t love. You can. He can’t be responsible. You can. He can’t tell the truth. You can. Are you getting my drift here … it’s not you, it’s him. He’s an illusion. He has so many things wrong with him … no amount of your love can fix it. He can only fix himself … and he has to admit that he has a problem in the first place to start the process of fixing himself.



okay, i’m an idiot.
i called my s/p today (blocked my number) and when he answered he sounded SO happy. it … i …ruined my day. i haven’t done this in a while, but i occasionally slip in to a mindset where i just want to know he’s miserable. i also think it has to do with the fact that i would always call him with my number blocked and he would answer all sweet, but then, when he would hear it was me he’d yell, “why are you calling me!” so i’d ask, ‘well, who did you think it was!?!?” uh, duh. he had ALL the women he was dealing with call him this way!!!
he was waiting for a different female to call, and he would get annoyed if it was me (unless, of course, he wanted it to be me). sigh.
sooooooo, he sounded all sweet and happy. damn! so now i can torture myself with all the imaginings of what’s going on (just like the good ol’ days!), who he’s with (who ISN’T he with?) blah blah.
damn, i was doing SO well yesterday.


yes, we all gave our very best and it wasn’t good enough.
we just gave it to the wrong people; people who have no concept of giving. the crazy feeling will dissipate with NC; and strangely i found that “looking away” is very helpful. at one point i felt that i could only look toward him, to what had happened, trying to make some sense of it all … to no avail.
but oddly, i one day had the sense that i could look away in a different direction … a direction where i was not being made crazy with lies, deceit, cruelty and dismissal. look away and see what else is around you. little things you liked to do but let go of so you could love the bastard a little more. i am just starting to realize i have LOTS of those things. move toward them again. those things represent who you are without him. you need to remember the wholeness, how you were okay before him.

wini is right. no amount of our — or anyone’s — love can fix them. they are abnormal, sick people with such self-loathing that they project(ile vomit) it all over us. is that what you want for yourself? no, sister, it’s not.
and yes, take care of yourself. i’m having a hard time with this since all i did was take care of him every second for the last six years. but … right now i have goopy dark golden brown hair coloring dripping down my ears!
be kind to yourself … and know that you are a whole and perfect child of god. look around and within to find the places that nurture your spirit.


“The beginning of finding out what “they” aka “he” is/are all about is excruciating to say the least. HE can’t love. You can. He can’t be responsible. You can. He can’t tell the truth. You can.”

Wini, thank you, these are helpful words that you are sharing. The beginning of finding out is indeed excruciating. Week after week I sat with the computer and digested (tears, disbelief, fear, confusion, panic, defeat, more tears). This site, far beyond any of the others, stood out. The descriptions others were sharing here fit so well. The healing words others have shared here helped me to see over the chaos and to sense a way out from the pain. I still have trouble trying to share my feelings about this with family and friends. Although they are compassionate, it seems the best are those that have endured and are able to shed a little light here. That is part of what inspired me to write to the site. I found healing here, my faith was helped along this way and in turn I felt it best to share how things had gone from…(dark awful grieving soul crushing pain) devastation to a faint sense of a pathway away from this. I am still on this pathway and able to walk with more and more dignity each day, a step at a time. It is a slow process. But the lessons I have come away with will help me.

I am humbled, yet I am able to rebuild, my heart was run over, but it has not been ruined. With help from this site, and with my growing trust in God above, I keep walking away from this now. My heart is healing here. Words from those I can not see; Wini, Oxdrover Aloha traveler, southernman, James, holy watersalt, powerten, and others who have stepped in to share comfort, wisdom and knowledge, have all made a difference. God bless each of you!

“If you give someone your very VERY best and it still is not good enough”what can you look forward to.”

Molly, I know this feeling. I am sorry to hear you are experiencing this right now. I can tell you what you can look forward to, if you choose to have a just bit of faith… you see, you are the one who gave the love. Yes, it was the best you could give. This doesn’t mean you have to stop giving this love. You have a chance now to give some of this love to yourself. It is important to do this, otherwise you will be at the mercy of those that love you and possibly those that do not. But if you start with yourself first, you will find you can be a part of your own healing and once you are aware of this, that you can make healthier choices for yourself. And, in time, you will begin to have a renewed spirit. It starts with YOU being kind to YOU. I couldn’t do this at first, I felt so hopeless. But I saw others here had made progress and I saw that there was hope. It is my hope you can see this same hope too. At least knowing you are not alone is a very good start here and I wish you luck in going forward.



Molly welcome and please stick around. There are such good people here and we are all helping each other.

I myself had a horrible day too LIG. I just couldn’t get him out of my mind.. how much I loved him, how much I still want him, but he’d rather be out there playing games with women, being rejected by some of them even, than have what we had.. makes me feel like we didn’t have anything at all.


Lostingrief – yep your an idiot – we all have done idiotic thing’s – Don’t do that again!!!! I know the street name and the neigborhood where (M) and his new (BF) live, but not the house number. I have fought myself manytime’s – sometime’s I want to go to that street and just drive around untill I see his vehicle (that I bought) but I have’nt and I won’t. What would I have to gain from seeing him [pretending] to be happy. And now after 5 month’s I could give a rat’s ass what he is up too. I am too busy living my life to let his life concern me. Yes I am moving on, I have been where you are – but please don’t call him just to hear if he is happy or not – even their voice’s are unreal.


presseject ( tears – disbelief – fear – confusion – panic – defeat – more tears) oh how I can relate with those emotion’s. There is something i read that helped with my confusion. “Optical Illusions; Autostereograms and Sociopaths” This is the purpose of frequent pity – ploys. It is emotionally impossible to simultaneouly pity yet suspect deceit. Your mind can do only one or the other. Presseject our heart’s will go on and on don’t lose faith in love.


henry: gee, that was blunt!!! : )
but your post was helpful: EVEN THEIR VOICES ARE UNREAL!!!
god, can that really be true!?! sure it can.
and i found out this morning he’s telling our mutual friends (who i cut contact with too — no NC, no info) that i cheated on him.
what a BASTARD!
are you SURE i can’t just call him one more time and tell him i KNOW that he’s smearing me?? is it what they do afterwards too? one more slap in the face?
what IS this???

Ox Drover

Dear LIG,

Yea, it was blunt of Henry, but I think I have to concur! NO CONTACT, none, nada, zip, zero is the ONLY WAY.

lOOK AT WHAT IT MADE YOU FEEL– your words “it ruined my day”—now, let me ask you, what did you get out of that call? It RUINED YOUR DAY.

When you make contact, and breakk NO contact it rips the scabs off the wounds.

In effect you are “stalking” him—

Sweetie, I think it is UNIVERSAL for us to want to know what is going on with them, but it RENTS them SPACE IN OUR HEADS. YOU ARE GIVING HIM CONTROL OVER YOUR LIFE AGAIN. If he sounds happy you are miserable, if he sounds miserable, you are happy.

OKAAAAY, then WHO has control over your life, you or him?

There is no one MAKING you call him, you are choosing to call him so that HE CAN CONTROL HOW YOU FEEL.

Believe me, I kept writing to my P-son, I wanted to KNOW, I wanted him to KNOW how I felt, and all it did was to make me feel worse. I kept begging my mother, literally on my KNEES to believe me, to k now how she was hurting me, hurting herself, that she was in danger, and all it did was to HURT ME even more.

TAKE CONTROL OF YOURSELF, don’t give control to him any more! You CAN do it.

Besides, you know he is not going to admit the truth—THEY ARE THE LIE. Live in the truth, and put the LIE behind you. (((hugs)))) BOINK! (that’s the sound of the iron skillet on your head LIG–but as my dad used to say “this is hurting me more than it is you” ((ha ha))


what is this? it’s an encounter with the worst kind – your dealing with evil – EVIL – PHYSCOPATH -= SOCIOPATH – yes I am blunt – stop looking in the past and start living your future – one life LIG – one chance – get it right this time –

Ox Drover

I already hit her with the skillet Henry! LOL


oxy I still have permanent bump’s on my head from your skillit – guess I am a little bit “too the point” but in hindsight i needed some skillit bumps and kick’s in the butt to get me out of neutral and into drive——I understand LIG’s behavior – I did the same thing – remember?

Ox Drover

Yea, Henry, I remember, but keep in mind that not everyone’s head is as hard as YOURs! LOL And everyone may not respond as well to a thump with a skillet as you do! ha ha

Glad you’re back home and I bet the doggies are too. What were you doing out there that was a working vacation? Looks like we are in for some more “hurricaiine rain” from Ike. We got 12 inches from the last one. Don’t really need any more, but have plenty of inside work to keep us busy while it rains but sure would like to get some of the outside work done before it gets too cold this fall.

Speaking of which,, I better get off my lazy behind and get to work and get a little bit done today outside while I can. Sure beats the heck out of 99% humidity and 99 degree temps. This old woman is too old and fat to work well under those conditions! I’m only good for ONE day in a ROW of HARD manual labor! ha ha


OWWWWW!!! but thanks ox … i’m better now. i just keep thinking that he will GET it; fat chance.
he couldn’t have known it was me calling. he has LOTS of females calling him restricted. but yes, it did make me miserable. and it did give him power and control.
and NO, that’s not okay.
so, i’m good now (save for the lump on my skull).


Dear lostingrief: “They” always tell everyone they meet that we are the bad people. Know that he is the LIE and don’t take any of what he says or does to heart…

My EX told me that his ex-wife cheated on him, lied, stole, destroyed the kids well being, was abusive to them, yadda, yadda, yaddda … wanted to marry another man (a dying best friend’s husband) … all lies, lies, lies, I’m sure … she (his ex-wife) still believes other woman are to blame for his actions, never talking with me … (only assuming I’m the monster in all this … not knowing he is the LIE) has only said two sentences in her life to me … when we accidentally (in hindsight I’m sure my EX set this meeting up on purpose, but that’s irrelevant now at this time … it’s all nonsense from start to finish with the likes of him (them) … bumped into her while shopping and she met me for the first time she said “oh, you must be Wini”… the second time we talked was 8 years later at my EX’s mom’s wake, she came over to give her condolences to her ex-husband and me, first to him, then graciously to me … stating “I’m sorry for your loss Wini”.

In hindsight … being 20/20 I’m a positive that he kept us apart … telling his lies to her (controlling mechanism) and telling his lies to me (which I tried not to believe and I kept trying to talk with his ex to hear first hand, her side of the story) … Basically, they all use “divide and conquer” routines on everyone in their lives. I know he did this when he was dating his current wife (the girlfriend after me) … keeping us apart and I overheard him telling her what a witch/bitch I was … while he snuck off downstairs in the office – side room from the rest of the house … whispering in the phone to her how much he loved her and what a miserable person I was and how he couldn’t wait to fly back home to her (different states – she’s in Texas).

Moral of this story – the TRUTH, no matter how painful it is … will set you free … Freedom to live a beautiful and serene ife.



wini The truth will set you free ‘but first it will piss you off’

Ox Drover

Dear LIG,

Well, I’m glad you are doing better! When we break NC even a “little bit” it always bites us in the butt—I have scars and teeth marks all over mine, believe me. The last time I had contact with my mother I thought I could handle it and BAMMMM! BIG BITE in the butt—OUCH. I wish Henry had been around to BOINK me with one of his three iron skillets BEFORE I did it, so I wouldn’t have had to BITE AND THE BOINK! Bless your heart, sweetie, you got both! LOL (((hugs))))


Henry, Henry, Henry … no shorter phrase spoken was so true. It’s human to go through a zillion emotions (they are our roller coaster rides – don’t have to go to Conney Island with the likes of them in the world) … it’s getting your favorite emotion, that you are comfortable with … back in sinc that counts. They knock us off balance … leave us as roadkill, and hope that we for ever more stay as miserable as them. But, none of us on this site will allow that to happen … will we?

How are you doing? Better I hope. I was listening to some Jazz last night as I wrote you to put some music on … whatever your favorite is… I like all GOOD music. What comes from the artists hearts and souls. Rock, soul, R&B, Jazz, Motown, Blues, Bluegrass, C&W, you name something good, I can get into it …. love, love, love music.



Wini can I call you weeny? Yes I have a zillion emotion’s, I just unleashed a few on another thread. Sometime’s I ask myself if we just label people that have hurt us with something that sound’s bad. Maybe we are just poor loser’s and don’t like rejection. But I have endured bad behavior from people that I loved, people that I thought loved me. I have suffered emotional, mental and physical pain at the hand’s of people that I loved? You are right wini, evil people are every where, not just in our home’s and our bed’s but next door, down the street. It’s about time we realize this. We have to look out for them – something about us attract’s them like fly’s on chit….duh….and I can still be a loving compassionate caring human – now that I have pulled my head out of the sand – I know that truly evil spirited people are everywhere – and I know good people are everywhere – I attract them also – it’s sad that sometime’s it take’s a life time to see the truth – and yeah I am pissed off at my ignorance – but finally I am free – I own my spirit – and I am gonna fly with it. I love music all kinds of music – but rap is not music – and heavy metal hurt’s my ear’s – gnite weeny


Dear LIG,
Oh how everyone is so right. NO CONTACT. If you happen to cross his path on the sidewalk, don’t even acknowledge him. It is really the only way. Time is on your side. The wounds are fresh now, but I promise you there WILL come a time when you will start to detach. In the meantime, when you start missing him or feeling angry, write about it here. But don’t contact him. It will just reopen the old wounds. You deserve to feel good and be happy. You are in the acute phase of grieving. It DOES pass. I never thought it would for me. When I was at my worst, I thought of him every minute of the day and felt like the lowest, most loathesome person because he rejected me. The thought of him wanting to be with another woman made me want to take my own life.

Now when I try to think about the times I slept with him, I don’t feel that bond like I used to. I remember it as an event but without all the longing. Never thought I’d see the day. You will get there too. Just hang in there. Please!!! You deserve so much better!


I am ok with NC, and it feels so much better.. .but I’m not so good with “fighting NC” where you are still sort of at war. I really wish I didn’t have to go to school right in the same town where my ex-bf works.. sigh

He wanted to call a truce, a truce feels ok but we can’t ever have peace.. I HATE that I can see him in the store with one of his “honies”, and it will just destroy my whole day. I HATE him having that much power over me.. I haven’t felt like that since I lost my very first BF at 15… grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


star: thanks so much for your kind words. NC for four weeks and two days now. it’s hard. when i get angry i want to call him and rage. when i miss him i want to call him and see if he still ‘loves me’. when i long for him i wonder if we can just be lovers and nothing else. when i think of what he did and how he did it, i just want him gone from the earth.
however, i’ve found so much comfort here and i’m doing pretty good considering he has been a part of my heart for 25 years. and only the last year has been bad. so, i wonder … can someone turn into a psychopath suddenly? when his mom (my best friend) died, he just turned into a monster, cheated relentlessly, treated me horribly, etc. before that he was definitely on the ‘leech’ side, but i never minded too much. i enjoyed loving him even though he wasn’t as ‘giving’ as i was.
since i was basically a member of his family for the past 25 years, i’m finding it very difficult that he just cut me off so dramatically and totally. i was his best friend, surrogate mother (i’m 10 yrs older than he), queen chick.
hard to believe he doesn’t miss me at all. for two-thirds of his life (and fully half of mine) we have been loving each other. was it ALL fake??? ALL OF IT??
god help me.


LIF, No a person doesn’t just suddenly turn into a psychopath. I don’t know if your ex is a P or not, but if you stop to think about it, whether he is or isn’t, what would you gain by raging at him, or being “just a physical lover” with him? Do you really want to allow yourself to be used by a man who did all those things to you? You’d still be emtionally invested whereas he wouldn’t be and you’d just be setting yourself up for more pain. All those emotions you are feeling are normal in order to work thru the grief process. But if you can hold firm to no contact you’ll avoid adding additional things to the list you end up having to also grief. If when you want to contact him, if you can just post and vent your feelings here instead, you’ll gradually work through some of your grief, although everyone works thru the process at their own pace. Good luck and hold firm, knowing you deserve better.


Dear LF Bloggers: I thought I’d share some of my searches pertaining to greed. Just something to think about when looking back at what your EX’s were all about. Maybe they aren’t nuts ” maybe, just maybe, they’re all GREEDY ” coming into our lives, taking what they could, when they depleted us ” they moved on to greener pastures ” getting what they want from that person ” then moving on again.

Jesus is famous for living in poverty and warning against having or wanting too much money.

The Gospel states, “Then he [Jesus] said, ‘Watch out!

Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions (Luke 12:15).'”

Other books in the New Testament explain further that worldly passions run counter to righteousness.

The book of James says, “What causes wars, and what causes fighting among you?

Is it not your passions that are at war in your members?

You desire and do not have; so you kill.

And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war.

You do not have, because you do not ask.

You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions (4:1-3).”


Hindu teachings about greed are similar to those of Buddhism.

As in Buddhism, Hindus regard greed as dangerous and believe that it results in a cycle of rebirth.

The law of karma, furthermore, says that greed is one of the primary causes of suffering in the world.

Avoiding greed, therefore, is one of Hinduism’s yamas, the restraints that Hindus observe in following Hindu dharma.

“A person is what his deep desire is.

It is the deepest desire in this life that shapes the life to come,” the Chandogya Upanishad says, warning that greed influences future rebirths.

The Bhagavad Gita also warns against greed: “For the man who forsakes all desires and abandons all pride of possession and of self reaches the goal of peace supreme.”

Peace to everyone … we’ll get through all their baloney they dumped in our lives. Think about how much stronger we are … think about the positives we acquired before and after “them”.

Ox Drover

Dear Wini,

Great Post!!! I find so much comfort in various religious texts (not just the Christian texts) and in philosophy.

GREED is a primary motivator to the Ps. “The ROOT OF ALL EVIL is the LOVE of money” NOt money itself, but the LOVE of money, the GREED for things.

There are different kinds of greed as well–and even normal people say for instance that work all the time to “provide for” their family, so much so that they neglect the family in other ways–that’s a sort of misplaced good intention that becomes greed of a sort.

And greed isn’t just about money, possessions, it can also be about control and sex and other things.

My P-son deciding to have me killed was all about GREED.

I wrote him a letter before all this mess happened and told him I had come up with the PERFECT WAY to divide up my late husband’s personal momentoes “fairly.” I would take the number of children (my two who my husband considered his) and his children and our adopted son. (total 8) and sort of deal out the stuff into those piles like a deck of cards being delt to 9 people. Then I would make Xerox copies of each of the piles so that the 8 who didn’t get THAT pile would at least have copies of what the others got, then we would have a lottery and each person could pick a number out of a “hat” and they got the number of the pile that they got. No one could then feel like I had been unfair to them or that the others got more. Or the things that they wanted.

My son wrote back and said, “OH mom, don’t do that, WAIT UNTIL I GET HOME, you are his wife, YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE FAIR” What he actually meant was, I WANT IT ALL.

Even from his prison cell he was so arrogant to think that HE was the “head of the family” and telling us how to run our lives, manage our money, his dad’s estate, etc. because it was ALL HIS and he was ENTITLED to it. I can look back now and actually laugh at his arrogance, because HE DOESN’T GET IT AT ALL. He is ENTITLED to nothing except a prison cell because THAT IS WHAT HE HAS EARNED A RIGHT TO. ONLY what he has earned the right to.

I was reading a book last night about a serial killer in England named Colin Pitchfork (yes, that was his name! LOL) and after his arrest (he was the first person convicted in the world by DNA evidence of murder) he was SO ARROGANT that as he was being led through a hall way by police and another police man stepped aside to give the room to pass, he said “Did you see the way he looked at me, he knows who I am?”

The author of the book, “The Blooding” was obviously one who “got it” about psychopaths and used many quotes from Robert Hare and others who had done work with psychopaths. Pitchfork was a “typical” psychopath except for the murders, he was a flasher, totally unfaithful to his wife, used others at work and a chronic liar, and filled with arrogance and totally a control freak. He arranged “accidents” for people he didn’t like, he tried to get people fired, etc.

This book was also about how the DNA test was developed and used which is quite interesting, and the detectives on these two murder cases in a small village in England actually took blood samples from almost 5,000 men in the area of the crime looking for the killer. Pitchfork got someone else to fake being him to donate, and later that story got out and he and the person who faked being him were both arrested.

DNA evidence had also eliminated another young man who had actually confessed to one of the murders and was going to be prosecuted for it. The DNA evidence cleared him of both crimes. (although he WAS a sexual predator, he was not THAT one that killed the two girls.)

Also, in the interviews with police, Pitchfork actually blamed the girl’s deaths on the girls, because when he flashed them, they didn’t run the direction he thought they would, and they could have identified him, so he was forced to kill them by the girls themselves. DUH!??? After all, he could’t leave a witness to his flashing now could he? Interesting book if you are interested in learning about psychopaths.


I must have a wacked sense of humor because as soon as I read that “Colin Pitchfork” name I had a fit of the giggles. Sounds like an interesting book, and I love to read, so I’ll order a copy of the book.

Ox Drover

Yea it really was a good book, Jen. I picked it up in a used bookstore–I get most of my reading material in the used book store as I am a book-a-holic and would bank rupt myself if I didnt, oh, I do order some off and amazon. LOL I just grabbed that one, thinking it was a mystery novel, but turned out to be entirely different. The author did a great job of “hiding” the bad guy so it was sort of a mystery till nearly the end. Yea, “pitchfork” was funny, and he lived on Haybarn lane—the author pointed that out too. LOL I love the names of streets and houses etc in England some of them are so “quaint.”

The author sure did “get it” about what Ps are all about, and I enjoyed that. He noticed about Pitchforks confession even, heh ad to be “In control” and “on stage” and the center of everyone’s attention. My P-son is like that, I have a bumper sticker that says “My son is an HONOR STUDENT at the state correctional facility” and that is the way he looks at it. HE is a SUCCESS in his environment—he SEES himself as a success.

The author also pointed out how Carol, pitchfork’s wife saw all kinds of red flags but didn’t know what they meant. She said she thought that stopping “flashing” was like stopping smoking or biting your nails, and no really big deal. The author also pointed out that when she started to get an education it upset her husband. He came from an educated family, and his 2 sibs had college degrees, but he dropped out of school and went to work at 16 as a baker. He continually put down people with an education and sure didn’t want CArol to get one. Any of that sound familiar? It was all a good read.


Not sure this fits in this post.. but I feel like a fraud for sure lately.. my ex-bf has been trying to get me to talk to him, and I’m so weak, so weak.. I want to rant and rave at him, and scream every angry name I can think of, pull out his beautiful hair, .. I am not even sure it’s legal to say all the stuff I want to do to him..

And I still am so tempted.. not to believe a word out of his lying mouth, but to hold him again….put my head on his chest and listen to his slow slow heartbeat (beta blockers) and cry my eyes out… I need to move on.. but all I want to do most of the time is crawl into a hole and die

I’m sure this has taken ten years off my life…


I have a problem, guys.. with taking my “life” back.. I’ve always had a problem with life, life is too scary for me, too boring, too hard, I need support, I am a good detail person but not good at taking the bull by the horns

Frankly.. I don’t have a life to TAKE back.. nothing ever really seems worth having or doing.. I absolutely can’t live with the pain and dysfunction of this last relationship.. but how do I deal with the fact that when I was with him in the beginning.. was the only time in my whole life that I ever felt fully alive?


Hello everyone,
Now that the subject of GREED/Money has come up.
My soon to be (EX)5 days and counting till the DIVORCE. I see so many similarities every time I read this sight which actually helps me to believe/admit that “HE” is a sociopath. Soon after I left my old life behind to start anew with him..I called it a leap of faith”, I have also called it my “Oprah Story”, he suddenly started going to auctions spending 1000’s of dollars every week end. before we got married he did tell me that he had not paid taxes for about 4 years because..”the whole tax thing is illegal and he could prove it”. I did not care and said that “if you want to marry me you have to start paying”. He did, I thought this was a good thing. Despite the fact that he made very good $ his agreement was for $1,000 a month. I was hoping he would pay more but instead he started spending all this $ at auctions. When I questioned how we could be spending all that money when “WE” owed so much, I was told it was none of my business and that I was not going to tell him how he could or could not spend “his”$. Suddenly I realized he was buying all this “stuff” so he could have me stay home and list the items on e bay. He never wanted me to work outside the home and if I did get a job it did not last very long because there would always be a reason I had to quit. I had always worked ever since I was 8 and had always taken care of myself. He had said to me…pack your bags..move here you can do what ever you want to do..for once in your life let someone take care of you(he knew I the doc’s had just found two types of brain tumors in my head)”I want you to take care of the house so all I have to do is focus on work” I agreed, but I did say I do not know if I will be able to handle not working. Suddenly, I realized he did not want me to do what ever I wanted to do, he wanted me to do what he wanted me to do.

My point 5 days I have a divorce hearing. I could not afford an attorney at our early resolution hearing he made it sound like he was sick and about to loose everything. So when I submitted my paper work I just said that I did not want to be responsible for any of his debt. I “escaped with only the few items I could fit into the back seat of my jeep. I slept in a basement of a friends house till I found a job where I was able to barter for an apartment. It is now furnished with things that friends and strangers have given to me. My cloths are from strangers and friends. He has gone on two trips and is not sick. He changed his contact info on instant messenger to say he was looking for someone who can love unconditionally and has peace and serenity in their lives.

I live week to week and have no savings and was just rear ended a couple weeks ago. Do I say I want half of everything which I am entitled to. Or do I walk away and just be thankful I am alive. Do I make myself more of a victim if I do not fight for what is rightfully mine? Do I give him more power if I cower?

How can I go from feeling like I am going to VOMIT one minute when I realize the fact that I gave my heart, soul, body to someone who could care less if I was alive. Someone who I waited on hand and foot, who’s every want and need I tried to anticipate 24 hours a day; to wanting to call and say I am sorry, please take me back. I promise I will listen.

For the last 3 weeks I keep waking up at 4 am the time I use to get up to start making him breakfast and lunch for work…I have been gone for almost 4 months. I am 46 years old and I feel like I am loosing my mind. No one returns my calls anymore. At a time when I need my friends and support system more than ever, everyone is backing away..which makes me feel more worthless. If someone who is supposedly sick can not love me…how will anyone else ever love me?????????????

If I gave my best and it was not good enough… what more can I possibly give to someone else…..????????


Dear Molly,

One, I’m glad you are away from him.
Two, if you did hire an attorney, give tell the attorney to get 1/2 of everything you two ever bought/made when you were married.
Three, read back through the blog to see what others are saying.
Four, not everyone in the world is Greedy, selfish, self centered and controlling … and any of those so-called friends of yours that no longer call you because of this breakup is a BLESSING in DISGUISE that they are no longer coming around and playing with your mind.

What you are going through is detox of all the bad people in your life. Missing them, but kicking yourself in the butt for being fooled by them.

Find the serenity in your time you are alone and with yourself (just you and God).

It is really healing. You don’t need greedy, selfish friends clouding your mind with their crazy selfish reality … you need that time to yourself to calm down, go quiet, focus on what you are all about again … starting from tonight, right now … what do you like and dislike? What do you want to do with your life? What kind of life do YOU want to create? On your own, without a selfish control freak making you jump through hoops for him, him, him (oh, did I say for him?).

You get what I’m saying i hope?

Love every minute that you have free time on your hands to just be with yourself.

Put your favorite music on and listen to it through the night (I love music). Blogg to us on LF, while your favorite music is playing in the background.

If you want company, rescue a pet from the pound. Animals love us unconditionally and don’t lie to us.



Kat – When you figure that out (your question) let me know and we will both take life by the horn’s. I think we have all the knowledge, it is like a recipe – we have all the ingredient’s to make sense of this – but when we apply them the cake still comes out a flop. It is the loss that we feel – that we can’t seem to get past. Yeah we know what he was. But why does it feel so unreal and real at the same time? Why do we despise them and miss them at the same time? I can apply all the ingredients – illusion – fantasy – mirrored – etc. I can grasp that I was used. No way in hell would I ever have him back – but what do we do with this hollow feeling? Find myself? well I am right here? I never went anywhere – except crazy. How long has it been Kat, since he left? Five months for me – maybe we are rushing this healing thing. But I am tired of myself – tired of all this hypervigilance. But I can honestly say – as compared to how I felt six months ago – I am recovering. I think what happen’s to us is our live’s have always been to please someone else and it is hard to be alone – because there is no point to return too. It’s like starting all over – and throwing away everything we ever believed in. And I feel like the screwed up person that f–ked up the whole fantasy – and if I had been better – then none of this would of happened. Kat we have to grab hold of something real – or what will happen too us?

Ox Drover

Dear Molly,

YOu didn’t say how long you were married to him, what you contributed financially to the marital assets, etc. but here is my opinion.

If you fight for half of what is legally “yours” then he will drag the thing out and you will “earn ” every $ you get. Sometimes it is just better and less stressful to take your life and be satisfied with getting that back. Sometimes it just itsn’t worth it to fight over $ and stuff. No, it doesn’t mean you are being more of a victim, it just means that STUFF isn’t as important as your peace of mind, and believe me I would “bet the farm” that the fight to get anything would be one hell of a scrap.

As for your friends backing away from you, sometimes that is what happens, and we realize that they didn’t care as much for us as we thought they did. The people who do hang with you, that care about you, that makes them even more prescious to us. Many times though, even people who do love us and care about us just “don’t get it” about a P and the devestation that they do to us, far beyond what would appear “normal.” This seems to be a common thread that none of our friends “get it”–but WE GET IT HERE AT LF, that’s for sure, because we have been through this wringer before.

Just think about the $ and stuf and make up your mind how bad you want it, and what “price” you are willing to pay and then decide if it is worth it or not.


Dear Kat,
The reason you are feeling that emptiness and lack of motivation for life is because you are grieving and in pain. You cannot wish yourself to suddenly want to do things. It will happen gradually as you release the pain and go through the grief. For me it began when I stumbled into a church one day to receive a blessing from an East Indian guru lady who was passing town for one day. She put her hand on my forehead and I sobbed for about 10 minutes. I was the only one in the church who was crying. She gave me some ashes to put on my tongue every night and day, which I did. Every time I did, I cried uncontrollably. I also had a friend who helped me, and I cried a lot with her. One day I just had no more tears to cry.

I still longed for the S for a long time, so I know how you all feel who are freshly hurt. I allowed myself to fantasize about the “love” we shared and the closeness. I daydreamed and daydreamed and let the fantasy reach its logical conclusion–that he would eventually lie to me and discard me again. After coming to this brick wall over and over in my mind, there was nothing else to do but let go. There was nowhere else to go. I imagined contacting him, and it always ended the same way–at a brick wall. It’s like a zen choan. You just get tired of thinking these futile thoughts over and over again. So you start to move on. Please don’t beat yourself up for thinking these things. They will pass in spite of yourselves.


I really do believe that in order to heal from the trauma we’ve all been through, we have to look to a much greater love than any love we’ve ever known. And we have to trust that love to help us through this. I know every night when I would lie down, I believed that Indian lady, Amma, would take my pain away. It helped me relax and let some of it go every night. I ran out of Amma’s ashes, and I panicked for a little while. But last weekend I dragged myself to a spiritual retreat of sorts. I was surrounded by the most loving people I’ve ever met in my life, and I allowed them to help me. I’m starting to feel like things are going to be okay. I have decided to keep these people in my life as a new family.

Hey Molly. My sociopath & I split up 4 months ago too. We were together 2 years. We weren’t married but he conned me into putting his name on the deed to my condo. Convinced me we were getting married. I had my attorney draw up a new deed for him to sign it back over but if history repeats itself, he may delay, stall, find excuses not to sign. Your ex may try to pull this stunt too. He may make up an excuse to the court to postpone the hearing. Just so he could have control over your mind and make you vomit some more. That’s what they do. Don’t buy into it. The court will only let him postpone so many times. You are not losing your mind. You lost you by being with the maniac. The guy I was with sabotaged a good job I had by calling ever hour to see if I was talking to guys at work. Eventually, I got fired. Then, he suggested we take time off from work since I got fired. He quit his job! This was just to keep an eye on me. We were out of work 6 month. we used up my life savings and spent the unemployment checks to work. When the money ran out and i was looking for a job, he wanted me to find a job where i worked out of the house. I couldn’t afford that. I found a great 6 mos consulting job to hold us over. This was a problem too. It was corporate office so I had to dress nice. He didn’t like the clothes I wore, didn’t want me to wear makeup, cut my hair. He timed how long it took to get from the office to home. Again, 10 calls at work a day. I wanted to go to school 2 nights a week and this was not acceptable. I used to go to music school for guitar once a week. He caused a scene at my recital and that was the end of that. I couldn’t go anywhere in public with him because he accused me of looking at guys. I stopped taking walks outside, gained 25 lbs because he would accuse me of not eating enough so I could keep my figure to attract guys. You want to laugh? One time I was watching a James Bond movie and he had a fit about the way I was looking at James Bond. LOL!!! Molly, I used to get up 2, 3, 4 am and vomit too. Here i was cooking, cleaning, working, paying for EVERYTHING (even the car he drove.) His son moved in and I supported him too! The sociopath would start a fight and go out to the other woman’s house. All the while, he had another woman set up right in town! Another home! A secret life! If I didn’t find out, it would still be going on. The week i caught him, he used my credit card at GNC to buy $100 worth of crap he takes for working out. He kissed me each morning and said, “I love you.” He referred to me as “fiance.”
Now I’m angry and won’t let him take my future happiness away. I’m getting back to me. I’m playing music again, talking walks, dropped 20 lbs, wear the clothes I like, got a makeover. I put my profile on just to get out and feel comfortable with myself again. It is nice to go out and just talk to new guys. My heart is not open to getting into another relationship right now, but it’s good practice. If feels good to go out. I have my mom, dad and 4 sisters to talk to. Thank God my boss is understanding and patient. I couldn’t screw my head on right to do a good job at work for 2 months. Now he’s glad I work for him. I am in credit card debt up to my eyeballs. No savings but I don’t worry. I’ve been in this type of debt before and pulled out of it and I will again. I can’t get the ex to get the last of his crap out of the garage. He’s been telling me every week for 4 months (via text…we don’t talk) that he’s picking this stuff up. He said he will sign the deed this week. Does anyone out there want to make a wager on that? Think he will?? Molly, don’t think no one will ever love you again. Love Molly. Remember who Molly was before the sociopath and start to be Molly again. What helped me is faith in God too. I started going back to church. The first time I went, tears were streaming down my face. I kept asking God at first, “why?” “why did this happen?” Lately, I ask God to heal my heart and help me get the hate out of it. I ask Him to forgive the ex because he is sick. I ask Him to cure his sickness so he can actually feel the pain he caused me…because sociopaths do not have the capability to feel empathy. I live alone so times get a little tough but I have a dog so he’s great company. Sociopaths like to see you suffer. Don’t let him see you suffer…even if you are inside.

Ox Drover

Kat, you question—

I wish I could answer your question with a list of 1. do this, 2) do that and everything will be lovely. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.

Part of the thing I think about the “emptiness” is depression, and I know you are taking antidepressants. I have been reassessing my own life, deciding what I want to do “when I grow up”–what interests me. For a while, NOTHING interested me, I didn’t have the energy or desire to do anything. I made myself do a few things by “guilting” myself into doing them, bu you know, that wasn’t very satisfactory. LOL

But now I am actually having fun doing things—things that need to be done, like mowing the grass or even washing the dishes, doing laundry etc. but also having a ball fixing up the “Sow’s Ear Studio” in some space my husband had planned for offices and ended up being a “dump it all rat and mouse hotel” Today I spent making an old salvaged and fogged over glass door into a Faux Stained Glass door to replace the one that had rotted out in the rain. I enjoyed taking nothing and making something really cool for my “studio”–where I will have room to weave, and sew and paint, and I want to get a potter’s wheel and make more pots (I took a class a couple of years ago in pottery).

For so long, “forever” it seemed nothing was interesting to me. Didn’t want to watch movies, didn’t want to read, didn’t want to keep my house clean, didn’t want to _____or _____ or _____ (fill in the blanks) Live was DULL DULL DULL and BORING because nothing interested me, but it was the depression, the grief, the loss. But as I have healed the lack of “ambition” to do anything, to enjoy anything has come back. Not all at once, but slowly, sort of creeping up on me. I started to read again, study the Bible again, keep house again, and some days were better than others, but GIVING MYSELF PERMISSION TO “BE LAZY” is okay too. I never had that permision before, to just “really relax and do nothing and enjoy it” I had it seemed like anyway to be DOING something constructive or “working”—if not at a job at home, or doing something for someone else. Now I have permission to just have “fun” if I want to. All by myself or sharing a. good time with others. It doesn’t matter if I am alone or with someone, I can still have a good time.

I don’t know if any of this makes any sense, but life isn’t boring to me, it is PEACEFUL. Before, I liked excitement, doing unusual things, going places, flying planes, etc. working a lot too, or combining work and excitement, but now…”boring” (peaceful) is GOOD. I’ve developed a new appreciation for the “slower” lifestyle, more laid back. More ME focused, and I don’t have to be “entertained” all the time either by other people or by “exciting” things. There isn’t a lot of DRAMA in my life any more, and I sure as HECK LIKE IT THAT WAY.



I do not remember what I like. I learned as he told me “just wait, you’ll see, you’ll learn” to like what he liked, to do what he wanted to do, that way I was never disappointed. That way I was able to keep the peace. As far as being alone with yourself…I never ever had a problem with that before. I waited in till I was 45 before I got married and had taken care of myself since I was 15 years old. I hated it when I was younger , and learned to appreciate it as I got older. However, I now feel like a stranger to myself..who wants to be alone with a stranger. Who was that sad, pathetic woman who allowed her soul to be raped. Who was that sad little girl who was willing to accept unacceptable behavior in hopes that if she did “HE” would love her and never leave. That’s scary and sick..why would I want to be alone with someone who is that pathetic?…Thank YOu

Oxdrover: It was only 1 1/2 yrs but we had a 28 year history. I have lost 46 years of belongings, all my savings and two years worth of income. He’s gone on two trips and is throwing money away and dose not care one bit that I struggle to make it day to day. To be honest all I ended up asking for in the early resolution hearing after he contested everything else, was my personal belongings…I mean things like my diary, the little glass heart filled with all the dandelions that my son had given me while he was growing up, along with the little trinkets he had given me for birthdays and mothers day. They are worth nothing to him…All he could say is “I do not know what your sh?t is”. I wanted to say..”I do not think the red blush or the pink panties belongs to you”. Forget the $ and forget the collectibles but the “mementos” how could someone keep those kind of things from someone????? I have asked myself…do I want to be right or do I want to be happy….I want to be happy. How come people like this keep getting away with this kind of behavior..he has not cooperated with any part of the court proceedings and the court does not seem to care. ….THank you

Iwonder..I got the knot back in my stomach after reading what you wrote. I remember have got to be kidding…when I knew he was going to come up with a reason to twist the situation so he would get what he wanted. I was let go from a job because the office manager knew that I was getting “SLACK” for not getting home when I was expected to. He also resorted to setting up a burglary where only my things were stolen and of course he said…”If you would have listened to me and put your things away like I told you to (in his safe which I did not have the combo for)your things would have not got stolen and if you would have been home in stead of working like I told you not to this never would have happened. It almost seems like the longer I have been gone and the more I read stories on this site “THE SICKER I FEEL”.

I hope he signs the deed for you!!!!

As far as GOD is concerned. I was very, VERY mad at him because I used to pray every day and every night to help me do “THE RIGHT THING”, I asked him to help me be more patient, understanding and noncritical. I asked him to help me make the right decisions. Then when I decided to start saying that I would not continue to do certain things it got worse. I did it in a nice way..not demanding, no ultimatum’s and it got VERY VERY ugly. It got so bad I literally had to “escape”. I did and two days after I went to a shelter he changed the locks on the door and removed over 260 box’s of our belongings”. He was through with ME!!!!! He has no contact with me since except when he called to have me sign the $4,600 tax check.
A friend of his actually told me that I was lucky that I got out alive because she was worried that he might have killed me if I would have stayed any longer. Thank you!!

I have been house sitting for the last 2 days and they have a dog. The other night he jumped up on the bed just after I laid down for the night and snuggled right next to me….I could not stop crying. I tried to get my husband to snuggle with me throughout our entire marriage and he would not. I would love to get a animal, however, not sure how I am gonna feed myself let alone a dog. I have to work every opportunity I get just to pay bills. I would have to have funds to take care of him, not just get a dog and wonder how I will do that After the fact. Plus I barter for my rent and they do not allow dogs. I actually went to the humane society shortly after I arrived back here and the last cage I went to had a cat that looked exactly like the cat I had to leave behind and I got so upset, I started blowing snot right there in the dam shelter. I also worried, If I can’t take care of me how am I gonna take care of a animal. Thank you

Thank You to everyone. When I came on here before I just kept saying No it was not that bad and I blew things out of proportion so I could feel sorry for myself that things did not work. After I kept reading and being around people again, sharing what happened…I was able to start to realize just how sick things really got. And if all of you had the courage to talk about it, that I had to take a NEW LEAP OF FAITH and trust that I will make it through this with the help of all of you.

It actually feels safe…You can not abandon can only delete me after I have already said what I needed to say…Thank you again….from the bottom of the part of the part of my heart that I have left.

Ox Drover

Dear Molly,

We will not abandon you, there is almost always someone here on the blog as people are on here from all over the world so times are different for some of us.

We do understand how it is “really that bad” because our lives have been “REALLY THAT BAD”—and it is not a shame to be a victim, not a shame for you, but a shame for him, but HE feels NO SHAME.

You will make it through this Molly, and I can’t promise you that it is going to be easy, but we are here….yell to us and vent and rave if you want to! It is okay and it is safe here.

You’ll have lots of ups and downs but you will come through it. Most likely he is just mind F—ing you with the things you want. He knows you want those things and he is holding them “hostage” or will never give them up. They do things like that just to hurt us, so I wish I could tell you the court wouldl make him cough them up, but there is a good chance they won’t.

My X-DIL went to jail when she and her BF tried to kill my son and they were arrested. My son C picked up and moved to another state. He kept her keepsakes and her cat, and I actually held them “hostage” until she cooperated and filed taxes with my son–using a little P-tactics there myself. She hated me from the day she married my son and would believe any mean thing about me so I let her think I would injure or kill her cat if she didn’t cooperate. She did cooperate and she got her cat and her kid’s pictures etc. and her mother’s china. My son is much nicer than I am, I cleand up her filthy house after she was put in jail, if it had been me making the decision, she wouldn’t have gotten anything.

YOu just h ave to keep in mind that they will do things that don’t make sense to us, just because they know it will hurt us. She even blamed ME because she tried to kill my son C. Her reasoning was “I made him like he is, so therefore it is my fault she had to try to kill him after he found out about her affair and offered to go to counseling with her and “work it out.” I’m not sure how that is MY fault, but according to her it was. LOL

Anyway, the point is that whatever you get will be someting that you have to FIGHT FOR in court and you still may not get it, but it is YOUR STUFF so you have to make the decision about HOW IMPORTANT it is to YOU. If you want those things are are willing to fight for them, then I say GO FOR IT. TOWANDA!!! But if you aren’t willing to spend a year or more in court fighting with him that doesn’t mean you are “weak” or anything else, it just means that you decided the “price” was too high. Keep in mind, he will ENJOY THE FIGHT and I have a feeling you won’t enjoy it. Good luck Molly, and you know something, all your prayers WERE ANSWERED, just not in the way you wanted, but you got a better thing, you got RID OF HIM. I realized after I had taken my mother to court over all this mess and “lost”–that it was a BLESSING in disguise, because if I had “won” that day, the DIL would still have been in our midst, and I would have only gotten rid of the one P, as it was, my “losing” two months later resulted in both the DIL and the Trojan HOrse P being put in Jail. So sometimes things that at first appear to be a “loss” or an unanswered prayer turn out later to be a GREAT BLESSING. However hard it is right now, getting rid of him is the best blessing you could have! There was nothing you could have done to have saved that relationship, and now you are FREE OF HIM. ((((hugs))))) We’ll be here to hold your hand on the healing road! WE will NOT abandon you.

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