By | October 13, 2010 89 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: ‘Good Guy’ Gone Terribly Wrong

Editor’s Note: October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Lovefraud received the following story from a woman who went public with her experience in order to draw attention to this terrible problem. The name she uses on Lovefraud is “Tormented.”

In 2008, I divorced my husband of 18 years due to differences that unfortunately we couldn’t work out. We have three amazing children together and remain good friends in spite of our divorce, which has made things much easier for all of us.

Just five months after the divorce, I met a man who charmed me from the very beginning. I thought he was wonderful, and I quickly fell head over heels for him. A former county deputy sheriff, presently working as an Air Marshal and in the Army Reserves for nearly 20 years, he seemed like one of the “good guys” – a really good, down-to-earth person with a lot going for him. In his early 40”˜s, he had never married and had no kids, which I thought was a good thing because I figured he lacked “baggage.” He seemed to love my kids, and when we married six months after we met, it felt natural and right. After all, I was 43, had been married for nearly two decades and knew exactly what I wanted.

What I didn’t realize was the fact that there were glaring red flags all over him. I guess I was either too naive or too trusting or both. For one thing, he had never been in a long-term relationship. And a few months into our marriage I discovered a box filled with photos of him with many, many different women over the years. Also, he had only one close friend. This friend of his attended our wedding, but only because we paid for the airfare and hotel. No other friends or family from his side bothered to attend. And the only wedding gift we received from his side was a $50 gift card to Pier 1 – from that one close friend of his.

Soon after we married, my new husband’s facade began to crack, and lies started to show through. Such as the fact that he had told me and my children that he had a college degree in Criminal Law, when in reality he had only taken a few online classes.

“Honeymoon” in Maui

When the verbal abuse started, I was not only horrified, but ashamed and embarrassed. I couldn’t believe the violent language that so easily flew from his lips, directed straight at me. When we went on our honeymoon to Maui, I ended up catching a flight home by myself two days early. I couldn’t begin to comprehend how a man could possibly yell at his new bride for hours on end, repeatedly calling her a f–king c-nt and scaring her to death while on their honeymoon. And his anger came out of nowhere, for no good reason. One night it was because I didn’t want to eat ice cream with him for dessert.

At this time, I was in between jobs and freelancing to keep some income coming in. I had the opportunity to work on a large, potentially lucrative business deal that I was very excited about. Out of the blue, my husband called up my potential client and accused him of having an affair with me. I was horrified and of course, lost the deal.

It became very apparent that I had made a terrible mistake, and yet I remained in a state of denial for several months as the wonderful man I thought I’d married simply faded away. I no longer recognized my husband through all of the degrading name calling and emotional manipulation. I cried nearly every day of the ten months we were married. My heart was bludgeoned, my self esteem utterly destroyed.

Domestic violence

After the disastrous honeymoon, I insisted on marriage counseling, however our psychologist gave up after only four sessions. She said she was unable to help us work things out unless he received individual counseling first. When she mentioned the words “domestic violence” to me, I was stunned. I had no idea that verbal abuse was considered domestic violence, and I couldn’t believe that I had entered this devastating realm that I’d never imagined would be a part of my life.

Ten months after our wedding, I finally found the courage to ask for a separation. I told him that I needed two months of peace, to think about our relationship and where we should go from there. I realized that another divorce was most likely on the horizon for me, however I still held out hope that he would miraculously change and the abuse would end. I was desperate for that man I fell in love with in the very beginning to reappear. How could that good man have been replaced by this abusive, violent monster who obviously hated me?

Just five days after I asked for the separation, he showed up on my front patio unannounced and forced his way into my home. He had just flown into town, and being an Air Marshal who always wears a gun strapped to his chest, I could tell that he was packing by the bulge under his shirt. He paced through my home, yelling and at times talking irrationally. Twice he said that we should go into the bedroom and have sex, that it would be “good for both of us.” Terrified, I cried and begged him to leave. He yelled at me and said he would leave when he was ready to leave. He continued to pace and yell. Sobbing and shaking uncontrollably, I finally called the police. I had never called 911 before in my life, but I was so frightened that he would physically hurt me or worse. Later, when the police officers removed him from my property and encouraged me to file an Order of Protection against him, I was completely beside myself.

Order of Protection

I soon discovered that filing an Order of Protection against my husband was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. It was devastating to think that I had to go to that extreme measure to keep myself, and my children, safe. Especially when I was trying to keep myself safe from the one person who I thought had my best interests at heart. Someone I had trusted and opened my entire life to. Someone I believed in. To have to cope with the fact that my husband never really loved me at the same time when I was also dealing with having to file an Order of Protection against him was beyond devastating. It was also an extremely lonely place to be.

My Order of Protection case itself ended up being a lengthy, stressful ordeal. Along the way his attorney was very persistent about proposing a settlement since he would have been fired from his Air Marshal position if the Order of Protection remained upheld. In the end, I chose to settle and ended up with an even greater and longer lasting protection through a Court Order attached to our divorce decree, in addition to reimbursement from him for all of my divorce and legal fees. Presently, he can’t even enter the state where I live and can never contact me or my children forever.


During this ordeal, I started writing a blog as a way to release the painful feelings I was coping with while also speaking out to help other women going through the same kind of situation. Ironically, my blog has enabled women from his past and present life to find me online.

Horribly enough, I discovered that for most of the time we were together, he was having an affair with a married woman. This woman was shocked to find my blog and to learn of my existence. She emailed me the story of their affair, and I learned that while he was in the process of marrying me, he was simultaneously trying to convince her to leave her husband for him. I have no doubt that there were other women in his life at that time as well. The combination of his vicious abuse and his disgusting betrayal have been horrendous to deal with.

On top of all this, I contracted a sexually transmitted disease from him that has since been resolved through medication. It was discovered while we were married, and yet his response was to call me a f–king wh-re and accuse me of having an affair. He refused to believe that he was carrying an STD, which I’m sure he continues to spread around.

I am speaking out and sharing my story with the hopes that I can reach other women who may be hiding in the shadows with their own stories of abuse. I recently appeared on local TV news segments, as well as in our state newspaper. It’s terrifying to “come out” publicly with my story, but I’m hoping that by doing this I’ll make it a little easier for the next woman. The only way to eradicate domestic violence is to lean on each other, stand up, speak out and educate. The main thrust of my message is: you are not to blame and you are not alone.

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Dear Tormented –

This man exhibits a true Jekyll and Hyde personality – scary. I am sorry that you had the experiences that you had, realizing how terrifying some of them were for you. I’m thankful that you share your story (hard as it is), giving hope to others who are in abusive relationships (turning your negative into a positive for the rest of humanity). Peace to you.

Ox Drover

Dear Tormented,

Thank you for sharing this story here and for “coming out” I can only imagine how terrifying that must have been. Finding out that we are no alone in our encounters with abusive people I know from personal experience is very validating and helpful.

Your story is truly scary, and especially to know that that creature (I won’t call him a man) is still out there with a gun “protecting” the public from people just like himself.

It is also truly scary that people like him, and Ted Bundy and the BTK killer, can present a facade of normalcy, or even as “good guys” when in fact, they are anything except!

Your comment about being too naive and too trusting I think mirrors most of us (former victims), but you were also in a period of especially high vulnerability that first year or so after the divorce, in an employment slump, and how were you supposed to recognize those “red flags” as “signs of trouble?”

It is difficult to comprehend why he would marry you, while at the same time trying to get a married woman with whom he was having an affair to leave her husband for him. WHY? WHY? It doesn’t make ANY sense to a “normal” person. It sounds INSANE. And, it think because even WE can’t come up with a MOTIVE that sounds even slightly rational, other people outside of this kind of insane relationship don’t “believe.” Even our attorneys sometimes find it incredulous that we could be telling such an “insane story” and it is ACTUALLY TRUE.

As I sat here and read your story (believing every word) I was AMAZED that you indicated that the police you called to throw him out of your house believed YOU and not him! So many other people here have indicated that in similar situations of domestic violence the police actually sided with the abuser!

Though I have yet to come “out” of the abuse closet nationally, I have done so locally and I too found it embarrassing to admit I was a VICTIM. Yet, the ABUSER bears no shame. What is wrong with that picture? LOL

Thank you again for sharing your story, and I do not doubt for one moment that you were tormented by this man. I’m glad you escaped and glad that you had the courage to come forward to help others. God bless you.


@’Good Guy’ Gone Terribly Wrong”

Oh my heart goes out to you and I send you love, peace and blessings.


This is a shocking story, thank God you got out when you did!And very brave of you to “come out” and let other abused women know they are not alone.
My ex did beat me up, but seldom emotionally abused me. I had far worse emotional and even physical abuse from my teenaged daughter.”Good girl gone wrong?”
I read her diary one time,{know I shoudnt have} and shed written.,
“My Turd- faced C—t of a so-called Mother!”
She was violent, abusive , hateful, and full of rage. Where Oh where was my sweet pre-teen? Gone forever it seemed.
So its not only husbands and wives who abuse, adult kids can do it too! Your right, when I DID call he cops, they believed my ex and my teenager, not me!
Mama gem.


Umm fishy hoping for a little bite! Don’t go there people!! Let fishy find another pond!!


Mama Gem,

I truly understand daughter wise. I will share this incident with you – my daughter went out partying all night while we sat in the emergency room with her year old son – she knew we had rushed him there and she didn’t bother to call or show up for 12 hours. When she finally showed up at our home, she had bruises on her face including a black eye. I refused to turn over her very sick baby to her (she was still obviously under the influence of SOMETHING), she waited several hours, went to the local police station, showed them the bruises, and told them I had beat her up and kidnapped her child. They believed her…. I understand and I am so sorry.

Love – MiLo

Ox Drover

MiLo and Gem, there is an old saying around here “the last liar doesn’t stand a chance,” so unfortunately, it is the person who tells the FIRST LIE that gets the BELIEF of the people they are lying to, and then it is up to YOU to prove that they are lying.

WRONG!!! SOOO WRONG! Tell a lie and get believed, tell the truth, and no one believes you! Been there and done that! That is why I guess I am so ADAMANT about liars and lies, and won’t tolerate it. The only “lie” I think is acceptable is when I ask if “these pants make my butt look big?” and you LIE and smile and say “No, of course not!” THAT LIE you can tell, all the rest, forget it! LOL


@ Soapers

to a ‘good guy’ gone incredibly sarcastic….get a life..yawwwwn!


Milo and Oxy,
They are pieces of work, alright!!
Yea, people would RATHER believe their lies than our truth, but sooner or later it all backfires on them. Two of my Grandkids are now starting to “see the Light”, re their Mum.Remember the boy who cried “Wolf! Wolf!” Eventually a REAL live wolf ate himup. Good riddance, I say!
I called the cops when my spath D started to throw Encyclopedias at my head like they were confetti. Went next door in my nightie! The police came, my ex said,
“Youve got it all wrong, officer!My wife is insane, SHE beats up my daughter. And she{Me} is a prostitute, on the game.”
“Say no more, Sir, we understand!” they said, and left me with them!
When I reluctantly returned home{after making a bid for freedom,}, still with an eggshaped purple bruise on my face where my ex had beaten me,, my ex said,
“Were going to have to knock Mum back into line, arent we girls?” {I kid you not!} Took me another 2 years before I finally managed to get out of that hellhole, of 3 spaths,{my ex, and 2 girls.}
Mama Gem.I met an old friend a year later who told me hed called in to see me, and Id fled. He told me,
“It was like the Light had gone out of that house. And you, M, were the Light.”

Ox Drover

Dear Gem,

The hardest part I think is not fleeing for our lives physically, but putting them out of the space in our heads and hearts even after we are physically safe from them.

I’m glad your grandkids are getting the idea about their mom. That is the greatest gift she has given them….as harsh as that sounds, at least they have seen the truth about their egg donor. It hurts, but better that they should learn it now than to try to please her for the rest of their lives.

You and I both have had difficulty validating the truth we see, the truth we KNOW. It isn’t easy to accept that we tried to see a different “picture” for so long…but we finally are seeing the truth. Validating that truth as truth! It doesn’t matter what they say or the neighbors or anyone else–we know the truth, and that is all that we need! It is nice if others see it, but it isn’t necessary for others to agree or to see it. We can validate it ourselves! You are super Gem!!! Keep your chin up! You escaped! You see the truth, you don’t have to wonder any more “did I do right?” “Is there something I could have done to save them?” you know the answers. You KNOW them. That is what matters the most! Their apples didn’t fall far from their tree (father). (((hugs)))))


When I read such stories, I am glad that I was only subject to emotional abuse and thankfully short at that. I always wonder why the sociopath’s true nature is revealed mostly to those involved with them. Do they feel they can let down their guard or is there something more?

Good guy gone wrong is the way I see my x-spath. For a long time, I felt that with the right counseling he could even be a good guy. The more and more I learn about sociopaths, the less and less I find this likely.

“And his anger came out of nowhere, for no good reason. One night it was because I didn’t want to eat ice cream with him for dessert.”

I am stunned when I read little things like this which I too experienced. Anger over a pie. “Why did you get that! I told you I don’t like sweets!”

His reaction was so odd, especially being his first time at my place, that I was chilled, having never seen behavior like this.

What I did not realize was that from the moment he entered my apartment, I was getting close to his mask, his being HIV+.

Perhaps in the case of Tormented, not wanting to eat dessert with him touched his control issues? Maybe that was the core of my experience as well. By being at my place, he could not “control” the situation?


Blue eyes
very interesting observations.
Some of you posters blow me away with your insights.
Where were you 25 years ago?

Ox Drover

BBE and Sky, I agree with you that To “the world” as a whole, they present an acceptable mask but to those “nearest and dearest” they don’t have to mask themselves they can let, as we used to say, LET IT ALL HANG OUT! Once they are intimately comfortable with a person then the control comes out.

Well, good night folks, I’m turning into a pumpkin!



Obviously, my insight came after the fact. I knew there was something very odd about the x-bf, but for about six months I put that to self-esteem issues surrounding his being HIV+, something I discovered online. There were other things about him I discovered, but did not want to believe. All came from his very easily discovered online trail — porn sites and dating websites.

My real insight started with a stare, or I should say an article about “everyday” sociopaths that described certain traits, including the famous “sociopathic stare.”

My x-spath has the stare. I remember it from the first night I met him. Many times, it made me a bit uncomfortable. I took it for deep interest, as many do.

I started doing a bunch of research and every site I visited, every article I read about sociopaths made me think he was. In fact, other than physical violence and criminal behavior, there is not a single trait or charateristic of sociopaths he did not exhibit.

Still, his subconcious pity play always left me giving him the benefit of doubt and it is a very powerful pity play that I never succinctly stated: he is mid-30s, HIV+ and both his parents died of cancer before they were 50.

Since I was facing open heart surgery, I was still emotionally connected with health issues and several times I considered reaching out. I did not because of what I learned here.

Oxdrover, and others, were particularly helpful in getting me to see the light. Still, I needed subtle actions, not traits described by a psychologist, to convince me.

I was not physically abused. I was not financially scammed. I was simply manipulated then dumped at a very bad time in my life.

This is why little things such as the ice cream story are so important. Its like the light bulb turning on.

As I think Oxdrover has stated, this is our AA. We need to share and we need to be reminded. Otherwise, we might go back to the bottle…

Ox Drover

Sky, you asked “where were you 25 years ago?” Well, 25 years ago I was being scammed by a psychopath, and 15 years before that I was being abused by a psychopath and guess what, I was warned to get away from both of them and I DID NOT LISTEN because I was NOT READY TO RECEIVE THAT TRUTH. So I realize now that no matter who had warned me or how, I WOULD NOT HAVE LISTENED.

That actually is comforting to know that there was no way to get me to SEE because I WAS BLINDED by my own opinions of what was going on.

I WAS LIKE A TEEN-AGED KID BEING CAUTIONED TO DRIVE SLOWLY—- “I can handle it why are you telling me that chit! I’m a perfect driver, I will never have a wreck”

My own arrogance that I KNEW BEST, I wasn’t going to listen to someone else who obviously couldn’t handle it like I COULD….gosh, just saying that was my opinion then embarrasses me now. LOL Ah, yes….actually I remember a night when I was about 19 and I was “holding court” at a place called “Barnie’s beanery in Hollywood CA with some friends of my sperm donor’s about Viet Nam and how wars were fought for mom and apple pie and the American way…” and My late husband was there and I remember the GRIN on his face. Very indulgent of a child who didn’t know her butt from second base, and years later, embarrassed I asked him “why did you put up with me back then when I KNEW EVERYTHING?”

He laughed and he said “Yea, you didn’t know your butt from second base, but you were so CUTE about it!” (boy, then I really DID want to crawl under the table! But I figured, huh! he was just a dirty old man even back then! LOL)

So, I must admit that no matter who had warned me about how my P kid was a psychopath, or who had warned me my P sperm donor was a psychopath, I wouldn’t have listened, and knowing now that I wouldn’t have listened then, I realize even if I had been warned, it wasn’t time for me to get the lesson yet and when it WAS time, I got it. So no sense beating myself up for not listening to a warning I never got, and wouldn’t have listened to if I had…when the time is right, we get it. Not before.

Just like a drunk isn’t going to “get it and quit” before they hit their own version of bottom. We can’t reach them prior to that personal level of pain. Only when they reach it, that personal level of hell can we reach out a supporting hand to them and they will reach back and take it!


Oxy and Blue Eyes.
Well 25 years ago, I had met this man and was not yet in love. I had 2 other boyfriends and they all knew each other. But none of it was serious. But I did notice that the P LIED ALL THE TIME. I can’t even remember the what the lies were, but they were preposterous, obvious and stupid. I had never met anyone who lied so much, so I decided to research this. It was 1984, I was 17 and there was no internet, so I headed to the library after work. The only book that popped up was Dr. Scott Peck’s “People of the Lie” and I read it with fascination from cover to cover. BUT I didn’t make the connection because it kept talking about HUMAN EVIL. Being raised a Catholic I thought I would recognize EVIL if I saw it. Right? I mean, it would be EVIL and SCARY, Right? It would be icky and slimy Right? It wouldn’t smile, spend money on me and bring me flowers. When we speak of evil we tend to think it is PURE EVIL and therefore easy to spot. We don’t think that it hides under a facade. This is the problem with stories we tell children. The evil villian always LOOKS THE PART. BS. That is not true for young, evil people. Perhaps as they age, their evil begins to reflect on their faces, but before that, they are like Lucifer: beautiful, shining, charasmatic. All the things that an infant is. The story of Lucifer is perhaps the best story to describe the sociopathic mindset. He was a favorite angel of God (authority), he became prideful and envious. He wanted to usurp God’s authority. (they want authority over reality – which is why they lie so much).
If someone had explained it to me in this way, I would have gotten it. I wasn’t tied to him yet – That took time. I was looking for an explanation, none was available.
Furthermore, if my PARENTS –who overheard him SAY that he was only doing nice things for me because there was a lot of money at stake — had TOLD me what they overheard – I would have put all the evidence together. I would have understood that the nice stuff was JUST MORE LIES. I would never have understood MALICE as his motive – because that motive is completely beyond my understanding – but I would have put his motive down to money, which is a universal one. I would have dumped his ass in one year, not 25.
Granted, being raised by N’s I’m sure I would have ended up with another one, but I don’t think it would have been as evil as this one.
My brother is an evil sociopath who lives in my parents’ basement and my brother-in-law is a rapist, but even they have interests outside of evil. When they watch TV they laugh at the comedy (when they get it). So I can tell that at those moments they are not thinking about being evil. My exP NEVER did that. He HATED comedy – it angered him to hear me laugh. He didn’t drink – almost never. He never did anything without the ulterior motive of ultimately incorporating the act into a con. Like you said Oxy, the S can’t even eat an ice cream cone without an ulterior motive. I love that line – because for this Spath, it’s accurately true.
If something good comes out of all of our suffering, it is that we come here to LF, and describe what we know and then we listen to each other and take the message out where ever we go and tell more people until the parasites have no more hosts left.


Good guys don’t go bad.
Bad guys pretend to be good guys but can’t keep it up because it’s not their true nature.

It’s always horrible to read another story of one of these Masters of the lie. Never fails to amaze me just how many of these stories there are. I used to think I was the only one who had met someone from another planet. I think it’s really sad so many of these individuals are out there inflicting their very own brand of frightening behaviour on another person. They move on and leave a trail of devastation behind them. Shocking.



Well said ellejay!

‘Good guys don’t go bad.
Bad guys pretend to be good guys but can’t keep it up because it’s not their true nature. ‘



I second one_step!

Given their numbers and general lack of stability, my guess is that most experience a sociopath at some point in their life. Not all are badly affected. These are the ones able to see through the mask, have boundries and don’t ignore red flags.

In ten minutes I saw three red flags — smoker, heavy drinker, incompatible profession (flight attendant). In the course of conversation over the next couple of hours, I saw two more and ignored them for the charm and his ability to explain away each of the red flags: just started smoking and drinking again after quitting, became a flight attendant only to travel for a couple of years then go back to a normal job…

What I know now is that his explaining away should have been even more of a red flag — its mirroring.

For example, he led me to believe that he had only become a flight attendant in the past couple year when it was more like a half-dozen…

Ox Drover

Dear BBE,

Lots of people are flight attendants and are good people
Lots of people smoke and are still good people.
Lots of people drink (even heavily) and are still good people.

So I would say that not even all three of these things in one person would necessarily be a red flag. But, that said…

The Mirroring though I think is definitely a red flag. His “explaining” these things “away” like you might object to them, THAT to me is a BIG red flag.

Anything that you had found “objectionable” that he did, I think he would have “explained” away if he could have, or minimized it in some way. They try to present themselves as whatever it is that they THINK WE WANT TO SEE.

I smoked for decades and I knew that people objected to this…so I was POLITE and didn’t smoke in their presence, in their homes, cars, etc. but I didn’t apologize for doing it on “my own time.” I didn’t try to “explain” it away or minimize it. It was what it was. If people were over at MY house who objected to smoke, I didn’t even smoke in my OWN HOME when they were there, but it was out of COURTESY, not because I was trying to “mirror” them or pretend I was something I wasn’t.

The “mirroring” is something that the psychopath does that I think is SUBTLE, but at the same time, is something, IF YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS, you can pretty easily pick up. After you’ve seen it and experienced it a time or two it is pretty easy to pick up I think. It is that “OH, you’re my BESTEST FRIEND and I’m just like your dream” (instantly) thing that sets off the red flares!

When I meet someone and they INSTANTLY put in an “application” to be my “best friend” and tell me just how wonderful I am, It is a RED FLARE and makes me take notice of “there may be a predator in the area” pretty quickly!

I like compliments as much as the next person, but TOO MANY OF THEM TOO SOON and I get jumpy! I’ve used that technique to catch animals that I knew would not want to be caught up!

Hereeeee kitty, kitty, wanna bowl of nice juicy milk? Hereeeee kitty kitty! (don’t pay any attention to this flea spray behind my back)



With the h-spath, I had never known anyone who lied so much either, being puzzled by the need to do so. It wasn’t until things went down hill in our lives, I discovered this trait of his – extreemly annoying. He seemed incapable of telling the truth, especially about serious matters – he’d lie to cover is _ss.


bluejay – mine wouldn’t utter a word beyond, ‘i like donuts’ if she didn’t lie lie lie.
we are traumatized as spath survivors…but do you ever stand back and look at the breadth of ruined, damaged and victimized people who are left, as sky says, with pieces of ourselves in our laps – the intensity of it all is far too much. and they rool on. our suffering the ba b side of the movie,’vic #1, vic#2….the utter, enormous shear lack of compassion and empathy is staggering.

i am having a really really bad day. the pain killers have left me a wobbly mess emotionally. someone, in sheer STUPIDITY has removed some info i put up online to protect others – hacked into my account to do it. online is such a friendly place. i feel f**king crazed.

(and oxy if you feel compelled to yell ‘nc’ – just don’t. i am trying to walk through this mess, and having to deal with you telling me i should go another direction instead of actually being of support is a waste of my time, and has set me back and AWAY from my intuition more than once, and i am not having it.)

and as is obvious – i have a spear in each hand. i will get some more help this week, set up as soon as possible. god, these drugs have left some horrible after affect.

someone shared with me about going someplace sacred and wailing and yelling and working it though – i tried the last two weekends – back…pain…i feel really really ugly – like she won.

a plea to the universe, help me. i feel i will implode, i feel ugly, i feel in a corner, and frightened.



I did not mean to imply smoking, drinking… as “red flags” mean a bad person. It was just things I normally stay away from. Same with flight attendants. The “red flag” was the implicit atypical relationship with one party being away for extended periods…

But, as you pointed out, the mirroring thing was the real red flag in terms of sociopathic behavior. Then came the flattering, to the point where on several occasions I felt very uncomfortable, yet charmed…



Have you ever looked into macrobiotics – wondering if this could help alleviate some of your health concerns. A book that I read a couple of years ago (when I was considering going macrobiotic in diet), was The Cure is in the Kitchen, by Dr. Sherry A. Rogers, M.D. I read the book (having found it at the library) and was fascinated by the book. This doctor practices macrobiotics and would encourage her patients (some with serious allergy problems, etc.), prescribing a diet that was specific for the patient, helping the person to overcome his/her ailments. Please don’t take offense at this suggestion, not telling you what to do – it’s an alternative approach to conventional medicine.


hi bluejay – thanks for the suggestion and not big on conventional medicine – i am a looking at a rotation diet, but i am having a hard time implementing it. i have been dealing with health issues for for almost 30 years and have tried many things. macrobiotics is not a way i can go unfortunately, for a variety of reasons.

Ox Drover

Dear One, Your feelings are REAL! YOu’ve been kicked from multiple directions, and the drugs and the pain are only two of them. Take care of YOURSELF FIRST, that’s my only advice! (((Hugs)))



That’s why I didn’t implement a macrobiotic way of eating in my lifestyle – I felt like I was starving, constantly cooking, having a hard tim keeping at it. I will say that I felt great while on the diet, but it was so time consuming, plus I like the American diet (not the healthiest, I know). I have told myself that if I ever find out that I have some deadly illness, I’ll be practicing macrobiotics, recovering from the illness (via the help of the diet) or dying from it (whatever the sickness is).


Onestep, drugs and anger will do a number on you.
Diets are good as a long term fix and very important, but right now you need a quick fix and I recommend accupuncture. Community Accupuncture is available in many parts of the country (google it) and cheaper but equally effective. I’ve used it everytime I screw myself up with too much coffee, wine, sleeping pills, stress or bad diet. It helps get you back to your baseline – realigns your energy. I’m ridiculously sensitive to my environment, (I can only drink 1/2 cup of my glorious and worshipped coffee per day – addicted to it.) So, anything throws me out of whack and accupuncture is a saving grace. please try it soon, I’m sure you’ll feel better and your followup efforts will be more effective.
Oxy, I agree with onestep about smoking and drinking. Did you ever consider that you are ready to quit smoking now because you have removed so many spaths from your life? From what I’ve noticed, smoking is very common in spaths but it’s also common in people like us, who are good, but whose lives are surrounded by them. smoking calms you down right? It makes the drama more bearable. My exP smoked and so does my BF. I’m so glad that you have reached that point in your life where you have enough peace to let go of smoking. Kudos to you.

I did get the exP to quit though. LOL. I told him that he left cigarette butts everywhere he went and would be really easy to track. He quit the next dayl hahahahahahahahha. ROTFLOL.
even before I knew what he was, I could see which buttons to push.

I have some bad news: yesterday one of my cats died (of hyperthyroidism/old age 18 years) and another was diagnosed with lymphoma – only 11 years old. Harsh. All in one day. I’m only mentioning it because both problems could have been improved or avoided by diet. The Spath made this kind of focus impossible and so does our sociopathic society.
By using gray rock – lack of response to the DRAMA they constantly create in our lives – we can keep focused on what’s important and avoid horrible endings. They know exactly what they are doing. Creating drama, so that we can’t function or see what’s important, then we spiral out of control. They hope for suicide but will be quite happy with bankruptcy or alcoholism. THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY STUDY US.


Greetings again, everyone!
I saw some familiar faces on this thread and just wanted to drop in and give you all a hug, especially those having a bad day. Please see my post on the “price of soul” thread for an update on my life.

Other than what I’ve shared on that thread, I have been utilizing the free therapist that I’ve seen on and off for years through my employee assistance program at work. She happens to be trained in various types of trauma work like EMDR. I must say that she has really been helping me. I feel very lucky. Even work has greatly improved. I came back from Costa Rica to a hug from my supervisor that I never used to get along with, and a pay raise for being a high performer. Since then, I’ve worked hard not to let the little things there bother me. It’s paid off and I have come to love my office job.

I also forgot to mention that I picked up a two-weekend medical massage training, which is helping my massage clients. It may also improve my income one of these days. But if I move to Costa Rica, I will probably teach English over there.

Enough of my ranting. I think of you guys a lot, even though I don’t check in much. Just a reminder that there is life after a sociopath.



sky- working with a couple of other modalities – and can’t bring another in yet, it would be too much for this body, too.

so, sorry to hear about your cats. for most of their lives i gave mine a homemade diet, and it made a huge diff to the toxin levels in their bodies. someone crushed the pelvis of one of them (so many evil people in the world). i had him on some high quliaty canned food for a while, but when he started to stiffen up a couple of years later I went back to using a homemade natural diet and all the stiffness left. i found great help online in a ‘cat forum’ that dealt with natural healing, it was long ago, and I don’t remember the name of it.


hi star – you haven’t been gone a year! you funny! guess it just feels like it and THAT’S a good thing. glad you had fun in costa Rica – the combo of sun sea and sex is one that can’t be beat in terms of attitude adjustment.

take good care,
one step


good morning everyone.
STAR!!! Hi, You sound so much better – I’m so glad. You are an amazing and resilient person, never afraid to look clearly at yourself, you inspire me. My sister’s birthday was yesterday too and she lives near you in Denver! coincidence!

I’ve been mostly gone from LF for about a year too – you might remember that I met someone and got a job with his company last november, so there hasn’t been much time. Plus three people here called me a sociopath, so it kind of lost it’s support benefit for me.


Hi Onestep,
thanks for that, I used to give my cats a homemade diet, but the Spath made my life harder and harder until near the end, I was just doing what was easiest. Then last year I had to leave my cats at my mom’s because I have nowhere for them, where I live 40 miles away. So I’m not there for them, but I did make a large stew with organic chicken and I will be taking it in batches to my mom so she can feed them. Also switched to a grain free brand of dry cat food yesterday and brewed some Rene Caisse tea for the sick cat. There isn’t much hope for her.

Ox Drover

Dear Star!!!! Glad to see you and know you are doing well!!!

Dear Sky, so sorry to hear that you lost your cat and the other one is ill. Losing a “member of the family” and a friend is always difficult, but there’s no doubt in my mind that s/he had a wonderful life and lots of love with you. (((Hugs))))

Yea, the “food and exercise plan” is difficult at times–with the added weight I have exercised less than is my life-time norm and now I am having to lower the food iintake and increase the exercise, while totting the extra weight! It isn’t’ a question of knowing I can do it or not, I KNOW I CAN it is just a question of putting my mind into it. Like the quitting cigarettes which I did, which I WANTED to do (finally!) I DON’T want to cut down on the food intake and I KNOW I DON’T WANT TO. LOL even though I know I SHOULD so am still psyching myself out “mental vs emotional!” Knowing I have to, knowing I don’t want to! LOL But I will “win” in the battle of the want-to versus the spoon!

dear One, you “sound” better today, hope you feel better as well!~



here’s my record on lf:
been called a spath two times (by one lf poster); prey and a c*nt by a spathy troll; and prey by someone who claimed to be a poster. THAT one was the creepiest, as it was said under pretense of being ‘protective’. C**t was the funniest. Spath by a lf poster – well, that was affecting, horrifying. She did it more than once, even after I complained; which made me question the moderation of this forum, and quit talking to the person who used this term in relation to me/ my behavior. Whether disordered or just plain wounded, it doesn’t matter – they don’t get my time. I am acutely aware there are lurkers here who read for amusement – this place will never be ‘safe’. Every time i write i expose myself to spaths, or *the* spath. It’s not the place it was for me either, but it still has value. I care about the people here and am so thankful for the blog’s existence, for the care and help we offer to one another – and for the support i have had as i careen through this unholy experience.

reading your journey with your cats – the trajectory of change in your relationship with them as it was affected by the spath is a mircocosm of what how they affect our reltionships with ourselves – we become unwell and estranged from ourselves, not living within ourselves.

but you are doing the thing – taking care and doing the best you can with the cards in your hand right now. 🙂

xx one step


thanks ox – had to change the pain killers, they were uggggly. and i can actually see the cursor now, which makes typing a whole lot easier.

still feel ugly. and damned. and bitter. and weepy….but the volume came down a bit, and it is a relief.

Ox Drover

Dear One_step,

Being able to see the cursor is a definite + when you are trying to post! LOL ROTFLMAO

Things are kind of sad around here right now, my son D’s best friend ( a girl) called last night to tell him her brother was killed in a car crash–we had just gotten home from a weekend rock climbing “bachelor party” for two other close friends who are getting married–LOL what do 18 Eagle Scouts do for a bachelor party? Rock climb of course! But also sit up all night talking and drinking $150 a bottle booze, so he was really TIRED and didn’t get the phone til this morning. The guy left two wonderful tween-aged kids who had just gotten used to the divorce a year or so ago…now they must face the death of their father. I didn’t actually know the guy, but I know his sister well and she was here for us almost before the flames were put out from the crash, so he will be leaving to go out of state for however long he needs to be there for her.

I blew my NEW NUTRITION PLAN yesterday, but am back on the “wagon” again today and feeling better about that in spite of the other sadness. Not going to beat myself up over it, because actually I do NOT WANT to do the new and healthy plan, but, at the same time, I know I MUST do it for myself, so will overcome what I have to.

Doing what we KNOW IS BEST, isn’t always what we WANT to do, and just like you have to say NO to a child sometimes for its own good, we have to say NO to our own inner child which cries out for something our ADULT SELF knows is not good for it!

Wish I could go NC with food the way I did with cigarettes, but unfortunately I have to “co-parent” with my baser instincts to eat eat eat EAT like there is no tomorrow! LOL

Now that I think about it, a psychopath is sort of like an UNRULY CHILD that wants what it wants when it wants it and will kick you in the shins if you don’t give in to it! So I guess I need to be a TOUGH LOVE kind of “parent” to this unruly inner child! But, since this unruly kid is me, I don’t think I will slap the carp out of it, but I may BOINK it to get its attention once in a while! LOL

Hope you have a better day—glad the volume came down on your beating yourself up! (((hugs)))


I too have gained weight and have discovered something called the HungryGirl website. Hungry Girl was just a blogger who liked to blog about great tasting food that was low calorie. She became an internet sensation and now some manufacturers are putting the HG seal of approval on their products! Anyway check out her website. HG recommended a tofu noodle that I keep as a staple around here because it’s so low-cal and fills me up with no weight gain. Also low glycemic. It’s called Shirataki noodles.


I didn’t know you had been subjected to abuse here too. here’s a hug (((hug))).
In my case, I think that one lf poster was just confused, but she instigated a witch hunt mentality on that day and 2 other posters who really ENJOYED that atmosphere jumped in and stirred the pot. Recently, one of them tried to start it up, but this time no one bit.

Ox Drover

Dear Sky,

Thanks for the link, I’ll look in on it. I’m doing better today though fell off the “wagon” yesterday, over all that is only two days out of about 8 weeks that I have given in to my weaknesses! Not a bad record over all I don’t think. So “pat pat” I say to myself! LOL

Actually, my weight is down 10 pounds or so from when I started and blood sugar is normalized and blood pressure is normalized, so over all, NOT TOO SHABBY…I guess it is just starting to really set in that this has to be a LIFE STYLE CHANGE not just a few days or weeks of “dieting”—and gosh, I did love my “grease and grits!” (country cooking) and lots of it.

In fact, think I will go have a salad for my mid afternoon snack with 35 calories of low-cal ranch on the greens!

Thanks again!


Behind Blue eyes – “Then came the flattering, to the point where on several occasions I felt very uncomfortable, yet charmed” ”

The flattery is what tipped me off. After I’d told him repeatedly that it made me uncomfortable, he did it more often and kept mentioning how I said it made me uncomfortable. He enjoyed watching it. Even more so when I started scowling and getting angry at him for it.

Then one day I googled ‘flattery and manipulation’. I only wish I’d known not to attack him or try to expose him. That cost me a lot.


WOW. this is SO like my experience with my ex. except we were together for 9 years! my wedding was the same. only his mom was there and we had to “find” someone to be his best man. i paid for the whole thing, including his gift to me! because if he did actually work at any point in time during our relationship, he never spent the money on us or me.

the only regret i have in leaving him is he took his daughter away from me (who i cared for full time for 5 years, part time for 3) and filled her mind with horrible lies about me. and now she will have nothing to do with me. this really breaks my heart. but never seeing *him* again makes me very happy.

Ox Drover

Dear Iron_butterfly,

I’m sorry you lost contact with the little girl that you loved, but that is so typical of the psychopaths…that has got to hurt, but is so typical of the things the psychopaths do, they use anything and any one to get back at you, even if it hurts the child, they don’t care the child is hurt, as long as it hurts you.

She may not understand now what is going on, but in the future she may remember your kindness and love for her. Don’t give up total hope that she will remember. I firmly believe that a kindness done (especially to a child) is not ever lost! (((hugs)))

Gals, and I think a couple Guys,

The big problem is this is all AFTER THE FACT. I truly believe that no matter what you tell or teach someone, there is absolutely no way to get them to recognize a Sociopath until the Sociopath opens the victims eyes themselves.

Ya’ll are so right about the lying. No amount of punishment or counseling will ever make them see that distortion of the truth is lying. I’m a Victim/Target of a Family member, an Older Brother.

I’ve watched for 30 years now how he has had 1 failed marriage, how his daughter was used before she was even conceived and then tossed away, leaving her to Me and our Mother to raise. How he has had countless Girlfriends walk away from him or turn out to be crazier than him. How his last 11 year engagement ended with his girlfriend suddenly marrying the cook across the street, just to get away from him.

I’ve tried countless times to “warn” his girlfriends to no avail or disastrous results. Now if some woman asks me about him, anything about him, my only response is “Beware,” and then I terminate any contact with them. The problem is that their behavior is just so; for lack of better words, Sick that no one believes you until they experience if for themselves.

Here are some red flags, if anyone is interested.
Friends: They either have few friends, or lots of friends. If they have lots of friends, they don’t know each other. Sociopaths keep their friends apart from one another so they can’t compare stories. And if you are there with a friend of theirs, they will control the conversation.
Verbal abuse: The very first time it occurs, even if directed at someone else, GET OUT. Let them think they got away with it, but get out. And don’t look back!
Life Discrepancies: Look for tell tale signs that they are telling the truth. If you can’t find them, they are probably lying. College degree? You don’t need the piece of paper. Are they a member of an Alumni Association? Do they have any Fraternity Affiliation? In the Military? Can they only produce items that can be purchased at a Surplus store? My Brother’s favorite is that he was Honorably Discharged from the Air-force. The truth is that he was thrown out of the Air-force’s Basic Training after 4 weeks right after his Sargent called our Father and asked him “What is wrong with this boy?”. It was a SNAFU (which I wouldn’t doubt he created) that he even passed the enlistment physical (his ears are bad). The Sargent had to offer Him a Full Medical Discharge with all kinds of Benefits, or an Honorable Discharge with no Benefits. He chose the Honorable Discharge because of the word. He gave it all up for a word. Suffices to say, He NEVER served.
Life Plan Changes: Did something change suddenly after the “I Do?” Get down to the courthouse right away and say “I did under duress,” and get that thing annulled. Then Get out.
Were they nice to your pets then suddenly get nasty? Get out.

And don’t forget, If you’ve somehow gotten involved with a Sociopath…A Nuclear Bomb has been dropped on you and somehow you are the only survivor. Get out, walk away. Your life as you know it is over. Move somewhere and start over again. That’s all you can do.

And don’t forget, in any case, Stop Listening and start Paying Attention!


Hi, All,

I so appreciate you all reading my Letter to Lovefraud above, and offering all of the kind words of support. It has not been easy coming out with my story.

I’ve been amazed by all of the other women who have come out of the shadows as a result of my story being on our local news stations here in Arizona. Women are commenting on my blog that I started, and I’m actually in the process of helping one leave her abuser of 10 years. It’s gratifying to know that I can take my horror story of domestic abuse and turn it into a positive.

If anyone is interested in checking out my blog, where I try to educate others on sociopaths and provide resources to victims of abuse, you can find it here:

Thank you again for being here on this blog and providing support to me and other women who are suffering and healing from being involved with sociopaths.

Ox Drover

Dear BuBu,

Your post is very right on! I’ve been the warn-ER and I have been the warn-ED, and neither of them worked! When I was warned I did not listen, and when I warned others they didn’t listen.

I had to learn on my own, learn from my own pain–but I am a much better LISTENER now!

You are so right about OBSERVING behavior and if you see the red flags then RUN! I don’t make light of a red flag any more. EVER! So maybe sometimes I may be “too harsh” in my judgment of someone’s bad behavior, but BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY. If a “dog” growls at anyone, I don’t give it a chance to bite me!

Ox Drover

Dear TormentedOne,

I love your blog! Great work!!!!

Would also like to ask you a question…after all this, is your X still an air marshal? What about the military reserves?

Did he maintain these jobs after being hauled out of your house by physical force by police?

Thank you for the work you have put into the domestic violence prevention and healing! God bless and help your work!

romanticfool no more

I had the Jeckle and Hyde marriage, only he was a drug addict. I don’t think he was a sociopath, but then, the whole relationship beginning to end lasted about a year and a half. I went right from him to the sociopath.

Remember the scene in the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls back the curtain, and the small pudgy man manipulating the controls to make the Great And Mighty Oz? “Oz” says “Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain.” still trying to bluff it out even though he was in plain view. It took 14 years for Toto to get that curtain fully open for me, but once it happened, I had a ranting, raving, vicious lunatic on my hands. My adult daughter heard him go off and left the house at a run. Once the curtain falls, they have no reason to be nice and good behavior only happens for effect. I had no knowledge of sociopathic behavior, I thought they were all like Hannibal Lector, but I had enough dealings with addicts that I knew confrontation was dangerous.

Tormented, you are very brave, and what a wonderful thing you are doing. Educating people about the red flags is the most important thing. There were a few people in the large complex I live in that I kept away from because I saw those flags. I’m happy to say both are gone now.

One-step, I’m so sorry! Those times just feel like they are going to last forever when you are in them. I read your post and sent you a virtual hug, I hope you got it. Been there, done that, have LOTS of sympathy!!!!


great insights and red flag list.
you are right about warning people, but I’m beginning to think part of the problem is that sometimes the people you are warning are also spaths or spath -wannabees.
They like to see others suffering too and think they are “in” with the spath. What they don’t realize is that they could turn into the next meal at any moment. Some spaths are more evil than others – or at least more focused.



On AOL news today, Taylor Swift writes a song for John Mayer. Here are the lyrics:

Dear John
I see it all now that you’re gone
Don’t you think I was too young
To be messed with
The girl in the dress
Cried the whole way home
I should’ve known.

It was wrong
Don’t you think nineteen’s too young
To be played
By your dark, twisted games
When I loved you so.

My mother accused me of losing my mind
But I swore I was fine
You’ll add my name to your long list of traitors
Who don’t understand
And I’ll look back in regret
I ignored what they said ’Run as fast as you can.

At least she learned early. At 19 I did not even know spaths existed. I can’t stand John Mayer. What a slimy creep. Right up there with Roman Polanski and Mel Gibson. Ugh!!

Taylor seems too nice of a girl to be hanging around with that turd. She needs to listen to her mama..

Ok maybe I shouldn’t hold back in my opinions eh? 🙂

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