By | December 27, 2011 62 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Losing the fear of What Ifs

Editor’s Note: This is another email from the Lovefraud reader whom we’re calling “Adelle.” She previously contributed, Are you seeing someone else? 

I finally left my SP and like the alka-seltzer commercial used to say, “Oh what a relief it is.” My decision to leave was made a long time ago. Today I thought to myself, “Why didn’t I do this sooner?”

I didn’t do it sooner because of fear, of course. I had so many “What Ifs?” I never questioned whether it was in my best interest, I knew it was. The “What Ifs?” were in reference to him. What if he contacts my friends and tries to make me look bad? What if he does damage to my car so that I can’t get around? What if he hacks my email and starts sending emails pretending it’s me? What if he hacks my FB and post nasty things on my page? What if he tries to drain my bank account?

What if he makes good on his word and kills me like he threatened to do if I ever left?

This isn’t living

I recall thinking one day, “I’m already dead.” This isn’t living—living in fear that he may do all these things. I’m depressed, I’m fearful, I’ve lost touch with my friends, I’m angry, hurt, disappointed, I can’t even think straight and this is exactly how he wants me!

So I thought, if I leave and he kills me, well, I wasn’t living anyway, so no loss. But what if I leave and I LIVE! What if my depression goes away, what if I find joy again, what if I can concentrate again? What if I find color in life again? How about that for an IF?

It’s worth the risk, I thought! I did it; I took the risk; and I found a rainbow! He did all the IF’s I feared, but in that decision, in that finding of a colorful life I also lost something. I lost the fear of what ifs. There are friends whom I’ve contacted and have not heard from; my first thought is, “He called them and fed them some lies and they don’t want to talk to me!” I don’t know if that is the case but if it is, I cannot change that. Just as I could not change him and his ways, some things are out of my control and it is well with my soul!

The only power I have is over myself; the first realization of my power was when I acted on my decision, my decision to get out of the STORM because that’s what my life with him felt like, a STORM!

I think most of us have made the decision that we need to leave, that it is in our best interest; but we have a lot of IFS.

A rainbow after the storm

I never understood the “NO CONTACT RULE” like I do now. We need to retrieve our concentration, when we can’t think straight we cannot make good decisions. As long as we remain with the SP he will fill our minds with threats, confusion, nonsense, dirt, mud!

When we have a hurricane and a mandatory evacuation, many people obey; they leave. I’m sure as they drive out of town they wonder; “What if we lose everything, how will we start over?” Nonetheless their priority is to save Self and Family, they will figure the rest out later. Can you imagine them in the middle of the storm, with the winds at 100 mph tearing their roof off, windows breaking, the waters rising over their head, sirens all over the town, the cries of panic, with all this and the task of planning out their new beginning? How successful would they be at planning this new beginning?

Is your soul crying out to you “Evacuate?” Are the IF’s holding you back?

Get out of the storm, the muddy pit that you are in! You will blossom; you will find that what was meant to harm you will only make you stronger. You are now wiser because of this experience; if you do some careful soul searching you will not only learn about other people but much about yourself as well. Be careful not to be so hard on yourself, yes you may have made some mistakes, some bad decisions that landed you in this relationship. Like the old hymn says, “I once was lost but now I’m found, I once was blind but now I see.”

My hope is to encourage you, to share my experience and give you that hope, that inspiration that you are looking for! If you feel your SP is very serious about doing you harm, take legal action (I have) and plan your EVACUATION carefully, you will know when it’s time, you will know when you are ready to blossom!

Today, I don’t think quite the same, I don’t think who cares if he kills me, today I value my life, I will do everything I can to protect myself, because the difference is that NOW I am living! The storm is gone and life is full of color again, yes after a storm ”¦ there is a rainbow!

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Thank you Adelle.

Freedom sounds awesome, but it seems very scary to be on your own without any finances to support yourself.

Being monitored (and taped) by a passive-aggressive, self-centered jerk 24/7 is beyond anything I could ever have imagined in my life…but it’s my sick reality.

The mere fact that I am typing this on a computer that is controlled by my administrator husband (who sees all) must mean that I’m getting strong enough to start standing up for myself…regardless of the consequences! He even chose my email password…which I do not know and can not change. I think that any other email account will match up with this one…and he’ll see all!

I am a good person who has never been unfaithful or sabotaged him. So why does he do this spying on me? His spying would actually seem funny if it wasn’t so insane that he’s watching my every movement and taping my phone conversations in the first place. What he’s doing seems so wrong…wish I could figure out how to screw up this home computer network. My dream would be to find a way to make the system go nuts when he accesses my stuff. I don’t want to destroy the network, but it would seem wonderful if some magical key stroke that he makes would cause his computer’s screen to freeze for maybe 1-2 hours every time he accesses my computer to spy on me. (actually all of his computers…he probably has 8 or more PCs and laptops in his upstairs home office where he works).

Hopefully I’ll soon build up my confidence to the point where I will bolt away from Slag Hell and start to experience a real life and freedom again. But, for now it is just a dream…but it’s nice to dream.

I’m happy for you, Adelle. You give me hope!


Thank you for sharing your experiences, Adelle.

The core of fear is a powerful tool in the ammo bag of the spath – no single tool is more effective for their purposes than FEAR. I know this from my recent experiences, and the “Why didn’t I do this sooner?” sounds reasonable in hindsight, only.

I didn’t recognize the obvious, with exception to the draining of the finances down to zero – that includes my own contributions, as well. The Worm isn’t your typical, charming, dashing, and love-bombing sociopath. Rather, he’s more like a simpering five-year-old that finds sexual interest in the rape, torture, murder, and necrophilia of women. When playing his games with his friends, HE was the submissive, but he truly hates women to such a degree that I have NO doubt that I would have either had a nasty, permanent accident, or become suddenly ill and died in the not-too-distant-future. This was the sudden revelation that I had when I found his nasty bag of tricks. I didn’t have a single clue as to what he really was – he was living a double life, plain and simple.

He also played as if he were an “artist.” About 10 months ago, he asked me to read one of his new short stories – he gave a verbal preamble that went something like this: “Now, you might find it offensive, but it’s just fantasy.” Well, the story was a ripoff of a literary classic that ended with someone who is described, succinctly, as a sociopath who has a penchant for BDS&M….If I had only connected the stupid DOTS, then!!!!! It wasn’t “offensive” as much as it was utterly disturbing. That anyone would think that their wife would want to read about a titmouse of a man who fantasized about being beaten. And, it was horribly written, as all of his work has been, though I never had the heart to tell him that he wasn’t the artist that he believed himself to be.

But, guess what….everything worked out the way that it did for A Reason. If things hadn’t gone the way that they did, I wouldn’t have uncovered the egregious nature of his financial abuse and I would have certainly been out in the proverbial cold. I made a “good decision” to get him out of my life, even if the way that I did it wasn’t the best choice of action. But, he’s gone and I will move forward because I frigging mean to! I refuse to allow the worm to define who I am.

The confidence for myself must come from within me, and from no other person. I’m NOT stupid. I’m NOT ugly. I AM talented, compassionate, loving, and nurturing – I am worthy of loving myself, first, and foremost. Reprogramming myself after years and years of abuse, neglect, more abuse, and more abuse is going to take some time and patience. And, it’s going to take some strong medicine in the form of counseling therapy, for which I am TRULY grateful.

We each have the ability to make the “dream” become reality. We just have to determine when we’ve had enough. In my case, I can walk away without a backward glance at that worm – I’ve had my period of grief for the phantom that I thought I had married, and the cold, hard reality of what the worm truly is makes me grateful, each and every day, that he is gone.

He doesn’t need a restraining order against me! LMAO!!! I’ve imposed my OWN, and it’s called “NO CONTACT.” I never want to speak to the worm, again – there is nothing to say, no questions to ask, nor any answers to hear. It’s done, and my life is my own, again.

Blessings to everyone for a bright, healthy, and positive New Year.


Love this article. Too often we stop asking What IF. Should continue to ask ALL the what IF’s.

As a person who grew up EXTREMELY poor, my fear was being homeless. After all, my spath had COMPLETE control of finances, I hadn’t worked outside our home/biz for all the years of our marriage, I am much older and the economy is bad. Even snappy pros with masters degrees are taking the waitress jobs. And I was SUCH an emotional basketcase, I couldn’t hold a job to save my soul.

I asked myself what if… and concluded I was better off as a homeless person than living (dying) with him.

ps. I didn’t end up homeless.


Absolutely, never believe it is preferable to live a lie with a spath than be ‘on your own’; it is about extremes ..what do they have to do until you leave.

I had it all, big house, income, I took my children and left with no where to go ..I now have a life, my children doing well; financially okayish, but at least my children and I can be ourselves. Spaths are leeches, suck you dry emotionally etc materially I have lost everything, but heck I no longer see my children abused now doing a physics degree, my son will go next year to Cambridge to read classics ..the spath has tried everything to stop their education out of jealousy .it is jealous of his own children! A vile, evil lying nobody goes to criminal proceedings for child abuse shortly and my children will conduct themselves with dignity, honesty and integrity ..the truth outs it just takes time ..many years ..but it always does ..eventually.

No one needs to stay, an adversity to change is in us all ..if desperate enough we leave ..basic protection of ourselves and children. IMConfused, I have read many of your posts ..leave, pack up and simply go ..then no more cameras, you will have your own email account, phone etc ..then he can’t control you anymore ..I know a huge step, but if you don’t then you go on as is ..warm hugs to you x

Ox Drover

I lived in TERROR, the TERROR of “what ifs” is horrible, it is worse than the hurricane it is worse than the tornado, it is worse than anything I ever lived through and I’ve been involved in both a tornado and a hurricane….and even an earthquake! Now, I live cautiously, but no longer in terror! I am evacuated from the epicenter of the storm….and I am watching the “weather channel” but I am NOT living in terror, and I am sure as heck not putting my STUFF over my own life. I can get more stuff, but I only have one life!

GREAT Article, Adelle, thanks for sharing!



I remember when I was going through the “what ifs” a friend of mine told me to state out loud what my greatest fear was. I did – it was my fear that I wasn’t strong enough to survive on my own. My friend, who has known me most of my life said “Why would you think that? You survived a childhood that was a nightmare. Hell, when I used to see your parents in action I had the nightmares – that you were going to be killed. And when you finally decided you had enough of your parents drama you walked out the door with the clothes on your back and worked 3 jobs and put yourself through school. And as for the S? I would have broken by now from the torture the S has put you through. Where on earth did you ever get the idea that you weren’t strong? You are the strongest person I know.”

I guess the point of this whole ramble is that the way we see ourselves after the S is often so distorted. We think we are weak for having tolerated so much abuse when actually, we’re strong — we just can’t see it at the moment.

I remember reading in a book by Tom Wolfe a line which still resonates with me. It was to the effect that the hardest part of making a decision was making the decision. Once you decide on what you’re going to do, it is sort of like stepping off a cliff — there’s no turning back. As I read so many of the stories on this site, that is the thing that always jumps out at me — that once someone really and truly makes the decision that they have to get away from the S in their lives, they step off the cliff whether or not they’ve got the big house, the nice clothes, the job, the money. None of it matters at the end except saving yourself and your kids.

Ox Drover

Matt, great point! The anxiety up to the point of making that decision is awful, but once it is made, it is easy from then on! No more anxiety. No more fear!



“I remember when I was going through the “what ifs” a friend of mine told me to state out loud what my greatest fear was. I did ”“ it was my fear that I wasn’t strong enough to survive on my own.”

I agree with everything your friend told you but would also like to add just one more thing that may not always be so obvious to us, especially for the newbies who are only just getting out…

We are never so alone as when we live with a spath.

They are not “with” us in the conventional sense of the word anyhow – they are CERTAINLY not “with” us emotionally the way that we allow ourselves to be tricked into thinking that they are.

They are usually not “with” us physically, either; so many of them are off being physical with other people, animals, holes in the fence, need I go on?

They spend the entire “relationshit” isolating us physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and financially from those who actually DO care about us and who COULD offer us the love and companionship that every human being craves and needs.

They kill off our support systems and they run interference through our extended networks so that by the time they are “done” with us, it feels like we have nothing, and nowhere to go and nobody to turn to.

Not sure if you can make it “on your own”? Honey, that’s exactly what you have already been doing, only with a deliberately (by the spath) scrambled brain that can’t think or plan or problem-solve. Once you are free of the spath, your brain begins to repair itself and you will find ways around all of the things that appear so insurmountable now.

No – We are never so alone as when we live with a spath.

Go Adelle! Good job 🙂

So happy to read this post. It has a great tone to it. You are definitely somewhere else. And those what ifs…oh, I can relate. And my ex did them all too, but he didn’t kill me! And you’re still alive!!!

Go girl!!! 🙂

Ox Drover

Aussie Girl!!!

Great point, you are never so alone as when your “support” is a psychopath—yea, like a swimming lesson with a mill stone around your neck, supposed to make you stronger! LOL Funny how well we swim with that stone from off our necks!

How are you doing with the security? ((hugs)))



Good quote. You’re never so alone as when you’re with a spath.

I’m NC for a while now, it hits me every so often like it’s hitting me today of wow, I’m in so much pain.

I used to reach out to try to fix things with my spath. I’d want his touch, want him to love me, want him to make me feel less alone. And maybe he would, briefly, and then he’d make things worse. He would lie, he would cheat, he would be his evil self.

So now I am resisting reaching out to him, because while a temporary lift might be there, the end result would be really bad.

Still, it hurts. I don’t know what hurts more, knowing that he hurt me on purpose, or my current loneliness.

Don’t know what to do except to wait it out.



Wait it out. it does get better. I remember reaching out to him to stop the pain, just like a drug addict needing a hit to relieve the stress, hurt and lonliness. But each time the toxic relationship just got worse and I got swallowed up in grief and confusion…it just got to a point that it didnt matter ‘what if’..regardless of what could of should of been done it was to late to to start over ‘one more time’.. it was live or die without him..i am still alive and doing ok, doing better in many ways…but personally i think the encounter with a person like we are talking about will always leave us feeling bewildered.. you can only analyze crazy so much..let go the best you can and life will catch up with you i promise…


I know that pain of wanting the lonliness to go away and that my spath was able to relieve that pain, that is until he learned he could control and abuse me by triggering that pain. I called it the pain of abandonment. What I identified as lonliness was really abandonment. That’s why being around my spath hurt so much, b/c even when he was with me, he wasn’t able to be present as a conscious giving person. I was NEVER so lonely as when I was with him. It was an unending trap.

I researched abandonment issues. One of the solutions was to feed my soul, to fill my soul with fulfillment and joy. I started investigating things that gave me pleasure. Funnily, one of my pleasures is research, I find a subject that is interesting and I pursue it. Another of my pleasures is walking village to village in the UK. SO much history, town museums, and their libraries always have a section on local history. I try to ask the local historian to a meal, a pint etc and I enjoy the conversation b/c the research is fascinating.

I am only sharing what I did to resolve my emptiness and loneliness that being with my spath triggered in me. I did NOT substitute another man. I wanted to be able to rlieve my loneliness MYSELF so that no one would EVER take away my ability to make myself feel better.

Waiting did not improve things for me, it just left me in limbo. I had to be proactive. Eventually I got a dog, and I do volunteer but I learned I needed to volunteer to care for people so I am better in a nursing home, reading to others than I was dusting the objects in a charity shop.

Would like to hear from others what they did about the loneliness. I believe that pain is what keeps a LOT of us going back to the soul suckers.


Katy and Athena,
I remember the first time I tried to break up with my spath.
It was about 3 years into our relationshit. I told him, “We HAVE to break up. This relationship is too hard. I’m missing you already and I haven’t even left. It hurts so much, please help me make it stop hurting. I cried in agony and he cried with me (obviously he was faking it, now I know). We both cried all day and the next in each others’ arms. The pain of CONTEMPLATING leaving him was too much. In the end, I didn’t go. I couldn’t. And my hell lasted for 22 more years. I wish I had gone through the pain the first time, or the second time, or the third…

Research helped me too. I read and discovered the answers to all my questions of why? I solved mechanical puzzles. I ate a lot of sushi. Sushi makes me feel better.

I think there are two things happening. One is loneliness and the other is withdrawal. I experienced withdrawal recently when I encountered 2 women and became friends with them. They turned out to be toxic and I had to cut off my friendship. To my surprise, I experienced withdrawal for about 3 months! I had gotten so used to their love bombing and drama that I had begun to anticipate it, the way an ex-smoker anticipates their after dinner cigarette. The only thing that can change that, is time. The brain will regain its balance.

Loneliness takes work. You have to meet other people and make contact, just be careful that you don’t end up in withdrawal!


here’s a link to an interesting story on Aspergers in the NYTimes.


Withdrawal and lonliness. Two different conditions.

Wait out withdrawal.

Do something, get busy, to combat lonliness.


And eat sushi! I love that. I need to lose 10 pounds. I work out already, so something else has to change. Maybe swapping pizza for sushi.

Thank you.


Skylar isn’t tomorrow your birthday???



Loneliness. Hmmm. You know I’ve wondered how many people put up with shiat relationships because they don’t want to be alone. They make excuses for their partner because they’re afraid of being alone. They stay because it’s easier to do so. Or at least they think it is.
I miss intimacy. I miss having someone to talk to and share my life with. Im lonely in that I don’t have a significant other. It sucks Athena. And, I don’t have a clever answer. Why? Because I’ve never really been on my own you see. I’ve always lived with someone. Parents, ex husband, ex spath. Here I am an old gal of 49 and it’s me alone.

I wish you strength and am sending you a big hug for what it’s worth. I’m new to this alone shiat too.

Ox Drover

Dear Strongwoman,

You know, a year or so after my husband died my son D who lives with me went traveling for 8 or 9 months working with a friend of his who is an independent film producer…and I was rattling around in this huge house like a bb in a box car! LOL I realized that I had never actually LIVED ALONE except for a few months when I was 20. I had always shared a domicile with someone. Even when my son is gone during the summer for 2-3 months and I rarely if ever hear from him during that time as what half day they have off each week is usually spent sleeping! LOL but I don’t feel “lonely” even though no one is here with me, it is just the IDEA of being “alone” that made me feel lonely I think.

Though my son shares a domicile with me, we aren’t up in each others faces 24/7 as he does his thing and I do mine and then we do things together and work together, but it is just knowing that someone else is “here” even if I were to not even see him all day.

Since he was gone that 8 or 9 months, I realized what the “uneasy” feeling was in the evenings and it doesn’t bother me now.

I think if he were to get married or take a job out of state or actually “move” somewhere else I’d probably see if I could find a paying room mate just to have another soul on the place and maybe someone to feed the bird if I go somewhere…but I am content with my own company. It’s peaceful around here, but not lonely….even if I am alone.


Ox, you’re funny. Like a bb in a box car? What IS that?? Lol.

I was reading your post on another thread, don’t trust as far as you can throw a cow by it’s tail.
You’re funny and kind and i like that.

Anyway, this flipping loneliness thing…. I hear what your saying an I like my own company too but you know what I miss just talking. In case you haven’t noticed, I love to talk.



Thanks for the article in the NY Times Sky. It was a good article. I often think about who would put up with some of Grand’s little quirks. Sometimes I have all I can do to “go with the flow”.

Ox Drover

Thanks Strongawoman,

I think I missed my calling as a stand up comic! LOL Sometimes my humor is a bit of “gallows humor” (laughing when I feel like crying!) but a laugh is better I think when there is nothing else you can do except laugh at yourself or your situation!

The first six months I was on loveFraud that “summer of chaos” I spent 20 hours a day hunched over my computer “whistling in the dark” and crying.It is a wonder I didn’t drown my computer.


yep, another revolution of the sun begins tomorrow for Skylar. Oh wait, that’s tonight… I was born at midnight. I’ll break out the tequila and start posting right after 12AM…


You do have the ability to turn a phrase. Think you should keep a log. “a wonder you didn’t drown your computer”. Amen dear friend. I do so empathize about the crying. I thought I’d never stop b/c crying did not relieve my grief.

Finally one day, I decided to stop waiting for my grief to dissipate. I wanted the hurt that caused the grief to stop. From that day on, I pursued the remedy.


scratchin head here, No one ever get’s to see what could of been, do they?

Ox Drover

What guy said “the saddest words of tongue or pen are “it might have been.” ? That’s true….but you know I am glad sometimes that I don’t have to see what MIGHT HAVE BEEN….I prefer what IS.


Sky ~ Happy Birthday (after midnight) ~ mine is the next day ! I’ll share that tequila with you, you can have the worm !!!

Hens ~ Ebenezer Scrooge got to see what could have been with the ghost of Christmas Future. He changed, apparently he was not a spath.

Ox Drover

Yea, happy birthday to both of you, Milo and Sky!!!!! The days go slow and the years go fast!


o sky o milo happy birthday 2 u 2


LOL! funny Hens! You’re a poet!

thanks Milo and Oxy. Cheers and Happy BDay Milo!

I shoulda known you were a capricorn, Milo. Did the last 2 years seem like one earth shaking catastrophe after another to you? Pluto was in Capricorn. It’s gone now, things should settle.


I DEF saw the handwriting on the wall. That’s why I left my spath’s world. NOW my life is FULL of possibilities. I’d rather have possibles over might have happened every time.


Oh katydid. I saw my x’s handwriting on a few walls too ~ ~! oh my.


Happy Birthday Skylar & Milo! Many Blessings.


THANKS EVERYONE for the birthday wishes and blessings, I appreciate it.

Yes, Sky the last two years have seemed like one catastrophe after another. I’m glad Pluto has moved on, now if the Spath would do the same thing I might have a chance. LOL


Thanks Ana!

I don’t know whether you follow horoscopes, but mine often seem to be uncannily accurate.

An interesting twist is that the trojan horse’s bday is the same day as Hitler’s and my ex-spath’s bday is the same day as Hitler’s girlfriend Eva Braun. It would be nice if they met the same fate together…


Greetings everyone, it’s Adelle! First time logging in for comments. I was hesitant because I know SP has been here. I read he was trying to get some of you regulars to help edit and what have you. Oh well, I expected nothing less! I could go on with negative things about him but I think his introduction has done that already, so thanks SP for sparing me the trouble. I’d like to thank all of you for your support and encouragement. I’ve been reading for over a year now but all I did was read; just reading stories of individuals who had taken that step of leaving was enough back then because it gave me hope that one day I would be there and here I am! I read Hens comment -“Scratching head-no one ever gets to see “What could have been”. The only could have been that I can think of is “I could have ended up in a nut house” – I also think, why waste time thinking “What could have been”…I wasted enough time in Fantasy Land! I do understand how some of us may want to see what could have been and I respect that. I also know that we all heal differently and think differently and I respect that as well, my reality is so good there is no need for me to think of what could have been. I know that our SP’s will try to invade us here and I know why. This is where we get our support, this is where we find strength and they want us weak, LF blog is a threat to them, my God if we keep this up; they may not have anymore victims! Again, thanks for all your support; stay strong!


Thanks, Adelle,

As I posted elsewhere, The Land of What Should Be is where the spaths hang out, selling us their stories about a beautiful life together. If we live in What Is, we find that it’s not so bad as we thought. In a sense, can live without “hope,” choosing possibility and making-it-happen instead. But I think I know what you mean by hope. One has to envision something.



What do you mean, “selling us their stories about a beautiful life together”? Tell me?

My spath said a few things –
“can you imagine what our kids would be like if we had any together?”
“can you imagine what great decisions we would make if we were together?”
“we would be be there, to take care of eachother, to talk about what happened at work at the end of the day”

Of course, Mr. SPATH was living with his ex wife at the time,
unbeknownst to me.



Athena – So he is painting a pretty picture of what if’s while he is living with his wife/xwife? Sounds like a nitemare to me. Wish in one hand and spit in the other and see wich one fills up the quickest..somethin like that.
I think we all would of done things different if we knew then what we know now..but it’s what we know now that keeps us from repeating what we did back when we didnt know what we know now. In other words…The Truth Will Set You Free, but first it will PISS you off.

New Beginning

Regarding loneliness, there is a nationwide network of social groups via The concept began in 2001 after the 9/11 tragedy as a way for people to get out and be with others. There are some singles groups and they are stated as such but most are just a mix of people looking for others to do things with. The groups I belong to go hiking, snowshoeing, to the movies and plays, out to eat, skiing and really about any activity that one can think of. There are also book clubs, beach volleyball, knitting groups….there really is something for everyone. The best part is it’s always a “group” activity. It works well for me as I am reluctant to add new individual friends to my life at this time due to the trust factor and dealing with too many losses this year. Some gatherings have a fee of $1 or $2 that goes to the organizer as in addition to organizing activities, they also have to pay for their website. For me, it has been a good way to start living again.

Happy Birthday Sky and Milo! 🙂


Ox Drover

Dear Adelle,

Thanks for your article and glad you are here! Don’t know which one of the “trolls” that pop out from under the bridge and try to be “big billy goat gruff” was “your” particular piece of carp, but he won’t fool this bunch for long, if at all. LOL

I’m glad you’re here and glad you are recovering! It is amazing what knowing that we are not alone, just that ONE thing if nothing else, helps us to get on that road to recovery! (((hugs))))



Holy shiat, that made me laugh! Thank you! HUGS!
“First it will piss you off”. OMG is that true or what.

New Beginning,

You are right on about the meetup site. I am a member of a club on there, met some fantastic people and we all share the same hobby. We mostly get together in the summer, but you’re right, I should get my butt in gear and get in touch with them again. You are a blessing. Thank you for reminding me.

I am amazed at what a social creature I am, or that we all are. I loved a guy who didn’t love me back, and not only that, but he hurt me on purpose, and I’m paralyzed by it. I’ve got to move on.

The giggles from Hens were good medicine.

Happy Birthday Again, SKYLAR and MILO! HUGS to you both.



athena ,
thank you for giggling, alot of my nonsense is just to make somebody smile for a minute, life goes on, humor helps…thanks, sometime’s I feel like I have worn out my welcome here…


Hens have a hug.

When I first came here I thought hens? Like cluck cluck variety and then someone revealed it’s short for Henry. I was like ohhhh righttt …derr.

Anyway, Hens I like reading your posts. Like you say it’s good to laugh and you make me chuckle.


New Beginning & Athena ~

Thanks for the birthday wishes, another year older and I hope a whole lot wiser (thanks to friends here at LF).

I am sure I don’t have to give any warnings to you two, but be on guard with meetup sites, just like any other internet social site. I say this from experience. My P/daughter is signed up on many of the meetup groups in her area, and attends the meetings. Her sole reason is to meet victims. She belongs to groups like young business women (she is not a business woman, unless selling drugs counts) free thinkers (hahaha) hiking groups, book groups, coffee club, young singles group, spiritual group, and last ABUSE SURVIVORS. She has attended many “abuse survivor” groups of one kind or another over the years. She “steals” their stories, their emotions, their words, even facial expressions so when she wears the mask of an abuse survivor in court or wherever she deems it appropriate, she knows exactly how to act. And as we all know these people make perfect “P targets”.

So, just beware of the P in sheep’s clothing.

Thanks again everyone for the good wishes.

New Beginning

Milo, thank you for adding that. Should have thought of it as I see P’s everywhere now even when some (or most) of them probably are not. Red flags abound in my world after being married to a P for 30 years and now realizing his entire family are also P’s except for his Dad who happens to have an untreatable cancer. My former MIL has been contacting me saying she just “knows” the P and I will get back together. Have to bite my lip to keep myself from responding that we wouldn’t be back together even if we were the last two people on earth.

As meetup goes, I have encountered a few narcissitic organizers and stay clear of those groups. Also completely stay away from individuals who are clingy. When others ask for my phone number with the hope that we can get together, I will tell them that I am still in a healing phase (lost my Mom right after the divorce from P) and am staying with only group activities for now. I should also add that I do not go to any gathering which only ends up with a few people attending. Call me crazy or call me vigilant but safety is paramount.

Yes, the P’s are everywhere in their sheep’s clothing. Not sure if I will ever be letting anyone new get close to me. I hope time will change that but for now I’m still on the one day (possibly two) at a time mode.

Hope you had a wonderful birthday, Milo!


Thanks for the birthday wishes, New Beginning.

Milo, thanks for the warning about meetups. Your P-daughter’s masks, take the cake! I’ve been considering meetups myself, so I’ll be on alert. speaking of cake… have some! Happy birthday.

Ox Drover

Anytime you meet ANY ONE ANY WHERE you should be aware that they could be a psychopath in sheep’s clothing.

This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to learn the red flags.

The clingy/needy person, or the person that immediately LOVE BOMBS you needn’t be a person looking for romance, they can be an old woman or an old man, or someone like MiLo’s daughter who is a full fledged nut-job psychopath who is trolling for victims…

LEARN THE RED FLAGS and HONOR THEM! That is the key to safety.

Sometimes I see the red flags ONLY IN RETROSPECT! LOL

Even now, I can look back on a person I met recently who was high in P-traits, and presented as a VICTIM, but I hadn’t noticed the red flags of “love bombing” until she went into the devalue and discard mode! When I went NC she went OFF! Striking out at everyone she could contact who might think well of me. Fortunately, she was not someone that was going to remain long in my life, and as FURIOUS as I was with some of the nasty things she said, I maintained my NC, which of course infuriated her more. But it was another lesson for ME. Fortunately not at any great cost in terms of emotional distress, or money or time.

We can all get fooled from time to time, but we must forgive ourselves for doing so, and TAKE THE LESSONS from the experience. If you keep people at “arm’s length” emotionally until you get a chance to REALLY see them in various situations, then you won’t get BLIND SIDED to any great extent.

And, once you do see the red flags, the rages, or whatever, you immediately pull back and reassess the situation CLEARLY. People who are kind, caring and honest may have some disagreements, but they will not EXPLODE on you, and they will discuss the situation calmly and rationally, and you can come to some meeting grounds.

A sincere apology is something that good people are not loath to do, and that includes an acknowledgment of their behavior, and their sorrow for it, as well as a promise (that they keep) not to reengage in that kind of behavior. In short, they KEEP THEIR WORD. They are honest, kind, caring, loving (an action verb) and you can count on their word being “their bond.”

New Beginning


You’re welcome and I hope it was a good day.

The Meetup groups have worked well for me though I am cautious and I don’t go to EVERY event there is as I want to maintain a distance for now. It does help with feeling I’ll possibly have a life again and I suspect there are many other people there who are also recovering from P’s. Today I am headed out to get microspikes (to prevent falls in snow/ice/mud) for a New Year’s Day hike! 🙂 Getting outside and exercising always helps my state of mind.

My very first meet-up experience almost sent me packing from the entire thing. I was a little late arriving at a restaurant and when I walked in, one of the men with the meet-up group looked at me and said “well I just may meet my future wife here”. Yikes! Still I just stay true to keeping with only group activities…..and only groups of 5 or more.

Not sure if my situation is a little different than some others however I was drugged and sexually assaulted at a place that should have been one of the safest to be. I am very much in a “don’t you dare come near me” phase and also only let my son and two good life long friends enter my home. So yes, I am extremely cautious with the meet-up groups and individuals within them. So far, so good. *keeping fingers crossed*.

New Beginning

Great post, Oxy! Then again, all of your posts are in that category. 🙂

I agree that sometimes the red flags are still only visible in retrospect because we don’t *think* like a P no matter how accustomed we’ve become to their ways. Also agree that it takes observing a person over a period of time in various situations in order to begin to assess who they are.

There is quite a variety of people in all of the groups I am a member of and I look at it as an opportunity to better decipher various personality traits. I refuse to let my ex-P cause my life to be lived in isolation. That would be the ultimate “win” for him.


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