Editor’s Note: In this post, another Lovefraud reader tells her story of being deceived by a sociopath.
He was an attractive, well built-man for his 47 years. When we met three years ago, I thought he was extremely handsome and charming. He was fun to be around, and seemed to crave the same physical and emotional contact as I did. He said he was not married and that he had just ended a relationship with a woman he had been dating because she was pressuring him to meet his daughters and he was not ready for that kind of intimacy.
Over a short period of time, about four weeks, he talked about his abusive mother, his time in the Navy as a SEAL and a reservist. He suffered from the same kind of distant relationship with his wife as I had with my husband. He said she had mental problems and was very abusive toward him. Our values and standards seemed very similar. A graduate of University of New Mexico, he claimed, he wanted to be a doctor at one point and had done quite well on the entrance exam. He just couldn’t afford it He seemed smart, with a great sense of humor.
He seemed very intuitive and was extremely responsive to me. I had been married for 20 years to a man who didn’t pay attention. I craved this kind of physical and emotional attention. He was loving, affectionate, generous. He loved taking me places and out to dinner (which my ex-husband refused to do). He gave me his time and did so willingly. When we weren’t together we talked for hours on the phone. He was on the road a lot working in sales and seemed to value hard work. He said he had worked three jobs at one point so that his ex-wife could stay at home with their children and so that he could afford the lifestyle they enjoyed (home on a golf course, home on a lake). I envied this as I had always worked full-time at the demand of my husband.
Says he’s in love
We saw each other a few times and within a month he called one evening and told me he was in love with me. It was sweet. He was adorable. On our next meeting, he was so romantic and attentive. At one point he asked me how I felt about people who killed other people. I was stunned but thought it must have something to do with his work as a SEAL. It was like he needed to talk about something and I wished he would just open up to me. That very next day he called me and told me he could not see me anymore because he was in love with me and his intuition from all of his abuse was telling him that he would only get hurt. I was devastated. Had I done or said something wrong? I was in the process of relocating. He knew that, but the distance did not seem unsurmountable. There was no talking to him. He refused my calls and by the end of the week he did speak to me and told me his ex-wife had had some surgery and he was going to move her into his home and was going to take care of her while she recovered. He said she was crazy but he had to do this.
About four months later, I contacted him to let him know I was settled in my new location and my divorce was moving forward. He asked if he could visit me. He missed me and wanted to reconnect. I was so happy and excited. We spent a few weekends together. It was during one of those weekends that he told me he was married and had been all along. That was the first red flag and I should have kicked him to the curb then. We were away on a very romantic weekend in a small cabin in the mountains. His weekend was filled with drama (calls from his wife and daughter). They thought he was on a hunting trip. He told me his intention was to leave his wife within the next two months and that almost everything had been ironed out because they had been separated and close to divorce previously. He had already been looking for an apartment. I asked him about the woman with whom he had a relationship and he said he had an affair with her that lasted a short time and he regretted it almost immediately. He did not love her. He was so lonely and felt so abused by his wife. I was already in love with him. It was that weekend that he told me he could easily be married to me and that he wanted me to meet his daughters.
Little boy demeanor
Mostly, he had this little boy demeanor about him. I saw the hurt in his eyes when he talked about his mother’s physical and emotional abuse. I couldn’t stand to even listen to it. I can’t even watch movies that have anything to do with abusing children. He cried when he told me the story about being tortured as a Navy SEAL. He said his captors hooked electrodes to his testicles and shocked him. He couldn’t stand to listen to the cries of his SEAL partner also being tortured along side him. When the event finally ended and they were rescued he said he had killed his captor. He explained that he believes his testicles are smaller than normal because of this torturous event. He talked about how he wanted to go to Iraq and work for Blackwater consulting. He said he had been offered the opportunity to do so because of his SEAL background. Again, that little boy quality of wanting to just run away from it all. His daughters were very demanding and he talked about some of the problems he had with them over the years. He described his older daughter has lacking a “social filter” and said his younger daughter was bi-polar. They were both adults now but still extremely demanding financially. He seemed like a good father. He could not say no to them.
In the coming months he found he was being relocated to the city where I was living. “It was fate,” as he stated. What a coincidence. We were meant to be together. He felt higher powers were bringing us together. In that time he began talking more about his life as a SEAL and how he was also working part time consulting for the NSA (National Security Agency). He said he was an explosives expert and he had helped the NSA to plan the deaths of terrorists. Little by little he gave me additional information about his “part-time job” as he called it. At one point he told me he had killed seven people. On a trip to Canada, he introduced me to a woman, whose appearance was questionable, who he said had been one of his informants. I now believe she was one of his girlfriends who he frequented in his many travels.
Meeting his daughters
He did relocate. I met his daughters. It was not easy. His oldest, now 24, would call constantly to berate him for leaving her (she was away in college and living with her fiance). She eventually told her father she hated me. On many occasions she appealed to him by saying “She doesn’t like me daddy.” She also told him she was getting married simply because she felt insecure about him leaving her. Subsequently, her marriage lasted five months. He and his daughter had what I would call an emotionally incestuous relationship. They discussed personal and sexual things that I thought were inappropriate. She physically hung on him like a lover and spoke to him as though she had ownership. It was disturbing. His younger daughter was also manipulative but in a different way.
Read more — Seduced by a sociopath: It’s not love, it’s love fraud
Initially, I tolerated the drama, the emotional outbursts, the bad behavior and much disrespect from his daughters. Each time we would go away together his older daughter would call incessantly and would tell him her disapproval of our relationship. His younger daughter would call and tell him how he should have been with her instead. On one occasion his ex-wife called to tell him she had herpes and got it from using her sister’s towel (so he said). I think that maybe she called to tell him he had given her herpes, but he eventually told me she was lying about all of it simply to try to keep him from having sex with me or anyone. This was normal in his life. I can’t begin to write all of the stories and drama, cancelled trips because of the drama. I chalked it up to his divorce and the trauma of the family separation.
Calls from the NSA
There were many restricted calls on his cell phone at all hours of the night. He insisted that the calls were form a former NSA partner who was in trouble. He cried because he was not able to have contact with this man outside of official business. He decided that he was going to leave the NSA and actually went to Fort Mead one day (so he said) to be debriefed as he left this covert role. He seemed so dedicated to his work. He wore dog tags around his neck. He showed me his Navy SEAL trident pin. He gave my son a SEAL cap and t-shirts. He said he had used aliases and had traveled the world doing this work for the NSA. I asked him how this was possible while working full time and he said that some of his work was done on his own as he did his regular full-time job, but when he traveled for the NSA he just took vacation time here and there. He said his wife didn’t pay much attention and never called him when he was out of town so she never knew. He also talked about how he used a satellite phone so his wife could not see his caller ID when he called home from abroad. That was why he restricted his number on his cell phone.
He left town one day for a nine-hour trip in the car to visit his younger daughter. I spoke to him late in the afternoon and he should have been at his destination but he was not. He started crying and said he had to re-route to visit with some former NSA people. The friend who had reached out to him had been killed. He said, “If the FBI comes knocking on your door or anyone ever tells you I died of a drug overdose, don’t believe it, because I would never do that.” The stories were becoming too bizarre. I wanted to believe him but something did not seem right. The emotional outbursts and crying seemed to always come at a time when I would find later he was not truthful about something.
A few months later his older daughter started to send emails to me telling me that my children were not invited to her wedding. It caused a big argument right before his birthday. I asked him to please handle it; that it was between them. He blamed me. I had rented a house for his daughters and he and I to spend the weekend. He left me at home and went alone.
Uncovering the lies
We did eventually get back together. The next few months I uncovered that he had lied to me about his homes. He had not worked three jobs. His primary home had been given to him by an aunt. He had sold stock, which was given to him by another aunt, as a down payment on his lake home. His mother had given him money for three years after his father’s death. I also uncovered that he had not earned the salary he quoted to me. I suspect that he was embezzling from his mother as she lay dying in a nursing home. As if this was not enough.
Again, he tried to hide the truth through another emotional outburst claiming to be ill and have been throwing up blood. He apologized, bought me an engagement ring and wedding bands. We started building a home together. A month later we had completed selections for our home. He fought with me again, accusing me of sleeping with and dating other men. He disregarded me for two days. I went to his apartment to speak with him, only to find him in bed with a woman 18 years younger than he, who he picked up the night before in a biker bar. I was traumatized. He accused me of cheating and told me I drove him to this behavior.
Never a SEAL
I reached out to people at the POW Network who put me in touch with a former Navy SEAL and author, who assisted me in finding the truth. The truth was this man had served four months in the Navy before being discharged. Not only was he not a SEAL, he never worked for the NSA. No Navy SEAL has ever been a POW. His dog tags were not real, nor was his trident pin or SEAL diving watch. And all the articles of clothing he gave away and wore, could be purchased online. I confronted him with all that I had learned. He insisted that I was wrong. While having this conversation with him I noticed he had a SEAL banner hanging in his apartment. It was new. I asked him why a 50-year old man would hang a SEAL banner above his bed. He had supposedly not been a SEAL for 30 years. Then I asked him if it attracts young girls who adore his service as a SEAL as they sit on top of him in his bed.
Abusing steroids
I found used and unused needles in his apartment and in his trash. It was then that I realized the lies covered up other lies. He was abusing steroids. I tried to appeal to his sister, thinking she may get him some help. She made excuses for him. I did not understand even then what I was dealing with. I blamed myself for a long time. I tried to make sense of it all and to rationalize the bad behavior, the steroid abuse, the lies. Everything was a lure — his body, his stories, his lies. I don’t think he is a graduate of the university but I have not been able to verify that.
His testicles were not small from the torture he said he had suffered. They were small because he was suffering the result of steroid abuse. It’s also why he shaved his head (hair loss). At the time he was also being tested for heart, liver and kidney problems and was being treated for high blood pressure. These are all symptom of steroid abuse. This man was physically sick, but also a pathological liar. He then decided to be a bouncer at the biker bar where his new girlfriend worked. She was on welfare with three illegitimate children, had cancer and kept getting kicked out of homes and apartments because she couldn’t pay her bills (according to him). They were also “just friends” according to him, because he never wanted to take care of her or her children. Keep in mind, I have an advanced degree, a beautiful home, a responsible job. I pay my bills and I am an attractive woman for my 47 years. I could not understand any of it.
After the devastation
A year later and I am trying to heal from this devastating fraud. I believe now that he is a sociopath and I was targeted. I also believe that the drama in his life is a result of his sociopathy. I believe his older daughter is also a sociopath and that his younger daughter may be misdiagnosed as bipolar. I met the worst possible person at the worst possible time. My head was reeling and my heart could not keep up. How did I get so wrapped up in someone like this when clearly all the red flags were there? For a period of time, I dropped my guard and my boundaries. I did it because I was lonely. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I cared deeply for this man, who had been so badly abused. In the process, I allowed him and his badly behaved adult daughters to abuse me too.
A few months ago I heard he had a heart attack. I started searching obituaries thinking that maybe he died. I searched the Internet and found his name and face on the POW Network as a man who has potential to be prosecuted for violating the Stole Valor Act of 2006. There are many men like him on this web page. The people there were extremely helpful to me and they do fantastic work. THIS is his only crime. I had contact with the woman he said he had a short affair with. I found that he met her in the same exact place he met me. He spewed the same lines. He took us to the same places for weekend trips. He told this woman he was in process of a divorce but I don’t believe he had never been separated from his wife. He had an affair with her for a year and a half — then one day he called and told her he was getting back together with his wife. And that was the last she heard from him. Cold and heartless, he is gone from her life.
What kind of love is that? She said that he left her often for periods of time but that he always came back. She said he treated her like a princess. She told me that she wanted to die. She lost her job, and had a DUI. The suffering is incredible. The lies are pathological. Their families cover for them. The abuse confuses otherwise emotionally healthy people. They eat away at our souls and take away our innocence and ability to love completely again.
Hit and run
They are a devastating storm that changes lives forever in the aftermath. They hit and run, never to be found guilty or to pay for the devastation, because people like this do not feel empathy and don’t understand the pain they have caused. They don’t have consciences and so they continue the devastation somewhere else. They don’t care and never did. They have become good at imitating the emotions that normal people display and truly feel. Still I try to make sense of something senseless, irrational. There are no answers, even in finding out the truth. I loved this man. I forgave him many times. He projected all his sins on to me. He called me names and verbally abused me. He left me often. He lied and cheated. And for a while, even my friends and family thought me to be the one who was insane — because I still loved him and forgave him and I let him back in. Still he walked away blaming me and talking badly about me. I want that loving innocence back again. I despise him, mostly for stealing that away from me.
It can happen to anyone
I have read many books, participated in blogs and message boards, have corresponded with professionals and have had therapy with a wonderful doctor who understands sociopathy and personality disorders. Still there is no logic and there is no closure. It must be found through realizing:
1. I was targeted at a vulnerable time.
2. I was targeted because of the good qualities about me.
3. He is not a good man. He is disordered and will never heal or improve.
4. He did this to others and will continue to do this.
5. My good standards will not be lowered again and I have a zero tolerance for what I have learned is the definition of abuse.
6. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME.
Abuse is not just verbal or physical. It comes in many forms. At a minimum I require respect, honesty, integrity and it must be displayed by way of actions, not words. This man was not able to follow through on anything. His actions were almost never consistent with his words. He is simply a fake, a phony, a con man, who conned me into giving him my heart, my love and almost my mind and soul. Not one thing was real about him, not his body, or his being. I don’t think I will ever forgive him and I certainly will never forget. I have, however, forgiven myself, as I have learned that this can happen to ANYONE. None of us is free from the grasp of the sociopath.
Learn more — Don Shipley: Exposing phony Navy SEALs
Lovefraud originally posted this article on Nov. 12, 2008.
Iwonder: See the overall picture of what anyone does when they lie and bring a 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. party into the relationship.
He’s not being truthful and focusing HIS FULL ATTENTION and LOVE on the main (partner that shares the abode) …
He’s not being truthful and focusing HIS FULL ATTENTION and LOVE on the secondary partner (who thinks she’s the only partner or will be the only partner) ….
He’s not being truthful and focusing on himself to be able to GROW and LOVE and RESPECT one other (the gift from God to have a partner to share your life).
Therefore, all parties involved are loosing. Not just the main or the secondary partners … he too is loosing.
Peace.
Wini:
I know. Now my ex is with the OW since I kicked him out. They are one-on-one. Who knows. Maybe they will live happily ever after. Maybe he won’t cheat anymore. Maybe it was just that he fell out of love with me. Everything he loved about me in the beginning he wound up hating: My independence, better paying job than his, he even turned the fact that I am white against me and said i have a better job because I’m white. Well, he down-graded to a less attractive woman of his own race who makes less money and is very needy. So, maybe it’s a perfect match. Perhaps the grass is greener with her. Maybe she doesn’t invoke those problems he had with me. Jealousy – can’t be jealous because guys won’t look at her, she doesn’t make more than him so that is not a problem, same race, etc. and she believes everything he says. so there.
Iwonder: I doubt he is any different with this woman as he was with you … and then the next and the next and the next.
That’s neither here nor there … it is you going on in life with peace and serenity in your heart … to continue to love, to continue to have faith … to continue … so that when the perfect partner walks into you space, you will be ready to begin anew.
Peace.
Wini:
Thanks. I gotta love me. But being discarded doesn’t make me feel very loveable right now. I ask myself, “what does she has that I don’t?” And then I answer myself, “it’s what she DOESN’T HAVE” that makes her more appealing. I believe she was going through a divorce when they met so she was very vunerable for someone to love. He latched onto that like a magnet. I don’t blame her nor am I angry at her. She’s just another victim.
I would have been so much better had he said he met someone else and needs to move out BEFORE he started dating her. It was the deceit that went on behind my back for 8 months while I was a sucker paying bills, doing laundry and believing we were engaged to be married. That’s the kicker. Also the fact that after I kicked him out, he thought he was entitled to my car and was not going to sign off on the deed papers. I saw no remorse or guilt or anything other than him wanting to get something from me to take into the other relationship. He hasn’t a clue about right or wrong. He actually said to me, “now you are always saying to do the right thing. well the right thing is to let me keep the car.” HUH?? The one I paid for? I asked, “what about the $6,000 in payments and maintenance I put into it?” Reply, “well, I don’t know what to tell you about that.” UGH.
Iwonder: The 3 deaths I experienced in the last 2 months … conicidentaly all reached the age of 88. My uncle, Rose, my friend and now my friend’s father. All turned 88 years old some time this year.
Now their human existence is over. Their spirit goes on … and that is the mystery … until we too leave this earth to dwell in the house of our Lord.
88 Years … that’s a long, loving life for all three of these wonderful, wonderful people.
88 years on earth, housed in human form … to venture back to spiritual … to dwell with our father in heaven for eternity.
Now, I don’t know if 88 years of life means anything to you or it doesn’t. To me, 88 years is a pebble on a beach in the scheme of eternity.
Our EXs demand that they get their glory down here on earth, thinking they can do what they want to do, when they want to do it, any time they want to do it … this is it. Life down on earth, in human form, they believe, is all there is to our existence. Not realizing or believing what is not seen … that any other existence surrounds all of us. Not believing that there is accountability for their actions … that they can act any way they want with or to anyone they want. They truly believe in only what is seen, what they can touch, what they can feel (that’s an oxymoron) …in short, they lost their faith in who and what they really are, who and what all of us really is … they are lost souls.
Peace..
Iwonder: One more thought … I do believe our EXs think that humans are the most intelligent life force in the universe (LOL).
Just thought I’d through that sarcasm in to the mix.
Peace.
You know, in reading this site I am totally amazed that there are all these people out there who have been damaged by the same sick influence that robbed me of now 49 years of my life as I grew up with an emotionally abusive sociopathic, malignant narcisist father and a totally co-dependent accomodating enabling mother and I missed my only chance of escape during college because I carried the scars within and was unable to reach out for help or change due to my abusive upbringing.
I used to read about these types of people who were caught as criminals and think that they were just liars and sick people and not worry about what sickness they had because hey, it didn’t affect me, right? Hey, wait! I LIVED that nightmare and am a living survivor and accomodator of those people because I was raised to not be ABLE to demand any kind of accountability in anyone else. Why? Because my father, controller of anything meaningful in life and family, refused to be accountable to anyone for any reason and he was always right according to my mother because (as she stated many times) he knew best and he ws in charge of everything and was the only one who could handle things as he was the only one authorized and knowledgeable enough to handle them. After all, he was the only one with any information and nobody was entitled to have any information from him about anything. So, for example, the IRS didn’t know anything and was simply persecuting him for 12 straight years because there was of course nothing susicious about what my father was doing — after all he was in control of the world, right? It was the IRS that was wrong — and so was the state of NY and every competitor or contractor that he put in a bid to for work or had an unpaid invoice or whatever…. how can a sociopath be wrong? It’s impossible right? So why are all these people so hard on the only guy in the world that knows the right things to do and the only right ways to do them? (uh… I’m being sarcstic here in case nobody is picking that up…. but this was my reality growing up and in my working life for 40 years….)
No disclosure is a HUGE KEY to seeing who is a sociopath I have discovered. If someone is not willing to disclose every little thing about themselves and their work and have it held up to scrutiny then I will pin the label of sociopath on them right there. At least now I will — never before I figured out what this illness really is. And it’s funny that people who ARE sociopaths will go to great lengths to create evidence to cover up their lies (as was demonstrated in one story on this site) so I think as a society we need to teach ourselves and our kids and our collegues to do spot checks with the intention of giving out credit not spreading paranoia — but that these spot checks will indeed ferret out the sociopaths in the crowd for our mutual benefit. The only problem is that these sociopaths are just let go and not locked up or put through remedial cures (if such a thing exists) to protect others in society.
What to do, what to do… I mean, society sort of teaches people how to be a sociopath when they teach something like resume writing for your first job (for example) because the minute you sort of gloss the facts to look better for a job, you are starting that first step down the path towards lying and building a false existance of sociopathy that you sort of have to live up to then BUT they actually tell you to do this in order to get ahead in your career… so maybe society doesn’t want any strict rules of accountability. The fine line becomes where glossing ends and where lying starts if you know what I mean and that line seems to move depending on the societal pressures for getting ahead which seem to have been pushed along over the years by economic pressures and changing working environments. Or maybe these pressures just get stronger with age and the person’s need to achieve. I don’t know. I’m learning and thinking out loud. But once that little first step is made then the other steps become easier and you end up with these people like the guy above who at the age of 47 has an entire false life and false history and hidden reality that he doesn’t even understand or acknowldge and he’s infected all those areound him with his own illness of falsity because of years of false information and lack of accountability for himself. So the cycle continues even worse in the next generations until it gets so bad that the kids are simply not able to bond and reproduce and the family line dies out.. hopefully — for the benefit of society I guess… .
Anyway, I think I will add a few rules of survival of my own here because the original poster of this story did an EXCELLENT JOB of summarizing the 6 rules above for surviving this — what…. 4 year ordeal? Well, I have 49 years of growing up with it and finally understanding sort of the damage that it caused and possibly how to recognize it and try to fix certain aspects of it. I’m not sure all aspects of it are fixable but here goes my initial list of “rules” and thanks again list of people for letting me vent a bit….
1) THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU (remember that is YOU) when you have been put upon by a sociopath. In otherwords, in seeking counselling over the decades (yes.. 30 years worth) my opening statement was always, “I don’t know what is wrong with me but there is something very very wrong with me and I don’t know what it is….” and then we would spend the entire time in therapy, years somtimes, trying to figure out why I couldn’t relate to men and had such bad passive / aggressive reactions to controlling people in work or social situations and all this other rot as if the problem was within me… and all that had to happen to undo any progress was that I would make some sort of breakthrough of seeing that my father and mother had caused some sort of problem and I would call them for some family reason and bang! I’d be back to being my co-dependent helpless self who was being told that I remembered it wrong and that that was not true so it had to be within me and not because of them…. or that I had interpreted it wrongly so it was still my fault… blah blah blah…. So remember that IT IS NOT A PROBLEM WITHIN YOU at all … and if you are a therapist, beware of people coming into your office and saying this because it seems to be the first reaction of every victim to take blame on themselves.
2) IT IS OK TO BLAME — why does blame always get a bum rap? So many therapists and professionals and, in the case of my co-dependent mother and primary caregiver and surrogate spouse for years since my father emotionally abandoned her and she said so many times that she “lived vicariously through me…”, told me that blame is only fixing the cause of the problem on someone else which you cannot do … WELL HORSE FEATHERS!!! It needs to be fixed elsewhere for healing to happen… and in the case of a sociopath or psychopath or abuser or any other other things my father was, he was indeed the one to blame and there was no understanding him and no rationalization or logic for it so don’t try — JUST BLAME AND RUN…. and try to learn to find a substitute parent/partner for the one(s) that are the sociopath and the enabler just like people do in divorce — only with a child you cannot divorce your parents — mostly because you are dependent on them for money and education on life…. but I swear there needs to be a school family psychological appraisal for parenthood to screen out the unfit parents who are simply covering up each other’s faults…
3) SOMEWHERE THERE NEEDS TO BE A DEFINITION OF WHAT IS A NORMAL FAMILY AND A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP THAT IS SHOWN TO KIDS GROWING UP AND USED BY THERAPISTS AS A BASIS FOR DISCUSSIONS WITH ADULT PATIENTS — Why? Well, TV and movies are known to be ficticious (look at cartoons…) so we as a society are taught that very young — meaning that what we see on the screen is OK to be different from what you see in your home and we accept that because we know that the writers are trying to be funny or entertaining or full of drama or whatever. Yes, we yearn for the loving close intimate relationships we see portrayed and think that we can find them ourselves but there are never any real steps shown or told on how to get there and what we need to be to be allowed to have those relationships — and the basis for being allowed to have that relationship is if you are a blank slate going into the relationship — as in no baggage — because the actors in the movie don’t have any baggage so they can just relate and accept and have a relationship but in reality we as people don’t ever simply appear on the scene without emotional baggage trailing along. If this baggage includes a personal history of some sort with a sociopath then we will never be able to simply accept any relationship offered because we will always question and not believe what is being offered — including true love. As an example, in the 1950’s the examples available were Ozzie and Harriet and Leave it to Beaver that showed family life as being a fairly one model acceptability but everyone believed that was reality for 90% of America or the ideal model of some sort. What do we have today? How do you know when your own living arrangement is not healthy versus simply a different life choice? So starting in school and at the therapists office for adults seeking help and maybe even on first dates for pete’s sake, have a questionaire about behavior — as in, Did your parents ever lie to you? Or belittle you? Or yell at you about the same subject? Do you have secrets tht you can’t talk about? did your patrents ever refuse to answer any questions or tell you something that you found out later wasn’t true? What is your definition of a great parent? Do yours fit that description? yadda yadda yadda — because a person who has a miserable relationship with their parents probably will make a lousy spouse until they figure out who is the wrong person — either they are wrong or their parents were wrong and my bet is that the ones who admit to having a rocky relationship with thier parents stand a better chance of fixing themselves than the parents who say they had an ideal relationship with their kids. And vice versa. Actually, I now have a rule as I’m sure this poster has that whatever someone tells me on a date, I WILL spot check in more than one way before I trust again. Call me paranoid but it sure beats being abused again.
4) MANDATORY SCHOOL PROGRAMS ARE GOOD SOCIETY SCREENS FOR UNFIT PARENTS — And this should be a way to screen for socially devient behaviors in the home like sociopathy, alchoholism, abuse of all kinds, all sorts of psychological maladaptations, and basically a societal benefit to see if everyone is happy and healthy. Kids are the most vulnerable and also, because of the mandatory education system in this country, an outstanding intervention point for a spot check on life stabilizing issues. Like sex education became mandatory in schools in the 1960’s only it keeps getting watered down by requirements for teaching total human health of the physical body without the involvement of the emotional impact because all these parents are upset about schools trying to change the parental personal teachings about the rightness and wrongness of premarital sex (although I believe this is a social maladaptation that is the parents problem and not the child’s). And in 99% of these objection cases the issue is religion which is by law not allowed in schools anymore so then the whole emotional side of things has to be avoided because it is too tied up in religion. Look — screw it — when it comes to separating church and state and avoiding school mentions of religion you are essentially separating the head from the heart and the physical from the emotional which is what has gotten us to this point of having a disconnected sick society to begin with — but no, I am not a religious nut either — religion can easily be abused just like anything else like drugs, sex, violance, money, control of others, emotional mindgames, etc. — Religion is by definition, a belief system though and emotions are the belief system of the human body so to ignore religious discussion is to ignore emotional discussion and belittle the entire emotional importance of a human being — and thus create more sociopaths out there…. how unhealthy!!!… Let kids hear all about religion in schools and money and drugs and abuse cases and everything else — why put something off limits and not celebrate the whole human experience of emotions, religion, sex, love, cultural beliefs, etc. Let them all accept it or reject it it on their own — as a parent you can’t keep them sheltered forever to believe or not believe as they see fit so let it be and just try talking to your kids about it when they get home — I personally think sex education, for example, should include everything and not just stripped down biological facts and certainly include emotional screening for early damage to emotional bonding, discussions and examples of good and bad pornography and other devient/different behaviors. The more comfortable kids are at discussing it the more chance there is that the abused or abnormally raised kids will be discovered and treated early in their trauma. (and yes as to pornography stated above, I think there is a good side of pornography if it shows caring and healthy sex between two people and even lots of play and experimentation in mutually consenting ways between adults as a means of teaching kids who are maladjusted by their parents’ views of sex going into adulthood — I’m not talking about gang bangs without hugs and kisses or without emotional involvement but healthy human bonding through sex in lots of different ways is a good kind of pornography that should be openly shown to children bordering on adulthood and discussed openly because they are GOING to experience it in some way in the next few years and hopefully they will not end up raped because they have no way of judging what is good and bad in sex… )
5) PARENTING CLASSES ARE WASTED ON ADULTS — GIVE THEM DIRECTLY TO KIDS INSTEAD WITH AN OPTION FOR PARENTS TO ATTEND — There should also be a class in childhood in school on social and life planning where there is a reality check on what messages they are getting at home. Empower kids dreams and desires for their life and direct them while they’re young and able to grab onto a life plan of their own. Kids do not know how to ASK for this so a scheduled full blown course is important for those who can’t ask or forget or don’t know how to ask because teachers get busy too — Not all parents do this so someone should make sure we don’t have a whole bunch of lost lives out there. So many parents rely on the schools to do the parenting that perhaps we ought to say, ok, fine, then we will do it this way and if you don’ t like it then go ahead and do it your way and we will see if your kids pass the screening test at the end of thier childhood — it won’ t be a tough test — just an interview and a plan to go forward and not just get kicked out on the street by the parents for society to deal with like some of the serial killers experienced. Without a plan every child will fail as an adult. Careers don’t just materialize if you have no goals or if your goals are simply to make money. Marriages that are broken at home between your parents and step parents become the role models for every child’s perception of a relationship and marriage and if it is broken or abusive children do not know that that is wrong — they just know that they don’t want one — ever — which means they are sentancing themselves to isolation and never getting better or having their own life. And oddly, no amount of visual proof that the broken model is not what reality is will ever convince these people that abuse or sociopathy is not the real picture because they are unable to see the difference — they assume that all is hidden behind closed doors just like the house they grew up in… so beware .. and if you’re a therapist, be even more aware of this in kids and of course in grown up kids who aren’t married.
Well, I am going to post this here and also on another sectionof this site where they have the question of “When Mom Or Her Partner is a Sociopath… ” since the rules seem to fit better there — but at least I posted something on the cross roads here of where everyone is reading so maybe you’ll all know that I’m here and reading you and appreciating your candor and fraternity… thanks.. glad to know I”m not the only one…
Starmist: Great post. If you ever want to discuss any of your issues individually, feel free to discuss with anyone on the blogg. Right now, it would take me hours to break down every point you detailed. You brought up some interesting views though on topics we’ve already discussed and I’m sure others on the blogg wouldn’t mind going deeper into said discussions. Just bring them up as you blog on.
Thanks for the read.
Off the top of my head, there is the perfect model of a family. It was the male as the positive polarity and the female as the negative polarity. Both polarities being equal. The wife brought into the marriage her strong polarity and the husband did the same with his polarity. Polarities meaning equals … but opposite. Not bad or good. Then the child comes into the marriage as a single ball floating between the female polarity and the male polarity. Both polarities being of equal strengths to sustain the ball floating in between.
Anyway … that was to represent the healthy family unit. Neither mother nor father destroying the child in the center of their world. Loving, kind … etc.
It also showed the dysfunctional dynamics … if the female polarity became stronger than the male how the ball that once floated dead center was pulled towards her polarity … and the effects it had on the male polarity … and vice versa.
I can’t remember where I read about this family unit, but I’m sure other bloggers will refresh my memory, if you haven’t read it for yourself.
Peace.
henry,
I just saw your response to my post. You have helped in answering some of the question. Your S sounds more similar to mine in that he initailly came accross as the strong silent type. It took a while before I saw the frustration he had when others were receiving attention or had more stuff than he (nicer house, hotter car). he also had a good job but his homes and investments were all given to him and he used all of that as part of his lure…… but he could never keep up the facade because his lies were pathalogical and he was verbally and emotionally abusive. He couldn’t keep up the country club demeanor that he wanted me to think he was.
The thing that is most difficult to comprehend is that I feel as though I was so duped by this guy who now appears to be hanging out with former criminals and people who are not employable, drunks and drug addict and acting like a typical redneck, living with unemployed felons in a $600,000 home. makes no sense……He just wants people to see him differently than he really is. But HOW, WHO, WHAT is he really???? I saw him as a professional, successful guy, who talked like he was respectful and had integrity, but mostly he was the person he said he despised. He talked about married men who go on golf trips and cheat on their wives while they are away……HE DID THAT. He hated people who lied to make themselves seem important. HE DID THAT. He despised parents who involved their children in divorce and manipulated them. HE DID THAT. He said men who were not repspectful of women and who abused children should be shot. HE DID THAT TOO.
After all I have now learned, I don’t think I realized how potentially dangerous he was. He said he had killed people on behalf of the US Gov’t and who knows? Maybe he had potential to kill someone. Maybe he already has. He seemed very charming and was romantic. If you met him today you would probably think he is the nicest guy. He seemed protective and jealous. But it wasn;t any of those things. He reacted out of fear of losing me and his inability to control me. he was intimidating and impulsive and abusive. I realize that now. The nut i dated also had a mysterious scar all the way down his arm around the elbow. First he said he got it on a military mission. Then he told me he had an accident working on a printing press. Who knows? All I know now is that I dated a ghost, a non-existing figment of my own imagination…… and then it became a nightmare of lies and bad behavior….Do we really need to know more than that?
keeping_faith: He sounds like all our EXs who are the TAKERS of the world:
The list of what they are all about comes from the following site:
http://www.abusefacts.com/articles/Givers-Takers.php
Why should I help?
Ask “I wonder what they want?”
Ask, “What’s in it for me?”
Controlling
Finds power and peace in externals and things
Must be “lords”
Appears “In control”
Easily overwhelmed
“Love” conditionally
Low capacity for pain
Whiners
Braggarts
There’s “always something…” to worry about
“Squeaky Clean”
Leave damage behind them
Collectors
What’s in it for me?
Invest in selves
In need of virtually unlimited attention and support
Dependent
Time, schedules closely monitored
“Too busy”
Tit-for-tat
Pre-occupied with facade of “gratitude”
Change people’s lives for their own ends
Committed to self
Undermine
Drain energies
Seek personal comfort
Judgmentally critical
Do for themselves only what others won’t do for them
Manipulative
Controlling
Cleverly hidden agenda
Distrust any and all leaders
Help given until angered
Suspicious, untrusting
Perfectionistic and controlling
Offensive/Attacking
Fear of pain and suffering
Needy talkers
Live by schedules
Share discomfort, fear
Legalistic
Resist spiritual transformation
Worships God according to their own set procedure, schedules, and manner
Live, fight and die by “principles” and “rights”
Will stop at nothing to get their way
Focus on conforming others to themselves
Concerned with the urgent
Make others pay the price for their desires, needs, wants
Impermeable, rigid boundaries
Whiners
Reactive
“Humbly” seek “deserved” attention, affection, reward and recognition for efforts
Refuse to submit to demeaning tasks below their dignity
Focused on titles, position
Always must make a point and be heard no matter what the cost
Cause much pain
Impatient
Overly polite, mannerly
Cause helpers hurt
Don’t talk, trust or feel
Mercilessly project responsibility and blame on others
Victims
God is Aladdin’s Lamp
Fantasy-driven “If only…”terialistic
Materialistic
My things are important
Externally driven
Status conscious
Territorial
Hyper-conscious and hyper-sensitive to appearance
Draw attention to themselves by things (jewelry, cars, homes, et al)
Pre-occupied with comparing others’ wealth, benefits, possessions to their own
Covetous
Savers
“Squirrel” things
Gossip, innuendo, behind the back conversations are characteristic
Keep secrets
Gifts have strings attached
Relationship is conditional
Don’t want to get involved
Aloof
“See ya!”
Always expects “something for nothing”
Avoid embarrassment and risk for others
“Stuck”
Restricts others growth
Condemns, punishes mistakes
Appreciate being asked and needed
“Take care of me”
Insensitive to other’s pain, needs
Resists reciprocation of support, sacrifice
Seeks revenge
Helpless: “I can’t do it by myself!”
Just “too busy”
Tendency toward overwhelm
“Take it and run”
“Make me feel good!” (food, money, attention, sex, religion, et al)
Starts fights and perpetuates unrest but longs for “peace”
Never content, but unwilling to seek growth opportunities
Past-And-Immediate-Present Oriented
Words and promises can’t be trusted
“Intends” to keep promises
Indirect
Demanding
Controlling
Call for “Teamwork” only for their benefit
Immature
Impatient
Selfish
“Faith” is a shallow external facade
Unapproachabl
High/unrealistic expectations of others to do things the right (i.e. “their”) way
Fear-driven
If you can’t control it, kill it!
What will be will be (fatalistic)
Law-Driven
I hope you check out that site just to see all of us are opposite of them … the GIVERS of the world.
There are many reasons why we are the way we are and they are the way they are.
I, for one, am very grateful I am not like them … AT ALL!
Peace.