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By September 15, 2008 380 Comments Read More →

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: The Biggest Lie

By James

A few days ago while watching television with my oldest son, he turned to me and said, “You know, Dad, what biggest lie she ever told us was?”

I said, “No, son, I don’t.”

“When she told us nothing was going to change, and how much everything has changed.”

“Guess so, Son. Maybe that was the biggest lie she ever told us.”

I remember that day so well, as if it only happened yesterday. It was the evening of May 22, 2006, between the hours of 7 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. The cold months were ending and summer would soon be here, only this summer would be much more different than my children and I could ever imagine. I just finished with the washing, trying to help out more around the house, after my ex and I had a big fight on Mother’s Day, when she decided not to come home, after telling me about her going to a hair demonstration with her sister and mother. I know now that was a lie, and that she left the state and went to spend the night with the person whom she left her children for. In fact, I was even at this time still trying to work on our relationship, again and again, trying to satisfy her by doing whatever it took to somehow make this relationship work. To somehow save our relationship and save my family. After finishing the washing, my ex out of the blue informed me that she had something to tell me and she believed that I wouldn’t like it, as stated by her own words.

I looked at her and, without her saying one word, I replied, “You met someone and you are leaving us?”

She only shook her head yes to reply.

“Do you love him?” I asked. And she only shook her head yes to reply.

For some reason after she informed me of this, the time she didn’t return home on Mother’s Day came flooding back to me. Her telling me a few days before how her mother and sister wanted her to go with them to some kind of hair event. I remembered calling her cell phone late that evening, the day before Mother’s Day, and asking when she was coming home, and her telling me that she was going to spend the night at her mother’s home and then return home on Mother’s Day. I remembered asking her what time on Sunday would she be getting home, and she informed me that it would be late. I reminded her that it was Mother’s Day, and I wanted to spend some of the day as a family with her and the boys. She told me that she would return home early, and this too was a lie. In fact, she didn’t return home on Mother’s Day until very late that evening.

After telling me about leaving us, and how she would move in and live with her parents (that too was a lie), she told me that she would leave in a week. Now, dear readers, please understand what kind of emotional state I was in, trying hard to deal with this. I told her NO! If she wanted to go she would have to leave tonight, believing this was best for the children, her and myself. I demanded that she get what property she needed and leave as soon as possible. Soon both children were alerted because once again we were fighting. They asked me what was wrong and I informed both children that their mother was leaving us for another man and would be living with her parents. My oldest was 15 at the time and glad that she was leaving, in fact he told me, “Dad, I am glad she is leaving!” Still my other child, 12 years of age, was in tears. My heart was torn…

For some reason my 12-year-old wanted to know the name of the person she was leaving us for. He begged her and I told her to just TELL HIM! The name she gave him was also a lie, which we didn’t learn until a few weeks after she left. But you see, dear readers, that still wasn’t the biggest lie. I also remember when she told us the she was willing to stay for one week before leaving, and my youngest son begging me to let her. Where was she standing while my 12-year-old was begging and crying out to me? She was standing right behind him! Looking at me, while my youngest was begging me, with a slight grin on her face! I remember that grin so well because I saw it many times before on her! She would smile like that when she knew she had me over a barrel, but this time it didn’t work! I replied to him, “No Son, I believe it would be best for her to leave tonight.”

I remember her telling me she wouldn’t leave the house until she used our house phone (I never really knew who she called) to call her mother to tell her she was coming over. So I told her to use her cell phone. She replied that she didn’t have any minute left on the cell to use. This too was a lie, because a couple days later my oldest told me he remembered seeing her add minutes to her cell that day. But still this wasn’t the biggest lie.

Then at one point during this nightmare, she told both the boys, “Nothing was going to change, only your dad and me won’t be living together anymore.”

I, of course, yelled back at her, “THAT IS A LIE AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE!” As I told her this, I was looking straight in her face, and this is what I saw: Nothing!

Dear readers, please allow to me explain. I saw this plain, emotionally detached look on her face many times before, but for some reason, maybe because this would be the last time I would see “the look,” it took a different shape and a new meaning for me.

What I witnessed were two children in emotional turmoil. Me being torn between wanting her to leave and still wanting her to stay. The oldest yelling at me to let her go, “Dad, just let her GO!” He had enough of her and her BS. The other child crying, begging her not to leave and begging me to let her stay for the week she requested! I, too, was torn, but knew the best thing at this moment was to get her out as quickly as possible, believing her lies about living with her parents. I witnessed three people in anguish. But in her blank expression I saw absolutely nothing! No emotions, no feeling! No empathy or compassion for her own children. No tears from her! No regrets from her! I witnessed from her not one single emotional expression, other then that grin, when she was standing behind my youngest son who was begging me to let her stay for one week! I saw nothing in those eyes!

At the time I didn’t know what a sociopath was. Never knew anything about people that suffer from personality disorders. Narcissistic behavior was just a word I heard from a movie I watched. A borderline personality disorder? What was that? I knew nothing about any of these terms. So why, when I saw her expression during this time did it chill me to the bone and throw me for an emotional loop I can never explain? Out of all the fights we had during our 17 years together, how does this one stand out so clear in my mind? The reason I believe, dear readers, is because I looked into the eyes of a sociopath and saw the deep abyss of someone who could tell her own children the biggest lie, and not even blink. I saw in those eyes nothing, empty of any emotional connection between her children and herself. I SAW NOTHING! I SAW THE EYES OF A SOCIOPATH FOR THE FIRST TIME, BUT THIS TIME I REALLY TRULY SAW IT AND REMEMBER IT! EVEN TO THIS DAY!


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380 Comments on "LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: The Biggest Lie"

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Its taken me three P relationships to get this stuff figured out
My married X used everything that was important to me, to use or take away from me ,at the end including manipulating my children from me ,painted me as the bad one and the one spliting up the family…..he exhasted me …then I met this other man it ws just dinner and sex dinner and sex ….untill I called it there was no emotion no togetherness he was just to cold……then to ice the cake …I met prince charming it was like a fairy tale ….floweres ,trips, bling bling ,lies and cheating wheel barrows full of broken promies …roller coaster ride of your life ….untill the dicard and boy did i get tossed in the dumpster…I think in all my ups and downs of life I think that this if the toughest thing that I have ever had to work threw , its hard to accept people like this, when your relationships are suppose to have meaning when to these people they mean nothing,yes I’v seen the eyes of a sociopath , there empty and cold …….I can’t do another relationship like this I just hope that there is someone warm and caring out there for me someday….. untill then I go it alone with my head held high……….

Dear Taken: I know what you are saying. The worst for me was having a suit against my anti-social bosses. It was a free for all to degrade me, harass me, torment me … insult me in any manner possible. Mental torment from the summer of 98 until 2004. Every ounce of sleaze that they had stored up inside them came pouring out and because you are in their space you end up absorbing this disgusting slime of their’s through every pour of your body. I know this sounds weird, but it’s true. They didn’t have their smiley faces on for me (aka masks) … they allowed me to see them at their worst … and their worst is what I saw, each and every day for 6 years. No matter how low you thought they went today, they’d surprise you with lower antics the following day, week. It was the most disgusting experience of my life. I had to go into trumped meetings that they treated me as the low life. I would be treated better if I were prostituting myself on some street corner. That’s how bad they treated me. To top it off, I already knew they were somewhat like this … I was a union stewart for years and represented people who ended up being basket cases by the time their hearings came on the calendars. They were well oiled machines. Yes, they were. With all that said, that’s why I’m telling you and everyone else on LF to focus on the positive. Focus on God’s virtues and bring those virtues into your life. The way “they” live and exist in the world does change your chemical makeup. What I learned seeing them at work first hand did change my mindset into a negative. In order to fight a tiger, you have to think like a tiger. Get it? I had to be ready for everything and anything they threw at me.

I gained weight due to fighting this suit. I’ve never had a weight problem in my life … and I gained about 30 lbs. I wasn’t eating different then before this suit, the knowledge of seeing what they were really all about changed the chemical makeup in my body.

I was always a happy person, no matter what day it was. Just naturally happy. Not silly happy, just a good outlook about life. Not overly optimistic, nor overtly pessimistic. Middle of the road content. During those time with the suit, I was serious all the time. At attention all the time, alert (I guess it was constant flight or fight mode). Coming home each night after work, collapsing, crying, depressed all the time. I read the Bible every day just to give me a pick me up and to remind me of who created me.

Then when the 2nd shoe fell on my head and I was forced to find out that my fiance was one of them (anti-social personality) … I just shook my head, and of course said “why me”. I went numb from the end of November, 2006 until late March, 2007. I could talk, I could hear, I functioned in every way … but I could not feel a thing emotionally. And I just said “I’m giving it up to you God”.

That’s it. No more. No more being forced to be in their darkness. And darkness they do live in. There’s no laughter, no humor (except insulting humor), no tears, no emotions. Period. Everything with them is an illusion.

Everyone thinks I’m a Jesus Freak or something. I’m not. I’m just like you. Attended church with my family, was a regular person growing up. Had my friends, enjoyed my childhood, teenage years … young adult, working etc.

Then them. The horror of them.

Peace.

James – I hope your children heal from this. They have a very loving father too make sure they get help. And about that “LOOK” that sociopaths have. Yes I have seen it in my mother’s eye’s, my (X’S) eyes. We get used to looking in their eye’s, looking for concern, compassion, happiness we just keep lookin and never see it, but then there is that look that we get and never forget, the one that scare’s you to death and you ask yourself – what is this? who is this? and we realize we are lucky to be alive……As my phychiatrist said – they can just as easily kill you as look at you…..

Yes, when my friend (and former professor) called me in the winter of 2007 and told me that rumor was my EX married the woman he met off the Net … was going down to Texas pretending to get his phony company off the ground and she was just a platonic business partner (LOL at me) … the first thing that came to mind was “does he have a huge insurance policy on her”? Da ya think. Just as my oldest sister said to me Christmas of 2006 … Thank God we aren’t looking for you in little pieces in some lot in another state. My heart stopped when she said this … I never thought of that. Good thing I’m a giver and just gave as he asked … it could have been a different story you were reading … that of my obit.

Peace.

Strange but if I close my eyes sometimes I still can see that “look” and still it chill me to the bone today. The look compared to all her abuse was the worst because it show me just how empty and shallow these people can be. The look is physical proof and when one sees it and then acknowledges it, there is no denying its existence. Maybe that is what scares me so much….

James and Starlight: My perspective about how and why they are the way they are is as follows:

What he is, is a perfectionist (as most of them are) is the divide and conquer over all “normal” people of the world. They play this one for what they can get and they play the other for what they can get. Never underestimate how they will manipulate people, cause that is what they do the best … manipulate any how, any where, any one.

I believe they start this in childhood. Especially when there is younger siblings in their lives. They perfect the manipulation techniques back in childhood … abusing and lying to manipulate little brother, little sis … and smiling to their parents or caretakers … playing the angel up to the adults and devil to their sibs. This is when they go from being “humble, believing in our creator” to living in their EGOs (believing in themselves … they are their little gods). From tormenting the family unit (yes, the Eddie Haskel’s of the world … yes Mrs. Cleaver, yes Mr. Cleaver … kiss, kiss, kiss to get what they want). What started off as innocent manipulations of their younger siblings … and if they are OCs (ONLY CHILDREN) they go out of the home and torment the kid next door. It starts off innocent and then builds … bigger and better as they perfect their manipulation techniques. What kid wouldn’t love to do this? ABSOLUTE POWER. Get what they want, when they want, any time they want? That’s why … they sold themselves to the devil at such an early age (going from a mindset of being humble which allows you to listen and focus on righteousness to living in their egos ” no rules, no regulations, just anything your mind tell you, you can do, you can). What young kid knows anything about life at that tender age? Think about it. You don’t look at the future at that age. You have no clue your ego and it’s imagination is taking you down the wrong path in life. You get away with whatever you want, since you were a kid … as you get older, you refine your techniques … you blend in with everyone … playing who you can and tormenting the ones you don’t care about … no one is the wiser … the kid at school complaining about you to the teachers and other kids is just labeled “a whiner, a wimp, a jealous kid” … and no pays attention to what this little monster is doing or how this little monster is creating his own selfish world, own selfish reality. So, they get away with their evil in their family, at school … now they are getting older, graduate … stroke all their teachers for the “A”s or not, “B”s or “C”s, but the teachers all love them … that troubled kid … he’ll/shell out grow it … she/he just has to grow up ” it’s just being a kid and he’ll/she’ll out grow this phase. The teachers pass them to the next grade … and no one takes the time to tell him “NO”, you don’t do this because most adults aren’t privy to it and even if they see it, they chalk it up to their imagination is getting carried away with them ” too many students, they’re over tired today, didn’t see what they saw? Everyone passes the buck with the likes of them, not knowing what they really are (most people believe others to be good at heart). And if the teacher does make a point to report the kid ” they’re viewing themselves as the victim, being beaten up by the rules and regulations of society.

So, they now are graduating ” going on into the work world … they are jealous of everyone and anyone that is a threat to them in their career. They sabotage all the co-workers that are really working. They team up with others that they know are like themselves. They get away with systematically tackling those that are in their way ”“ whatever that “way” is. They smile and con management. They will sleep or gossip with the bosses and sabotage the credibility of their co-workers. They jump over or on others to get promotions, titles, paychecks. Oops got to get rid of this boss and that boss that could be a problem in the future … no problem …next.

And now it’s time for us to meet them. They come into our lives, smile to our faces, act lovingly, (come to the web said the spider to the fly). Then they do the damage that they do. They believe in a false god. themselves. Everyone is there’s for the taken, whatever they want to take. When they get caught stepping over the line of the law (and they are very careful not to do this, but, sometimes it does happen … their own ego gets the better of them, believing they are omnipotent), they are dragged into court … incarcerated … and they look at the rest of us like we are crazy, or jealous of them. Looking down so smugly at us. NEVER LISTENING TO THE CHARGES OR UNDERSTANDING THE CHARGES ” In their minds, they are outraged and claim that they are being unjustly incarcerated … it’s a conspiracy against them … we are all jealous of them, them, them. NO clue whatsoever to the depth of the damage they’ve done. Hey, they got away with their shenanigans since they were kids … no one stopped them at that time … why and what is so different now? And they do NOT understand us at all. They think they are better than we, and idiots like us shouldn’t have the right to throw them behind bars.

I do not want to punish them while incarcerated. I want them to slow down, let them be silent from their negative thoughts for a few years ” work with counselors to ensure they comprehend what it is like thinking positive, peaceful thoughts ” to become humble again ” if they can, and be at peace.

That’s how I see them. Still children (spiritually stunted from an early age back to their childhoods) living in their big egos, saying what they want, doing what they want, getting what they want, when they want, any time they want from any one they want. Pretending (acting for the nomination of the Oscars) of being the chronological age of an adult. Skimming the surface of life. Never learning wisdom. Not slowing down long enough to delve into the depth of the emotional waters. No time for emotions ” gotta go ” gotta live ” gotta get going ” to where? Good question. Next time you meet one of “them”, ask “them” the question. See if you get an honest answer. I know you’ll get an answer ” and we’ve all gotten answers from them, but lies, not truth.

Final thought. If I think positively and become a productive citizen in our society, feeling comfortable and good about what I do as an adult functioning in our society” then the same must be true of “them” appreciating and being comfortable with negative thoughts and actions in our society. They must be comfortable with themselves acting and thinking counter clockwise from the rest of society, due to greed and selfishness. When doing good feels comfortable with us, is it the same with them?. Does thinking and doing evil feel comfortable with them? Has it become as natural for them to be the way they are as it is for us to be the way we are? If so, then it’s a learned and hence, conditioned behavior that they did to themselves, since childhood ” living and thinking the way they do ” and no one being astute enough to pick up on it ” get them reconditioned to being productive instead of allowing them to condition themselves to be counterproductive.

Maybe, just maybe, conditioning themselves since childhood along with a physical mental health problem is their problem. I don’t know.

Peace.

henry

I wish I could tell you just how happy my children are today. Damn show I could show you! Children are so great! The resiliency of children never ceases to astonish me!! Yes, they are doing just fine and in fact much much better then before. But then we know, why don’t we?

Sorry Henry.. “Damn wish I could show you”.. Sorry for the typo…LOL

Wini

“Maybe, just maybe, conditioning themselves since childhood along with a physical mental health problem is their problem. I don’t know.”

Same here, I really don’t know all that it takes to formulate a P or S? Which is why I come back to LoveFraud time and time again. Always looking for answers and listening to each other about what happen to them and how they deal with it. Maybe that is why we all come here? To listen and learn…

PS: You do bring up some very interesting line of reasoning..

James: All I know is that I want to live in peace. I want to be happy and have harmony in my life. I want to be creative and productive and NOT harm others just because I exist and am taking up oxygen in this world. I want my life back (which I’ve done, don’t get me wrong … I’ve been going through this longer than most bloggers on this site, worked most of it (the evil) out already). That’s why I know following God and how God wants us to live and respect others is the way to go. God is the way.

Peace.

James, I’m so sorry that your children had to go through this ordeal but am glad to hear how well they are now doing. Unfortunately, my grown son was witness to the torment that my ex S put me through. He is my son from a previous marriage.

My ex made his sudden announcement that he was unhappy and wanted to leave–felt he needed to prove to himself that he could “be on his own” as he had never even “paid his own rent”. It was at that very moment that for the first time, I saw that nothingness you speak of in his eyes. His entire facial expression changed. My gut told me that this was NOT the reason behind his leaving–why would he start wanting to assume responsibility at nearly 40 years old? Didn’t make sense. I asked him over and over if there was another woman and he denied it repeatedly. I begged him to stay and all I got was screamed at that he “had to leave” and those piercing cold expressionless looks. He stayed 3 weeks after telling me that he wanted to leave. I will NEVER forget those 3 weeks of his going back and forth…telling me that he loved me and wanted to stay…but with no emotion behind it and then screaming at me that he had to leave. Then, telling me how much he loved me and wanting to have sex with me. I attempted to fill his every need as I was trying to save my marriage. As soon as the sex was over, he’d turn on me and I’d stare with disbelief at his behavior into those black empty holes that I once saw as twinkly blue eyes. It was a living nightmare! Then, I found out that there was indeed another woman and made him leave immediately!

I kept asking myself how on earth a man could treat me, his wife, the woman who had actually saved his own life when he was once very ill, as well as the person who had supported him financially and bought him everything from new drumsets to customized pick up trucks, and also the woman he had NEVER even had so much as a disagreement with–in such a cold and indifferent manner!!!! As soon as he told me that he wanted to leave, his entire personality changed! He was happy, carefree and even dragged me along when he went to the places where his new GF and her husband would be!!! I had NO idea what was going on at the time. I guess he used me for his “cover” when he was around her husband. Once during those three weeks, he even invited them over to our (MY) house for drinks. Thank God, they declined! I’m sure they wouldn’t have been able to have hidden their interest in each other and a killing might have taken place right there at my house! In my opinion, that was deceit at the highest level.

These people are evil and don’t even deserve to be a part of society!

Is anyone watching Oprah’s show with the author thinking he knows why men cheat? I hope she’s going to let LF bloggers have their say. We can teach him a thing or two … or is he just a con wanted all these women not to look and see what they are really living with. Giving them false hopes that these men are insecure and don’t express themselves. Oh, what a tangle web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Peace everyone … please stay tuned to that guy hawking his books to convince everyone that they are not seeing what they should see. Me thinks he’s a con artist, or at least, very naive.

James, I have two children, also – 11 and 13. My 13 year old son had headaches regularly for several years. His father left nearly a year ago, and he has had only one headache since. Both my children have told me, we never knew dad anyways, so we don’t miss him. I have thought perhaps they are trying to make themselves feel better by thinking these things. But I know now that children are very perceptive and also very resilient. They saw things in their father that I either didn’t see or chose to ignore.

That blank stare of nothingness… I know it well. I had seen it for years, but just thought he must be tired from all the work and all the travel. Must be stress I convinced myself. Looking back, I must have been crazy – the man never stressed about anything, EVER. Everything was always “great” in his eyes – never a complaint, never a worry. I would make a meal that was not all that great, he would say “you are the best cook”, when I knew I was not a good cook. We would get ready to go out, he would tell me how great I looked. My son recently told me that “Dad always told you you looked good, even when he didn’t look at you”. He did?? Yes, he did. That’s because I never existed to him.

He can tell the kids he misses them, and the next week he is not able to see him on his scheduled days because he is in Europe with his latest victim.

When I speak with him now, I can feel myself getting sucked into his delusional world. I can hear how he is able to convince all those around him that he is a great guy. It frightens me now. I will not ever understand how a sociopath is able to use their charm so wisely. It is a skill that they master. It’s not anything a “normal”, non-disordered person could do or even learn to do.

I know that our children are so much better off without these disordered parents in their lives. My kids are happier now than they ever have been. That is the resiliency of kids.

But me… I still struggle. I’m still trying to pick up the pieces. I go forwards and backwards in my recovery. I’ve asked him “how could someone do this to another human being and just not care?” I get the blank stare. “Of course I feel remorse”, he says, without even the slightest hint of emotion behind the words.

Once a sociopath has had you in their grip, it is so hard to break free. I know we’re all working at it. So glad I can read everyone’s story on LF. It helps to know you’re not alone.

Ah, the look. The look.

Here’s a strange story about “the look.” As I have posted before (I think), I first experienced that glittery, malice-filled beam of sheer hatred from the former “love of my life” about a week after I threw him out, when we met at a local business office to settle some of our affairs. I was struck weak-kneed by the intensity of his hatred, but I managed to get through the encounter with only a bit of shaking and a few quavers in my voice. He was furious to be kicked out.

I got that look again at another meeting a couple of weeks later, when we sat together in my vehicle outside his favorite morning coffee shop, after I had found him living with a girlfriend about 1/3 his age. He was furious to be found out.

After that, in the process of our split, he changed his storyline. At first, it was all hatred and I was cast as the “bitter, scorned woman,” jealous because I had been replaced by a younger woman. For some reason known only to him, he began to claim his girlfriend was only a platonic roommate to all who would listen, and I was no longer “scorned” but just “crazy.”

Then began the two-years of utter insanity as he tried to get his old life back through one lie after another, but never leaving the household with the girlfriend (and then a second girlfriend later on)! This is neither here nor there, but once he changed his storyline, I no longer saw “the look” on him. It was nothing but the “pity me” face after that.

Now for the strange part: as part of getting him out of my life, I right away took down all the photos of him in the house and put them away. Then I began a top-to-bottom cleaning of my house. Well, when I got back around to the closets a few months later, and got to the photos again, I saw something I had never seen before. In EVERY ONE of our posed, studio family portraits, EVERY ONE, there he stood with that cold, dead psychopath stare on his face.

In all the years we had been together, in all the thousands of times I had glanced at the photos, I never saw it. I knew he had “trouble” taking pictures, and I’d tease him and ask him why he always looked so “serious,” but I never really saw what he was really conveying. It was almost as if he knew I’d someday look back on all those photos through different eyes, and he wanted me to see the monster within when I did. Well, I saw it all right.

I’ve never been one for destroying photos, but these might go in the big bonfire I plan for the day I change my name to one of my own choosing, the day I finally get his hateful, disgusting mark off of me.

Tood: Photos do speak a thousands words. It’s amazing when I look at photos of newlyweds … one beaming, the other showing that no look on their face, neither here nor there look. Or better still, really looking at a couple supposedly in love … as the partner who can’t love (head and body leans away from the partner, as the one who can love is leaning in, head bent towards the partner. Let’s not dissect the family portraits … majority of the family’s heads leaning in towards each other … and the one who’s not?????

That’s the weird thing.. when I first started dating my ex-bf he was a bit detached.. but he became more and more attached to me, touching me, looking in my eyes with a completely gaga look. His friends were astounded and said they had never seen him in love nor ever thought they would. I have never been in love before either.. this one is not a total S/P but more of an N. And silly as it sounds now, whenever I look back.. I remember that transformation.. that guy fell for me just as much as I fell for him.

But I think these people learn early on that they are different.. that their feelings do not work in the context of an emotional world. They make their unhealthy little systems to deal with their lives, and they stick to them religiously.

I went through some of this myself when I was younger. I was very traumatized as a kid and by my twenties had lost most of my emotions. Certainly I never bonded properly with my first baby. I remember looking around the nursery and copying what the other mothers did, because I felt nothing. But eventually I built a great relationship with my daughter, and for many years now she has been my best friend.

I wonder.. do sociopaths have to go through their entire lives as emotional cripples.. always looking around to see what reactions they should be having?

I know the look very well James…..and like you, I’ll never forget it….While your guts are laying on the floor, and you are overwelmed by the devastation, they look at you without blinking, almost with a puzzled look on their face. Like some unfeeling robot in some science fiction movie from the 50’s…. When mine was walking out the door for the last time, I told her that she was the most selfish person I had ever met.. she turned toward me and smirked and nodded her head in agreement… a second later she was gone.

tood; your post took my breath away. my jaw is on the freakin’ floor. “malice filled beam of sheer hatred” i got that today during the first conversation with my ex-p/s/n in 5 weeks. he needed some computer files i didn’t have. he unleashed a tirade that sounded like he was spitting nails at me. i was dumbfounded and my heart broke all over again. remind me why they hate us so much even though we didn’t do anything!?!?!?!?!?!
southernman429: woah! the thought of a woman being like that sickens me more than a man (for some strange, very uncharacteristically unfeminist reason). what a visual that was. i’m so sorry.

Lostingrief………

As all of us here do… I have a whole mental photo album of visuals that range from the happiest memory.. to the most gut wrenching….the bad seems to cloud over anything that was good….with all of them, my heart has died a thousand deaths……but I am lucky.. unlike James and others here, I did not marry her, have children with her, own a home with her, or own a business with her, or be with her for many years…..One does not have to look very far to find someone who has suffered more then one’s self…..I was very lucky indeed. Even though I have always known that I escaped a lot more pain then I could have had with her, I have always felt on some level that I was the one who lost out.. I was the loser, even though she is the real loser…I asked someone recently who knew her and us as a couple and was also duped by her, why I still felt like I lost something that should/could have been so great….. They told me “Because she wasn’t what she appeared to be”…..Now… we all know that is the basis of our pain with P’s and socio’s.. and this website is based on that knowledge….I knew this all along…but, the reply made perfect sense… for something that has never made sense…I’ve read the books.. i’ve read the posts here.. I’ve been to the websites.. I’ve talked about this to my friends until I had no more friends….It took this right person telling me something I already knew, at the right time, for me to really get it. Thank you God!

Just another reminder to LF bloggers … their motives behind what they do/did to us, usually stems from GREED, the mother of all sins.

With the way our world is today, and the political correctness that was conveniently shoved down everyone’s throat to abide by, can’t call a spade a spade today … oh, noooooo it’s political incorrect. Give me a break with everyone’s bulls*@t forcing society as a whole to close our eyes … cover ups, smokescreens, brickwalls … so that no one figures out what they are all about … check out the vices in the Bible.

And vices … not God’s virtues are what they are all about.

Peace.

Oh, Just wanted you to know that Oprah announced today that there were many of her viewers that wanted their opinions heard and debated with the author of the book “why men cheat on their wives”.

Toodles. No flies on that woman, she gets it. LOL.

almost_free

“They saw things in their father that I either didn’t see or chose to ignore.”

How true! How very true! My oldest saw so many things about her that I too chose to ignore. My oldest son told me after she left that he was planning to leave when he turned 18. I can’t tell you just how much this upset me that if I did stay (I too was planning on leaving but was waiting until both boys were older and could give them to options of leaving with me) or allow her to stay I would have ended up losing my oldest son.

“My son recently told me that “Dad always told you you looked good, even when he didn’t look at you”. He did?? Yes, he did. That’s because I never existed to him.”

Also J (son) told me things about his mother that I knew nothing about insomuch as to how she would bash me almost daily to him. I then asked him why he never told me this about her and how she told him negative things about me. J reply? “Dad, after awhile I just tuned her out!”…..

J also told me after she left that “Dad you know she never cared about us and never once did anything for us”.

Also both children told me she didn’t deserve the title “mom” and they stopped calling her that. Today she is only refer by Name.

“how could someone do this to another human being and just not care?”

This is what scares me the most! How they can be so cold and detached with those they should love the most? This was the hardest lesson to learn and many times still find myself trying to comprehend it.

“I know that our children are so much better off without these disordered parents in their lives. My kids are happier now than they ever have been. That is the resiliency of kids.”

So true in fact my children help me to heal not the other way around. They were able to heal quicker then myself. Many times my children told me that I had to stop thinking and talking about her. Sometimes I would ask them “do you ever think about your mother?”.. I always get the same answer time and time again… NO!

PS: also readers, J was the one who inspirited me to write “The biggest lie”. God how I wish you could have seen that smile on his face! When I showed it to him today,

How right you all are! Yes I too have seen that “look” on the old photo I took of us together. In fact I found something very interesting is that the only time she “looked” happy was when she was pregnant. Well in one picture anyway. But still why would that be? Does anyone know? In all the other pictures she always had that “forced” smile or fake smile. But it is the eyes that tell the tale. How shallow and empty they appear.

southernman429

“they look at you without blinking, almost with a puzzled look on their face.”

Yes, saw the “puzzled look” many times before. It is like they don’t understand how we are feeling and are confused. God how I hated that look too. But still it’s the detached empty stare “look” that scares me the most. How in God’s name do you reason with someone that doesn’t even share your feeling? How does one explain what a broken heart feels like? How does one show them how much what they are doing is killing us inside? How? how?

Dear James and southernman429: We believed them because we loved them. They lied to us because they can’t love us, or anyone else.

Stop beating yourselves up over “them”. They are the LIE and they know they are living the LIE. Sad, sad, sad, oh so sad when first “they” learned how to deceive. GREED,, the mother of all sins.

Did either of you look at that site I posted about Givers and Takers in the world.

http://www.abusefacts.com/articles/Givers-Takers.php

Read what the church leaders know about what they call are the TROUBLE MAKERS in the world.

The truth of what they are all about will set you free and continue you on your healing to become stronger and better than you were before they ripped you to smitherines. Why do they do that to us? Jealousy, envy … GREED … they know we don’t have to do what they do to people. Stay on the righteous path in life. That’s how God wants us to live, not the man made illusions of what life is or should be.

Peace. Pray for your EXs. Pray that they get closer to God.

my ex told me yesterday that his life is ”great” now that he’s no longer with me. told me ”i NEVER thought of you as a lover!” funny, our relationship was very sexual (along with all his females on the side). it hurt bad. and this morning, i’m so depressed all over again.
i knew if i ever had to talk to him, he’d stab me in the heart again. what is it that makes them so good at it. he was so enraged toward me, even though i never did ONE thing to hurt him in all the years we were together. i just gave and gave and gave some more.
all over again…i don’t get it.

Dear lostingrief: He’s using child psychology 101 on you. The more he puts you down and tears you apart means the more he knows he blew it when he left you. He knows he can’t come back into your life … that’s why he makes sure you hurt for not making him come back. He’s not man enough to admit he blew it with you.

Peace to your sweet sweet soul. Stop listening to the idiot. He’s angry and wants you to hurt because of his own anger. He owns the way he thinks, not you.

Don’t do it. NO CONTACT remember? That’s why we all tell you no contact. What do you really expect him to grow up and tell the truth to you. Ahhhh, isn’t that the reason they are the way they are? Living a lie instead of living truth.

Keep focusing on the positives in life to build you up … not the negativity of the likes of him to tear you down.

Did you ever hear the saying “misery loves company”? They (our EXs) want everyone to be as miserable as them. They can change, they just have to admit that they need to change … and then just do it. They want miracles and of course are lazy … they wanted us to change them – presto – you are changed for the better. Doesn’t happen. There’s no short cuts in life, not even for them … they have to do the work to change.

Peace.

Sotherman429

Great post ….I’m feeling low to day and reading your post has made me feel not so alone today…I too have escaped a lot more pain then I could have had with him…my friends the ones I have left…LOL…told me that he did me a favour, when I was didcarded for the OW….I felt like I was the loser even though he is the loser…..and the basis of our pain …”He was’nt what he appeared to be” so true again thanks for the great post …you made my day….

I have realized that my ex S uses guilt to get what he wants, particularly regarding our children. As hard as it is, I try not to bite. He knows that they are my soft spot…

Why? Why? Why? Why did I pick up the phone when I knew it was him? He called me about our son who felt sick at school and asked me why did you tell the school to call me? I said that he was the father of this child. He said, Do you know what I am doing right now? I was thinking I really don’t care, Ass! Instead I said that I was working. He said one more thing to me and I just cut him off and hung up the phone. Really, NC is the best. I have been realing from this all day and feel physically and emotionally tired.

Why did he have to call me anyway?

Wini, I am not sure if I agree with your opinion that they can change. I read an analogy once that equated sociopathy to color blindness. It is something that you are born without and there is not cure or surgery or therapy that can get you to see colors; just like there is nothing you can do to develop a conscience.

-Ginger

Taken….

I’m glad my words made you feel not so alone today….the sad part is that what I feel I lost and what was so dear to me, was never real…. it’s still a hard concept to wrap my mind around considering all my interaction with her and the memories, especially the pleasant memories……….and then all the knowledge I have aquired since about sociopaths… it’s still hard….Consequently, the whole experience made me to doubt my own perceptions of the people I was with after that, wondering which part of them is real and which is going to screw with your head and heart. It has truly been a long road to healing, and I’m afraid it still isn’t complete. My self-esteem and self -worth were damaged quite extensively because of her, coupled with my lack of ability to provide a stable income when the economy started to drop a few years ago, then my conversion to Christ, which if you are to do it in the right manner is a extensive undertaking and life change…whew….no wonder I feel so tired.

Hello Southernman (R). I completely understand what you are saying. Even though they were so phony and we know and understand the concept, they somehow have a grip on us, which I just cannot fathom. If I knew the formula, I would share it and I have done a great deal of thinking about this. Please watch the video I quoted on the other thread Fred Durst’s Behind Blue Eyes – it shows so vivdly how they cloned us.

Beverly and all… I saw this and wanted to share with everyone….. It isn’t exactly about sociopaths.. but.. I think it rings true every bit as much as it did in 1968 when the speech was spoken. I know that it will speak to everyone’s heart…..

RFK Speaks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Vll-t0H6A

We should post a board just to compare sociopath photographs.
speaking for myself, the truth of the discovery { shall we call it THE GIFT, That this board has given}
has made me extremely aware of the pattern.
I’ve now since discovered, when you address a sociopath, and doubt EVERYTHING they say, right to their face.
They become utterly defenseless, also when you disprove a story or two, they quickly do leave you alone.

So if one NEEDS to deal with the sociopath, on a daily/weekly basis, Simply call them a liar and give them the same emptiness, they offer us, See if it works.

But the best technique is COMPLETE avoidance, and distant pity

Wini

“Did either of you look at that site I posted about Givers and Takers in the world.”

“http://www.abusefacts.com/articles/Givers-Takers.php”

In fact I did and what a great site she be!!!

Being a single working parent my time is limited at best but I can assure you I will be there many times.

Also I found this “bible online” site which is great as well. It faster then finding passages from my personal bible and can get biblical information quicker! Hey, what can I say. Always managing time and effort due to current situation.

“http://www.carm.org/bibleonline.htm”

schmooly: the last month of our relationship, before he told me he was cheating and had gotten his young hot gf prego, all i did was call him a liar to his face. he could have cared less as he just looked me right in the eyes and denied everything over and over again, telling me i was ‘stupid’ and ‘crazy.’
my being ‘on to him’ was his reason for finally walking away.

It is about putting love and respect and all the virtues back in place in your life. Not only to focus on these virtues in your minds, but to allow these virtues to be incorporated into your very soul. If a person focuses on the virtues in life, how our creator wants us to live, then life will/can be beautiful and we all will be able to experience life as God wants us to experience it. God made life simple, people make it difficult. Meaning, people who believe the voices in their heads (their own ego) and view life from their egos perspective, not staying focused on being humble, the way God wanted us to live.

Robert Kennedy knew the concept of how our creator wanted us to live, that’s why he was explaining it in human terms in his speech.

I know in todays day and age it has made it virtually impossible to stay humble. Today, being humble is such a dirty concept … oh, you believe in God, what a joke you are … your easy, next. You become an easy target for those who shoot from their hips, use and abuse you all because their egos are leading the way what they do and how they do injury to others to get over on us. For what? Where do they think they are going? And when they get to where ever they get to … are they satisfied? Did this full fill them? Make them whole? I think not … then their crazy way of viewing the world continues over and over again … to ad nauseum.

They won’t be happy, satisfied, full filled until they become humble and live life the way God intended us to live. Period. They just won’t relinquish the noise in their heads (their own egos) … always this battle going on with themselves that they should believe in their own mini god (their ego) and not the creator.

It’s a never ending cycle … over and over again, playing itself on the game board of life … throughout the centuries … the names of the players are different, the age of it happening is different … but it’s all the same. Believe in the creator and put your faith in him and be happy and content and enjoy your life (love and harmony) or believe in your self and stay miserable and bring misery into everyone else’s life (EVIL AND ALL THE VICES).

Peace.

James: I did write about you sending me to view the Kennedy speech. Profound. I didn’t address your name to it … it’s posted after your comment.

Peace.

LIG I think he’s just P.O.’d because you blew his cover and “ruined” his neat little lie-filled life. He is just trying to think up anything he knows will hurt you.. I mean why would he bring up anything about your love life in the first place.. he probably wants those papers cuz he’s afraid you’ll use them against him somehow.. dumbarse jerk.

My first husband STILL rants and raves about how I “ruined” his life.. how the heck I did that, I’ll never know.. I was a GOOD and faithful wife to him.

i hear ya, kat. mine even blamed me for him hating his wife! how did i do that? lol … if it weren’t so sick it would be funny.

Beverly, I kind of “ah ha’d” today on a couple of issues of how and why we accept their “stuff”—Dr. Eric Berne, who wrote the book, Games People Play, describes three “internal states”—sort of like Ego, Id an Super ego but not exactly—Dr. Berne calls them “Parent” Adult” and Child.

The Parent ego state consists of both the Nurturing and the critical “parental tapes” we recorded in childhood about how we should behave and are we or are we not a “good” boy/girl, it also dishes out the internal praise or guilt.

The Adult part of our minds is simply a computer that makes decisions. 2+2=4 out of “facts”—“if I go to the beach today I will get fired from my job” etc.

The child (internal child) is the part of us that has fun, loves, feels guilty, feels happy, feels sad, etc.

There is an internal interaction between these three ego states, and the parent can “scold” or punish the child or tell the child what a good/boy or girl you are for doing what they told you.

By switching between the various ego states the P can hook into our internal child as a “parental” figure, or he/she can be the “naughty” child and lyiing and covering up his “bad deeds” knowing that his own internal critical parent will “hit” him for doing these things, but not caring.

While I totally disagree with Wini, that the Ps can “change” or even want to change, and see them more as satanic than as stunted children, there is the “child” aspect to they want what they want and they want it now and they don’t give a rat’s behind if it kills you or not.

Just like a “naughty” child/bully on the play ground will pick at a weaker child and taunt them, embarass them, harass them, etc. “just for the fun of it” the Ps know where to poke the knife to get the most pain for their trouble from us.

They have figured out how to “come on” in the parental voice to acuse us of being “bad people” by doubting their word, challenging their authority etc.

Berne’s book is an interesting read and helps you be able to see when someone is coming on to you as a “critical parent” and not let them hook your “guilty child” ego state into defending itself.

Any time I am feeling guilty I ask myself “Why is my internal parent beating my internal child?” That immediately throws me out of the child state into the Adult state (which since the Adult doesn’t have “emotions” but is a calculator, makes me stop feeling guilty immediately. Try it sometime, it does work.

When you are feeling some unpleasant emotion, ask yourself “why is my internal child crying?” or “why is my chld feeling guilty?” Then you can figure out where you were hooked by the P (or someone else) into a “Game”—which always has a NEGATIVE PAY OFF…usually for both parties.

Games People Play was written 30+ yrs ago but still has some pretty good information that is easily understood and gives us some awareness when we are hooked into a game, and BOY O BOY DO THE P’S LOVE GAMES.

good post OX – So you are saying we kinda have a split personality? And when our child thought’s are in control we need to call our adult personality to kick our inner child in the butt?

Dear James,

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

I remember this “grin” you talk about. One of the things I think is so interesting about these people and us, as victims, is that we are so sensitive to cues and you saw one in your ex’s grin and blank expression.

The Bad Man had a look, a grin, I took early on as a sort of sheepish little boy expression. I rather liked it in the beginning. In time though, I came to realize that this look indicated that he had just latched onto something I said or did, quite innocently, that he would later emotionally beat me with. I hated that look and I even told him I knew when the sh*t was going to hit the fan from the expression.

There were many micro moments that tickled the pit of my stomach. I will not ignore those kinds of clues again.

Once we didn’t know about personality disorders but our bodies often knew we something was not right about the other person.

Thanks again for sharing. I can imagine I was in the room. I get the pain you all felt and the disturbing absense of feelings from the puppeteer… the Sociopath. Perhaps they love to see our emotions so raw because they just can’t get there themselves.

Aloha

alohatraveler

Thank you for your comments and may I say to all readers it is nice to know that I wasn’t the “crazy” one. The grin always left me wondering what she was thinking and I always felt uneasy after seeing it. It was like “okay, then? What is she up to now? But still the void of expression with the “look” was just plain scary and left me feeling kind of looking into the darkness and unable to see what was there waiting for me. Looking into eyes that didn’t reflect back. I have been thinking about that look and when I feel something like when my son tells me about a small cut he got. I can see empathy in my eyes like I too was cut. Like if someone tells you a sad story and your facial expression changes but so do the shape of your eyes. Very hard to put into words but I hope you understand.

Now we all know how they can mimic emotion and expression. So when we see one that is void of these expressions. Lord how it throw us into total confusion. And maybe even denial?

Dear Henry,

Well, so to speak “sort of”—it’s just like when you (your inner child) wants to say eat a WHOLE CHOCOLATE CAKE but your “Adult” knows that this is NOT a good thing, then it (the Inner Adult) says, “Nah, kid, you shouldn’t do that” and puts the cake away.

The Parent (internal) is made up of the stuff your parents taught you was good, bad, right, wrong, etc. when you were a REAL little kid and isn’t all bad, even some of the worst parents did teach us some good things–like brush your teeth before you go to bed, the fork goes on the left, take a bath every day—but they also gave us some “garbage in, garbage out” stuff—-“you’re dumb” or “You’ll never amount to anything” or “all girls are dumb” or “it’s okay to drink a lot of booze, just don’t let your wife find out”

Our internal Adult (our rational mind) can “weed out” some of the garbage by saying to itself “MY Parent said all girls are dumb, but I know some girls who are very smart, so maybe (internal) mom didn’t know what she was talking about, NOT all girls are dumb. Also your internal Adult can say “(M) was a P, he treated me badly, I’m not going to cry for him any more, he was NOT good for me.” (Internal Adult, rational mind, can protect your Internal Child by NOT ALLOWING you to pick up the phone and call him when the Internal Child is feeling down or sad.

Our Reasonable, rational, logical minds (Internal Adults) CAN if we will allow them, PROTECT US (our internal child that wants to be loved) from the predators that would prey on us.

Basicly that’s what it amounts to. Order the book, it is a small book and a quick read, but lots of good stuff. I read it years and years ago, and every now and then I pull it out and reread it, to reinforce the fact that I CAN let my Adult (internal) run my life while my Internal Child is feeling a bit “under the weather”—-lately, I’ve been letting my Child procrastinate on doing some things that my Adult knows it needs to do, soooooo, GET YER BUTT IN GEAR, LITTLE OXIE, and GET TO WORK ON THOSE THINGS.

One thing I would like to share is that after my ex left I was in complete chaos and totally a mess both emotionally and mentally.

So after awhile I went off to my local VA Clinic and had them do a complete physical checkup. Being afraid of STD’s and having experienced a critical Panic Attack. After my test were done.. Well nothing there. My doctor was concern for my emotional state and my weight loss, but assure me I was physically healthy.

So then off I go to my local mental health Clinic…

I ask them to test me for personality behavior problems and wonder if maybe I too suffer from some kind of personality disorder. All the material I was reading left me with more questions then answers about me. Just maybe I too was a NPD or BPD or whatever. I did inform my psychiatric therapist that I suffer from PTSD (Post-traumatic stress disorder) being told this as a child from my past therapy sessions which for me began at a very early age. Well my test gave back and still nothing there? Talk with my therapist concerning this matter. Still no real confirmation that this was my problem (PDI) concerning my current emotional instability.

I also thank God for my religious belief system that got me thru some very hard times emotionally. And that both the professional and spiritual association help me heal and learn what I was going thru…

So for all those present and not present. Thank you and I indeed own a debt of gratitude!!!

It’s such a shame that these people have forced us to doubt our own sanity. But why wouldn’t we? They are SO good at what they do! And, they never stop and have tactics under their belts that we never dreamed of!

My ex absolutely CAN’T ever be the BAD guy. His technique of maintaining this kept me uncertain about my sanity and the person he truely was for a good long time. For example:

Anyone that he talked to after he left me and who asked him what happened, he would quickly respond by saying that it was all his fault or that I deserved someone who would treat me better than he did. He would tell them just what a good person I was! Sounds so open, blameless and honest, doesn’t it? His continued “goodness” left me feeling as though somehow I had was doing something wrong–simply because I was the hurt and angry one! However, his response just did’t add up to his behavior. If he’d of been such an open and honest person, then there’s no possible way he could have spent MY money on sometimes as many as two strangers per day with whom he was having sexual encounters with during our entire 7 year marriage! He tells his new GF what a good person I am and therefore she feels that he is truely sorry that he could have treated such a good person SO badly. However, when I tried to get him to come collect his belongings….he told her that I was a monster! He wouldn’t come collect his things because he wanted her to believe that I was somehow dangerous in order to get her to buy him all NEW things and it worked. He used her own ignorance to his advantage. Everyone knows that the police will gladly escort you and stand by when you need to collect your belongings if you are afraid of being hurt! He knew he had absolutely NO reason to be afraid. So, how can I be SO good and SO bad at the same time?

These people are like a constant riddle! Never take what they say as what they REALLY mean. They force us to stay on our toes and read between the lines. However, I’ve noticed that one easy way to understand their language is to translate it into the exact opposite of what we hear from them. That’s usually what they are REALLY saying! LOL!

James I forgot to tell you.. that story is chilling, and so familiar, like a nightmare common to us all.

tami

“These people are like a constant riddle!”

So many times I heard people refer to them as a “walking contradiction“. They will even contradict themselves in the same sentence. Yet just another red flag to watch for with dealing with a sociopath. While some people will be told how good you “were” and then still others how bad you “are” would depend on whom that person is and what the sociopath hopes to gain by it. As always truth and consistencies in behavior is throw right out the window! They are indeed a “walking contradiction“!

kat_o_nine_tales says

Thank and yes it was a living nightmare at the time..

tami: It’s called “putting a spin” on anyone that should uncover his motives behind anything he does. Put you on guard, play games with your head, tell this story to that person, another story to another. Hey, if you all get together some day and match notes … you’ll see all the deception he did to everyone … and down the road he goes to a new city, new state, new country starting his MO all over again. To leave shattered lives in his wake … never leaving anyone whole or better than they were before he arrives. They are the hurricanes of the human species. Can’t answer a direct question except to tell you more lies, lies, lies. Why? So he can get what he wants, when he wants, whenever he wants. That’s why they don’t make sense to anyone, we didn’t know their motivation was GREED. Major sin, by the way.

Peace.

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