By James
A few days ago while watching television with my oldest son, he turned to me and said, “You know, Dad, what biggest lie she ever told us was?”
I said, “No, son, I don’t.”
“When she told us nothing was going to change, and how much everything has changed.”
“Guess so, Son. Maybe that was the biggest lie she ever told us.”
I remember that day so well, as if it only happened yesterday. It was the evening of May 22, 2006, between the hours of 7 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. The cold months were ending and summer would soon be here, only this summer would be much more different than my children and I could ever imagine. I just finished with the washing, trying to help out more around the house, after my ex and I had a big fight on Mother’s Day, when she decided not to come home, after telling me about her going to a hair demonstration with her sister and mother. I know now that was a lie, and that she left the state and went to spend the night with the person whom she left her children for. In fact, I was even at this time still trying to work on our relationship, again and again, trying to satisfy her by doing whatever it took to somehow make this relationship work. To somehow save our relationship and save my family. After finishing the washing, my ex out of the blue informed me that she had something to tell me and she believed that I wouldn’t like it, as stated by her own words.
I looked at her and, without her saying one word, I replied, “You met someone and you are leaving us?”
She only shook her head yes to reply.
“Do you love him?” I asked. And she only shook her head yes to reply.
For some reason after she informed me of this, the time she didn’t return home on Mother’s Day came flooding back to me. Her telling me a few days before how her mother and sister wanted her to go with them to some kind of hair event. I remembered calling her cell phone late that evening, the day before Mother’s Day, and asking when she was coming home, and her telling me that she was going to spend the night at her mother’s home and then return home on Mother’s Day. I remembered asking her what time on Sunday would she be getting home, and she informed me that it would be late. I reminded her that it was Mother’s Day, and I wanted to spend some of the day as a family with her and the boys. She told me that she would return home early, and this too was a lie. In fact, she didn’t return home on Mother’s Day until very late that evening.
After telling me about leaving us, and how she would move in and live with her parents (that too was a lie), she told me that she would leave in a week. Now, dear readers, please understand what kind of emotional state I was in, trying hard to deal with this. I told her NO! If she wanted to go she would have to leave tonight, believing this was best for the children, her and myself. I demanded that she get what property she needed and leave as soon as possible. Soon both children were alerted because once again we were fighting. They asked me what was wrong and I informed both children that their mother was leaving us for another man and would be living with her parents. My oldest was 15 at the time and glad that she was leaving, in fact he told me, “Dad, I am glad she is leaving!” Still my other child, 12 years of age, was in tears. My heart was torn…
For some reason my 12-year-old wanted to know the name of the person she was leaving us for. He begged her and I told her to just TELL HIM! The name she gave him was also a lie, which we didn’t learn until a few weeks after she left. But you see, dear readers, that still wasn’t the biggest lie. I also remember when she told us the she was willing to stay for one week before leaving, and my youngest son begging me to let her. Where was she standing while my 12-year-old was begging and crying out to me? She was standing right behind him! Looking at me, while my youngest was begging me, with a slight grin on her face! I remember that grin so well because I saw it many times before on her! She would smile like that when she knew she had me over a barrel, but this time it didn’t work! I replied to him, “No Son, I believe it would be best for her to leave tonight.”
I remember her telling me she wouldn’t leave the house until she used our house phone (I never really knew who she called) to call her mother to tell her she was coming over. So I told her to use her cell phone. She replied that she didn’t have any minute left on the cell to use. This too was a lie, because a couple days later my oldest told me he remembered seeing her add minutes to her cell that day. But still this wasn’t the biggest lie.
Then at one point during this nightmare, she told both the boys, “Nothing was going to change, only your dad and me won’t be living together anymore.”
I, of course, yelled back at her, “THAT IS A LIE AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE!” As I told her this, I was looking straight in her face, and this is what I saw: Nothing!
Dear readers, please allow to me explain. I saw this plain, emotionally detached look on her face many times before, but for some reason, maybe because this would be the last time I would see “the look,” it took a different shape and a new meaning for me.
What I witnessed were two children in emotional turmoil. Me being torn between wanting her to leave and still wanting her to stay. The oldest yelling at me to let her go, “Dad, just let her GO!” He had enough of her and her BS. The other child crying, begging her not to leave and begging me to let her stay for the week she requested! I, too, was torn, but knew the best thing at this moment was to get her out as quickly as possible, believing her lies about living with her parents. I witnessed three people in anguish. But in her blank expression I saw absolutely nothing! No emotions, no feeling! No empathy or compassion for her own children. No tears from her! No regrets from her! I witnessed from her not one single emotional expression, other then that grin, when she was standing behind my youngest son who was begging me to let her stay for one week! I saw nothing in those eyes!
At the time I didn’t know what a sociopath was. Never knew anything about people that suffer from personality disorders. Narcissistic behavior was just a word I heard from a movie I watched. A borderline personality disorder? What was that? I knew nothing about any of these terms. So why, when I saw her expression during this time did it chill me to the bone and throw me for an emotional loop I can never explain? Out of all the fights we had during our 17 years together, how does this one stand out so clear in my mind? The reason I believe, dear readers, is because I looked into the eyes of a sociopath and saw the deep abyss of someone who could tell her own children the biggest lie, and not even blink. I saw in those eyes nothing, empty of any emotional connection between her children and herself. I SAW NOTHING! I SAW THE EYES OF A SOCIOPATH FOR THE FIRST TIME, BUT THIS TIME I REALLY TRULY SAW IT AND REMEMBER IT! EVEN TO THIS DAY!
James,
Wouldn’t you agree too that if a personality disorder or sociopathy is truly a “moral insanity” that there may be no physical proof of anything? And based on the fact that they do have in common the fact that they are pathalogical liars, that it may be impossible to truly evaluate all commonalities or any scientific measurements around their disorder.
The XS told lies that range from silly and rediculously little and for no apparent reason to big lies that he could be arrested for and become a convicted felon. I suspect there may have been other criminal activity but I have no proof. Unfortunately sometimes the only justice for those of us who have been left to die and wounded is whatever is taken up through the law. The law doesn’t cover the kind of lying that causes people to want to hurt themselves to ease the pain of a sociopath. The law doesn’t get involved when children are left hurt unless there is evidence of physical abuse. it’s so hard and it hurts so much.
It has been a year and three months since I was with him and the “flashbacks” of post trauma and the nightmares still haunt me. And I am a very strong individual AND, he didn’t steal money or commit arson or do some of the things to me that others had done. My only true “justice” is that I have information through my own investigation, about his lies, his affairs and other moral insanity that most people he has hurt do not have or wish to even know.
I feel vengeful sometimes and I want to share that information with his family, but I DO have a conscience and I can’t do it at another person’s expense. I think my having this information is the thing that keeps him away from me. he knows I will divulge it if necessary. So knowledge and information are power in this case. If he stalks me or harasses me again I won’t hesitate to “share”.
The police can’t convict them sometimes and the therapists can’t evaluate them. They can’t be helped and they won’t be reformed. They are not common criminals. They are worse.
Moraira,
One more thought. As you do talk about this with other people, don’t focus on the emotional rollercoaster you’ve been through (except with your closest confidents).
The real, practical reason you’re ending the relationship is that you’ve discovered he’s untrustworthy. There are issues of fidelity and financial misbehavior. You’ve discovered that it’s not one event, but a pattern of behavior. You’re shocked and disappointed, with him and also with yourself for missing this for so long. Your best efforts to discuss this with him have failed, and he has been abusive and threatening. It’s been a difficult decision, but you’ve decided that it’s better for you and your daughter to start a new life.
If they wonder why you’re discussing with them, it’s because they are important people in your life and you want them to know. That’s all.
People may expect you to be more emotional about this. There’s no reason not to admit that you’re scared of him, but also tell them that you’re taking steps to protect yourself.
You don’t have to go into any more detail than this, even if they ask. All you’re doing is letting people know that something major is happening in your life.
The more you communicate rational decision-making and willingness the take responsibility for your own life, the more you’re going to attract the kind of understanding and support that will be the most useful to you in this transition.
You do need sympathy and someone’s shoulder to cry on sometimes. Just make sure you get it from someone who is completely on your side (or legally bound, like a lawyer or therapist) to protect your interests.
That may not include your daughter, who may be better helped and find it easier to support you, if you present a calm and determined facade. You’re the adult here, and you’re the one who is going to clear up this situation. She may not always agree that he’s the bad guy, but she doesn’t have to. Her opinions are important to you, but so is her safety and wellbeing, which is still your responsibility. Beyond that, this is your marriage and you make the decisions about whether you want to continue.
The day may come when you have to protect yourself from some ridiculous charges in his efforts to harass you or get more of your money. “Seeding” your environment with people who already know that you are breaking off the relationship because of financial and personal abuse will help create a general atmosphere of understanding and support. This may make a difference when you hit crunch time.
Above all, do not share what you’re doing with him. He may hear about a conversation you’ve had with someone, but if he doesn’t know where or how much personal support you’ve got, it will help to convince him that you’re no longer “down” the totem pole. That when you say you want him to leave and you want this over, that you’re serious and he needs to find another gravy train.
Again, you may not understand how important those “hammers” of proof of fraud are, but he does. These steps you take to establish your own identity and distance yourself from his behavior also communicate that you’re not going to protect him anymore or you’re able to take care of yourself. The exact opposite of what he’s been depending on.
Moraira,
This is one more little factoid that may make your hammers even more interesting. In this country, your financial services providers are responsible protecting your interests as well as their own.
Accepting a signature card that was not delivered by you and not confirmed by you in a telephone call from someone who knows your voice raises questions of their liability in any losses you have sustained.
Likewise, any loans on your home equity. When your husband signed papers for you, and advised the mortgage company not to call you, he put them at risk as well as you.
All of that many he took may be recoverable. It something you may want to look into when you get clear of him.
keeping_faith
“Wouldn’t you agree too that if a personality disorder or sociopathy is truly a “moral insanity” that there may be no physical proof of anything?”
Yes I would and in fact there are others that too see it as a moral insanity and/or evil in nature.
*Why Pathological Narcissism is a Spiritual Disorder
A fifth-century theologian who called himself Dionysius the Aereopagite once wrote in The Divine Names that, “The denial of the true Self is a declension from Truth.” In the last analysis, in constructing and clinging to their false selves, the entire persona of the NPD is a big lie. That being so, I have come to believe that NPD is not a psychological disorder at all, but a moral and spiritual disorder. Allow me to explain.
An intrinsic attribute of the NPD syndrome is deception–of oneself and of others–in the service of maintaining the grandiose false self. Philosopher René Descartes wrote that “willful deception evinces maliciousness and weakness.” A person does not deceive without thinking about and willing it. One does not lie unless one intends to hide the truth, which means that one knows that one is being deceptive. Nor can the NPD put together and maintain the elaborate and intricate NPD syndrome of attributes (e.g., using others for self-aggrandisement, attractive social mask, secrecy, evasion, lying, scapegoating, etc.) without conscious effort. Psychologists say that, in their quiet moments, NPDs know that they are not really as grandiose as they pretend. When NPDs cynically use others to “feed” their false self, they know it. When they overreact to perceived criticisms, they know what the truth is. When they lie to conceal their inadequacies, they have chosen to deceive. When they scapegoat others, they do so with deliberation. And when they refuse to apologize, they know they are in the wrong. All of which means that free will is fully engaged in this so-called “disorder.”
In effect, the NPD is more than a mental sickness. Pathological narcissism is not some noxious virus or bacteria that overtakes a person. Whatever the early childhood experiences, free will is still operative here. Rather, NPD is a moral disorder, because it is immoral to lie and to use, exploit, blame, and hurt others. More than immoral, NPD is, at its foundation, a spiritual blight. Since the false self of the narcissist is extremely grandiose, she excludes herself from the moral norms that govern “lesser” beings: “rules don’t apply to me.” That makes NPDs their own gods. In so doing, they are in denial of the fundamentally flawed nature of all human beings. The malignant narcissist is more than immoral, she is evil. In his book, People of the Lie,
Peck proposed to the psychological profession a new diagnostic category of the “evil personality disorder” (EPD) as a sub-type of NPD. As he put it, “The evil are ’the people of the lie,’ deceiving others as they also build layer upon layer of self-deception.” And when the narcissist intentionally hurts another, she has crossed the line from being an NPD to being an EPD. In Peck’s words, “evil individuals will flee self-examination and guilt by blaming and attempting to destroy whatever or whoever highlights their deficiencies.” Except for atheists (who must be very grandiose because they claim to know a negative, i.e., that God does not exist),vi all of us–the religious as well as agnostics–believe in the existence of some supreme moral being or force in the universe. Recognizing that, most of us harken to these words of Descartes: “I have been so constituted as to be some kind of middle ground between God and nothing . . . . [A]s I am not the supreme being, I lack quite a few things.” Dionysius the Areopagite concluded that being self-centered is “inherently wrong” because we have “no right to be the centre of things” as only God is the rightful center of all things.
Not only is vanity and pride the first of the Seven Deadly Sins, I believe that narcissism is the root of all evil. Decrying the ills that he saw rampant in modern society–the relativization of all moral norms and the reduction of life to the immediate pursuit of material gain without regard to its general consequences–VaÇlav Havel observed that “Given its fatal incorrigibility, humanity will have to go through many more Rwandas and Chernobyls before it understands how unbelievably short-sighted a human being can be who has forgotten that he is not God.” It is the misdiagnosis of pathological narcissism as a “personality disorder” instead of a moral-spiritual condition which accounts for psychiatrists’ characterization of it as “one of the most . . . difficult-to-treat conditions in the lexicon of mental illness.”
*Dr. Maria Hsia Chang, Professor, Political Science, University of Nevada, Reno
James, Based on my experience with this this guy, all of this makes sense to me. So what I gather is that it’s not psychosis for him because he lies and has a false self yet he hides the fact and he KNOWS this is a lie. I assume in psychosis that they actually believe what they are saying. This guy deceives for personal gain, mostly from women.
I read a lot about malignant Narcissism originally and now all of these diorders seem so similar to me that I can’t tell one from the other. i prefer the theory that they are a moral or spiritual disorder. I think they are the same or very closely linked and all dangerous.
I recall a conversation with him when he decided he was no longer going to church with me; after he vowed to do so because in the beginning of our relationship he cried and vowed that I “saved him”. Of course when pressed he could not tell me what that meant. (In hindsight it meant nothing but was just another pity ploy). In the conversation he said that he has his own religion and it;s called (his name)ism…he holds worship at the gym on Sunday morning and people come there to worship him. STILL I didn’t run
After what we have been through and all of the lies it doesn’t really matter what we call them I guess, but it’s still so hard to comprehend. Maybe because we are rational people with real thought processes that are not solely about ourselves, that we NEED to see the logic and yet there is none, except that they are tainted, rotten on the inside, pathalogical, and regardless of the law, they are evil and criminal just the same. The damage they do is lasting and marks our spirit and our souls. God help them
Keeping_faith,
Yes may God indeed help them for I know we can’t… But it’s this moral dilemma that I fear about them the most. In short fearing for their immoral soul. Because of my religious belief system those that will go against the laws of God and men will be punish. By men here on earth but then by God after our flesh is gone. Will these people be totally lost to the source of light that comes only from our creator? I now have come to a place where I put this issue in the hands of my creator knowing there is nothing I can do about it. I may walk away but do so with a heavy and sad heart..
James,
you were the first person to post to my story in November. I struggle over a year later and still most people don’t get it. Even my 16 yr old daughter asked me today out of the blue “why didn’t his mom or sister tell you about himor that he is so psych?” I tried to explain how I did tell his sister and she made excuses for him and how on his mother’s death bed, she was telling him to confess and he cried and made up some story about what she meant……. how it’s like an untouchable thing when people don’t want his wrath or they deny the inevitible or reality because it’s easier for them. These people are not causing them physical or financial harm so they don’t feel a real responsibility to others. And they enable them.
Now if I went to his sister and told her that her brother was stealing money from his mother’s estate for years, I bet I would get a better reaction. She understood what I meant then. I think his mom was trying to get the truth out in the end of her life. I think she knew alot about him that even his x wife doesn’t know.
So what is our responsibility to others he has harmed or may harm if any?
I talked to my therapist about this today. I have contemplated contact with his x wife for a couple of reasons, but I can’t send the email. I don’t want her to be harmed emotionally. I think she is in denial. I know more about him than she does. My therapist seems to think my only responsibility is to myself and no one from his past or future.
A woman I know who does victim counseling felt I should contact the x wife. SHe thought it would be helpful to me and to her but told me to tread carefully because I don’t know her mental state. I’m still unsure so I am sitting on the email. James, I too look to God to take care of the things that are out of my control. I think eventually their bad,selfish choices will become evident in the result……… whether that be their health, job or lack there of, prison, lonliness or early death.
keeping_faith
“I’m still unsure so I am sitting on the email. James, I too look to God to take care of the things that are out of my control.”
I guess maybe KF that’s is why I blog and come to these type of site. Knowing that I can’t help them but just maybe I can help when someone gets into and/or out of these dysfunctional relationships. I see LoveFraud being a part of this healing and learning process. But I go looking else were as too. I have a myspace account (under spellbreaker09) and others sites trying to reach out to anyone that might have questions about those that are closest and dearest to them that are suffering from these disorders. But really if we can help them before they get too involved with a s/p that’s even better. We teach people that drugs are bad and hope they get the message before using them. We also need to teach the general public about sociopathic people before they get involved in one. Many people have grow up in dysfunctional families and need to know that they too may be at risk for falling for these love cons and to learn about the many red flags that proceed them whenever one comes into contact with a s/p. Maybe we can’t help our s/p but we can help those that could come into contact with them. But there is also a warning that whenever one tries to help the victim it isn’t unknown to become the enemy with them. It’s like some people need to go thru this toxic relationship first and then wake up from the spell and want to know more. Others still will never see the truth no matter how much we hope they do. But I believe we should still try and just learn to handle the rejection and negative reaction from those that don’t want to know or listen to what we want to pass on. Not sure if it’s important that you email this letter or not. But what does matter is that you took the time and effort to write it.
James,
What I wrote is not apologetic, except for what she may have experienced. it is more empathetic. I can’t apologize for what I didn’t know or for how I was deceived. In the end I basically said that we don’t know each other but what we do know of each other is probably distorted as I have learned that (HE) never spoke truthfully and that we have more in common than she realized.
I don’t think I can send it because I don’t know her and I worry that she may be harmed by what I say.
And the reality is she would have sought me out if she REALLY wanted to know anything right?
keeping_faith: I would just tell the EX wife or the current GF … when they are ready to talk with you, you will be available for them.
Peace.