Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following letter from the reader who posts as “SocioSibs.” She asks, “what would you do?”
What if you have reason to believe that someone you know is a serious danger to others? You’ve known this person almost all your life, grew up together in the same family.
Until recently, this person had a huge menagerie of animals housed on an acre of land, including a horse, 13 dogs, 5 cats, turkeys & peacocks and possibly a parrot or 2. Yet when she abandoned the property, all but 2 dogs she took with her disappeared in a span of just weeks.
Subsequent to this person’s latest move (one of 25 or so over a half-century), you found a couple of canine carcasses hidden behind a barn and miscellaneous skeletal remains strewn about the former property, which conjured a memory of walking in on this person during very early puberty as she was holding a live wild bird over the bathroom sink with a knife to decapitate it, exclaiming upon the surprise encounter that she couldn’t cure it so was putting the poor creature out of its misery.
Then you locate childhood friends and others from this person’s past, learning that one witnessed her strangling or drowning numerous animals, with that same explanation, since age 12. Another witness tells of repeated torture of animals, including punching & kicking her horse (one of 2 that a boyfriend bought her), savagely beating her dog daily, and crushing the skulls of kittens between her fingers and tossing them out of her car onto the ground, all during her mid-teen years.
You recall visions of her often hitting & kicking family pets, to the horror and pain of her parent and sibling, who tried but never could completely curtail it. And then you find a multitude of accounts from witnesses and public records of this person accusing multiple people of stalking her from age 13 through recent years, along with reports this person has made of others poisoning her plants & pets, some of whom died as a result, which stirs memories of childhood pets that died mysteriously, healthy pets whom this person hypothesized at the time must have been poisoned by neighbors or stalkers.
An ex-spouse reports that when divorce became imminent she cooked him a “special” meal, after which he became quite ill and came down with a severe rash all over his body, never experienced before or since. Concurrently this person was attempting to entice a former lover to relocate half-way across the country, unbeknownst to the would-be-again lover that this person was also accusing him of stalking and threatening to kill her due to his mad obsession.
This person has a now-young-adult offspring who has been plagued by mysterious illnesses since infancy, and ended up in hospital emergency rooms more often than most people who live to ripe old ages. One disease that was actually diagnosed was touted to some as the first case in the state, but she may have had access to the bacteria while a biological science student at a major university in the early 90s (for which someone else paid and from which she did not graduate), prior to the meticulous tracking these days of contagious pathogens. And you hear that her ex-spouse independently came to the same conclusion as you as to how your niece contracted it.
You recollect a tale she told of a male roommate brandishing a knife with the person’s then 10-year-old child present, and another when the child was 12 and sexually molested by someone’s 15-year-old son right in the next room.
You are aware of at least 2 occasions when Child Protective Services were called on this person, but in each case she wriggled out of charges. Then, when you contact CPS yourself to inquire, the intake worker on the other end can’t tell you what, if any, reports there may be that have not resulted in convictions. However, seeing it for himself on the computer screen, he urges you to call protective services in the state where this person’s child now resides, even asking you to hold on while he looks up the phone number for you and stresses that you speak with a supervisor there if you don’t get results during the initial call.
Indeed, other authorities whom you contact say they can’t do anything now that this person is no longer within their jurisdiction, while provoking guilt for your not having done something about her sooner. Some suggest you at least try to do something where she is now, recommending entities to contact, even if it’s too little too late.
This person has vilified anyone who could threaten to expose her, portrays herself as a persecuted, sweet, innocent victim of her targeted victims, has been abusing & killing animals since childhood but has come to be known as an “animal whisperer.” You have evidence that she’s been poisoning animals and possibly humans for years, has been lying & stealing and casting blame on others since early childhood, with a criminal record for larceny since at least turning 18 (juvenile records are sealed), and a felony arson record.
Then you find out that this person has fled to another state, welcomed with open arms by family into a home where a young relative resides, knowing that they implicitly trust and feel very sorry for her, for “all she’s been through.”
What if you, too, have defended, protected, and advocated for this person all through the years, because you, too, have been blinded by the bizarre stories she fabricates and sympathy she so ably elicits? And you staunchly held onto the lifelong belief that every person has a heart. But now you can no longer ignore that truly innocent people actually are, and always have been, in danger.
What if this person, knowing you could blow her cover, preemptively already got deep into the heads of the rest of your family and convinced them that you are crazy and evil and out to get her, even though there’s not a shred of substantiation of her claims, but she’s mastered the art of manipulation and has skillfully succeeded in obliterating your credibility & character?
What if you knew all this and so much more, and this person were still on the loose seriously harming others and getting away with it, invited and naively trusted to be alone around those most vulnerable, such as children and animals? What if, having been the most consistently present over this person’s lifetime, with nobody else recognizing the danger or mustering the courage or possessing comprehensive information, you find you’re probably the best candidate to piece together the puzzle so that others might see the whole picture, thereby alerting & enabling them to protect themselves, too? Would you speak up?
Now add that what got your investigative ball rolling was the death of the parent that resulted in the threat of losing your home. Because of a fluke when the parent helped save the sibling from losing her home several years ago as aftermath of a divorce, the deed ended up in the parent’s name, so that now both siblings own it 50-50 because there was no will. The sibling can file a legal claim by which she may possibly regain title to her house, but with the family turned against her, they will likely help this person fight the sibling in court, viewing this person as the tragic victim of a greedy sibling.
Suppose this person attempted to get a sizeable advance of her presumed inheritance, prior to creditors being paid, and prior to the estate administrator discovering that she destroyed what she had been deceiving the family as being the largest asset — the house she lived in that the parent bought her and made all the monthly mortgage payments on (in addition to paying most or all her other bills, even restitution & probation fees), so that now it’s worth less than the remaining note due on it. Third consecutive house that she irreparably demolished—the first being the one she burned down; as opposed to the sibling who originally purchased her own house, for the most part paid her own mortgage, whose house appreciated in value, and who certainly never caused destruction to anyone’s property.
Then it turned out that there will be no inheritance because this person depleted or destroyed all the parent’s financial resources already. The only asset left of any value is the sibling’s house (a small cottage with 50K equity in a low-middle income subdivision, compared to her 4-bedroom 2 bath on an acre that she ruined), while outstanding debts leave the entire estate at a deficit that can force a sale by creditors, debts that can be traced back primarily to this person. Despite these irrefutable facts, this person has convinced the family that the sibling is just trying to take everything, even though there is nothing to take. All the sibling wanted was to keep her own house that she bought herself 2 decades ago and has been inhabiting, maintaining & improving, and caring for ever since.
This all started as a pursuit of the sibling to rightfully keep her home, make it a fair fight, sibling vs. sibling, without the whole family against the one sibling. Now that so much devastating new evidence has since come to light, it has grown into a pursuit to enlighten family members so that they can protect themselves, including the sibling’s own life and that of her child, from this person.
At least one family member admonished that, under the circumstances, that makes you, the sibling, the worst candidate to speak up, condemnable for even considering it, no matter how much you’ve discovered that’s led you to acknowledge that this person is very dangerous and that people — including you and your child — are in harm’s way, because it only makes you appear to have a less than noble motive.
What, if anything, would you do?
Learn more: How to report your abuser’s crimes so the police take you seriously
Lovefraud originally posted this article on Oct. 27, 2010.
Eden,
thank you so much for helping me out. I have a trade show to attend for a week and then a week with nothing to do in long beach or where ever. It would be great if I could take you out to lunch if you have time.
Sky
Skylar, No way? Are you serious!? It would be so wonderful to meet you in person! How crazy would that be? Can we make that happen even if I am unsuccessful at meeting your needs? I will take you out, in that case. or we can take eachother out or what have you. I will do the very best that I can, however, find a situation for you. Have you ever met anyone on here in person? Do people do that? I told LL that she could come hang out! Not weird to me at all. Maybe stupid though?? You aren’t a P are you? Truly just kidding Sky. Do not take that seriously. Honestly though can’t help that it would cross my mind for a split second. That’s pretty normal, correct? God, we are all so affected in ways, huh? Not right. Not right at all.
So the thing that your BF invented must be going well then, if you are out for a tradeshow! Unless you have your own thing going that I haven’t heard about. Really Great, Skylar!
I will try not to get to excited!
E
Oh Eden, you are so sweet.
Either way, whatever you can do, I want to meet you because I’ve never met another LF member in person (though one did call me on the phone once and then disappeared 🙁 )
???
I think I know a spath when I see/meet one by now, so I’m not worried about you but I can totally see anyone’s radar go on high alert at anybody wanting to meet them. I don’t think ANYONE IS MORE PARANOID THAN I AM! If there is one thing I would like to tell the world, is that THEY ARE EVERYWHERE.
Eden, the reason you think I know so much about spaths is that I NEVER stop thinking about them. After 25 years with the spath and my entire upbringing BY N’s, I’m kind of shell shocked. I NEED to understand what is happening.
Today, it occurred to me that maybe the reason there are so many spaths is because most of them don’t even know that they ARE spaths. They think they are normal. These are the ones, like my parents and Oxy’s son, C, who will sit by and watch people get hurt and do nothing. Their intelligence or education, doesn’t allow them to see that THEY ARE NOT NORMAL! THEY ARE SPATHS JUST AS MUCH AS ANY SERIAL KILLER or the Germans who watched the Nazi’s drag away their neighbors. Their moral sensibilities just never evolved. They are still childlike. Lacking a sense of responsibility.
Anyway, sorry I got on a rant. I’ve been listening to Rene Girard tapes again.
Is it OK then to ask Donna to give you my email address?
I think we both have to do it at the same time, so that she will respond.
what about me? :/
Sorry Sky, I just had to tend to something… Yes, absolutely. How do I go about giving Donna my email address and to let her know that she may give it to you?
Can you tell me who Rene Girard is?
Have no fear… I am not, and never have been one to disappear. I always say goodbye before I leave, and I always offer and like to have closure. I will never abandon, or abuse anyone emotionally. I am a deeply thoughtful and caring person. (you know… The kind that spaths are attracted to).
woah, just had this thought… what if all of us on here are not only good people, but what if we are all the best of the best. With the best of intensions and the best character traits. If we attracted the spaths and they were able to lure us in, can you imagine all of the nice, giving and caring individuals there must be on this site. Just a thought. Ok, maybe everyone has this thought, however I only just thought of it as we are speaking.
PS: All that you said about the P, above is so true! All of it. There are never words or explanations or descriptions to run out of, in regard to talking about them. We can go on an on. It is crazy and amazing, really!
E
Shabbychic, Yes, of course… Please do join us, if that is what you had meant by your comment!
Peace,
Eden
Hi all… 😉
I am new to this… (feeling shy n beaten down) no shock…but am looking for advice… I’m facing the whole no contact conversation… and of course… cant let go of wanting to compassionately let him know I know what he is… i somehow want to let him know I know but also creatively let him think he’s giving me up… (havent come up with witty/sarcastic/wise woman words yet). My problem is… of course all the books say… “dont tell them what they are”…. but I’ve seen posts where it’s actually worked out… there’s never been any violence… ?? Thanks all… would appreciate any words of advice… sending blessings… 😉
Hens, I too am so happy that you made that correct decission, for yourself and your own protection! Good move Hens!! I know we don’t know eachother well, but it wouldn’t be the same here without you. There would be a void left. Good job playing it safe, No kidding!!!
Peace and Love,
E
mandorla so happy that you have moved on.. the no contact is the best rule…STICK TO IT!! There is no point in trying to find the words to tell him. This is about you now! If you talk to him all you are doing is giving him a chance to suck you back in! I had no contact with my ex for 9 months, he stalked me made my life hell. When I finally did have contact with him ( in court) he was still saying I love you .. I will do anything. I tried to expain over and over to him why I was divorceing him and he never got it. I filed for divorce very early in the marriage and did not speak to him for two months.. as soon as I spoke to him he sucked me back in. DO WHAT EVER you need to do so that you have no contact. Understand that there are NO words that you can say to him to make him understand.. He is BROKEN you can not fix him! Do not give him the opportunity to suck you back in NO CONTACT! please read on this site getting over that amazing chemestry, that helped me undersatnd so much! STAND strong and do not budge!
mandorla –
“I’m facing the whole no contact conversation” wanting to compassionately let him know I know what he is”but also creatively let him think he’s giving me up” all the books say” “dont tell them what they are—.
By going no contact you achieve two things: most importantly, you place yourself in a position where you can grieve the loss of what you thought you had (the mist and the mirrors) and then begin to put your life back together; NO CONTACT is the ONLY POSITION that this can effectively be done from. Those who must maintain some sort of contact either through ongoing legal proceedings or else because of custody issues over joint children, continue to pay and pay and pay – all WE can do is work to minimise the impact. It is a constant struggle. I can’t WAIT for the end of this year, when my legal battles should by rights be over. The ex-wife prior to me can’t WAIT until her son turns 18; she holds onto the hope that this event will signal a turning point for her, where she will NEVER have to have any contact with our spath again.
The second thing that NO CONTACT for you will achieve is this – he WILL think that he has given you up. Remember – they never take responsibility for their own outcomes anyhow. When he tells the story to his next victims and other dupes, it WILL all be your fault that he HAD NO CHOICE but to cut you loose because of the vindictive, lying, scheming, using, abusive bitch that you are. (Every single nice woman on this site has had these things said about her; and every single nice guy has had the same (just insert “bastard” for “bitch”…)
“I’ve seen posts where it’s actually worked out” there’s never been any violence” ?? ”
Please explain? Many spaths are notoriously violent and abusive; physically, financially, verbally, emotionally, sexually and spiritually. Any who are not either (a) have lacked the opportunity to be those things or (b) because of some other foible or disorder, are squeamish when it comes to some of these things. Violence is way more than a punch in the mouth or a slap across the face.
My spath will proudly tell you that he is “not a violent man” (his words) and that he has “never hit a woman”. Perhaps not (although they DO lie all of the time…) but he DID deliberately drag me behind a moving car for several metres after trapping me in the car door; and he DID shove me and push me and cause me to fall and hurt myself; and he DID throw things at me, including right in my face; and he DID slam doors shut on my face, almost breaking my nose (more than once); and he DID smash my belongings…. and those were just the PHYSICALLY violent things. (Oh – and he DID break the jaw of the wife before me; although technically, depending on how you define “hitting”, he might not have hit her to do so because she says it was a punch…..)
Please, please, please read and listen to the people here. They will be your saving grace – because UNLIKE YOUR EX, they actually do care what happens to you.
sandyjeske –
“I had no contact with my ex for 9 months, he stalked me made my life hell. When I finally did have contact with him ( in court) he was still saying I love you .. I will do anything. ”
Oh yes! This is my story too. Crying to the police for hours on end that I was the love of his life and that he didn’t know how to go on without me. All of it lies though, if you know what love actually looks and sounds and smells like.
Very different man in court appearances these days; no more tearful declarations of devotion; now I am apparently “a vile and disgusting and devious person!” (to be shouted loudly across the court room so that everyone present will take notice and feel sorry for him)(sad thing is, it WORKS too!)
“DO WHAT EVER you need to do so that you have no contact. Understand that there are NO words that you can say to him to make him understand.. He is BROKEN you can not fix him! ”
Never a truer word was spoken.
I tried it all – passing on my research into personality disorders, writing to doctors and counselors on his behalf, interceding on his behalf with his family members who had disowned him, taking him to a psychologist, taking time off work (unpaid) to stay with him to make sure that he was “okay”, endlessly explaining and excusing his odd and unacceptable behaviour to others and on and on.
I reasoned with him until I was blue in the face; now I know that you can’t make sense out of nonsense. I also know that people who have this particular personality disorder are NOT suffering from a mental illness that might excuse or explain their appalling behaviours. They are patently aware of right and wrong and of the consequences of their actions – and they choose them anyway.
They ENJOY the games they play with us and they don’t WANT to change. They know that help is out there – they just don’t want it. This is NOT the same as mental illness, which deserves compassion and assistance and a degree of tolerance.
Everything that they think, say and do is deliberate and planned. All a part of their Masterplan. Pure and unadulterated evil.