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By | April 6, 2010 34 Comments

Magnetic pulses can disrupt moral judgment

Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology were able to disrupt part of the brain that is related to moral judgment by using a magnetic field applied to the scalp of study participants. Normal neural activity in that part of the brain was switched off, resulting in a “no harm, no foul” mentality.

Read Scientists able to manipulate morality on The Scotsman.

Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Scientific research

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Ox Drover

That makes me wonder what an MRI does to our brains. I remember “way back when” I was a kid and you went into a shoe store and they had an X ray machine that they checked to see if your shoes fit correctly—of course supposedly it was “harmless,” but of course now we know that RADIATION isn’t harmless by any stretch of the imagination and that while it does have definite uses for diagnosis we shouldn’t just X-ray everything.

I’ve had several MRIs for diagnostic purposes but always wondered what if any the long term effects could be…of course this still doesn’t answer that question, but does make me wonder more anyway.

Interesting experiment.

alohatraveler

If they can turn it off… can they turn it on?

And if they could, would a true sociopath want to flip the switch of conscience?

Probably not.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

really glad i placed all those omega shaped wires along the ley line today, to subvert the oh to active electo magnetic field running along the property line.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

aloha – GOOD question!

turning it on would probably be extremely punishing – all that unconscionable behavior intersecting with a conscience.

Ox Drover

Hello, Aloha Girl!

I think you are right, even if they could turn it on, the Ps might not like the feelings of conscience. Many people with Bi-polar seem to LIKE the manias and the highs they get from it and feel “bad” if the medication levels them out, so they quit their medication.

With a conscience, they might feel pretty badly or they’d have to change their ways, so probably wouldn’t work.

But the MRI didn’t effect me, effect me, effect me, effect me…..LOL

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Oxy, this is cribbed from one of Dr. Leedom’s posts here (don’t remember which one)

In Psychopaths in Everyday Life, a book by Robert Rieber, there is a great quote.It is,

“The true psychopath compels the psychiatric observer to ask the perplexing and largely unanswered question: Why doesn’t that person have the common decency to go crazy?”

So why don’t psychopaths have the common decency to go crazy? Dr. Rieber explains, “Since psychopaths act as if they were perfectly normal, i.e. sane, they must be skilled in a cunning manner to dissociate any real guilt that they should feel about their antisocial behavior.” He also says that since psychopaths dissociate, they don’t go crazy.’

Elizabeth Conley
Ox Drover

Dear One-step,

Well, I DO dissociate when I am faced with what I think is impending death! Does that mean I’m not crazy? or does it mean I’m a psychopath? LOL (joke, just so no one misunderstands)

Yea I agree it would be nice if they would have the common decency ABOUT ANYTHING, actually. But they don’t.

Oh, well…that’s the nature of the critter!

one/joy_step_at_a_time

oxy – thanks for my first laugh of the day!

‘Yea I agree it would be nice if they would have the common decency ABOUT ANYTHING, actually.’ 🙂

one/joy_step_at_a_time

EC, the title alone is worth the price of admission!

and really – why was a human not used in this experiment? lots of peeps out there willing to ingest for free. why mess up a perfectly SANE chimp?

Ox Drover

Yea, EC, good link, and an interesting one as well. Proves to me too, that anyone can be corrupted with the right drugs and what we already knew, that the desire for drugs will make one lie and cheat and steal and cranky—like we didn’t know that before! Now, wonder how long in CHIMP REHAB he will have to stay, are they going to give him a 12 CLIMBS program instead of a 12 STEP program? Who will be his SPONSOR, how will he call them if he needs help? Will he sign over the telephone?

I’m being a smart alec here (yea, ME!) but actually, I do feel a great deal of empathy for this poor chimp now that they have him hooked and turned into a “human”—poor guy! Not only a human, but an addicted human.

kim frederick

Poor Bobo. I hope they help him recover. He didn’t have the freedom of choice, (in the beginning) that humans have. This was very funny, but really sad, too. 🙁

one/joy_step_at_a_time

‘who will be his sponsor’. HAHAHA!

Ravenless Tower

“Essentially, Bobo has become an a$$hole.”

OR maybe Bobo was already an a$$hole and just didn’t feel like keeping up the pretense of being a charming chimp anymore… It’s been known to happen!

*smile*

neveragain

I think the Bobo story is so sad, and surely anyone reading it who has a heart will think the REAL a**holes are not Bobo, but humans who can justify this kind of cruel experiment on a being whose very reaction tells us THEY JUST AREN’T THAT DIFFERENT FROM US. I didn’t laugh, I felt sick to my stomach for the human race. It is no more acceptable than doing it to a human baby, people!!!! I truly feel sick! How can anyone justify this? We could learn a lot from experimenting on kids with down’s syndrome too. Lower intelligence does not justify the emotional cruelty being suffered by all the chimps that are part of this study. Just sickening. REALLY REALLY SICKENING.

neveragain

OH>>>>>>I see it is the ONION, which is a total joke. It is all made up.

Well, I feel better, but I hope the intent is to make fun of the a$$hole scientists who do these things for real. I’m afraid I see too much in the real world, as I work in the field, that is just too damn close to this.

But phew….

Twice Betrayed

Hey, have any of you read about that Columbian street drug called Devil’s Breath that takes away your free will, while leaving you functional [that is, if it does not kill you].

Ox Drover

Is ONION A JOKE? DUH???????

Yea, I agree if it is a joke you can’t tell it by some of the REAL “research” is just as crazy! LOL Now I feel vioilated! LOL and duped but proves I will believe anything!

TB, no, haven’t heard of that particular drug, I’m out of the loop on the latest and greatest drugs now since I left the college student health services about 8 years ago….had to keep up with it then, but not now….but doesn’t suprise me they atre coming up with newer and “better” and more deadly drugs.

Ox Drover

I just to onion dot com and laughed my butt off but boy do I feel BETRAYED that I FELL FOR that! I feel like I watched SNL and thought that TINA was really Sarah Palin. SHEEEEESH! ROTLFMAO choke, snort, snerdle, choke! Gosh, I guess I needed a laugh but BOY DO I FEEL DUMB!!!!

Guess I wasn’t the ONLY one who took it seriously though! At least there is ONE smart cookie here on this blog! At least ONE with it gal! LOL

Stargazer

Someone posted a video from the ONION on my reptile site about a giant python that ate a small child. The poster thought it was real, but the interview with the parents was hilarious! They posted a pic of the child with “Jaws” the giant 20-foot python “smiling”. They were supposedly inseperable. The giveaway was that they spliced 3 kinds of snakes into that one huge snake.

The parents were saying things like….”We thought it would be okay to let Jaws supervise Zach.” “You never think a large python will bring you anything but joy….” “We were just planning to put a lock on his cage. Well first a door, then a lock.” “Jaws misses Zach so much….you can see it in his eyes.”

Believe me if it had been true, the parents would be arrested for manslaughter, rightfully.

Ox Drover

Dear Star, that is funny, and would have probabloy been pretty obvious with different kinds of snakes in the photos.

Seeing the entire paper though, you could kind of see that it was like SNL type humor, but that “experiment” could have been “real.” Some of the fMRI things are just about as crazy sounding. One guy used an fMRI scan on a DEAD FISH and got the same validity as on live people, so I’m not sure how much I trust that scan to be of any real experimental use. So by that standard it isn’t so far out of line with what folks are actually doing! LOL

That should have been put up on April 1st. I hope Donna was as duped as the rest of us (especially me!) I feel better when smart folks like her and some of the others here get scammed too. LOL Gosh, I hope I am not the one who sent her the link—I’ve sent her links but with the CRS it would be even more embarassing if it was ME! LOL ROTFLMAO But thanks to the CRS I don’t remember it if it was! I can also watch the same movie 2-3 times and it is like the first time I ever saw it, until I tell my son about it, and he says “Mom, you’ve seen that movie a couple of times before!” Yea, RIGHT! Thanks for reminding me squirt! LOL

Elizabeth Conley

My experiences with cluster Bs have led me to believe that a more likely risk to a person’s ethical code is a feeling of being a victim. I’ve observed that self-identified “victims” seem to think anything goes. They often sound like opera stars warming up their singing voices. “Me-me-me-me-MEEEE!!!”

Being around an unethical person is bad enough. The thought of becoming one should be unbearable. Whether we see ourselves as entitled victims or capable survivors may have a profound effect on our futures:

“…Feeling wronged and making it right: Experiencing an unfair, negative event leads to a sense of entitlement and selfish behavior
Authors: Emily M. Zitek1, Alexander H. Jordan2, Benoît Monin1, Frederick R. Leach1; 1Stanford University, 2Dartmouth College
This research explores how feeling wronged can license people to behave selfishly. We propose that wronged individuals feel that they have already suffered enough, and consequently they feel entitled to spare themselves some of life’s minor inconveniences, such as being attentive to the needs of others, and instead behave in self-serving ways (Zitek et al., in press, JPSP). In Study 1, students who received bad numbers in a housing lottery expressed less intention to give back to their community than did students who received good numbers. In Study 2, participants instructed to recall a time when their lives were unfair, as compared to participants who were instructed to recall a time when they were bored, were more likely to refuse to help the experimenter with an additional, optional task. In Study 3, participants who believed that they lost at a computer game for an unfair reason (a glitch in the program) requested a more selfish money allocation for a future task than did participants who believed that they lost the game for a fair reason (not meeting the predetermined performance threshold), and this relationship was mediated by participants’ sense of entitlement to positive outcomes after being wronged.

Buttons

Elizabeth, I agree 100%. Having identified myself as being a victim of manipulation and/or abuse cannot be an excuse for continuing to make bad choices or ignoring my instincts.

I am a Survivor and make every effort to live as one. Sure, I could sit around and hash/rehash/rehash all of the wrongs, but what good would that do? I am not entitled or mandated to “fix” anyone else or facilitate accountability. I only have control over myself, period.

There is no philosophy or religious doctrines that can be found anywhere in the world that state, “Life is Fair.” Life isn’t fair, and I opened the door to the socp by myself. I gave them trust and information, rather than keeping strict management of my boundaries. I gave them the tools of their trade and they used them to their advantage, and that’s it. Having said that, their predatory existences are not to be excused, by any stretch of the imagination. I’ve learned one thing out of all of these experiences, and it is that boundaries aren’t a symptom of being cold-hearted or aloof. Boundaries are healthy and trust is to be EARNED, not given freely.

Although it’s taken me many long years to get the point of all of these lessons, I am grateful that I’m in the space where I am, today.

ErinBrock

I’m not fond of the word “Victim’…..but it has it’s place…..

I found early on…..I called myself a survivor….a cancer survivor…..AND a survivor of DV……AND a survivor of a cluster B…….

I did this consciously because victim sounds meek and mild (to me)……and I didn’t want to identify with meek and mild….
OR poor me!

I needed to fight…..fight for my health, fight the spath, and fight for my kids wellbeing and safety…….
In court I refered to myself as a survivor……NOT a victim.
this gave the court the idea….that I was here for aid….NOT RESCUING……I was not solely relying on a judges orders.

Lately, I’ve been reminded of when I did cry victim…..and I remember the exact random, moment It sank in. EB….NO ONE or NOTHING is gonna jump out and help ya, take control of your life, their is NO award for being a victim…..nobody cares, nobody can change your situation….it’s just a story to them, a sad disheartening story BUT….a story of ‘thank god Eb’s life aint’ mine….
NO One Can change my ‘status’, my life, my situation…..IT’s gonna have to be MOI!
EB…..get off your ars and get-er done!!!

Best move I coulda made for myself!!!!

Early on I thought, remaining a victim I would fare me better in court……
Dang…..what judge would deny a stroke laden, cancer patient who’s husband has abused her and kids and abandoned them…..choosing dope over the family and leaving me in treatment, cancelling health insurance, not paying for ANYTHING as he destroyed our business, leaving me to max out credit cards because I couldn’t work at that time……

BUT….in reality….my STORY didn’t change……MY ATTITUDE DID!!!!
And a judge can’t order I win the lottery…….if the money ain’t there…..it ain’t there to order…..A judge can’t order my health better…..
I have to seek the Dr’s and pay for them…..
So girl…..it’s time to get busy to protect what’s still here…..and go after it……….as a SURVIVOR!!!! I will NOT let him kill me…..either physically through my health issues OR FINANCIALLY!!! For my future.

THE SPATH can and will remain a victim FOREVER…it makes a good story, it draws other victims in…and they can victim reminisce (live in the past forever..and make up new victimizations together)……he cried victim of his mother, his step mother, his g.parents……and NOW HE CAN ADD EVIL ME TO HIS LIST!!!!!

By my strength and determination….I WASN”T GONNA BE HIS VICTIM…..
If someone was gonna be a victim….it was gonna be HIM!!!

one/joy_step_at_a_time

i stick with ‘dupe’. it means i was conned. no denying that. the allows me all the latitude i may need to heal from the experience. ‘victim’ does not.

Ox Drover

Dear Button and EB ,

Both of you wrote some powerful stuff! It is only when we rear up on our “hind legs” and walk like a SURVIVOR and quit crawling along on all fours asking the world to have pity on me a “poor victim” that we can get moving toward healing.

Yesterday I almost lost my life in one of the DUMBEST ways possible. I almost choked on peanut butter. I was hungry and I put a “fold-over” of peanut butter and bread in my mouth and took too big a bite and swallowed and it STUCK–blocking the airway. I WAS NOT MOVING AIR and I could not get it to go down or up. I WAS CHOKING TO DEATH. I was gonna die if I didn’t DO something in the next couple of minutes and open my air way.

Fortunately, having been well trained in this kind of thing I did all the “right things” but nothing worked. That peanut butter was NOT GOING TO MOVE even with me pushing heavily and painfully on my abdomen, then throwing myself over a chair back for more force. I was NOT moving air. So I did what I would have done if you had been choking and I had tried those things to no avail, I stuck my finger down my throat for a SWEEP to see if I could dislodge the obstruction, and I was eventually successful. By that time I was needing air very BADLY.

Afterwards, I sat down and thanked God that I had dodged that bullet and that my son would not come home from his wilderness emergency medicine conference this weekend to find me dead on the kitchen floor. I SURVIVED. While I was standing there unable to breathe I was a victim of choking, but once I could breathe I was a SURVIVOR.

A victim I think must save themselves, but once that is done they are a SUVIVOR. Maybe an injured one, but a survivor none the less. It is I think while we are IN TROUBLE that we are victims, but afterwards we are suvivors. Just as EB is not a cancer victim any more, but a cancer SUVIVOR now. A fighter.

Psychopaths pose as VICTIMS who need someone else to rescue them. Survivors have rescued themselves.

Elizabeth Conley

“THE SPATH can and will remain a victim FOREVER”it makes a good story, it draws other victims in”and they can victim reminisce (live in the past forever..and make up new victimizations together)—he cried victim of his mother, his step mother, his g.parents—and NOW HE CAN ADD EVIL ME TO HIS LIST!!!!!

By my strength and determination”.I WASN”T GONNA BE HIS VICTIM”..
If someone was gonna be a victim”.it was gonna be HIM!!!

You go girl. That’s what I like to hear. It’s exactly how I feel about the cluster Bs who are now, by the grace of God, mostly out of my life. I hear reports of their latest whiny-briny tale of woe, and I try to act at least a little sympathetic so as not to shock their dupes with my supposed “insensitivity”.

I’m sensitive to people in pain, not people who are pain! Cluster Bs use their incessant tales of woe to lure in fresh victims and keep old victims feeling too guilty to make a break for freedom.

Darned if I’m going to be part of that dysfunctional pattern in any way, shape or form.

ErinBrock

Thanks EC…..
It is ALWAYS a tale of whiny briny woes…..society seems to like those and suck right onto…..the victim nipple.
Your right…..about not shocking the dupes with our insensativity sounding crass…with shutem down words…..
So I act indifferent and sometimes show (appear) to be compassionate towards the spath too……
COUNTER CONTROL….in order to be heard…..

SocioSibs

FYI, this article is no longer at the link at the top of this page, http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100329/tsc-brain-disruption-alters-moral-percep-e123fef.html

However, the full article can be found at its original source, http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Scientists-able-to-manipulate-morality.6189323.jp

Ox Drover

Thanks Socio Sibs, and welcome to LF, I’m assuming from your screen name you have some socipaths in your family. Sorry! That’s not a fun thing, but does qualiofy you as a “member” of our “club”—and if you have to be a member of a club you don’t want to join, this is the best one available I [email protected] Welcome!

Jewels

OM goodness – what happened to the ARTICLE link “Page not found…” ?

it would have been a fun read this morning…
~j~

SocioSibs

Thank you for the welcome, OxDrover.

Yes, there’s a sociopath in my life — I grew up with her.

And yes, this is a top-notch “club”. I’ve read a lot of articles, blogs, and posts here, but still only a fraction of what all is available at this site. Its creator & authors are providing an invaluable service, and I count it among the resources I access to learn more as I continue my pursuit to expose sociopaths and raise public awareness.

I appreciate the contributions you’ve made here, and how warm & welcoming you are to other members, including myself.

learning

Sociosibs –

I like your website!

Way to go!!!!!

SocioSibs

Thank you, Learning.

Trying to be another voice to help educate the mainstream and generally raise public awareness about this affliction on society.

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