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Malingering and psychopathy: a likely connection

By:  Linda Hartoonian Almas, M.S. Ed

There may be a correlation between psychopathy and malingering.  Some studies support that increased PCL-R (psychopathy checklist) scores correspond with an increased potential for malingering, while others are less conclusive.  Regardless, if psychopathic individuals, or those with such features, seek to gain or avoid something through manipulations, they are good at bringing their intentions to fruition.

What is malingering?

Malingering is defined as intentionally making up or exaggerating medical or mental symptoms in an attempt to avoid one or a variety of responsibilities.  It is an intentional misrepresentation of facts in an effort to appear unable to work, or to fulfill other obligations.  Additionally, with this avoidance, comes an external reward or some form of perceived personal gain.  Often, malingerers see no other ways to achieve their avoidance goals.

Why do they do it?

This external payoff may come in the form of “getting something for nothing,” through unemployment or disability benefits, avoiding punishments in some circumstances, or getting out of having to perform what they consider to be undesirable tasks, and more.

The specific reasons and presentations may be as numerous, but the motivations are relatively consistent.  Mainly, there’s something they must do, but don’t want to or feel they need to.

How do they malinger?

It is common for malingerers to feign mental or psychiatric conditions over physical maladies. They may feel that these are easier to fake, since diagnostic methods may be more difficult to quantify.

If malingerers claimed broken arms, for example,  x-rays could quickly negate any false claims.  The same is true for many other physical ailments.

However, it is easier to claim stress or distress, or a variety of other mental afflictions, that may render malingerers “unable” to work or make good on their obligations.  In fact, they may even blame us for their “illnesses.”

Pathological lying and manipulation

With a primary element of malingering being intentional deception, it makes sense then that psychopathic individuals, or those with psychopathic traits, may be likely to engage in successful malingering.  Two prominent traits psychopaths exhibit are pathological lying and manipulative and deceptive behaviors.  Both are necessary in order to malinger successfully.

Most of what psychopaths say is false, or laced only with grains of truth that are usually seriously distorted.  Since they lie and distort with ease, and manipulate people and circumstances to achieve what they want, it is easy to see how they are able to manage malingering successfully.

Parasitic lifestyle

Furthermore, it is common for individuals with psychopathic traits to live parasitic lifestyles.  They are often careless, putting us in situations that cause us distress for their own gain or pleasure.  Initially, they may look like our soul mates, wonderful long lost relatives, or saviors.  They may come bearing gifts and making promises.

However, we quickly learn that most of what they offered came with conditions.  The promises failed to materialize, and that they, in fact, arrived on the scene to live off of us.

They may even put us in positions to pity them, fight for them, or defend them.  Eventually, we realize that they view life to be about their needs, rather than those they are obligated to.  Parasitic.

Why is this relevant?

When we unknowingly become close with psychopaths, we are going to be touched by this in some way, at some point in time.  “The right thing” may be something they spend a lot of time addressing, but very little time actually doing.

Since it is common for individuals with psychopathic traits to fail to make good on their obligations and responsibilities, it is worth understanding.

When they find themselves in too deep, and it is impossible for them to shirk their responsibilities in any other fashion, they may simply choose to take themselves out of commission.

Practical application

Although malingering can take place for a variety of purposes and in a variety of different ways, let us examine the possibility of a parent doing so to escape paying child support.  Many readers have probably experienced this, as it is a common challenge among those dealing with individuals exhibiting such traits.  The motivations for attempting to eliminate the support may be numerous, but are less significant than the actual act.

It is true that many good people, who genuinely care deeply, are simply sometimes unable to adequately provide.  However, in cases where we suspect malingering, it is critical to assess the big picture.

What is the history?  What are some of their attitudes displayed prior to the malingering?  Were there inconsistencies in stories or statements?  Was it clear that elusive measures were being contemplated?  Were the actions and the words, again, failing to match over time?

Are other bills going unpaid?  Is there a telling history regarding who they are choosing to pay and who they are choosing not to?  Is there a history of bankruptcies?  Do most of the “explanations” begin with blame and end with lack of ownership and reasonable solutions?

Well intended individuals are typically not be satisfied with offering next to nothing significant for support, regardless of circumstances.  Additionally, those who have genuinely lost the capacity to perform in their chosen careers often acquire new and different skills or do whatever it takes to contribute similarly and meaningfully.

Further, they do not lie about their intentions, indicating that they will provide in one respect and then not follow through when the opportunities present themselves.
When malingering is present, attitudes of complacency, or even satisfaction with the situations they have created may be present.   

Is malingering possible to prove?

It is possible that medical professionals or evaluators can prove malingering?  Like many other behaviors psychopaths display, the malingering is no different, in that they tend to lack the consistency that  individuals who are truly suffering exhibit.  Those too ill to work or perform duties, for example, may also be unable to recreate or participate in activities that would otherwise bring them joy.

However, successful malingerers may continue on with other activities, or even engage in things they would not otherwise participate in.  In essence, out of work may translate into on vacation.

Actual symptoms of certain conditions they are faking often look much different, as well.  They may go through the motions of doing what needs to be done in order to appear “ill” or to “recover,” but their actions still tend to look different than those who are legitimate.

Again, while assessing, it is important to examine the circumstances collectively.  Does the individual have something to gain by malingering?  If it appears that they may, that is a good indicator that they are malingering.

All the while, it is important to remember that a normal person’s interpretation of something to gain, and theirs, may look very different.  Thus, making their intentions easier to conceal, unless reminded of the need for this awareness.

It may be necessary for providers and employers to ask probing questions, observe carefully, and gather pertinent outside information.  The words cannot be trusted and taken at face value.

If clinicians consider all of the circumstances, and do even a small amount of research, they may come to know that further investigation may be necessary.  Unfortunately, this is not always a priority until the issue comes into the forefront, somehow.

Who would do this?

It may seem odd that there are individuals who choose to engage in these behaviors.  Aren’t they  coincidentally harming themselves?

While that depends on individual circumstances, in many cases, they are.  Nonetheless, the payoff that they are attempting to achieve may override logic and reasoning.  Their eyes are on the prize, so to speak.  Yes, that sometimes defies logic, which is another reason this may seem unbelievable.

Remember, we are not discussing a portion of the population that typically acts with anyone’s  best interests in mind.  Strangely enough, although they mainly act selfishly, sometimes, this even extends to mean their own.

As it is becoming my mantra, I will close with the suggestion that we take comfort in the understanding.  It will allow for peace amongst disorder.

 


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thanks Linda for bringing up this topic. I can think of 6 cases where Lovefraud readers have told me that the sociopath they were involved with pretended to have cancer. Sometimes the motivation was simply a sympathy play.

Ox Drover

Linda, I am acquainted with a woman I believe is very high in personality disordered traits. She has been fired from every job she has had in a reasonable circle of where she lives. She is a nurse. She then went to travel nursing and was fired from several of those jobs.

After each of the firings she had to have surgery on some portion of her body which required months off work. At age 50+ you can always find some doc that will operate on some portion of your body if you try enough doctors and claim enough pain.

She was referred to the nursing board after the last firing and they made her take an anger management class and write a paper to keep her license.

She is now applying for SSD because her back hurts. I have not see that she is unable to do anything that she WANTS to do but if she wants someone else to do it she is unable to do it.

She is also claiming “deep dark depression, excessive miserieeee” as well.

Because she is also a spend thrift and her husband who does work is quite ill and has been told by his agency that he either has to take disability or find a sedentary job with their agency (none is available in their town or within reasonable driving distance)

She refuses to take the medications Rx’d by her doctors and instead takes “herbs and spices” which she has bad effects from. One “herbal tea” she took for her diabetes gave her such diarrhea that she lost 50 pounds in about 3 months. she quit that and now is back on another kind of “herb or spice” rather than the medication her doctor Rx’s

Her husband is a friend of my sons and mine and we dearly love him, but he is not going to divorce her at this stage in his life, age 62 and very ill, but she has gotten them into deep hot financial water. We sort of have to have contact with her from time to time in order to visit with him, but we also realize that she is not going to change for the better. So far her SSD has been turned down and I think it should be. she is perfectly capable of working except for being a biatch…maybe SSD should have a category of payment for psychopaths too lazy to work. LOL

The studies showing that therapy doesn’t help psychopaths I think would also or should anyway also show that they use those “therapy words” as ways to fake depression and mental illness in order to not work, or get disability.

In my experience with patients over the years I have found that patients with GRAVE physical problems that would keep them from working were denied disability, but that if I would put in the report that they were depressed (and they were usually VERY depressed about not being able to work) they would get the SSD approved.

It seems to me from my experiences with patients that a mental illness like depression or short term memory problem is much easier to get SSD approved than even some GRAVE physical illnesses.

Depression or STM loss is easier to fake than some other physical illnesses as well. Funny thing though, I have had patients whose depression was totally debilitating (one woman after her daughter was killed is still not able to go back to work as a teacher) but she has NOT applied for any kind of disability even though I have strongly encouraged her to do so and think she qualifies in spades for disability. she is going regularly to therapy and is under the care of a psych MD but there are weeks when she can’t get out of bed because she can’t quit crying.

Donna mentioned the psychopaths claiming to have cancer and raising thousands of dollars in donations…a couple of those that made the news have been prosecuted and sent to prison.

Sometimes the “disability” is for financial gain, and sometimes for empathy/attention or just to have someone else support them without them having to work.

Donna knows the case I am talking about, but I had a woman who was a “victim” that I allowed to come here to park her RV on my farm. She was down and out and needed a safe place to park. That was all I offered her, that and some assistance in finding a job, etc. but she did NOT want a job. she could have done some editing work over the internet for another lady we knew but wouldn’t even do that. Tooo upset. Too depressed. But she sure wanted to run a con on me. I quickly caught on and sent her packing off this place, but on the day she left she accused me of “not helping her find a doctor” (no money no insurance) but she had refused to go to the free clinic, and when I mentioned this, she said “well, yes, I didn’t go when you offered, (repeatedly) but you were so busy” (typical P, blame it on the intended victim.)

I didn’t become this woman’s victim thank goodness, because I saw quickly that she was not willing to HELP HERSELF. I gave her OPPORTUNITIES but she refused to take advantage of them, and I did NOT offer to be responsible for her.

In dealing with anyone I think we need to see how willing they are to take care of their own needs if an opportunity is presented to them. If they are unwilling to take advantage of an opportunity, then they are trying to play you. I think it is a RED FLAG in any relationship, not just in a “love” relationship.

Truthspeak

Excellent article and not at all surprising. Consider the constant “one-up-manship” that they engage in. A victim’s gall bladder removal is minimalized by the spath, “I had my appendix out and…….”

Munchausen By Proxy. Very disturbing, but very typical.

clair

Great article, Linda. You raise one of those very intangible points about Ps: the ones that play on our sympathy, are always in need, are endless black holes of need and often game tax payer public assistance with their “disabilities”.

“In dealing with anyone I think we need to see how willing they are to take care of their own needs if an opportunity is presented to them. If they are unwilling to take advantage of an opportunity, then they are trying to play you.”

This is a very timely topic for me because I think I’m dealing with one of these now. I don’t know if he truly can’t help himself or it’s an actual physical ailment or psychosomatic or BS or a combo of all. But, I will say this: He plays on my sympathies, I feel drained and guilty. And yet, it feels like I can’t help him: the more I try to help, the more he needs & his needs are very consuming. I keep telling him to go to therapy because I’m not a T and I don’t want to listen to all his problems all the time, but he says he can’t find a T & therapy won’t help. So, stalemate.

Truthspeak

Clair: “the ones that play on our sympathy, are always in need, are endless black holes of need…” Black Holes Of Need…..

Sounds like he’s a soul-sucker….an energy parasite. HUGS

DawnG

This is a very timely article.

The ex had a mystery illness that kept him planted on the sofa for a entire six month period. He was sick, so sick. Tired all the time, achy, just not feeling well at all. He refused medical help. He managed to drag himself up to go have a few beers several times a week.

Then the mystery illness became more dramatic. One of the ways he got me to come back to him was to insinuate he had pancreatic cancer and that the prognosis was very grim.

He’s obviously still alive.

During the final D&D he claimed to have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. A couple of people have told me he still drinks every day, uses copious amounts of marijuana, and lives an entirely unhealthy life. His new “house mouse” that was my replacement has to take care of him all of the time (I feel so incredibly sorry for her but I’m happy that it’s not me). He now has “anxiety attacks” that have required emergency medical care. I never knew him to be anxious – not one second of anxiety in all the time I knew him. He was a lump who slept as much as he could get away with and never, ever was prone to worry or any other anxious thoughts. I never saw him experience stress like normal people do.

It doesn’t even matter anymore, but I have found myself wondering on a couple of occasions whether he’s ramping up his illnesses for attention and the continuing excuse not to do any meaningful work.

clair

Thank you ((Truthspeak)). Yes, a soul-sucker and an energy parasite.

Funny you should say that because I once had a psychic tell me the same thing about him! But, I pity him cuz he is a soul-sucker. I feel sorry for him that he wound up with that karma.

Here’s the latest:
Just got off the phone with the “Black Hole Of Need”. He’s a cousin, but we were raised like siblings. I’ve been urging him for 2 yrs to go back into therapy.

Just finished a 2.5 hour telephone conversation with him re: all the problems in his life & his physical health. For the last 2 years, I’ve been telling him that his problems & stress are manifesting as physical symptoms of illness.

So after 2 hours of talking, he then mentions he just started seeing a therapist!!

I’m listening to his blah-blah-blah & 2 hours in, he then tells me he’s been seeing a T for the last month.

Why didn’t he tell me that in the beginning of the conversation!?!
I could have been spared 149 minutes of his complaints-problems!!!?!

So, I told him I was happy he went into therapy.

Here’s the kicker: Guess what? He told me that the T said that one of the biggest problems in his life is ME!

My response: “I’m sorry to hear that”.

I’m really proud of myself that I didn’t respond by telling him what an F’ing pain in the arse he is to me! I didn’t take the bait!!

Also, after 2 hours of me talking about how stress can cause & trigger physical illness, THEN he tells me that his wife has also been telling him THE SAME THING!!

Again, why didn’t he tell me earlier in the conversation that his wife has been saying the same thing ?

I spent 2.5 hours LISTENING to him repeat & repeat & repeat his complaints.

Do you know anyone like this??? Gd, give me strength!

clair

DawnG,

I don’t mean to laugh at your pain, but I did chuckle at the following:

“(I feel so incredibly sorry for her but I’m happy that it’s not me).”
Girl, I know that feeling!!!!

“He was a lump who slept as much as he could get away with”
Yes, as much as they can get away with!

DawnG, I’m glad you’re OUT of that scene & no longer his nurse maid.

“Nurse Maid”: that is what these people want: Someone who is both their Nurse & their Maid & who works for FREE and FINANCIALLY supports them.

Back_from_the_edge

SOUL SUCKERS.
EMOTIONAL VAMPIRES.

Smart_Yet_Deceived

Thank you Linda for this article. I had never heard the term malingering before, but after reading this article I see a direct correlation to all of the disorders that are discussed on this site.

I started putting the pieces together when reading about different sociopaths that faked cancer for attention. Now I realize that my ex Spath malingered as well: She started complaining of her stomach hurting *funny how this coincided with the time when she went broke* and had to go to the emergency room. Of course I was fully supportive since I was afraid it could be appendasitus (sp?). So after 4 hours of tests and a $2700 bill, they said they didn’t know what was wrong, but it was not life threatening…

So she refused to work, and instead applied for food stamps, then state funded medical coverage. She then announces that it must be gluten intolerance. However, she would not give up eating gluten *Funny how that works*. In true form, she would not even accept the consequences of her faked illness!

It was not long after this that she became pregnant, and of course, could not work. But, she could lie in bed 21 hours a day and play on Facebook! Sorry I am ranting here, this just brought up some anger that I thought I had gotten rid of.

I am so glad that I figured out what her game was, I just wish I had known 6 months earlier! Anyway, it sounds like all of these people share one thing in common, they will go to any lengths to avoid doing anything they do not want to do.

Truthspeak

I’m actually laughing, this morning, about the spaths’ malingerings. The one that comes to mind, immediately, is a very telling interaction between the female ex-con spath and her mother. The mother had serious knee issues and had returned from her place of employment and was rubbing her knees and said, “My god, but they hurt.” No sonner than the words left this woman’s mouth, her daughter piped up and whined, “My knees hurt, TOO!” And, I mean there was a nanosecond between the mother’s comment and the spath’s complaint.

I just shake my head. And, thank you for the vocabulary lesson, Linda! “Malingering” is a odious word without even knowing the meaning. Now that the meaning is clear, it’s even more so.

Clair,
I hope that God doesn’t give you strength to endure your black hole cousin, because YOU SHOULDN’T ENDURE HIM.

You are letting him abuse you under the mantle of his pity ploy. When he blatantly told you that you were the problem, that’s when you should have cut him off. As long as you let him talk to you that way, WHY would he change? You aren’t doing him or yourself any favors by putting up with him. Gray rock him, and watch the change.

Just because you are strong enough to endure him doesn’t mean you should, Clair. That strength was meant for better and more important things.

Jesus told us, “don’t throw your pearls to swine.”

clair

Thank you, skylar.

I know you’re right. Thing is that I have been gray rocking him for over 1 year and I think he hates that I’ve done so. He hates when I gray rock him because I’m not giving him supply. When I gray rock him, he seethes silently and I guess after a year of not giving him supply, he exploded.

Unfortunately, I am in a small family business with him and am in the process of extricating myself. Our grandfather left a business & unfortunately, cousin is my partner. I’m in the process of separating cousin’s half from my half.

Biggest prob is that because cousin has been MALINGERING for the past 2 decades, he doesn’t know how to run his business. So, I finally found a reliable manager to run cousin’s business, am tying up loose ends and preparing for the hand over. Cousin wants to run his half of the business, but I fear he may run it into the ground. He is rather pathetic & inept and deep down, he knows it and yet, he’s an entitled N. So, he’s an inept & entitled N. He resents me because I’m competent.

Morally, I need to know that when I hand off his business to cousin & manager, I’ve done the best I could do for him. If cousin later sinks his boat, that will be his problem, not mine.

After that conversation with him yesterday, I wonder if he’s losing his mind. But, he’s always been this way, however, he seems to be getting worse. My old T (who had a session with him) told me he’s mentally ill. Well, that may be true, but the fact remains that he’s simply difficult to deal with and nasty.

When he told me I was his problem, it reminded me of my mother, who would also say mean things to me just to hurt me. One time, I finally asked my mother “Did you say that just to hurt me”? and she answered “Yes”. So, this is a family dynamic of saying untrue, mean things just to hurt someone. No doubt there are personality disorders in my family.

On a deeper level, I wonder if this is a karmic challenge to me.

bottom line: in my mind, cousin has used up his allotted rant & spewing time for this year. I will not subject myself to that again for the rest of this year. Hopefully, I’ll separate the businesses soon and will set him free.

Sorry for hogging his thread, but, like I said, the topic really hits home for me.

Truthspeak

Clair, bless your heart! You’re not “hogging” the thread…you’re “speaking” about what you need to.

Once you’ve separated the business, you can walk away without a backward glance, regardless of whether cousin’s losing his mind, or not.

I often wonder about Wills and so forth….in that, if people “knew” how their beneficiaries often behaved after their deaths when money is involved, would they have altered things, accordingly?

I’ve known SO many people that have watched whom they believed to be “close” family members jump their proverbial rails when money entered into the equation. I have a friend, right now, whose siblings (neither of which is employed) speak on a constant basis about whom they’ll inherit money from, next. My friend finds the whole topic to be despicable and has gone NC with them both.

Hugs, Clair….

Ox Drover

Clair, separation from this creep is definitely the only way you will escape from him.

Use Caller ID and just don’t answer his calls. Or if you do, say “Oh, so sorry but I must go X and do Y will talk to you later” MUCH LATER! LOL

clair

Thank you, Truthspeak.
Regarding Wills, one of the reasons why I am here at LF is because I discovered (ie: it eventually dawned on me) that I come from a family of Personality Disordered people: NPD, Borderlines, Ps, ya know, a garden variety assortment of Cluster Bs.

Thank you, Oxy.
I know you are right. You & I have discussed this cousin before. I am dancing as fast as I can to go NC with him.

I think I got a great one liner that sums up the Malingerer:
“The tyranny of the helpless”.

And yet, and yet: I wonder, in the back of my mind whether these toxic people are some kind of karmic challenge?

Here’s the thing: I think Oxy was talking about how SPaths want us to betray our own integrity. I want to leave this Spath with as “clean hands” as I can. I know that he will bitch about whatever I do, but I need to know, within myself, that I’ve helped him as much as I can, without doing damage to either him or myself. This, I think, is “The tyranny of the helpless”.

JustBree

It’s always good to check in…seems like I always see and learn something or have an, “Ahaa!” moment. My spath was a classic malingerer – He couldn’t do anything for himself because his ADHD keeps him from concentrating. He always claimed to be distracted by random noises (that only he heard) and snap whenever I tried to talk to him when he was (fill in the blank.) Of course it didn’t stop him from watching TV and cruising sex hook-up sites at the same time. And he somehow managed to concentrate enough to get his pilot license. Oh, but that was because it was something he was interested in. You see, he can only do things he is interested in because of his ADHD so I’m sure you won’t be surprised to learn that getting a job or making any financial contribution were not on the list. No job and flying lessons you say? Money “given” to him by his 86 year old grandmother. Silly me thought he might pay me back for the motorcycle I bought him or the $5,000 worth of equipment I bought him so he could start his own business.

PS – Got a text from him for the first time in 11 days. I wasn’t even tempted to reply. It really does get easier 🙂

Truthspeak

JustBree, I’m SO glad to hear that you didn’t respond to his text. For me, I’d block him, entirely, or change my number, etc…..removing that viaduct into my life was the most important step that I could take.

I would probably have been diagnosed ADHD, but I don’t think that ADHD necessarily means anything more than a condition that can be managed without medications. My feeling is that ADD/ADHD has become a catch-all excuse for really bad choices and behaviors. I had to teach myself how to learn and study, and it wasn’t until I was in my junior year of high school that it finally began to fall into place for me. But, I also grew up in the time where Ritalin and Aderal hadn’t even hit the market, so I had to sort it out on my own, and I am truly appreciative that was the case for me.

I just think that the ADD/ADHD “factor” is a rush to a label, a stampede to medicating instead of managing/raising a child, and a handy-dandy excuse.

JustBree, good for you on your road to recovery and healing! 😀

savvy

Wow! I am still involved with a man I believe is a Sociopath.. he retired with a fantastic Disability pension ….he says he was diagnosed with PTSD. due to work related circumstances ….. he basically does nothing productive , but manages trips .. to Toronto … Panama City Beach 4 winter months… .. and when we aren’t together .. 11 yr age difference … I
a cougar…:) . he’s says we are ” single ” .I insists on Safe sex…. and he doesn’t resist… He is a Playboy .. I’m positive of … has all the spath characteristics … the charm.. the meaningless ” I love you ” words … still communicates with ex girlfriends who must still be hung up on him . Sex is priority…. 2 1/2 yrs .. long distance … yes I know I’m sick for puttin up with this crap and his Disorder.. but .. something keeps me in his life.. yes the sex .. is best I’ve ever had . when together … most fun .. trips fabulous … treats me wonderfully .. then when we are apart …. he’s “single “.

Anyway… back to malingering …. he is a healthy speciman of a man …. and I’m sure he duped his Employer.. he’s 52…. and now fighting the CRA against taxing his wonderful pension ….. he has a brilliant mind … and I think he has planned this all out just like he ” plans” his trips and the escapades with all the women in his life .
If he suffers from PTSD .. he sure hides it well … like he thinks he’s hiding all his women from me ….

I know … why am I still doing this with him ? Am I sick too ? have asked myself that a lot .. I actually have and a
taking steps to release him and Me from this ” relationship ” , not calling , not emailing , not replying to emails… like he avoids that … so abnormal ,
it’s a matter of time ..I need to get myself at peace and mentally healthy again …. i think I am rambling now … sorry.. it really is good to get this all out… this blog has helped me recognize what I am dealing with..
Thanks for the “malingering ” info … I learn something every time
I read this Blog! May we be Strong and Courageous enough to deliver ourselves from the Spaths of this world!

slimone

Savvy,

The only way to end it is to do just that. End it. No more contact: no emails, texts, calls, letters. No contact whatsoever. The good news is because he has kept his distance you sound like you have absolutely nothing to lose.

Because, believe me, he is nothing. There is not a ‘hidden’ person of substance hiding there. It is a complete and utter ruse to get supply. You are nothing to him but a mechanical object, and he pushes your mechanical buttons to get whatever kind of supply he desires in the moment.

Don’t wait, Savvy……get rid of this evil man. Enabling him, by continuing contact, contributes that much more vileness to the world. Each time we enable this kind of nastiness, it is encouraged.

Find out the why’s and whatfor’s for your attraction. Where do you need to shore up your values. And ask why you allow yourself to be used for someone else’s amusement. You clearly know he is rotten. Why stay?

Take care of your life and heart. It is the ONLY one you have.

Slim

stillinshock

My sociopathic ex quit work to lower his child support payments. He has gone back to court 3 times to lower from $400 a month to half that. He still won’t pay it.

He is claiming disability with a bad back. He cannot work because of his back; however, he can play tennis, go canoeing and ride on roller coasters.

He is trying to get SSDI. He does not have any doctors notifications that show he is disabled, yet he is getting food stamps and help because of his “disability.” He has had his license suspended for not paying. He will drive himself to the police station for visitation exchanges.

He not only sucks the people he is involved with dry, but also the government and any agencies willing to help him. He feels no guilt at not helping support his child. He is actually quite happy that he is getting away with “something.”

Back_from_the_edge

slimone: I agree with you, wholeheartedly. The only way to end it is just to end it. No more contact. “I” found it a little easier to do being we never formally ‘lived together’ or even resided in the same geographic location, so it was easier for me. If I had to live in the same area, I would have seriously considered moving, not in defeat but in resolution.

I have had a psychopathic stalker for the past ten years. At first, I ignored him. Until he barged into my life by my giving him attention. He sucked me in and spun webs and when I started seeing through the mask and spurning his attentions is when the death threats and attempts came. The past five years, I have spent deep in depression, suicidal tendencies, him threatening to murder me and just on and on. “IT” even had me almost convinced that “I” was the insane one. I never thought I would ever break free from his control. And, then, as I started learning ‘who’ these people are and what to watch for and the MOST IMPORTANT PART: learning I wasn’t alone, well, after five failed NC attempts, the sixth was a charm.

I am past the one month mark. Only the past week it has been quiet without stalking. I don’t reciprocate the stalking and liken it to just that: criminal stalking. I NEVER RESPOND. All of the warnings, bells and whistles have been delivered and there is never and never will be, ever again, any response from me in any way, shape or form. And, if he comes anywhere near me, he will be arrested.

I am not afraid of “IT” like I used to be but I am still aware. I have lots of back up where I reside and he knows it. He has been escorted out of town once already and if I were “IT”, I would be very careful on whose grass I walk on anymore.

The nightmare is finally getting to the ‘over’ part for me. I hope and pray. I am just waiting for the boogeyman to jump out of the bushes at me, all the time. I am finding that no matter how much times passes, that ‘jumping’ instinct will always be there. There is nothing to take that away but reprocessing and making changes in myself. MYSELF.

Thanks again slim for rattling my melon…xxoo

You just have to stop giving them the attention. Whether you give them good attention as in kindnesses, or bad attentions, in the way of telling them what you think, they love it all. They absolutely HATE no attention.

Savvy: slim is right. You need to get rid of that evilness in your life. I know how hard it is to let go of the ‘dream’ but that was all it was…our perception of what we THOUGHT they were.

“Enabling him, by continuing contact, contributes that much more vileness to the world. Each time we enable this kind of nastiness, it is encouraged.” ABSOLUTELY.

Thanks, slim, for bolstering me up this morning.
It’s been a very long, exasperating and tiring experience.

Dupey

slimone

YAY Dupey!!!!!

Glad I could give you a little boost of resolve. I think the ONLY reason to ever have anything to do with these types, is to WAKE up, and come face-to-face with the truth– Evil exists. We can quit participating with evil. We can let go of our false beliefs. We can create lives of honesty, integrity, and real awareness.

Now that we know, let’s, little by little, make this world a better place.

Slim

savvy

Slim and Dupey.. thank you for your comments. I know in my Heart of Hearts you are absolutely right….. and it WILL happen…. I cannot live without “normalcy”…… this “not normal” sutff drives me crazy. You are also right on, Dupey with your comment re: letting go of the Dream I THOUGHT he was… boy, if we’d only listen to our “gut” at that “git go” stage, we’d all be ok now, wouldn’t we? You know, that ole saying “If it’s too good to be true, it is”…. keeps on coming back….. it’s always correct. Just reading these uplifting encouraging comments is wonderful! Thank you!

Truthspeak

Slimone, “Evil exists.” Indeed, it does and I have always been aware that there are “bad people” out there. What I never knew or understood was that REGULAR LOOKING PEOPLE – normal, everyday in appearance, ect. – can be just as evil as Ted Bundy and “Reverend” Jim Jones.

Sometimes, it just seems prudent to live in a cave…. 😉

Back_from_the_edge

savvy: I am sorry for what has befallen you but don’t lose sight of yourself and the dynamic person you are. You know your worth and value. You don’t need anyone else to validate you. Certainly not this “THING”. Right: I completely understand you hearing: “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is…” I hear it often myself. I do. Instead, we try to be the ‘nice person’ and give whatever we think we have to, to someone and/or for someone, and they devour us like a bottom dweller on the ocean floor.

You hang in there savvy…I can tell by your words that you are a very ‘enlightened’ person and as long as you cling to yourself, you will make it through the storm. I will be hoping and praying for you. Just remember who you are; alright? Nobody can take that away from you.

((savvy))

Dupey

Back_from_the_edge

Truthspeak and Slimone: Oh yes, I can attest to that fact that evil DOES exist. It most certainly does. Oh yes, we all kind of sort of ‘knew’ there are bad people out there, but you don’t really think it will happen to you, that you meet a real live psychopath who devours your life and walks away laughing at you, calling YOU the crazy one. Nobody ever would think that could happen; right?

IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.
There are soul less people with no regrets, no conscious and no remorse out there who will devour you if you let them. If you let them, they will also take your last breath from you.

JUST as evil as Ted Bundy, with that babyface and the good ‘reverend’ Mr. Jones….honey and sugar and sweetness will lead you to your doom. I know. I have developed a real bad case of agoraphobia over all this and a few other things entwined. I don’t go out of the house much because of all the threats and things. I just never know when my demise will come. If it doesn’t come from HIM, perhaps from the heart failure condition I now have. Yah, it’s been a long and ‘exhilarating’ road.

I do live in a cave, Truthspeak, and I have for the past almost five years. I am coming out now, as much as I can, now that I have boundaries and that I refuse any more of this in my life.

You have to stay strong in the person you know you are.
They will win every time and that’s nothing wrong with US…but, everything WRONG WITH THEM.

In the end, though, WE ARE THE WINNERS.

Blessings…

Dupey

slimone

It is so interesting how it is about winning and losing. All the good and decent people in my life don’t give a fig about winning and losing. They don’t care what car their neighbor drives, who has the roundest boobs, or most expensive house.

They live authentic lives, and are interested in how amazing the world is, and how much there is to learn and explore.

No spath I EVER met had a REAL zest for living. Just a manic and nearly suicidal obsession to WIN. What a stupid and shallow and violent goal.

Blech!

JustBree

Slim –
So true what you say about living in an amazing world. I remember when I felt that way, some days when I would laugh at the wonder of it all and felt that my heart would burst from sheer joy. I’m sure that I am not alone in feeling that this was the most devastating loss that came from having a relationship with a spath (Or spaths, since none of us seem to be able to stop at one.)

And yes, they must win. I feel more anxiety and fear now than when he was living with me – he had me then and now the realization that I have slipped away is dawning on him. I know you will all say I should block his texts, but they give me insight into where his current thinking is. The key is to never answer, no matter what he might say. In the last couple of weeks he has gone from no contact to a couple of harmless messages, to sarcasm, to a report of finding something of mine that I should come get, to anger, to finding it on my porch this morning, to, “This isn’t like you. Are you ok??” (Like he really cares.) His anxiety is increasing and so is the frequency of his texts. He has never seen this behavior from me and really doesn’t know what to do. My only question/concern is – Will he ever give up or is this what I have to look forward to for who knows how long?

Back_from_the_edge

JustBree: I can relate to what you said about ‘keeping in touch’ with him to ‘know what his thoughts are and where he is coming from’….so relate! It’s a mindset we get trapped into.

I have had a psychopathic stalker for the past ten years. I made the mistake of paying attention to it, in the beginning; that was my mistake. Once it had that foothold on my life, I became doomed. JUST KEEP IGNORING, better yet, BLOCK and then you won’t be bothered…

You need to get to the point where you just block him and not take the messages at all. It is easier that way. Trust me, I know. I went NC five times, until this last time, the sixth, it was a charm. This ‘person’ is very dangerous and very violent and has made threats against my life because I spurned his attentions. So far, this sixth time, so good: the messages and the stalking has only stopped 12 days ago…although I implemented NC over a month ago, this sixth time.

I like to believe that it will stop now, but judging by past behavior, we are only in a ‘lull’ despite my ‘warnings’ to cease and desist.

YOU be careful…if you feel in danger, in any way at all, you go to the local authorities and explain your situation to them and how you are fearful…hear me? Don’t take chances and by keeping in contact with him, in any way at all, is very detrimental to you. Perhaps physically but certainly emotionally and you need to take that tool away from it. Stop being afraid to the point where it is ‘freezing’ you – you have to realize what he is doing to you by continuing with his stalking.

Each spath is different but a criminal psychologist told me once, a couple years ago, that if you just do NOT give them any attention, their interest will dry up and they will move on to their next victim and forget about you. That is the way they are…

Sooner or later they will give up if you just stop giving them the attention. I had, up until a month ago, been trapped inside this vicious cycle. I am HOPING this is the end but they really don’t like ‘letting go’ so make yourself secure and stand your ground. You won’t be sorry if you do. If you really and truly want ‘it’ gone, just ignore it; tighten up your quadrant and stay safe and offer NO attention. If you need ‘assistance’ in keeping safe, ask for it. Do not take any chances.

Mine likes giving a threat and then letting me stew on it. The fear and the doubting is almost as destructive as the actual act itself. It’s the ‘stressing’ and emotional upset they are after. They don’t care about us…they care about losing. There is a huge difference.

So, your question: “Will he ever give up or is this what I have to look forward to for who knows how long?” That is difficult for me to answer. I have been trapped in this for the past ten years. But: no more. I am finished with all of it, even the fear from the threats. NOBODY is stealing my life nor sucking MY SOUL away from me. This is MY LIFE; not it’s.

You just stay safe and stay away from him. Do like I have done, block his texts and his phone number from calling you. Stay away. Even just reading his texts is upsetting to you. It digs it’s way into your eyeballs and wrenches your soul; right? THEN STOP DOING IT. NO ATTENTION. FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO OCCUPY YOUR TIME THAT IS MORE BENEFICIAL TO YOU. Stop wasting your precious energy and life force on this person. I refuse to allow him to take my thoughts anymore and have been disciplining myself to just not care about this and/or give it any attention. I have police protection now and they are like Angels to me..allowing me to live my life in peace.

Remember who you are and what you believe in and stand for. Usually, if they see you mean business, they will stay away, but you have to REALLY MEAN IT and then NEVER break NC….unless they are a coldblooded, psychopath, like mine has been, where he has kept up the stalking and intrusions, the past ten years. You must NOT take any chances and you MUST NOT forget who you are and your value and worth.

I am sorry that you must go through this. Don’t let him keep playing with your mind like mine has done to me. I blocked all phone messages over two years ago now and I have blocked all the texts and emails. There is NOTHING this monster can say that is of any interest to me anymore. And it’s the lack of attention that they dislike the most. Empower yourself. Take back your life, Bree. That is usually enough to make them go away….Just be careful. YOU know ‘it’ better than anyone else.

Dupey

JustBree

Dupey –

Thanks for the pep talk. You’re so right – even just reading the texts throws me off balance because I do let it get into my head, and then all i can do the rest of the day is think of what I want to say. I too have gone NC several times. In fact that’s what his name is in my contact list, “NO CONTACT!!” It has been over a month since I responded to anything, but the anxiety over when he will contact next is growing. Time to block everything. I guess I just thought his interest would dry up more quickly than this – his interest in everything else always did. Lol.

Thank you!

JustBree

Back_from_the_edge

Hi JustBree: yes, even looking at the texts can mess you up and you recognize that; right? Just throw it in the garbage without reading them; block him. If you don’t know, it won’t bother you anymore. I know that is difficult to do, being that you want and/or are driven to keep ‘tabs’, but that is what “IT” is hoping you will do. It’s keeping the abuse going. Just cut it off. Once and for all. Work on yourself and ignore it. It will go away…

Good one: you have him on your list as “NO CONTACT”. hahahaha “IT” needs to NOT be on your list, at all, Lovey.

Right, me too: it has been over a month since he has heard from me by way of ‘cease and desist’ and only about a week and a half since HE stopped stalking. And, “I” have him blocked from everything and he still seems to get through to me, somehow.

Nope, their interest doesn’t just dry up … you have to KEEP IT away from you. I understand that his interest in everything else always did before…hahahaha: I can completely relate. They bore easily and if you make it difficult for them, they will just move on.

You are welcome..if you need me, I am always here and around. I wish you health, happiness and safety, Bree.

Take good care of yourself. Find other things to keep your thoughts on…

Blessings to you ~ Dupey

slimone

Just Bree,

Dupey pretty much said it all! And I agree, totally. He may or may not go away. The more important thing is for you to disconnect in each and every way you can.

TAKE the POWER back. It belongs to you. It is YOUR life we’re talking about here.

Slim

MoonDancer

Dupey,
You be careful. Your x it sounds crazy and dangerous. I dont want to alarm you but 12 days is nothing.
No contact does not mean giving someone the cold shoulder or ignoring them or playing games, no contact means you will never speak, listen or contact this person ever ever again.. It means your done, finished, ka-put…
it means, changing locks, phone numbers to unlisted , most phone providers will change your number free of charge if you tell them your getting harassing calls, no charge, no questions asked.
No contact means you are ready to let go – forever.
No contact is your only weapon and your ultimate salvation. No contact is not easy. When I went no contact I thought I was turning away the love of my life, maybe so, but better to be alive than dead.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

years ago, i was living with a fellow who turned out to be quite dysfunctional, alcoholic and abusive. abused as a child, yada yada. i don’t even want to go back and look at him through the disordered lens. suffice to say, when i left him (running, in the middle of the night), he stalked me for quite a while afterwards, and mounted a pretty serious smear campaign. There were two arson (don’t ask) detectives who really stepped up and tried to and DID protect me, as did my employer and former employer. None of them believed shit that came out of his mouth. Wish i could say the same for the damn lawyers…but anyhooo….

the detectives warned me – if he came into the store i was working in, i had to do whatever i had to to not let him take me out of that store. they showed me what to grab on to and told me to holler like hell (I worked with many people) if he came in and tried to drag me out of there. THEY knew what kind of trouble i was in. I was 20 and i knew nothing. I am grateful to this day for their astute judgement of the situation, and for their ‘influencing’ him to give me back my stuff (something the lame lawyer couldn’t accomplish), and for ‘influencing’ him to leave me alone (something the peace bond (a voluntary restraining order) and beat cops didn’t accomplish).

Back_from_the_edge

My Dears slimone and hens: I am going to answer you both at the same time, if you don’t mind…..

Thanks slim for your vote of confidence. xxoo
It has taken a lot of tried and trued attempts to figure this out and I just want to share what I found has worked for me. I didn’t take a lot of advice I was given and I had to learn the hard way. I had to learn by taking the abuse. I was going to ‘save’ it – ‘help’ it; ‘fix it’; I loved the lie I was being sold…while the whole time, that’s just it: it was a lie and a manipulation. I allowed it to happen by not standing up for myself, thinking I was doing the right thing and it wasn’t at all.

Dear hens: Thank you for telling me to be careful. “IT” IS crazy and dangerous. Unfortunately, I didn’t figure that out for the first five years of our ten year acquaintance. I actually let a violent psychopath that close to me without an inkling all that time. When I started to spurn his attentions, as it were, that is when things got ugly and violent….when the threats on my life started and when I think I actually SAW his head spinning around in circles, a couple of times, if I am not mistaken.

I have basically been ‘hiding out’ the past 2-1/2 years, waiting for the fulfillment of these threats, until it dawned on me that by cutting myself out of life it was only continuing this battle of wills…he was still getting what he wants by threatening me and cutting a lot of life off and away from me, through that control.

I am not going to give him that much importance anymore. I have placed protection around me that leaves absolutely NO DOUBT on my part or on “ITS” behalf, that this security WILL PREVAIL. Make no mistake about that. NO BODY threatens my life and still sits in my living room and has tea, although he has tried that approach on me as well, from time to time.

Yes, 12 days is nothing…the last NC period lasted 9 months until I stupidly BROKE it relaying an important piece of information. It was never ME responding, MOST OF THE TIME but rather HIM STALKING ME….That was my fault, breaking it the last time. I admit that. AT NO TIME FOR NOTHING SHOULD A PERSON BREAK IT. FOR NO REASON. EITHER MEAN IT OR DONT. I HAD EVERY GOOD INTENTION WHEN AND I DID and all it got me was more of the same, so, I look at it like this: WHY SHOULD I CONTINUE TO TAKE ABUSE FROM SOMEONE LIKE THAT? We were not married; never boyfriend and girlfriend, not really, even though THAT was the bill of goods I was being sold. We never lived together or had kids, nothing..I owe him absolutely nothing yet he acted like I owed him everything. Amazing. And when I would not do his beck and call, I was threatened and scorned and put down…oh yes, there are people like this in the world…

I have blocked all the numbers, his and his ‘minions’ and there have been plenty along the way, all strangers that don’t really know me nor I them…they have harassed and stalked me as much as he has. His ‘tribe’ , his ‘worker bees’, which includes just about everyone he runs into and has bedded, most of them he has picked up offline and they are all older and most of them wealthy and/or financially secure….

I have blocked threats to him, through me, that has come my way just by association. Once I pulled his mask off and exposed him for the person I really know he is now, that is when things started to get really ugly. I have a little life left, after my massive heart attack and I really don’t want it filled with all this crap. Life is in serious mode now. I have spent the past 3 years, of the 5 that have been a nightmare – caused by a psychopathic and violent stalker, researching and reading and trying to figure out what this was that has plagued my world…

The last few threats before that 9 months NC was something just like out of a psycho “B” movie, seriously…but even though the stalking continued, it was peaceful except for the constant stalking. I have never really had a time in the past ten years that hasn’t been constant drama and chaos. Filled with ugliness, threats, inconsideration’s and a whole lot of things most movie makers wouldn’t even realize…you know, that “B” class psycho movie genre…that is exactly what it has been like.

A lifetime of non communication wouldn’t be long enough for me now. NOW that I know what this is about and what it is about is control and jealousy. Love and kindness has nothing to do with it. I was ‘targeted’ specifically but the one thing I had going for me was that I didn’t have enough money for him. He is used to having more…having as much as he can get…which is all of it, in control, domination and financially.

I know so much about him, it makes it dangerous for me. But I have a whole city worth of protection which he has came to be acquainted with on several occasions on his escorts out of town. He has threatened judges, lawyers and policing agencies, as well, and is not a very ‘popular’ person. He walks on the fringe too well. Very intelligent when it comes to law and finances. Has told me on a couple of occasions that all women are whores and as long as you bed them well, they will give you whatever you want….

I am not afraid anymore, hens. I am standing tall and strong and firm, NOBODY does to me what he has and then threatens me on top of it because he is afraid he will go to jail. NOBODY. I am not a person to cower but the things I have experienced can never be realized by anyone but myself and every single one was a nightmare. I am not one to usually be ‘afraid’ but this ‘being’ made my blood run cold. It has left me in shock. I was absolutely controlled. Absolutely. I never did anything illegal for him but he captured my soul completely and dominated me for a very long time through intense conditioning and manipulation and once the layers started peeling back for me, that’s when it got ugly; when I started standing up for myself and saying “NO”. I see how Charles Manson got away with controlling his ‘herd’.

Exactly right: No contact means you are ready to let go, forever. And there is no coming back or going back. It’s a final decision. I have made mine and I put “IT” on notice that the stalking and manipulation and contact, in any way whatsoever, from this moment forward is not welcomed and shall be considered criminal stalking and I meant every single word. And I have LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF BACK UP.

NO CONTACT IS the only weapon you have that will save you when you get involved with something like I have. It is not easy. It is difficult, especially when you have been ‘conditioned’ to react and live a certain way, slowly, over time, but you have to realize it for what it is and break free of those chains if you want to have any hope for survival at all. Because, believe me, if you don’t give them what they want, whatever it might be, whether it is ‘winning’ an argument; ‘your money’; ‘your sex’; whatever it is they want from you…if you don’t give it to them, you suddenly become something they hate and want to destroy. These are people who do not let ‘reflection’ of any kind whatsoever into their life. They are obsession driven and they won’t ever change. I have seen evil, firsthand, up close and personal like. Evil does not have a conscious nor remorse.

I can so relate hens: “When I went no contact, I thought I was turning away the love of my life, maybe so, but better to be alive than dead.”
No truer words spoken, my friend.

Love you hens; you hang in there…you so ‘shine’…xxoo

Dupey

MoonDancer

Dupey, I have not endured anything like you write about. I just want you to live free of fear and find some peace and joy. At the same time keep one eye open and a cell phone handy to call for back up. gnite…

Back_from_the_edge

(((hens))) Thank you for your wishes.
I am starting to come out of the ‘haze’ now. It’s been quite a while. Always: one eye open…..

I rest absolutely assured in my back up….

G’Nite, hens….xxoo
Sweet dreams.

JustBree

I finally did it. I blocked him. I didn’t realize until I did it this afternoon (with my daughter’s help) that as long as he was able to call or text me, he still had me. Whether or not I answered was irrelevant because I was still giving him permission to mess with my head. I actually had a hard time blocking him because I was worried how he would feel! Everything I’ve said up until now was only an excuse not to block him. Bless you all for pounding this into my head and bless my wonderful daughter for bugging me all afternoon until I put his number in the little box and pressed submit. I know this doesn’t mean it’s over, but it does put me another step closer.
JustBree

Back_from_the_edge

CONGRATULATIONS JUSTBREE!!!

You have taken the first step to freedom and peace of mind!
I am so very proud of you. I know how difficult it was but don’t give in. Stand your ground and MEAN IT. It’s the only way to take away their power and control over you! Exactly right, you were only allowing him to mess with your head some more!!! Definitely.

YOU WERE WORRIED ABOUT HOW HE WOULD FEEL?
Oh my goodness, we need to toughen you up a little more, Bree…HOW ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL? HOW ABOUT HOW YOUR CHILDREN FEEL?

Right, it doesn’t mean it’s over but you ARE one step closer to regaining your empowerment. BLESS YOU!!!!

You have put a smile on my face this morning knowing you ‘got it’. We are here for you, Bree…..wishing you nothing but all the best and you will always find support here………xxoo

Dupey

Truthspeak

JustBree, good for you!!!! You are 100% spot-on – as long as a door remains open for them, they will remain in our heads. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

At some point, you really will not care how he “feels” about anything – you’ll come to accept that he cannot “feel” the way that other people do. That will be helpful to you, in time.

Brightest healing blessings!

darwinsmom

TOWANDA, Justbree!

You took an important step in the healing path! It is incredibly hard to block someone who made themselves the center of your life for so long. You will soon find out how much easier it does make life: you just don’t need to wonder anymore what they’re doing, whether they’re calling you, what crap they want to tell you now…

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