Today’s New York Times Magazine has an excellent article on the signs of psychopathy in children. It presents a heartbreaking story of parents trying to cope with a “callous-unemotional” 9-year-old, and covers much of the current research on the disorder in children. Very well done.
Read Can a 9-year-old be a psychopath? on NYTimes.com.
Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.
First of all, I think they’ve pretty well disproven that children are not resilient. I believe it’s one of those myths adults like to spin because it rationalizes away the harm that some adults do to children.
Second, the article, and this could have simply been due to the slant that the author gave it, did not address how the people living with these children are impacted. Parents need to deal with people blaming them for bad parenting, the “normal” kids are essentially overlooked because the family is focused on the P child (a classic model for a dysfunctional family dynamic.)
It isn’t the one child’s life who is at stake; it’s the family members around that child as well.
As somebody who has spent most of my lifetime being misguided and misdirected in therapy, because the mental health profession had not yet identified that I had Ps for a mother and sister, I really resent that I went through the abuse that I did and missed so many normal things in life trying to “at least meet halfway” with these people. All the therapy was about, “What’s your part in this? What are you doing?”
What was I doing? Believing the lies that the family situation would improve if I worked hard enough at it.
Call a duck a duck if that’s what it is. At least that way, the treatment will be appropriate for everyone. Some of it may not be pretty, but the majority should end up getting help. Some people are beyond help and we know who they are.
I didn’t pick up any progress being made in this school. The kids were in classes and being taught, but they managed to make their P behavior dominant. The kids did what they were being told, but is that progress? I doubt it. I think they were playing the system, learning what to do in order to get away with more.
I don’t see any difference in that school than requiring two people in marriage counseling to tell the other how their behavior hurts them. For normal people, they might think about it, feel remorse, and change. For a P, you’re just handing them a roadmap on how to hurt the person more. Oh yeah, they love these marriage counseling sessions. They get to put on a big act and they leave with a treasurechest of new ideas on how to hurt the other person more.
So, if I missed it, somebody please tell me where in that article they came right out and said that this school was making progress. What kind of progress?
Hate to label a child? We have so many incidents of children murdering other children or adults and doing lesser crimes. They murder, they know that they murder, they murder because they wanted to see what it was like to kill somebody and/or watch somebody die. What happens to these kids? They get a few years in a juvenile facility and then are released back into society with new names.
In my opinion, the resistance is due to not wanting to accept the truly horrific capabilities of some people.
We won’t label until we are willing to admit that we produce monsters and nothing can be done about them.
Don’t want to label a child too soon? I admit that children change and go through periods, but P behavior falls into a class by itself.
I suspect that a lot of not wanting to label a child too soon is due to the belief that with enough understanding and love, people will change. People are basically good. Some people don’t know that yet (that they’re basically good) so we have to change them to make them aware of all the good that is inside them.
Of all people, those of us here should know how off that belief is.
Good Morning LF. I woke up aware that I had been very judgmental of some of you, last night, even as I proclaimed my own humility. You have my sincerest apologies. I need to stay off line when I am feeling like that.
G1S, Yes, I think you’ve identified the crux of the debate. Whether they can be changed, fixed or modified, in any way. I understand, too, that it might be risky giving these kid’s therapy because they are being handed the tools with which to manipulate. Did I see any progress coming out of the program mentioned in the article? No. Not by the troubled kids. But the simple fact that someone is interested and making an attempt to find out is progress to me.
I maintain an agnostic view on this. I just don’t know.
Skylar, Have you read the short story, “The Ones Who Walked Away From Omalas”, by Ursula K. Leguin? Very good reading for your Girardian study of scape-goating. Not sure how it might work with the psychopathy question, but you might find something. You can probably find it on line.
I re-read about half of, “revelation” last night and will finish reading today. When I woke up this morning I recognized a bit of Mrs. Turpin in me. Ewwwww. But I guess that’s how it works. LOL
My personal belief is that there has has always been sociopathic/psychopathic behavior in human beings – it’s one of those unfortunate aspects of the human condition. I also believe that fact should not, under any circumstances, preclude acceptance that a child that exhibits obvious symptoms of sociopathy/psychopathy can be “cured” or “reprogrammed.”
Certainly, there are instances where strong boundaries and consistent conditions can create a “normal” human being, but this is a rare event. I don’t know if I am just more “aware” of sociopathy/psychopathy because of my personal experiences, but it seems to me that there are more and more people who fit the profile than I could ever have imagined in my wildest nightmares. I work closely with adolescents, pre-adolescents, and college students and I see – literally SEE – sociopathic behaviors in the majority of these kids that extend far beyond narcissism.
I think – for me, personally – I have to call it as I see it and keep my boundaries high and wide for everyone, regardless. And, I don’t believe that there’s “An Answer” with regard to child spathy/psychpathy.
Truthspeak,
I suspect that the estimates that we now have regarding the prevalence of psychopathy/sociopathy are very conservative.
I have mixed reactions to this article. I have raised an at times very challenging son, who is now 18. Currently, he seems to be getting his act together and I cross my fingers that he will be a normal-enough adult. I have been looking for signs of empathy/lack of empathy in him over the years… to try to figure out what/who I’m dealing with.
At no point during any of this, with all of the experts I consulted, therapists, school counselors, etc. did anyone do anything but look for how I (the mother) might be causing the problem: inconsistent discipline, too lenient, helicoptering, too anxious, too controlling, neglectful, “laissez-faire,” etc. Or because of the divorce. Or the ADHD.
No connections were made to his dad’s abusive/violent behavior and any possible genetic connection. The abuse was always viewed by the therapists anyhow as “it takes two” and what I might have done to provoke him. (and I bought that — thanks G1S, for pointing out once again how damaging this type of therapy is!). No one ever suggested a personality-disordered father. Rather, I was the crazy one and he (the dad) was the calm, charming, mild-mannered one, to every single expert we consulted.
Later on I got wise… in the past couple years I dared to suggest to my son’s therapist that I think his dad has a personality disorder… and the therapist told me I have no business or right to diagnose, and besides it is not helpful to our son for me to be trying to “shift blame” to the dad. Rather, I should be looking only at my part in “creating the dynamic.”
I am so sick, sick, sick of all this blaming of me. How many times i have tried to “meet them halfway” (them = someone with a probably personality disorder).
Anyhow… today I am dealing with one of my daughters who is nearly 16, who has a pattern of not taking her share of responsibility in relationships. For example, she is mostly well behaved, but one day “has an attitude” and a teacher questions this attitude with raised eyebrows, so all of a sudden the teacher is “a beatch” and my daughter is behaving as if she has a perfect right to be rude to people and then blame them for reacting to her.
(hard to express that — I just mean that, it is very difficult to raise kids! I cannot write off any of my kids. I will try and try and try until they are adults, hoping I can help steer them in a good direction).
I take responsibility for my parenting, like it sounds like the parents in the article are doing. But there is no one right formula to follow. It takes energy and courage and patience, and blaming parents for extraordinarily difficult children is NOT the way to go.
These difficult kids DO exist, and we do not have the social and institutional structures in place to really deal with them. There is a lack of understanding and support for parents. Sometimes one misguided “expert” can steer the family in a wrong direction that takes years to recover from. A misdiagnoses, wrong prescription, or just barking up the wrong tree and trying interventions which do nothing at best, or worse yet, exacerbate the problem.
It did sound to me a lot like that’s what this summer camp might do: sure, it’s a research study disguised as a summer camp — but might be a training ground for bullies, even as it informs the research and points in directions for new research.
20years, I know a number of parents who had difficult children – my eldest son was “difficult” and finally diagnosed BPD Cluster B.
What I have seen in my own personal experiences, and in those related to me by other parents is what you described: who’s to blame for this kid’s issues? How DARE a parent question a professional? Well, we DARE to because we KNOW the child and have experienced their behaviors. It’s the same when we’re dealing with medical doctors – how dare we tell a physician about our own bodies?
Interventions might have been useful at one time, but in a culture where not caring is lauded as an attribute and REWARDED with cash and celebrity, it’s a moot point, now.
Research is just that: re-searching. I always find it morbidly humorous when reading about “research results” because those results are concocted and controled. Let’s take some information from parents of children who exhibit glaring sociopathic traits – let’s hear what THEY have to say about their experiences in attempting to manage and teach these children. Let’s hear THEIR take on how effective rules and boundaries are. Better yet, let the researchers take these kids into their own homes for a year without ANY safety/security and talk about their experiences at a later date.
Research, my arse! LOLOLOL
Amen, Truthspeak!
Over and over and over I think (and say) that the VOICES of the people in the trenches of relationships with sociopaths (siblings, parents, children (budding ones, there LOL), and also in bullying situations such as school and workplace… it is the VOICES which are missing.
After so many years, I firmly believe I AM qualified to diagnose. No, not diagnose in the sense of I am a licensed board professional who can write prescriptions, but I can — YES — diagnose many of my own illnesses (I am very familiar with my own body and what is normal and when something is “off”) — and I can also — YES — spot the traits and connect the dots and ESPECIALLY I am the one who is around when the mask slips, and I am in the best position to note the patterns which develop over time and may take years to become aware of.
But they would rather not listen to me.
For a long time, their not listening caused me to doubt myself and sow seeds of confusion in me. But not anymore. I feel that I have a right to figure this stuff out for myself. I’m not stupid.
And that is one of the things great about Lovefraud. We are not a stupid bunch of misguided people. We live these experiences and we think about them and we are articulate and can share them with each other and that is GOLD. We can learn from each other. We listen to each other and respond in compassionate, thoughtful ways. No one here tells anyone else that they are stupid or not qualified to figure this out for themselves. This is a really unusually great community.
So as far as raising kids goes… no, I will not write them off until my “job is done” and I get to figure out when that is (I plan to raise them to adulthood and do the best job I can). But I know it is not all up to me. They have other influences in their life besides me — so “blame the mother” is not a game I’m going to play.
And no one really knows what I’m dealing with, except for me.
I know my teenagers are still susceptible to my influence; I see signs that they do take in the information and my “guiding” them… even if they don’t seem to “on the spot.” So it’s a really tough job, but I’ll just keep on with it for awhile.
My heart goes out to every parent dealing with a child/teen exhibiting “difficult behavior.” Because you just don’t know the cause of it. It’s very hard to help/treat/guide if you can’t figure it out. Some things are temporary and situational. Other things are deep-seated patterns, probably highly genetic. And some others might be biological, caused by (possibly cured by) their diet… or meds… but “blame the mother” needs to be retired.
And… this is the day after mother’s day, but just one final thought: during all those times I was (wrongly) blamed, my stress levels, anxiety and guilt feelings increased because of the blaming. I STILL dug in and tried to do my best parenting job (didn’t throw in the towel — this is not a job you get to quit) — but why on earth do people/society want to pile MORE stress on top of an already stressed mother by blaming her; she is doing the best she can with a difficult child? It’s not right.
20,
Oops – you forgot one in this, “Over and over and over I think (and say) that the VOICES of the people in the trenches of relationships with sociopaths (siblings, parents, children (budding ones, there LOL), and also in bullying situations such as school and workplace” it is the VOICES which are missing.”
The courts.
The voices are missing in the courts with the judges and the lawyers.
And they add to the stress, too.