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By | April 10, 2008 19 Comments

On psychological head games and “Nookie” the turtle

Editor’s note: This post was submitted by the Lovefraud reader Aloha Traveler.

Sociopaths often use subtle methods to intimidate their victims. One of the funniest and most absurd manifestations of this tactic came to me in the form of a small stuffed turtle.

I had been on Maui for about six months and was able to get a cheap ticket home to California for a visit with my friends. I was already deep into an abusive and confusing nightmare with the Bad Man. He was twisting up my reality and I needed to be in a place where I knew who I was, with people that knew me well.

The Bad Man agreed to take me to the airport for my departure. As I finished packing and was about to zip up my suitcase, the Bad Man produced a gift from his pocket. It was a small stuffed turtle. He presented it to me stating that he wanted me to have something to snuggle with while we were apart. I am a little too old for stuffed animals but the gesture was sweet and I instinctively knew by this time to make a big deal about his thoughtfulness.

As I started to gush over the gift, he added seriously, “His name is Nookie the Turtle. He can see and hear everything you do.” “Oh. Okay. Well, how nice,” I said, as I turned and tucked “Nookie” into my suitcase. This was one of the those moments where it was undeniable that something was wrong. My inner voice spoke to me. “That isn’t right,” it said… but I still didn’t listen.

These days, I read a lot about the dynamics of abusive relationships. Recently I read that it is common that the victim begins to believe that their abuser has some sort of powers and is all knowing, particularly when it comes to them. The abuser carefully creates this illusion because it helps him/her to control the victim through perceived fear.

A few days ago, I saw The Color Purple on TV and there was an excellent example of this tactic in the movie. Celie, the main character and narrator, is abused by the man called “Mr.” throughout the film. Celie is desperately waiting for a letter from her sister Nettie. Mr. tells Celie that he has “specially rigged” the mailbox so that he can tell if it has been “messed with.” He has done no such thing but she has already been abused, degraded, and terrorized by Mr. and so she believes him. He then catches the mail every day for almost the entire film and hides the letters that her sister faithfully sends over decades. It’s a subtle, tiny piece of the film but it really stood out for me now that I know what I know about abusers.

Here’s another intimidation/control tactic the Bad Man attempted to use on me. Once, several months after I had left the island, he sent me a text message that said, “I had a bad feeling last night. What were you doing at 9:00 pm? I ain’t stupid!” (Well, if you must know, Bad Man, I was watching The Little Mermaid with two small children.) While we were together, he was always calling me “sleazy cheesy pop culture girl” in an attempt to shame me in reference to past sexual relationships. With the text message, he was trying to “catch” me at moving on with my life in a way that I had every right to! Abusers only have to “catch” you once to create the illusion that they know what you are doing at all times. This creates a lot of anxiety in the victim. It gives the abuser power over you and expands their reign of emotional torture over space and time.

Here is a perfect example of how that emotional battering and psychological torture roots deeply in you. One night, at least one and a half years after I had left the island, something popped into my head. I remembered an advertisement I had seen in the back of a magazine for teens. It was for a website called, “DontDateHimGirl.com.” Up to that moment, I had been obsessing nearly 24/7 as to how I might stop Bad Man or warn others about him. I wasn’t sure what he did to me but I knew it was something really bad. I felt powerless to stop him and this caused me to toss and turn many nights. So, I signed on to the site, got the gist of what it was all about and decided to write a post. After a few minutes, my piece was finished and then I hit the button: PUBLISH. The instant the ad posted, I started to feel panic and anxiety. Although my good sense told me it was not possible that the Bad Man would find this ad instantaneously, a part of me was convinced that at that very instant, the Bad Man had found my ad and the email bombs would start to come. My heart raced. I felt shaky and nauseous. My agitated sleep was even more so that night.

Setting verbal traps is another little game that disordered abusers use on their victims. Here’s a simple one a friend of mine experienced with Bad Man Jr. (She had her very own BM.) They were driving through a small mountain resort town. As they passed a restaurant he oh-so-casually asked, “Have you ever been to that restaurant?” She confirmed, “Yes.” His tone suddenly shifted. “With who? Did he PAAAAY?! You are SUCH-A-USER!!!”

I remember when she told me about this charming moment, we began to discuss how we both felt like nothing was safe that came out of our mouths. They were always twisting up our words, and attacking us with them. And another favorite was that they often lamented angrily about all the money “WASTED” on us. It was like they had to reinforce how unworthy we were of being treated nicely, so that way they could justify their Bad Man-ness. We laughed because we agreed that both of these men were cheap but always acted like they we treating us like queens. The Bad Man was always trying to convince me that I needed to be grateful for his crumbs of kindness. “Any woman would want a man like me!”

Do you recognize that twisting of reality?

To this day, I don’t know why I was so susceptible to words. Back then, my thoughts were like this: If someone says it, it must be so. And so, around and around I went, my head spinning and grasping to reconnect with reality as it seemed to spin farther and farther away.

In case anyone out there is wondering whatever happened to “Nookie” I will tell you. There has been no Nookie in bed for a long time.

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Ariadne

Wow, this post brought up a lot of anger. My stepmom used to do this to me all the time. Adding to the fact that as a kid you think all adults are all-powerful, I was scared to death of her. I was afraid to do anything anywhere because I was afraid she would find out about it.

But now, I see her as she is. A middle aged housewife with no hobbies except spending money and causing problems for other people. The fact that she will never be able to love the family she has makes her seem so pathetic. She doesn’t have any friends because she can’t keep them around. I mean, my dad is pretty well off, but she will never really be happy with that. Sometimes I feel like I hate her, but when I think about how emotionally bankrupt she is, it just reminds me that she couldn’t be ok on her own without someone to manipulate. We, as true humans, can. We can feel happy within ourselves and love ourselves in a way they could never dream of.

I love that movie, The Color Purple. It is one of my favorites. Watching the beginning is tough, when she is being terrorized by Mr. But I love it because at the end she finally learns about herself, what she wants. When she finally stands up to her husband and leaves him, she says something that really stuck with me.
Responding to his insults, “I may be black, poor, a woman, I may even be ugly- but dear God I’m here. I’m here.” We all have a right to be treated with respect and loved just because “we’re here.”

peggywhoever

Aloha:

I am still fearful of my “Bad Man” although he has never verbally or physically threatened me. Yesterday I had special fraud investigators at my home (for the 3rd time). I believe they will begin an active investigation on him soon (he has fraudulently taken well over a million dollars, perhaps several million). But I find myself today in a state of anxiety and up at 4 a.m.

I understand your feeling that your Bad Man had special powers. Sometimes I am paranoid that my Bad Man can get into my computer (I have seen there are techniques where you can send a “picture” to someone and when they open it, you are enabled to view every keystroke on their computer). Or I am paranoid to talk on my house phone regarding personal discussions (particularly regarding him) in case he has my phone tapped. I know there is a lot of spyware out there (GPS systems, even tapping into a person’s cell phone) and this freaks me out sometimes. Not rationally. Not analytically. But I still have a fear in the back of my mind that he is going to “catch” me for exposing him and that I will then experience his wrath…and this is 7 months after he has been gone.

Thanks for the great article, Aloha.

Ox Drover

Dear Aloha,

A very moving post–thank you for sharing. I’m glad to know I’m not the only one with no “turtle” in my bed! LOL

Peggy,

I can very much relate to your paranoia–I even checked to see if my new cell phone had GPS location capability—it does not.

When I went into hiding, I made sure that the “paper trail” was not pointing directly to me with car registration, and such things as that. I learned a great deal about how to “hide” in plain sight, yet be invisible—after all I wasn’t hiding from the police or the FBI, or even debt collectors, but from someone with access to only public records (at most) and possibly a private investigator doing a “routine” (and cheap search).

Now that I am more back to being myself, and seeing things a bit more logically, I am back home. I still haven’t decided if I will stay here if and when the two Ps that were trying to kill me get out of prison, or not..will take that one day at a time. I am however VERY cautious…no longer “paranoid” as such, but realistically keeping in mind that they tried to kill me once, they might do it again, but also realizing that their resources are fairly limited.

I am not alone here (physically) and have security and self defense measures in place and would not hesitate to defend myself. I guess the only “change” is that I no longer live TERRIFIED from every rattle of every window pane by the wind. I live conscious of the capability they have, and CAREFUL but I am no longer living in terror.

What has changed? My attitude is all. “The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man but one.” I don’t want to live my life like a nervous rabbit near a colony of cats afraid of every noise and always looking terrified over my shoulder.

Hang in there Peggy, and I do hope for your sake they put this guy away. Just be careful and cautious, but don’t live your life in terror! ((hugs))))

peggywhoever

Oxdrover and Free:

The S knows exactly where I live, because I have been in the same home for 11 years, and he lived with me for 3. I immediately changed the locks when he left. I am not in constant fear, but I am cautious. He is VERY computer literate, and still had cable internet access AFTER he moved out (registered at my home with a modem here), supposedly to keep his same e-mail address. I had to insist to the cable company to disconnect his internet connection as it was MY home. (Initially they told me they could not do this because it was HIS account…we both had separate internet connections). He also had an alarm system here (he had VERY expensive furniture and vehicles…probably $50K+ in furniture and 2 vehicles worth $60K – $80K each). When he moved out, the alarm system was still connected, but he put it “on hold” or so that the alarm company would not call the police; he also had REMOVED THE BATTERY from the basement door, so if someone accessed that, the alarm would not have gone off.

I have befriended his ex-wife, his ex-best friend, his ex-business partners and his sister. Many that he has betrayed and tossed aside have become advocates for justice.

My fears involve his past history of assault (jailed for this at least twice but was not charged due to a good attorney), violence toward ex-wife (hitting and choking), “accidents” his ex-wife had (1) being hit in the back of the head with equipment he loaded into her vehicle…when she pushed the brakes, the equipment hit her severely enough to cause bleeding from her ears, she was knocked out, and has had permanent memory loss and (2) overmedicating her. Also, he had a “friend” who went scuba diving with him years ago and the guy “never came back up”. He told this story to his former best friend 3 times, and laughed about it each time. Why would someone laugh about this unless they had caused the “accident”?

Also, 12 years ago he pointed a shotgun at his sister’s head over a disagreement. He is still out-of-control on construction job sites, getting into a fight within the last 8 months at age 54. I have had special investigators (won’t mention the 3 letters) at my home 3 times now; he is potentially in A LOT of trouble for embezzling well over a million dollars, and potentially much more. He cheats BIG TIME on his taxes and is doing money laundering. He is going to be absolutely LIVID when they audit him and (hopefully) this goes to trial and he will go to a federal prison for 5 years. He will know where they got a lot of their information, and if this goes to trial I will have to testify against him.

He tends to be very vengeful and has sued his sister, nephew, former best friend, and former business partners. He actually tries to hide behid the law…it’s absurd because HE is so lawless. When he was moving out he twice threatened to call the police, first because I asked him to sign a document to prove I had returned his jewelry to him, and then when I said it was taking too long (about 8 hours into the move) and he had refused to pay me rent, coordinate repairs for damages he had caused, and refused to move my furniture to their original locations (it had been moved to make room for his).

He is very sue-happy. He has told me before he is going to “choke” someone out (whomever he currently had a conflict with) and he also threatened to burn down his ex-best friend’s house (a beautiful Victorian mansion). He used to ride with motorcycle gangs in his late teens and early 20s although he has been a business owner for several years. He said he had contacts to “take someone out”.

I also found out that during his late teens and early 20s he was a drug dealer. Like all the other S’s, no conscience. I have been EXTREMELY vocal in exposing him for the monster he is, and have tried to warn people not to invest with him, because he will steal every dime. I have tried to expose him for the LIAR that he is; I have accumulated a wealth of documentation that proves what he has done. His entire life, he has aggressively overpowered, controlled, manipulated, conned, lied and cheated his way into people’s lives, hearts, and pocketbooks. He is extremely convincing in his lies and his web of tactics and schemes. Then he has coldly, calculatedly, and cruelly disposed of them once they no longer serve a purpose for him. His own sister said of him, “I love him but I don’t like him very much. He is a dangerous man. Get a restraining order”.

I truly believe that it will be me who has the potential to finally “bring him down” or send him to jail. And he will not like that, nor me. Not one bit. He used to say, “If I tell you, I’ll have to kill you” as if it was a joke. I’m not so sure it was. I believe he is not above having someone killed…he’s too smart to do it himself, and wouldn’t want to get his hands dirty. He is very clever in his treachery.

I used to be technically challenged (adept at using software, but not knowledgeable about networks, spyware, accessing someone’s accounts). But I have gained much knowledge regarding what is theoretically “possible”, and it is astounding.

Free, I also have 2 pages of a book written, and already have the title. Whether I actually continue with this, I am not sure. But he has done (and is still doing) some things which would make a good made-for-tv movie. Thank you for the compliment about the poetry, expressing the feelings has been very healing. Part of me would really like to write (the book) but part of me hopes I am SO over him, that I never feel like I have to. I guess some of it may depend on what happens in the next couple of years…the investigation could take 6 months to 5 years. The new girlfriend is buying him a million-dollar-plus home, no kidding, within 4 months; and that would be dramatic for the book, because of his big ‘fall’ from the expensive mansion to the little cell. Because he has been doing investments and money laundering out of the country, it could be a lengthy investigation.

I pray for peace and safety for all of us.

Thanks for sharing these, Aloha – particularly the verbal twisting. I have some things I wish to share that happened but don’t want to put them here. One of them I will, just because I desperately need an opinion or twenty about this, and maybe you guys can help:

One morning shortly after the last falling-out with the Wolf, my mother was frantically calling here. I have Internet VOIP phone. She called three times and left three messages, nearly hysterical, because my dad was falling over and losing control of his bladder and bowels.

I was asleep upstairs and never heard the phone, but voice messages went to my email and you could play them in there.

When I got up, I came to the computer to visit the few sites I visit. One is a public message forum he knew I went to. At that site, there is a place for people looking to romantically reconnect with other people.

My mom’s calls came at 10:10, 10:17, 10:20, something like that. At 10:40 there was a message printed at that site. It was titled: Call Your Mother!

I opened it and it said: “You know who you are! Call your mother!”

I read it around 11 a.m. Somehow, I felt that it was him and I looked over at my phone base. The phone was in my daughter’s room. I found it and saw there were messages. That’s when I heard my mother’s screaming.

I am convinced that message at that site he knows I go to was from him. There are never messages like that on there. Always stuff like, “I met you here…” or “I miss you so and so”.

If it was him, it means he is somehow tapped-into either the phone or computer or both.

This was months ago. I’ve felt it was too crazy a story to share here, that nobody would believe me, that I was imagining things. I felt terrorized. He is my own personal terrorist. That’s not my only story, but the only one I’ll post here.

Does anyone think it could really have been him posting that message, or probably just coincidence and I’ve imbued him with “special powers?”

Ox Drover

Orphan,

First off, I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE CRAZY. LOL Yes, that sort of coincidence does happen and we do “imbue them with special powers”— BUT, THAT SAID,

“just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean someone is not out to get you.”

I’m not technically savy enough to tell you what is possible and what is not, I know there are lots of people here who can give you the answer to that, though.

A lot of the “vandalizm” that the Trojan Horse P did, small things that could have been “accidents” but weren’t, were what tipped me off. He locked my donkeys up without food or water in a small pen, and there is no way the gate closed or latched accidently—and no one else in the world would they have let do that, as he used to feed them and was their “friend.” This happened when I was already fled from home but came periodicly to check on livestock.

I have no doubt from your description that your Bad Man is dangerous, vengeful, etc. or that he very well could plan and carry out a physical attack or worse. While I admire you and the others for fighitng him, I also know the DANGER that whistle blowers can get into as well, especially with psychopaths. BE SAFE AT ALL COSTS. I don’t want to read that your tombstone read “Well, she was right, he was dangerous.

BTW, how is your dad now?

Thanks, Ox-D. Dad is 86. He was in and out of the hospital from last October to January a total of 6 times but is doing better now that they realized he has a Parkinson’s like disease that makes liquid go partly to his lungs rather than stomach when he is drinking any water or coffee. That gives him repeated bouts of pneumonia.

Both my parents are unwell. Surprised they’re doing as well as they are. They are quite resilient but I worry a lot, still. Things were at their worst with them in 2006, and now it’s just a slow, steady decline. We’ve all adjusted now to this new reality, but when the P came back it was all in the state of flux.

For months I have looked back on that “call your mother!” memory with a shudder. The cop I do some side work for I did tell the story to, because he happened to call right around that time and he said: You don’t believe for a moment that was a coincidence, do you?

But you know, two minds on it – yes, partly I do – no, mostly I don’t. It wasn’t an isolated incident, this act. Other things, like my windshield being cracked straight across the middle in my driveway one night between 1 a.m. and 10 am the next morning. I thought maybe the acorns dropping that week last fall hit right in the perfect spot. The windshield replacement guy thought I was an idiot for thinking that…but you know what?

The opposite thought is unthinkable to me. It would make me too afraid to leave the house and would make me really believe he was capable of something worse. I can’t believe that about someone I loved, even if I do believe some bad things about him now. Things are quiet now, again. I suspect he’s moved on to another victim, thankfully.

What did you do when these things were happening – did you attribute it to coincidence and accident at the time? If so, was it because the other thought was too frightening?

Ox Drover

Orphan,

Your comment about “I just can’t believe”…”the opposite thought is unthinkable to me. It would make me too afraid to leave the house”

Read your post over–from my standpoint as an outsider.

That sounds like denial to me. BELIEVE IT. Sure, it makes you afraid…but being afraid when someone is out to get you is a SURVIVAL TACTIC. Being unafraid when someone is out to get you is DENIAL and will/can result in your injury or worse.

If I had NOT BEEN AFRAID, and therefore, fled my home, I would most likely be DEAD. I was very much NOT wanting to believe, very much wanting to STAND AND FIGHT. In fact, my son D didn’t sleep at all between dark and daylight (he didn’t tell me) but was standing guard over me in the hours of darkness for nearly a month—I couldn’t understand why he was so tired all the time, He was only sleeping between day light (about 6 a,.m.) and 9 or 10 O’clock—

I realized with not knowing when the attack might come, we couldn’t defend ourselves (especially with me CRAZY at the time) My house is not a fort, and I would have been here alone during the summer. I’m not a quitter, and I am a fighter if need be, but good sense told me to get the heck out of dodge.

Since my home is on the same property where my mother and the Trojan horse P were living (he was her live in caregiver) but my home isn’t visible from hers, I sneaked out carload by carload, and left the dogs in their pens until the last load. I had bought the RV and had it set up where I was going to stay, in a recreational area bout 35 miles away but where a new RV being set up wouldn’t draw attention. I came back every other day during the middle of the day always with someone, and always armed.

I think I had him confused, because it was obvious from the small vandalism that he had been over here (water taps left on outside etc) that he had been here, but my dogs were in their pens, different lights were on at different times, vehicles had been moved, no mail in rural box (I had gotten a PO box) different things on front porch, etc. so he wasn’t sure why he never found me home, as it looked like I lived there…and was still staying there. The last thing I took when I had everything important (papers etc) was the dogs, and of course then he knew I was gone. I had worried about him hurting them, but Iknew as long as they were there that he would think I was still living there. My mom had no idea I was gone, and neither did my son C who was in the FOG, but I was SAFE.

My home is precious to me, but I realized that NOTHING is worth anything if I am DEAD. Leaving also gave me the time to start to heal, to get out of the CRAZIES. I needed that.

Now that I am back, a couple who are friends of mine and live in their RV full time use my place as their base, and they have dogs, as well as my dogs, and a video surveillance set up,, etc. and we are ALL ARMED at ALL TIMES.

At this time I am not really too paranoid as my P son and the Trojan Horse Psychopath are still in prison, the DIL is out of jail, but I’m not worried about her by herself, plus she has no transportation. or weapons and DOES NOT want to go back to jail/prison. If she violates probation she could go back for 10 years. Even the thought makes her shake.

But anyway, my point is that you need, I think, to look at the REALISTIC POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENCE in the P. Thinking you could not have loved someone who would do such a thing is like me thinking I could not have given birth to a murderer—I DID. My X-BF P DID burn down the Victorian home of his X-girlfriend, while he was courting me! No legal proof, but no doubt about it.

Acorns didn’t break your windshield—a human hand did. Listen to the guy who put the new one in. He should know.

If you don’t want to carry a gun, or don’t know how to use one, get a can of OVEN CLEANER SPRAY–it is actually a very powerful and good defense weapon…spray for the face if you are in danger. Get the kind that STINKS. It is better than pepper spray, as when it gets into their eyes, nose or mouth it causes horrible pain and they couldn’t go after you no matter how drugged up they were or how bad they wanted you.

Some areas a Tasser gun (which shoots electrical contacts and shocks them immobile) is legal, in other areas it isn’t. Personally, if I ever have to use a defensive weapon I don’t want to just piss’em off. I try not to live in TERROR or FEAR, but at the same time I am CAUTIOUS and REALISTIC about the threats and don’t take any chances. I still have the RV and it is packed, stocked with food and fuel, and I am ready to go on an hour’s notice if I have to.

I actually would sell my home and move, but due to my home being included in the family trust, I can’t sell it until after my mother passes away, and I don’t have enough money to buy another home somewhere else—so the RV will work until then. However long that is. I don’t even have to go that “far” geographically to be “hidden” there are recreational areas all around me and I have friends living near all of them that have a place to park my RV for free, so the amount of “distance” isn’t a big thing, it is just being “unavailable” to them or vulnerable to attack. I also now, in addition to the outside dogs, the place, and his hearing is VERY ACUTE and he lets me know if there is anyone on the place on foot or in a vehicle.

Orphan, these people play marbles “for keeps” and I have come to realize that self preservation sometimes means that you have to face some awful truths and that is that these people can KILL. Look at Laci Peterson…O J’s wife…and the thousands of other women that couldn’t imagine that their husbands, the fathers of their children could kill. Not ALL Ps are killers but some of the “smoothest” one ARE. BE CAREFUL and BE SAFE. (((hugs))))

Wow, OxD, I can’t imagine how you stay so strong, but it’s clear that you do. You are amazingly strong because I would be in the bin if half those things happened. I wouldn’t have to “prove” I wasn’t crazy….because I would BE crazy.

Frankly, I don’t have the energy it requires to spend all that time wondering what he might do. I don’t think he’s going to do anything, anymore. That was last fall/early winter.

By now, he’s moved along and, more importantly, I have moved on.

I can’t allow myself to think he or anyone else has “infiltrated” my computer or personal life. Not really as defense of him (but maybe like you say I’m in denial) but in defense of my sanity and boundaries. It would be too big an emotional violation and paralyzing. It’s quiet now; no hang-up calls, no unknown name/numbers, no weirdness. I think it’s finally finished.

rperk6069

I am also leary about telling anyone the things that had happened to me because I wondered time and again if it was me who was crazy. For instance: On two different occasions, my tire had suddenly come off while I was driving. Very dangerous. All bolts were sheared. The first instance, I was driving 60 mph, the speed limit went to 45 and so on coming up upon a stop light. When I was slowing down for the red light, the vehicle started to shudder, made it thru the light and pulled into a gas station, just as I was pulling in, there goes the tire. Could not imagine it coming off going 60 mph, also, I have a SUV which would have rolled. Fixed the tire then moved on. Second time, maybe 6 months later, in a snow storm, going 35-40 mph, there goes a tire, same thing, all bolts were sheared off. Then it clicked in, it may have been him. I say “may” because I cannot prove he did it. He had told me numerous times that he drove by my house, was going to knock but didn’t. He would tell me how he had seen me driving, or had seen me at a store or some other place. He had been checking up on me, or stalking me which was funny because the whole time I had been seeing him, I found out later, he had been sleeping with at least 2 other women. Why would he feel the need to follow me around when he had other women? The relationship was very sick anyway. I thought he was this charming, handsome man who I was attracted to, he always said he cared alot about me but was afraid of commitment and never “claimed” me as his girlfriend. I stayed thinking, he is a nice guy who just fell on hard times (he had been in and out of jail for all kinds of things and told me he had changed) I thought he needed someone to give him a chance. I thought I could be HIS knight and shining armor. He used that. He would want sex, and within 10 minutes he would make some excuse and be gone with me crying my heart out wondering why I kept putting up with his treatment of me. I call it “hit and run”. This is where my shame continues to hold on to me. I KNEW better, I knew he was treating me like crap, but I could not manage to stay away from him. What’s up with that? I had never had anyone treat me so bad before and thought I would never let anyone treat me so cruelly. He has my phone number and still tries to call occasionally, but he has no idea where I live. I am hoping to keep it that way.

Ox Drover

I know that there are some people who have been In jail/prison who have “reformed” and I know that there are some people who have been addicts who have “reformed” and are clean and sober—BUT that said—it still makes me wonder about them.

I also know people who have been “clean and sober” for 20+ years and show up at every AA meeting in the world, but they are still psychopaths and will stab you in the BACK for fun!

I have a dear dear friend who has been married 3 times—all 3 ARE CLEARLY psychopaths and I know this for a FACT, not just his word, but most guys who have been married 3 times are NOT good risks—

rperk, your wheel coming off twice is NOT an accident, if the lug nuts are loosened where the wheel moves on the nuts, it will eventually sheer them off.Even if one or two are loose the wheel cant move, so they ALL had to be loosened. The man tried to kill you, and your guardian angel kept that from happening! Not only that, your tire coming off could have caused MULTIPLE DEATHS not only yours. It is only God’s grace that it didn’t happen.

I am beginning to think that there are no EX-convicts. While maybe only 20% of convicts score high enough on the check list to “qualify” for the P diagnosis, there are many of them that just “miss” qualifying. I would almost bet that 75% of them or more have P qualities and traits enough to make them not “suitable” for trust of ANY kind by a “normal” person.

I am beginning to be very leery of people with “bad track records” of any kind…multiple marriages, short term relationships, anyone who had cheated on their spouse, anyone who has stolen, anyone who “seriously” drinks or does illegal drugs—no matter how they say they have “reformed”—why take a chance? The odds are against it working. I’ll play the “odds” that someone who has ever gone to prison isn’t a good risk.

RPERK, the “why” we stay with them has a lot of answers, and I think that you were trying to “rescue’ him. (fix him)

Quote: “I thought I could be HIS knight and shining armor”

Any time we have that “fuzzy” feeling that a guy just needs someone to “be good to him” and he will be all fixed, it is a signal to us that we do NOT need to get involved with this creep. Just because you pick up a snake and take it home and love it and are good to it, it will NOT grow fur and become a puppy and love you back.

I’ve done the same thing with people, and tried to “help” them, but it can’t be done. It will bite you in the a$$ EVERY TIME. 100% of the time. My X-FIL who was I think a P had a good saying though,

“you can give people things, but you can’t help them.”

rperk6069

OxDrover,
Thank you for your wisdom. I can use all the information and help I can get. Years ago, when this whole MESS started, and my friends were still talking to me, one of them told me, “He is a psychopath, get away!!!” She also told me words of wisdom “It is too bad you have encountered a psychopath, but from now on…you will be able to recognize one right away and will literally run in the opposite direction”. I am hoping that is true and that she is right. Especially when I still have thoughts about the SBPOS, even after all he has said and done to me.

rperk6069

OxDrover,
Thank you for your wisdom. I can use all the information and help I can get. Years ago, when this whole MESS started, and my friends were still talking to me, one of them told me, “He is a psychopath, get away!!!” She also told me words of wisdom “It is too bad you have encountered a psychopath, but from now on…you will be able to recognize one right away and will literally run in the opposite direction”. I am hoping that is true and that she is right. Especially when I still have thoughts about the SBPOS, even after all he has said and done to me.

Ox Drover

rperk,

Well, my “wisdom” if I have any was EARNED THE HARD WAY, BECAUSE IT TOOK ME MANY ENCOUNTERS WITH THE Ps to get the LESSON. I seemed to trade one for another– The only one I actually “handled right”pretty much from the start was my P-bio father and I was NC with him, though at the time I ddint’ know what a psychopath was, I just knew I didn’t want anything to do with him any more. I grieved the loss and the abuse for years though.

NOW I can I think recognize the red flags and see them wave, and will RUN…but whatever the COST the lesson is WORTH it! if it protects us in the future. IMHO. (((hugs)))

FreeBird

rperk6069,

OxDrover couldn’t have said it better, when she says that one of the MAIN REASONS we stay with these creeps, keep trying, regardless of all the evidence around us, is because we “think that we can rescue them” …. fix them …. mend their troubled soul/heart, etc. Problem is, though, that the entire time that we are on our “quest”, we are so focused on it that we don’t/can’t see anything else…..or better yet, we refuse to see it.

In the meantime, Mr. Parasite is already gaining ground on you…..not loving you….GAINING something FOR HIMSELF…AND ONLY HIMSELF (financially, physically, sexually, etc). While you are following through on YOUR WORDS with ACTIONS to prove YOUR LOVE, COMMITTMENT (all to his benefit), HIS WORDS ARE LIES…..thus, NO ACTION….at least, NOT TO YOUR BENEFIT.

In my relationship with the S, he always said “I JUST WANT TO MATTER” and “I’VE NEVER MATTERED TO ANYONE”.

Translation:

I WANT YOU TO SERVE ME
I WANT YOU TO DO AS I SAY (don’t you DARE CHALLENGE ME and/or MY OPINIONS/INTELLIGENCE
I WANT A FREE RIDE TO LIVE OF YOU
I WANT TO ALIENATE YOU FROM YOUR FRIENDS & FAMILY
I WANT TOTAL “PRIVACY OF RELATIONSHIP” …. SO THAT I CAN CONTROL YOU….(and nobody else would know what HELL I am putting you through)
I WANT TO AMPLIFY/EXAGGERATE EVERY LITTLE THING I DO, to make YOU FEEL THAT YOU AREN’T DOING ENOUGH (continuing his manipulation of getting EVEN MORE from you – you continue to TRY HARDER)
I WANT/WILL DISTORT EVERY SITUATION, TO MY BENEFIT….ALWAYS (and to your detriment)
And:
YOU (Victim) WILL NEVER MATTER, ONLY I (S.O.B) WILL….period.

I will confess (as many of us have/will) that these signs are there VERY EARLY ON in the relationship….our inner voice is yelling at us, saying “WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?” and “GET THIS S.O.B OUTTA HERE NOW!”….. BUT, we are not finished “fixing” yet…..MISSION INCOMPLETE. So we keep at it…..and so do they….keep feeding our “need to fix” with daily manipulation and extorsion of our hearts/souls/body/minds…..and bank accounts.

This is Day 16 of being FREE. While I continue to have NC (at all), S is trying to get “through to me” with public posts on other website forums (wilderness/canoeing expeditions/camping websites). Of course, other forum members have no idea of our break-up, so he continues to post as if we are still together….decorating each post with many words of previous fun/adventure/challenges that we enjoyed together……ABSOLUTELY AMAZING…..and SICK.

To him, the GAME IS NOT OVER…..HE MUST WIN. Therefore, his attempts to manipulate me will continue. The funny thing though, is that when I do see his pathetic ways, it just makes me want to “spit at the computer screen” (didn’t mean to be gross here – just an expression). I KNOW that he is trying to pull on my emotional strings…..and honestly, it really does not phase me one bit. With my eyes openned wide, I just shake my head and say “you’re so F&%$en pathetic”. Then, if there is anything interesting on the forum, I will read other peoples posts and skip over ALL/ANY of his…..

Basically, I AM NOT INTERESTED and could CARE LESS about ANYTHING that he has to say.

In fact, even though he was the one to introduce me to the wilderness/canoe expeditions, I plan to buy my own canoe and either solo or find another single woman to go on my next trip in May/June 08. It will be my birthday gift to MYSELF.

I will add, though, that nothing can be any better/bigger of a gift, than what I have ALREADY GIVEN MYSELF; MY FREEDOM…MY LIFE.

rperk6069

Freedom is so very important, I have not seen him in over a year, but my feelings and thoughts are what I am having to work on now to get that ultimate freedom from him. The ball is in my court, I know. I just have to get over the self anger I have held onto for what I have allowed. That has been difficult for me. It does help quite a bit reading stories that are so like mine, I don’t feel so alone. It is almost a sad relief to know that other kind, caring, loving, generous women are out there who fell into the same kind of trap because of their loving, nurturing nature, but have moved beyond that and are doing so well. There is hope in healing no matter how slow it can be.

alohatraveler

LilOrphan.

About the mystery post. If it’s the site that I am thinking of, I don’t think it was your guy. I see odd posts all the time on there and for some reason, people like to post messages like that, that could reach anyone. BTW… what are you doing on that site?! NO MORE INTERNET DATING! HAHAHA. I haven’t been on that site in quite awhile but when I am there, I am hunting for the Bad Man. He has been quiet for several months now. He is probably torturing some woman right now… or he’s in jail. Wouldn’t that be nice? I enjoy NOT seeing his distrubing ads anyway.

I did not know this topic would bring up so many stories of people in fear for their lives. I never felt this. The Bad Man is too cheap to fly to the mainland to bother me.

I did have fears. He was always attacking everything I said and trying to catch me at the most minute indescretion… any shred of evidence that was the horrible sleeze he insisted I was.

Honestly, I don’t know why I put up with that… must have been that shiny hook I swallowed at the beginning.

Aloha: It wasn’t a dating site, but it was the site you mentioned in another post, only geographically different. And there are weird things there, but never anything that pointed.

I didn’t react. As Free says, they only do things to get a reaction from you. And honestly, I’m pretty secure that he’s moved on to torture someone else, either new or a recycle, like me.

By the way, after the “disconnect” (can’t call it a break-up because he never really was together with me, just me with him), someone was following me around at that same site in the opinions sections writing posts responding to my various commentaries, saying “I love you” in them. The whole experience just kind of freaked me out on the heels of the windshield being broken and other weird things going on.

Confusing and torturing your sense of reality is the one thing all P’s seem to have in common, particularly when they think they’ve “lost” something. That’s why I thought it was him.

He liked to play with my reality simply by changing the way he treated me or what he said to me: “I love you/I don’t love you/I never loved you/Marry me/I’m lying/there’s nobody else/so what if I do like her/you’re wonderful/all women are liars.”

Knowing I believed in his words and actions, fully, and that they would keep me off-balance.

You guys know the drill, I suspect.

Ox Drover

In the book I am reading now, about assessment of the risk of violence from someone (a great book by the way) the author talks about two kinds of violence in a way that makes absolute sense to me (he uses an analogy and I think in analogies)

Let’s say you have a cat and the neighbor’s dog gets into your kitchen and corners the cat. Imagine how that cat will react. FEAR! Hair erect, eyes focused, back arched, ready to fight or die! The cat is intent on violence. AFFECTIVE VIOLENCE

Now, go to the next day and the cat is stalking a bird. Notice that the cat is slinking along, eyes focused, hair down, quietly moving. He is intent on violence, PREDATORY VIOLENCE. Notice how cool and calculating he is, no rage and no emotions, just focused to do violence.

Go back to the scene in the kitchen too. Would you go pick that cat up while he was in the affective violent mood? No, because he would transfer his fear and anger toward the dog to YOU and chances are you would get bitten and scratched.

In the hunting predatory violence, you could go pick the cat up and suffer no harm.

Ps can be either kind of violence, and many times the predatory, COLD CALCULATING kind of violence is carried out by them. They are also very capable of the instant rage-induced violence that flares and dies down, but they are also very capable of the predatory violence that can last for years.

Most of “us” are only capable of the affective violence induced by FEAR or GREAT ANGER, but it doesn’t LAST LONG. I know for a fact that if I am backed into a corner, that I would come out fighting like that cat, capable of ANYTHING even homicide to get out of the corner rather than stand there and die at the attacker’s hands. But I have little or none of the predatory violence in me that I am aware of, though I admit that at times I have thought about revenge, but I control that impulse, where the P has little control over his impulses.

He is not necessarily “impulsive” (acting rashly without thought or planning) but doesn’t exercise control over his impulses for revenge etc.

However, I have learned not to put anything “beneath” them, and to be cautious, because I do know that they in some ways have great patience in seeking their revenge for slights they imagined or injuries you did to them years ago. They are like elephants, they “never forget.” Well, neither do I!!!

I won’t live in terror, but I sure don’t let my guard down either. I will keep my “P-dar” focused. “Know your enemy” and don’t underestimate him is a good way to live once you have encountered the Ps.

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