By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Eva
I’ve been eading what you wrote about their inconsistent behavior and how they mirror what we do.
Every day I think about all the different things I saw. He’d withhold sex, avoid me, then text me constantly, then be too busy, then come running to see me, hold my hand and hug me, tell me deep secrets, sleep with another woman, it was all jumbled all together and made absolutely no sense.
He looked different day to day, his behavior took big swings (constant masturbation, almost compulsive) to zero sex and back again…..
Then talking to him, he’d lie about one thing and tell the truth about another, totally inconsistent……
I still don’t know who the hell that guy is (was). It’s so bizarre it’s breathtaking.
Superkid
actually that should be:
http://peterfox.comau/family_triangles.htm
Sorry bout that.
Well the link still doesn’t work. Shiat. It’s entitled triangle and triangulation in families and relationships. Hope you find it.
Superkid – I can so relate to ALL that you said. Every word except the hand jobs – though maybe I just never witnessed it – he rarely wore pants (YUK)
Kim-thanks. I will look that up. I read some other things that I googled on triangulation, dysfunctional families and adult children of Narcissistic parents. It all describes my life and what happened as a child and what I am going through now. OMG-I almost started crying when I read some of it. One particular article said to handle them exactly like you and Oxy are saying-but using non-lovefraud terms. I’m blown away by it.
I am going to try not to worry about the neighbor. She and I seem to have so freakin much in common, that after I started reading, I am wondering if she was raised in the same manner in which I was. We haven’t talked hardly at all about our family’s yet but she, like me is the oldest daughter. Her behavior tells me that it may be possible and that’s why the friendship is progressing slowly. We both seem to have drawn up some pretty tight boundaries and she, like me is wound up about people crossing them. Both of us are single and we both spend all of our time alone. That is a signal for being an adult child of N parents-from what I read. She likes to make it seem like everything is ok on the outside. I think we have way more in common than we both now. I guess maybe that’s why I felt a strong bond to her-like we are good for each other. It doesn’t help me though, that she’s beautiful, smart, and sexy. I am really going to have to get a handle on this somehow. I need to get a library card since I can’t afford to buy books now. I think I have some reading to do again. I read all those books on recognizing spaths/narcs and red flags and all. It seems now that I need to dig around and figure out how my childhood is affecting me and how to do something about it, before it’s too late.
In his book, Games People Play, Dr. ERic Berne talks about that drama triangle which I call the musical chairs….each person plays a role but everyone keeps CHANGING roles from VICTIM-PERSECUTOR-RESCUER.
So when you ASK someone to “rescue” you, you are putting them in the power seat….when you ASK someone to keep a secret it is the same way…..when you try to tell someone else how to run their life and they don’t do it, you move from the rescuer seat to the persecutor seat—and you feel justified in doing this because they “should have listened to you”
They presume that THEY know better how to run your life than you do, but if you don’t take their advice then they get mad.
I dish out a lot of advice here….but I do not get mad at someone if they don’t take it. I DO from time to time get to feeling frustrated when someone goes back to an abuser, but you know what—that is NOT MY PROBLEM and my feeling of frustration is me (ME!!!) making it my problem and I have to bring myself up short and say to myself STOP THAT OXY!!!!!
Everyone on here as far as I know is over 18 and we are all entitled to live our livers as we choose—even if we decide to jump over a cliff we can do it. The only time someone is obligated to try to stop you is if you are hurting someone else in the process. Like if you told me you planned to kill someone I would be legally and morally bound to report that to the cops ASAP, even if I was your counselor or physician….if I knew you planned to off yourself I would be bound to report that. But as long as you decide you want to have a relationship with someone else and it is a mutually consenting, even if I think you are making a BIG mistake….all I can do is to step back and NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR what you do.
When we CARE about people though, it is sometimes difficult to not be sad or hurt or frustrated, but it is what we MUST DO. We cannot take on the mistakes and consequences for others’ behaviors and choices.
We do NOT however, have to associate with those people and allow their bad choices to impact on us. So…when people are intent on destroying themselves if I can’t reach them, I back off and allow them to do whatever it is that they intend to do. That’s been a difficult concept for me to learn….and more so to practice. Not just here on this blog, but in life as well. Having been raised that I was RESPONSIBLE for others’ happiness (at the cost of my own!) I’m going “against my raisin’ ” 180 degrees.
No larn, you can’t change your Egg donor at this time, or the dysfunctional dynamics of the family you grew up in, all you can do is to distance yourself from the, take responsibility for your own welfare, do not ask them for ANYTHING or expect anything different than what they have always done.
It is not your responsibility to make them like you. (as if you could) It is your responsibility to support yourself and to like yourself and behave in a manner that is consistent with a good moral compass.
REAL friends will help us wihtout the strings, dysfunctional, enabling and controling people on the other hand give “help” with the expectation of control in return. That is why I made the decision a long time ago to NEVER OWE anyone anything when they are like your egg donor or my egg donor. Cause the PRICE THEY CHARGE FOR THEIR “FAVORS” IS WAY TOO HIGH—they want payment in emotional blood.
Oxy-thank u so much. I love your post and it is so nice that you, not a relative/family member shows such concern for me-someone online. I learned a hard lesson that I won’t fall for again. It doesn’t matter what other people think about me discarding my family. They don’t know how maddenin it was growing up in that environment and it’s no ones business but mine. I don’t owe anyone an explanation. It doesn’t matter who they are-even the lady next door.
I’m not going to try to be in a relationship. It’s not the right time for me. I have so much to still deal with that’s really old-way before my ex, from when I was a child. I’m not going to say it will be easy-with my raging hormones going and all. I really need the boundaries that I set up, and neighbor lady has the same ones. Lesson learned-N people/parents don’t change, even after a whole year of NO CONTACT. I guess it’s hard adjusting 2 the fact that I’ve now cut off both parents, plus my sibs. Thanks Oxy ((((hugs))))
Dear Nolarn,
Sugar, I can so relate…there are times I’ve felt like old Job, lost everything and everyone, and even my friends didn’t believe me, and it HURTS, but you know I think sometimes we just have to learn that we can validate our own truth. The people who have told me I had a duty to make up with my mommie dearest…they had good intentions but they just don’t understand what she is.
I’m not even sure I could come up with a valid “diagnosis” on what she is that would fit the DSM-IV, I know “enabler” is one thing she is, but that isn’t even a “diagnosis” just a label, “control freak” is another one, again that’s not a diagnosis. She doesn’t fit the diagnostic criteria for anything really, but you know it doesn’t matter what you want to label her or diagnosis her as, she is TOXIC to me, she does not have my best interest at heart and it sounds like your egg donor is about the same.
That being the case, it just doesn’t matter what the blood relationship is, they are NOT SOMEONE WHO IS GOOD FOR OUR LIVES.
We are both adults and therefore we are responsible for taking care of our own needs…making a living, keeping a roof over our heads, running our own lives.
You’re still in the “ramping up” stage in your career and I’m in the “winding down” phase of my life, but we are both still responsible for making the best of every day that we can make, and depending on ourselves. No one else can make us truly happy or secure, we have to provide that for ourselves.
It might be nice if you had parents or sibs that were supportive and nurturing, but you don’t. And, you are not alone in that, lots of folks don’t. But you ARE smart, you have a license and a skill in nursing and in spite of everything you WILL be able to find a job of some kind in nursing that will pay the rent and tide you through until you can find one you like better.
Sugar I have cleaned houses, groomed dogs, shoveled sheet, waited tables, baby sat, been a salesperson, and a lot of other things in my life to “get by” til I could do better. I know you want to go to the police academy and think that is your “dream job” and it may be, but I do know this, until you get HAPPY and until you become satisfied with YOU, NO JOB, NO PARTNER, and nothing else will make you happy. CIRCUMSTANCES are not what makes us happy, happy comes from inside.
I tend to get scared about being dependent financially or going broke…and I am frugal, and actually my being frugal is what has made it so I have a roof over my head now, but yet, I worry about money much more than I should, but I have never yet missed a meal or gone hungry (you can tell by the size of my butt!) and I have never had to sleep in a card board box, though once my two kids and I did live in a camper shell on the back of my pick up for 4 months during my divorce from hell…but I have always survived and I will continue to do so to the last breath I take….I think you will too. Right now you are just in a spin cycle and reaching out to grab what looks like a log floating by (mommy dearest) and it turned out to be the same old alligator it always was and it bit you on the ass.
Swim for it GF! You can make it to the shore, just keep on stroking and depend on yourself, you are STRONGER THAN YOU KNOW. Quit waiting for someone else to save you….ONLY YOU can save you, make you happy, no matter what the circumstances are. (((hugs)))) BTW you’ve got some good support right here at LF and we ain’t goin’ no where, we will continue to be here for you, holding your cyber hand, or Boinking you with the cyber skillet! God bless.
I feel violated by the refusal of N mother to acknowlege and abide by my boundaries and I told her that this morning and she can’t accept it. Her N ness doesn’t allow her too. I felt like a puppet on a string again-as someone else here said earlier. That is NOT ok with me.
I reminds me of the quote by Einstein-“the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”. That is a favorite quote of mine and I violated that yesterday by allowing her in and it won’t happen again. I actually felt smothered this morning thinking about it. She has some kind of twisted obsession with me and wanting to enmesh herself into me so much that we would become one person. It’s sick and twisted and causes me great anxiety and the nausea is coming up when I think about it. No one is going to understand that-no matter how hard they try. Neighbor lady can’t understand it. My N father even told me that my sibs hate me because I am my mother’s Golden Child. I can do one thing in all this-stay and enmesh myself as they have or completely detach, and I have chosen detachment and I am not going back on that again. I am a whole woman by myself and I only feel like half a woman when she is encroaching on me. She immediately started controlling and planning how we can do all these things together and hang out and it freaked me out. It makes me feel like I’m regressing and that’s not OK.
I read about the triangulation and the N father is doing the triangle with me and his new wife and that’s why I am staying away from him. Two big signs of issues from having 2 N parents is adult children who spend all their time alone and don’t have the ability to interact socially well, and those who move geographically away from their families-in particular their parents. I am finally able to see how the trauma bond can relate to me. Thinking about interacting with them gives me anxiety attacks so it HAS TO END NOW. I don’t care what other people think about me discarding my family. For me to have any kind of life at all and not feel like I’m prison all the time requires that I have NO CONTACT. I’m not going to let anyone make me feel guilty. I will survive some kinda way, but NOT THAT WAY!
Oxy, thanks for everything that you said to me-it means a lot. I send you hugs and a cyber bouquet of pink roses to say thank you. I was coming on here thinking-yeah I’m over the spath and I won’t be fooled again and I’m OK. Everything’s cool. Thought I was ready for a relationship-NOT. I thought everything was peachy and was not able to acknowledge that there is SO much from my past that I have to work out. It really freaked me out reading about dysfunctional families/parents and it felt like whoever wrote the article stepped into our house. The classic sign is the two N parents who go out of there way to make people think that the family is completely functional, when that couldn’t be further from the truth. They try to put on this perfect picture. I felt like I was seeing my own life in the article-like someone was playing a movies of my life. I gotta figure out how to be normal now and not let all that N ness affect who I am-and it has up until now.