By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Does it really matter whether she is or not at the moment, nolarn? Is she making any moves on you, rushing you into an intimate acquaintance more than you can handle right now? Unless you get to know her better, you cannot know.
And here’s the issue imo: you feel it is not the right moment in your life to get to know her better, because you do not feel comfortable about this for numerous reasons. If you feel this is the case, it is better to keep your distance and focus more on your life as it is and yourself.
I wish you strength and a lot of positive human warmth your way
Milo – I always talk myself out of it, to far, to much gas, mite drink to much etc etc. It’s a 45 mile trip one way. I will go out again but when I am in a better frame of mind. And I will give you all the details then, I bet I will have to beat em off with a big stick…
ncop2b – HMMM – intense stare – makes you anxious….I would go NC – just dont look in her direction…I used to have “Loser’s Apply Here” stamped on my forehead…now it says “Dont EVEN think you can fuck with me”……
2 cop.
Darwin brings up a really good point, as does Sky.
This is where you listen to your GUTT. If you’re feeling that much intensity and there is that much drama, it’s BAAAAD news and a MAJOR MAJOR red flag!!
One of the things we have discussed here over and over, is paying attention to our guts and to the red flags. All of this mess is a result of overlooking that, and then it all snowballs from there….more red flags, more intensity, without TRUSTING YOUR GUT from the outset and why? Because you’re in a vulnerable place. And that’s what spaths, N’, whatever, CLING too. They give off wierd vibes. Maybe THAT”S the deal 2 cop. That gut stuff in a battle with your old familiar stuff, intensity, DRAMA, N parents. It’s your gut you need to listen to, NOT the familiar old reactions!
Listen to it.
LL
It does matter a lot if she is because that means I have to be careful around her. On the surface she is presenting a lot of qualities that are quite familiar and dangerous and the fact that I was so crushing on her and attracted to her is a serious problem. I don’t think I need to get to know her better for that reason. When someone shows those qualities on the surface w/o getting to know them it should be a red flag to those around them and it makes me want to have nothing to do with getting to know her better. Prior to these realizations I went way overboard trying to get to know her better and was getting absolutely nowhere and now getting nothing but bad vibes. If she is giving me bad vibes like this and sounding way too familiar to my former ex, who ruined my life and terrorized me, then there will never be a time to get to know her better. I have been burned too much and those people who trigger me and give me red flags are not worthy to be given a chance as far as I’m concerned-no matter how sexually attractive she is and no matter how much chemistry I feel with her.
Hens- I love you. You’re one of my most favorite guys! That’s kind of how I feel about it. There has to be a time when I make the move to erase that writing on my forehead. It’s all about replacing it with “DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT”.
Exactly, it doesn’t matter why your gut tells you not to go there. Just follow your gut feeling. It does it for a good reason, whether because of who she may be, or because you are not in the appropriate state to connect with her. Your instincts exist for your own good, for your survival.
it will happen erin72 when you put yourself on the top of your list, instead of ev1 else..
Yes, if she is one, nolarn, you want to stay away from her. But you want to stay away from her anyhow. The actual reason may have various causes, including her possibly being one of the dark tryad. But to be more sure of her being one of the dark tryad, you would have to get to know her better to compare her to the profile lists. And that is exactly the opposite of what your gut is saying 🙂
2 cop,
I think right now i”m super hypervigiliant yet, however, when I feel something in my gut, I’m going with it. I have too. It keeps me safe. I’m learning how to shut off instead of react. And THAT Is super super hard, given my background. It’s a new way of learning and coping and it takes awhile cuz you’re dealing with every fiber of your being that wants to go with the familiar. I really see that here.
Gut gut gut!
Thanks again Dar.
LL
The behaviors are just too entirely similar. The intensity that I feel toward her is exactly how I felt towards my ex from the beginning. I feel that any concern she displayed toward me was false. She has made comments about how she is concerned about me wanting so much to be a police officer because it’s so dangerous. How bout the fact that if I’m an officer and finishing my degree in Psychology that I will be much better at seeing through her crap and figuring her out for what she is. She doesn’t want that. That is why I’m going to HAVE to be careful. I can NC but at the same time I am a little worried about doing that in the right way. She has dirt on me now and she could have a whole lot of fun knowing that she has something to hold over my head and something that could terribly screw with my career. She was so excited when I moved in cuz she thought we would be such a great combo was neighbors. Now I’m wondering if she may have just thought I would be fun to f*** with.