By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
((((((((( katy! ))))))))))))))))
How are you? It’s hard to keep up with all the posts.
I hope you’re doing well!
LL
2 cop
You’re insightful and bright. I believe you know what to do. So you’ll just do it and not worry about it anymore.
In the broader scheme of things, this will eventually go away the more you “gray rock it” as sky says.
One thing I’ve noticed, that unless you’re involved with a PD in some way, most people really don’t give a rats ass what you do in time. They worry about themselves. I often wonder if we think they think about us more than they really do.
It all goes away eventually and this will be a memory like all the rest have been.
Just stay cool, Chica, focused on YOU now!
LL
hi LL – hope you had a good day, and happy mom’s day!
LL- I am just SO freakin glad that I figured it out. You said there was more to it and there was. She is an unbelievable comparison to ex boyfriend and the behavior is crazy alike. It explains all that with the eyes and the intensity and how she was making me feel just with her eyes. It’s crazy. I’m SO glad that I know the truth now. I should have no more episodes like last night where I was all intense drama girl with all the crying and being upset. I did cry last night and I’m sure she heard it through the thin walls. Now that I know what she is, who cares what she thinks about it. I hope you read Sky’s post. She had an interesting outlook on the me giving her the ammo issue. I feel so good that it’s figured out. That thing is crazy and I just have to keep remembering that!
i went out to see my mom. the n sire cut a wide birth when he saw me standing at the door talking to her. she is very ill, and they can’t figure out what it is (stomach), and she is in pain and stoned on morphine. she couldn’t come outside (she wasn’t doing well enough to), so we just chatted. i stood on the door step; stressed. this is so unnatural – i can’t go into the house (because of the new dog allergies) and have to avoid the n sire.
she had these 2 new dogs, and one looks and acts like the beauty she lost last summer – a dog who i loved and wasn’t able to cry for (post spath problem)…i remember the feeling of wanting to be alone to cry when i first found out, and then something just kicked in and it was – he’s dead/ gone. there is nothing more. and i could not cry. to see this little dog so much like him, it was so lovely.
my mom has huge gardens. for some reason her magnolia had heaved its root ball half out of the ground. i just went to the garage and got the spade and replanted it. (taking care not to set my bag down and make vulnerable to 3 dogs peeing). and that’s when it hit me – the ‘normal’, this just putting her plant back in, talking to the dogs, moving about the property that i know so well….all this normal, that makes me feel human…is gone. and in those moments of feeling it i felt ‘normal’ again.
i have lost all the normal out of my life in the last 2 years. all of it. and most of it can’t be regained……..
the sire gets it now – didn’t even try to talk to me, walked around the house and in through another door.
she said to me ‘go talk to your dad’. i said no. her face shattered…..and very quickly, i distracted her with talking about the dogs.
i think i have to sue him. the way it is now i am only suffering. i don’t have him, can barely see her, and i don’t have my money. why wait?
she is supply and she thinks this is about pride, and i tell you i have to fight to throw off that conditioning. i have no ‘point’ to make. i went nc with him because he stole from me, betrayed me and abandoned me when i was ill and didn’t try to help me. he fucked up. it’s on him, and it is sooo hard to not feel like it’s on me. because that is what i have been conditioned to.
i wish things were different. i wish she were okay. i wish i could see her. i took her recent pictures of me, and a nice card and told her that i know she loves me, and repeated again the reasons i can’t see her more often (sans the the n father stuff), so that for one moment, and maybe the next, she knows that i have not abandoned her. i am going to write her a letter tonight, and tell her those things, yet again. loving someone with dementia is round after round of the same words, over and over and over. and now she is on opiates and she feels even more confused. i miss her so much.
she was not a very nice mother for a very long time, but i have forgiven her, and just want to hold her.
(nola – tonight the tears come.)
onestep-I am glad that they can come tonite for you but sorry at the same time. I guess it was good for you to go see her. That doesn’t sound normal and ok for me to say that, because of mine. It’s nice that some people can enjoy their mother’s. I don’t feel like I have a mother anymore. I hope you feel better. BTW, I did cry last night and I’m sure that it was heard through the thin walls. But who cares-she’s a SPATH!
((One Joy))
sorry you had a rough mother’s day. me too. I miss the normalcy of going to see my mom. But I didn’t. I didn’t even call. I will see the parental units on their bdays but not on mother/father’s day because they were and are awful parents. The point must be made.
Even with dementia, your mom wants everything to be normal. Even if you could just pretend. But after a spath-attack, we know better than to “pretend”. Reality must be respected. We have to have values. Letting them off the hook, just this once, is the slippery slope.
Talking to my dad the other day, he said, “I never want to hear (spath’s ) name again, I told you that! When a person attacks my family, I never want to have anything to do with them again.”
I replied, “your son attacked me and so did your daughter. And she attacked your son too. Why is it different when the attacker is your own flesh and blood?” He had no answer.
It’s these double standards that narcissists have that are the problem. They use one standard for themselves and their family and another one for the rest of the world. So my family grew up thinking it’s okay to be evil, because it’s us! I’m just as guilty because I allowed evil on me and I overlooked what they did, because they are my family. sick, sick, sick.
sky – you were trained to overlook it. as i was too. it’s funny, people say that how people act about money show’s their real selves….and of course i thought that spoke about me (my being greedy). I feel greedy wanting what is mine.(i was taught to try reaaaallly hard with them, and to ask for nothing.) but if i REALLY apply that idea to my dad and this money it looks like this:
i tried for almost a decade: i was understanding, then i tried to help by literally cleaning some things up that were in the way of his giving me the money, then i tied to help by dealing with his legal obligations, and i was patient, i agreed to a new ‘deal’ and was patient, and fucked over. i finally came to realize that i was just fucked over.
and he: denied there was a problem, did not look after his legal obligations, did not clean things up, did not follow through on the things i put in motion re his legal obligations, promised a new deal, reneged on it twice.
and still….*I* feel guilty as i broke the status quo. oh he’s a crafty one – EVERYONE is guilty for his bad behavior.
when i heard his voice earlier – that controlling tone that he has at times, i just shuddered.
I love your, ‘reality must be respected’. and i still feel like i am ‘making it up.’ that belief that I MUST capitulate is so deep.
good reply to the delusional indignation. i could hear my dad saying the same sort of thing. man o man, i was/ am just supposed to take it and take it and take it.
nola – this journey you have been on in the last 24 hours is very interesting. you recognized the trauma bond, and then looked for the reason for it. good job!
losing our families sucks. sucks sucks. 🙁
Sky,
I still don’t understand why you have any contact with your family of origin at all…I mean it is your choice of course, but what are you getting out of it except more pain?
I had a great “mother’s day”—didn’t hear from son C at all, of course, but son D and I trimmed limbs in the yard, mowed, and just spent the day together doing what we do…had company yesterday some of his scouting friends came over ot help us top a big dying oak tree and haul brush….we worked today until we gave out in fatigue, ate a great dinner of left overs from yesterday’s FEAST I fixed for his friends….and then spent some time on the front porch just listening to the crickets, frogs and the quiet. Not even any highway noise or cows bawling, just quite and peace and what we call the “yard” (our little hole in the trees) with our wild flower garden looked so nice and peaceful.
I never thought 3 years ago when I was so traumatized I couldn’t even sleep in my own bed in my own house, but stayed in the RV parked out by the aircraft hangar that I would be comfortable again in my own bed, or that I’d feel safe again, but I do.
I’m not delusional that P son can’t send someone else, but I’m as prepared as I can be, but I won’t live in TERROR any more. I won’t let him or the egg donor or anyone else take away my peace and contentment.
Okay, I didn’t have a nurturing mother—still don’t—but I was and am a nurturing mother in spite of that. Even doing the best I could I didn’t get either of my biological sons to be the kind of men I wanted them to be, but they are free agents to make their own decisions and they did. Doesn’t mean I was a poor mother. God has been good to me and I do have my one son who is a man I can respect and love and who respects and loves me. That’s about as good as it gets.
It started out about them…but now it is about ME and what I do for myself, how I take care of myself, and keeping the toxic people out of my life is one way I care for myself. I don’t need to associate with those toxic people even if they are blood related.