By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Star – baby boa snuggles! awwwwwww
Oxy, thanks for your TOWANDA. I appreciate the well wishes!
But I’m curious what you meant by this: “BTW living in “paradise” is not the same as VISITING paradise”again, our vacations are kind of a “fantasy” existence in the middle of our “real lives—””
Sounds like “Glad you had fun, BUT……” which is kind of a way of injecting negativity into my dream. Just as a reminder, “real life” is whatever you make of it. It does not have to be here in this country. Many single woman move to Costa Rica and love it, even with all the down sides and enjoy their “real lives” there.
Star, no I was not trying to inject negativity into your vacation…but just saying that living in a hotel with all your meals cooked and served, getting to spend every day playing in paradise is not the same as “living there” and having to work for a living there, and provide your own meals etc. Vacations are RECREATION, re-creation, without the usual things that go along with “real life” like earning a living, cleaning house, doing laundry etc. So while being in “paradise” in a hotel is really almost a fantasy-like period of time, just keep in mind that living there is not going to be a VACATION.
If you really want to LIVE in CR I have no problem with you going for that dream….in fact, I say GO FOR IT! Just realize it is not the same as a “vacation.” In fact, I think until you try it you are not going to be satisfied where you are.
My point is that you can be satisfied where ever you are…..and be content ANYWHERE if your satisfaction comes from INSIDE YOU. I used to think that being here at the farm (at the time I lived iin the city) would make me happy…and while I do enjoy being here in my little piece of the earth, I realized FINALLY that a place can’t make me happy, and that no one else can make me happy, what makes me happy, content and satisfied, comes from inside. I used to think I couldn’t be happy anywhere else, but now I realize that this piece of the earth is just that….a place but the happiness comes from inside me, not what piece of ground I am standing on or living on.
Being able to walk away from here (If I have to) will not devastate me any more, will not wreck my life and leave me emotionally destitute. Home and contentment is where ever I find myself.
The security of happiness, peace and contentment INTERNALLY, is the one security I think cannot be taken from us.
LL – what a shite for spath to send you that.
How about this……… you print it off, wipe your bum on it and flush it down the toilet where it belongs!!!!
This thread made me think of previous small romances I had. And at least 2 are suspect, very suspect.
The first one only started out as a one-night, but I guess over a course of almost 2 years, he would sometimes appear at my door at 1am, and we had the “friends-with benefits” thing going. At some point though he didn’t appear anymore. I was then informed by someone else it was because he had developed feelings for me, but he knew I would not recipocrate. And he went back to his ex-girlfriend. The weird thing is that about a year later I was at a party, and his girlfriend was too. For me it wasn’t of much importance, cause he never was much of importance. I cared for his well being, as I would for any acquaintance, but no more than that. Anyhow as I came out of the bathroom cell to wash my hands, she suddenly appeared and asked me whether I was [myname] and didn’t I know [hisname]. I told her I did. She then verified with me whether it was true I once had some sort of sexual relationship with him. I did not see the point in lying, so I admitted that for a while there we had been very casual friends-with-benefits and she then said, “He’s a pathological liar! Don’t ever believe a word he says.” I said, “Ok. Thanks for warning me. But I haven’t seen him anymore for over a year,” except maybe thrice at the bar with her in passing.
The reason he retreated when he was supposed to be in love with me was because at the time I was actually interested in someone else. And it is starting to become very clear that that guy was at least in part narcistic. He was a tourleader in training, I was one of the trainers (but never his, and would have refused to be one). He was a smooth guy. Not all that much charming, but smooth, and always appeared perfectly groomed. We dated a couple of times, but I was dealing with a lot of trust issues, so I was very wary. I knew that another 20-something tourleader in training was totally star-eyed about him. But I never saw her as a threat. I felt that I was a woman, she was a young girl. I may have had trust issues (which mostly meant, I would rarely show my true feelings to a man), but I was learning how to open up. And for the life of me I could not imagine a healthy man to fall for the easiest picking. She tried to get him on a date for Valentine, right in my face at some point, and he said back very calmly and politely, “I’m sorry, but I will be having a date with Darwinsmom” He invited me to his shared home, cooked me a meal and then we made out, and I slept over, but I did not want to go all the way. I felt it would make me too vulnerable. He confessed to me then that he had slept with the other girl once, and we were still just feeling each other out. So, I agreed to a non-committed dating relationship. And he knew the non-commitment was both ways. I was having my friend-with-benefits coming over at the time.
We dated some more, including a date where he helped me and my father wallpaper my bedroom anew.
On one of the training weekends once, she ended up on my trainee list, and I immediately informed the organizers to put her in another group. I did not want to be training a close group of 5-7 people on reaction-behaviour psychology with a possible jealous, but at least head-over-heals woman who regarded me as a rival in my group. Wouldn’t benefit her, nor myself.
He disclosed to me that she was actually miffed about that. I didn’t care much. I don’t want to mingle private with professional, certainly not when having to lead role play games, analyse action-reaction situations, etc.
At the end of the weekend on Sunday night, he returned to my place. For a long time he had asked me to trust him. And that evening I did.
A week later, I ended up having the flue, and he was coming over with chinese and would have a tv-evening on the couch, when all of a sudden he said, “I’m not sure whether I’m allowed to stay over.”
I laughed, and said, “Why would you think that.” But then the penny started to drop. “You’re also involved with her?”
He admitted that and said, “And I don’t know who to choose.”
It were the worst words anyone could have ever told me. I turned like ice inside, and said, “Then I will choose for you. There is the door.”
I think he was the first man I actually ever hated. Months and months, it had taken me to start to trust, and the next week he didn’t know who to choose. And I was so mad at him for putting the responsibility of choice for the three of us in my hands.
He was not a drama guy. But he came off cool and smooth at all times really. And yeah, he had a weird stare. My chaotic P had a normal gaze most of the time in comparison (only when he picked me out, did he stare at me, and on his pictures, unless he makes crazy faces).
When he would see me once in a while, he would appraoch me to find out how I was doing. But by then he meant absolutely nothing to me anymore. And one time, while I was talking to some friends of mine on a weekend, during the tourleader party, he joined into the convo, standing there, even though I ignored him, then tried to talk to me some more when the friends had gone back to the dancefloor. It was kinda creepy. Especially when he put his hand on my shoulder in what felt an inappropriate manner and carressed it. I’ve avoided the guy ever since.
My ex-fiance never knew much about my love-past. He knew I had been single for 10 years, but not really why. The only story he ever knew was about the guy “not able to choose”. It’s probably not an accident he chose to break up the way he did: telling me he met someone else, and changing the relationship status simultaneously from me to the new one at the same time he wrote me the message.
10 years of hard work, on my trust issues, and I started having total faith in a guy who never deserved it.
Sigh… Don’t really know whether those other 2 were ever really guys with personality disorders. One I never cared enough about to allow into my life much, and the other I chased out ASAP.
Star-she IS a spath and her mask has been ripped off by me. Any concern that I had with her and any feelings that I had, as well as the drama and intensity is gone. I am not letting those eyes get to me EVER again. I know that Sky is right about her planting seeds with me and that is NOT ok. Then she makes me feel like shit about myself. It is gray rock and NC and 50 other words like that. She parks her car directly across from my truck on the street so now I get to see it everytime I go to my truck. I really doubt that’s an accident. I’m DONE!! No wonder she was so glad for me to move in here. The Russian guy who lived here before probably didn’t give her the time of day so she had no one to fuck with!
Hmm on the abroad thing… it’s true. I’ve worked in Mexico for a couple of months at a folkloric museum, living with a family. I have a Belgian friend who lives in San Christobal. Half of the year, she just lives there in her house, and does day-trip guides once ina while. The other half of the year she’s tourleading there, always on the road.
I love tourleading, but no more than 1-2 months. It’s exhausting to be 7/24 to give people attention whenever they need it. I had the wildest adventures on my trips, great stories… but I wouldn’t be able to do that for 6 months in a row. After 2 weeks already I start to treat my rucksack as very territorial as it’s the sole thing that makes my temp home.
I wondered for a long time whether I would move to Mexico. Nope, didn’t have a love there, except for the country. But eventually decided against it. My calling is being a teacher, and I need to make a living too while I pitch in with the rest of society in the hope to make for a better future. Any central American country would mean wages of 200-300$ a month. And you can’t do much with that kind of wages. Unless I was to become some private teacher at a rich kid’s school, but that would defeit my partly social purpose in being a teacher.
When I still believed that my ex-fiance had some troubles that he would grow out of as he would mature, I didn’t even want to move to Nicaragua, though he asked in December. Same teacher issue. Working in a bar is fine, as a temp job to make extra money. But don’t want to depend on it for the rest of my life. And I’m just not an entrepreneur. My admin skills are horrible. And while I don’t mind mingling and socialising on a social level, I just don’t see myself do it on a business level. Certainly with my ex-fiance I already believed it would be a downright disaster. At least I would have maintained somesort of independence here.
Not to mention the people do start to treat you differently if you’re there as a visitor or as more tied to the country. Once the latter, they start to treat you as a potential rival to their business or dealings. The gossiping is horrible, as is the jealousy, and everybody at some point will ask you to help out.
Costa Rica is the sole Central American country with social security. And the people are much more reserved and well European than the rest of Central America. Once you get to know them better though, they are jovial and open and more spontaneous. But it’s as expensive as Europe, with much less pay.
I have a soft heart for the whole of Central America and South America. When I meet a Latin-American here, I kinda always melt a bit, but I’ve seen the ugly face through the years as well.
I have high respect for the women and men who do move over there. I just know that in the end, it won’t be my thing. I can be perfectly happy where I am now, as long as I get to have a taste of Latin-America every 2 month summer holidays.
LL…..I know how you feel. You want to believe that he still loves you, if he ever did…..But, just the fact that he was seeing you while still married and home, shows you that he wants his cake and eat it too….as the old saying goes.
To get rid of the triggers…delete that old email addy or block him if possible. He is a real nervey arrogant, typical sociopath.
No doubt about that!
Keep living your life and doing all you are doing to help yourself grow strong and independent so that you never feel worthless or not good enough for a healthy man and a healthy relationship.
These socios, as my xhusb is, never fail to surprise and stun you. My refinance is dependent on my xhusb paying May’s support. After one year, Florida finally caught him for back support. He owes me 27k! They made him pay 1,000. and let him walk. So, I texted him to please make one more payment so that we can stay in our home. He texted back a quote from the Bible…”Tribulation shall pass” 1 Corinthians..I was homeless for 3 months” Can you imagine? He closed up a 400k/yr buisness to marry a Brazilian and make her a citizen and then moved to Deadbeat Dadville, Florida, where they don’t jail him as they did in NJ!
So, the bank will probably deny my refi and I will have to move…all because of him not paying the support! Nice Christian man!
So, you see, when they have no empathy, they don’t deserve to breathe air. I hope they jail him and throw the key away!
I am accepting it all…because there is nothing I can do to change the spots on that sick leopard!!!
NOthing surprises me anymore when dealing with them!
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Tobe
Thank you. I don’t want to believe he still loves me, because I know he DOESN”T. What blows me away is the ABSOLUTE MINDBLOWING VIOLATION OF BOUNDARIES!
“I hope you’re doing well and having a happy mother’s day!”
After what YOU did to me? Yep, happy alright! NOT. I didn’t and won’t let him know that, but it pisses me off because of the absolute GALL this man has. Not only that, but it just dawned on me too, that he’s living with his new gf. If I was her, I’d be PISSED OFF if I knew he sent a mother’s day card to an EX! She doesn’t know and he’s covering his tracks using a very old email address and only initials in addressing our names, but what in the hell would make him THINK i would want ANYTHING to do with him again or that I would go FLYING back to him or that I would RESPOND to any of that shiat?
What an asshole. If he’s happy with HER, he needs to leave ME alone. I don’t want to know ANYTHING about what’s going on. It hurts when I find things out.
He and gf are now into about month three. He’s either bored, and looking for a triangulation or he wants to torture me about how “happy” he is. He also THINKS I’m happy. What fun it would be to destroy that, eh?
Tobe, I’m sorry about your situation. What an asshole to do that to your children too. I hope you don’t lose your home and I will say some prayers for you about that. Everything you say about them is right.
They are absolutely unbelievable.
LL
Thanks LL…..I can feel for you. I remember when I got emails out of the blue from my xhusb socio…They just feel so entitled and have more nerve than God! They are plain evil.
My girls will never forgive him for abandoning them and now doing this to us. But, “God don’t like ugly” and he will pay for all he’s done to them….MR. Hypocrite. I told my girls that he must have brain damage from the fumes he inhaled from his old trucks! I’m not even kidding…but his Dad was diagnosed as a sociopath years ago. He also abandoned my x and his brother and haunted their poor mother all of her life.
If we have to move I feel its meant to be and we will be alright. I found a home for rent today, while awaiting the banks answer…..it is down the road, similar to mine and faces the lake too.
I’ve learned to leave things up to fate. I take action…but then I Let Go, Let God…..got this on my refrigerator! I’ve been feeling great lately…loved the book…THe Happiness Trap and Loving What IS….my bibles. You can’t just read them, you have to practice them. I do. And, my stress level is way down and I am happy and secure with myself.
When you begin to heal and are through with the grieving…you emerge as a new person. I have never felt this good in my entire life. I finally love myself and stand up for myself and have no fear. I take action to change my life if something isn’t working. Thats key.
JUST DO IT……is my motto.
You will get there. Keep doing everything to make your days on earth worthwhile….We don’t know how many more tomorrows we have.
2b