By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Ox,
I’ve been reading the most INTENSE scripture about abusive spouses….this could be taken to mean ANYONE who is so toxic. I can’t tell you how much it’s helping me.
I”ve been researching this alot, trying to reconnect to my faith.
I DO believe God is real. But I had only dabbled in what scripture says about abuse. I recall asking a pastor about this when I was getting ready to separate from my abusive spouse. He gave me the definition of adultery, that in my mind, was only applicable to “sexual infidelity”.
Wow. I’m learning a lot. A lot. I’m trying not too be too hard on myself as I read, having been on both sides of the fence, but rather applying it to TWO abusive men I was with, ABUSIVE..how God views that.
Amazing healing is happening from that understanding.
Just wanted to share. My faith is growing. It’s up and down, but How God sees is important to me.
LL
Years ago I read this great book written by a male Christian lawyer, called “Gods view on Divorce.” he had researched the whole issue in the Bible very thoroughly and basically he said that, yes, God does HATE Divorce but there are exceptions to the rule.
By this time I had left my alcoholic and wife beating and abusive first husband,had divorced him and had remarried to my present darling husband.
I was at the time attending a very Fundamentalist type prayer group. At the time I felt I needed it, but I now see that the old guy who ran it,{he was a pastor, retired over 80,}was very narrow minded indeed.I couldnt understand WHY he kept on praying aloud for Peter,, my ex, and never mentioned my present husbnd.! After almost a year of this, I challenge d him on it. he ADMITTED hed been praying that David and I split up and I go back to my ex, who by htis time was living happily with another woman.! This is WITCHCRAFT!I had no contact with my ex, and had long ago forgiven him.
I was FURIOUS with the old Pastor,-how dare he!
There is NO WAY you will EVER change these peoples minds they are like concrete,firmly set.
Anyway, I was in turmoil, then I found this book by the Christian Lawyer. he explained there were 2 levels of Adultery,called Porneaio, and Fornaeo, one was Physical Adultary and the other was Spiritual adultery.
He had found in the bible that God HATES both forms of adultery but the emotional abuse type was the worst.
He said,”If your ex or current husband has
beten you, emotionally abused you, gone with prostitutes,
isi n a habitually drunken state, God positively COMMANDS and ORDERS you as the abused party to LEAVE.!!
If you do not, God will literally HAUL YOU OUT of it by your hair! {He literally did this with me!}God does NOT want you to live in a n abusive marriage, he wants us to be happy, loved, and fulfilled.
So, if ex husband has done any of hese things, beaten you, emotionally abused you, been habitually drunk, HE HAS ALREADY BROKEN HIS VOWS TO GOD and GOD hates him up and until he is ready to break down and honestly repent and turn his life around.{Of course, thi s applys just a s well to female abusers!}
I CANT TELL you how relieved I was to read this book and relise that God not only DID NOT condemn me, He actually had ordered me to leave!
I left th fundamentalist Preyer group soon after.These peopl will never change their views and the others in the group were so brain washed none of them supported my views!
Love,
Mama GemX
gem,
I understand what you are talking about and some people who have a “fundamental” view of things try to tell others how they should feel or think.
Did you hear about that NUT JOB PREACHER HERE who burned the Koran after promising President Obama that he would not—and then 12 people were killed in Riots in the middle east…he said the reason he BROKE HIS PROMISE was to give the Arabs a chance to “defend” their book. He has never met a Muslim he said but now he is responsible for 12 deaths by causing the riots. What a narcissistic nut job….talk about anything for attention!
That kind of person give any religion a bad name, and he is the same as the men who drove the planes into the twin towers on 9/11—-he is willing to lie for his “beliefs” and for inciting riots, break promises. He and his 30 followers have caused an international incident that cost innocent people their lives.
I think there are people like this in every “religion”—and we have probably all had ancestors who were killed or burned at the stake for their beliefs, and also had other ancestors who probably lit the fire that burned the others….but we don’t have to accept this kind of behavior or actions…or to let it turn us away from our beliefs. We can come to our own beliefs (fortunately) in this country where we are not generally forced or too badly persecuted for those beliefs, as in some countries.
I was raised in a fundamentally hard core group and my egg donor pushed her ideas on me, but I also saw that like that man who burned the Koran, she doesn’t keep her word—she lies. Just like he lied when he promised Obama that he would not burn the Koran, then he turned around and did so. He, like all psychopaths and liars, had an “excuse” of why he broke his promise, but it doesn’t even sound sane to anyone but him and his deluded cultish followers.
That man doesn’t “get it” what Jesus was about or what love is about, or honesty, or truth or anything else. His soul is evil and his heart is black with HIS OWN NARCISSISM.
I realize that I had read the Bible through the FILTER of my egg donor’s prejudices…that the Bible lessons were more about love and kindness and much less about hell and brimstone and punishment for not living up to my egg donor’s wishes. I realized that The God of the Bible was a lot less critical and a lot nicer than the egg donor…funny that! I see so many lessons in some of the old “Bible stories” about how people treated each other, and how they should treat each other. I realize the Bible has lots of lessons for “how to live a happy life” and how to find peace. I think it was Benjamin Franklin (not sure though) who said “sin is not bad because it is labeled sin, it is labeled sin because it is bad for you.”
If you think about it, the things the Bible says are “sins” ARE BAD FOR YOU— stealing, lying, murder, adultery, etc. every one of those things brings pain. Children are told to “honor their parents” and parents are told to bring their children up with kindness and NOT PROVOKE THEM TO WRATH (vengeful anger for unjust treatment). Well, what does “honor your parents’ mean? In my book, it means to become the kind of person that would bring honor to a parent, but it doesn’t mean you have to be a door mat to an abusive parent.
Once I got the prejudices of my egg donor out of the way, that SHE was the only one who had a direct telephone to God’s will, it was AMAZING just what I saw in the Bible. All the love and forgiveness that is there, the caring and the road map to a peace. Even if you are not a “believer” there is still some great messages there on how to live a peaceful and happy life. How to avoid bad guys and be a good guy, how to help others, but not how to be a door mat. I think you are 100% right, Gem, God doesn’t want us to be door mats or to fly planes into the towers, or light the fire under unbelievers either, but to rejoice in life and the blessings we have. (((hugs)))) God bless.
Hi Oxy,
an excellent article and very timely for me.
It makes so much sense, why do we keep going back to them, why do we intellectually understand it all and still go back trying to think it will be different.
as you said – why do we pursue the insanity.
I am so tired with his saga, his drama, my drama, the whole nonsensical crap.
I will do it, – my mantra from you is “it doesn’t matter”
thank you
from :
an insane petite – taking her first step onto the path of sanity.
Hi Petite,
You sound sane to me.
There is nothing insane about wanting your dream. You just need to understand that HE ISN’T IT. He’s a poisonous snake.
Open yourself to new possibilities Petite. When you fixate on a specific thing that you feel will complete you, you may be overlooking many other things that are going to make you happy. I know you dream of an intelligent physician partner. That is a nice dream, but what if you overlook a physicist or a journalist who is equally intelligent? What if God has MORE planned for you than you can even imagine? He has always done that for me and I think that he does that for all of us. Even though I rail against the lessons, I’m also greatful for the knowledge.
Allow yourself to experience people in a new way Petite. You don’t have to be afraid because you know the red flags. Nobody can fool you now. (Plus you have LF to offer help if you need it)
Maybe a physician would be too much like you Petite and you would get bored within a few years. If you find someone to complete you who works in a different field, then you will have a wellspring of new knowledge to keep your mind engaged for years. Get out there and have fun Petite, don’t think of that boring old spath anymore.
Thanks Skylar,
agree, he is a poisn snake.
Last week in Sydney at a meeting, I spoke to him on the phone and went into a total emotional spin. The Sydney meeting with him not being there triggered me with memories of past meetings when he was there.
Then on the phone I wept and told him how much I missed him and how I should go for the meeting in USA (this week, which I had cancelled the plan) and that how we should rethink of getting together again. I even sent him a email telling him the same and that we should think of getting back together and bring back the good times.
This phase lasted for 5-6 days and now I realise how I was so foolish, how I caved in and totally lost my balance.
he replied the email – saying he is at the meeting now and will think and reply to me in a few days time.
I put my foot into it, I acted on my feelings for him.
I made a mistake.
Now i am worried about what if he replies and says lets get back again.
I don’t want to, so I am going to either not reply at all (as Oxy said), but then I was the one who sent him the email, so I am thinking of saying .
X,
I did have thoughts of getting back again, but rethinking over and over again, I think the long distance between us will always be an obstacle / hindrance for a balanced relationship.
Sky – what do you think.
yes I was stupid, I made a mistake, Oxy – said – it is OK, we are humans, we have feelings, we do make mistakes.
petite
Dear Sweet Petite,
You reacted emotionally and now you worry you will feel guilty if he extends his hand back to you and you don’t reach out….IF IT WERE A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP, you might have a reason to feel guilty. BUT this is NOT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP.
It is a one-sided relationship with a man whose apparent only object was to get a beautiful woman in bed with him and someone who would pay her own way on some exotic travels. Ok, you got to see some lovely country and places…but you have told me how cross and controlling he was and spoiled some of those visits.
Unless you are just wanting a man to shack up with at conventions every few months I think this man is not going to meet your needs. I think, knowing you as I do that you are not just looking forf some guy to shack up with for a week at conventions a few times per year—in other words “friends with benefits” (Sex from time to time but no strings or attachments) You would be one of many I am sure and I think you realize that as well.
NO response if he e mails or calls you you, just delete it don’t read it. He will get the idea and you don’t owe him anything. Close and lock the door to the relationship, throw the key in to the sea and forget about him.
Well, I am going to bed now, have a lovely rest of the weekend. (((hugs)))) Love Oxy
Oxy,
I agree the preacher is a nutjob.
But don’t you think that people who murder others and blame some nutjob in Georgia for it, isn’t that also nutjob thinking? Sounded pure spath to me, murdering and feeling entitled b/c I was offended by nutjob “A” so I murdered some other people I found?
There’s a lot of people that offended me, but no way would I murder them, never mind murdering several others as a substitute for the offender. IMHO
Oxy – you’re really good at linking seemingly unrelated analogies to our situations with the spaths. I, like so many others went back multiple times only to be wounded with the same ole behaviours again and again.
He actually said to me later on “You knew what I was when you married me.” (That was before I really knew).
Like the man in the story, I believed all his sob stories and raced to help him in any way possible. It’s still quite surreal to be my myself and see all the changes that have taken place in his absence since implementing no contact.
My life definitely improved markedly …any contact with him was just an opportunity for him to manipulate and make me feel bad again.
Dear Oxy,
you know me very well. I definitely do not want a man for only short term outings and conferences. I will never settle for that with anyone, not in my list of options.
No way.
yes, those visits to nice cities with him, were not all that nice and every single trip I cried at some stage or the other, it was red flags all over, one trip would end, he would butter me up in the 2-3 months in between the trip by sweet emails, and then I would think – OK, this time he knows what upsets me and he will be more careful.
Same repeat episode in the next trip, some other topic, other situation would arise and I would feel toppled over or guilted in a conversation.
so I know he is poison for me, and I am beginning to digest what you said that – I do not have to feel guilty for anything I said or wrote to a poison snake.
thanks for your advice.
petite