By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Skylar thanks for your response the more I read on this site the more everything just makes sense. My ex Spath also a coffee drinker, said he also had ADD, coke addict and alcoholic and get this lied about having a job where he was the BOSS/supervisor and before I discovered him to be unemployed he would lie about work saying he had to fire someone or employees would beg him for a pass because of tardiness. We would argue and he would constantly say “I am the man in this relationship, you are not going to control me and break me down.” It’s weird how they crave control and dominance over everything.
Well, maybe you folks would like to hear from the mother of a 35 y/o sociopath. I had allowed him to move back home after an eight year absence during which I saw him about once a year, not much opportunity to be aware of his shenanigans.
He had me convinced he was doing well for a long time. Then last year I bailed him out of a huge financial mess and alloweed him to move back home. I thought we could help each other, I didn’t realize what a “snake” he was at the time. He’d kept it well hidden.
To make a very, very long story shorter, lets just say I allowed him to totally destroy me to the point of my having a nervous breakdown and being forced to take early retirement and apply for SSD.
He swindled me out of thousands of dollars, stole from me, destroyed and broke things I valued and lied, lied, lied and couldn’t understand why I’d get so upset. Nothing was ever his fault and any failures were due to someone elses incompetence or stupidity !
I cried every day for over a year, am still crying and have been seeing a therapist since last Aug. who finally made me realize it wasn’t my fault. I have two other sons who are absolutely wonderful. There will be family functions where he will be present. I have decided that if he approaches me I will tell him “GET OUT OF MY FACE ! “, turn around and walk away
It will be up to his brothers to decide what kind of a relationship to have with him. I have shared everything he has done to wrong me. I feel they must know the truth to protect themselves. I also have made an appt. with a lawyer in order to disown and disinherit him.
From now on I will have only two sons because he is dead to me. If he ever finds someone with whom to form a long-term relationship, I will certainly do my best to warn her
I’ll be sixtyfour in August and have bee living alone, supporting my three children for about 30 years. Their father was pretty useless, too and probably also a sociopath, but not as bad as his son. I had a few dates after I got rid of him, finally, and have been alone since 1989. It was hard at first, but I had to concentrate on working and supporting my children and had no time for men. Eventually sexual desires went away and now I’m happy to be alone and do not ever want a man in my life again.
The longer one lives alone the better it gets. I’m never lonely and keep busy doing things I enjoy. I do what I want, when I want, go where and when I please, cook or don’t cook, clean house or not. I stopped loving this creature and feel disgust and hate for him now, but am working toward indifference.
If he dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow I wouldn’t care.
I wish all of you younger people wisdom and clarity. If you find decent, loving and normal partners be sure to observe the rest of the family carefully. There may be SP’s lurking in their midst.
And if you have children keep your eyes wide open and if you sense there’s something not quite normal about your child, get help immediately ! Don’t stop until you do get help.
Good luck and blessings to all.
SK10;
You make some very good observations.
“9. He couldn’t make a decision for squat about anything. This is because most people use facts + emotions to make decisions. He had no emotions, so had to over analyze facts to try to decide. Paralysis.”
Very insightful, that lack of emotion leads to “analysis paralysis.” Did not know my x-spath very long and I actually had impression that he was decisive — he certainly dumped me quick enough. However, after the fact I found his profile on several dating sites. One asks to provide three words for a headline to describe yourself. His three words were “indecisive, indecisive, indecisive.”
“10. Stingy about money.”
Totally and even admitted it to me.
“15. Had no friends. Lied to close family. No apparent hobbies or interests besides money.”
He had no family ties except his sister and her two sons, but he was not particular close to her. Both his parents died when he was in college, although he was estranged from his father since early childhood.
He did not have many close friends. I met two of them and he spoke about several others but nothing intimate. Described his best friend as a “cunt.”
Regarding interests, he seemed to have none other than travel and drinking. Perhaps a minor interest in urban architecture.
Online he lists for hobbies “boys, beer and fooling around.”
Of course to me he acted liked a british altar boy and was actually very evasive regarding sex.
INESMILLGEN:
Thanks for posting on LF. and welcome!!!
You sound like you got a grip on the reality part of your spathy son……good for you.
As I read your post, I envisioned my MIL, who unfortunately keeps enableing her wretched, abusive – good for nothing, drug dealing son.
NOW…..I just found out this week…..he’s living in her ‘vacant’ home, as she’s with another sibling.
YIKES…..we all know where that will lead her…..but she’s not got to your point of clarity yet….unfortunatley.
You sound like a kick ass…..pull no punches woman…..who now get’s it!
Geterdone baby!!!!!!
Sorry any mother has to go through this!
Your’ in good company. and Definately NOT alone in your situation here at LF.
Keep posting.
BBE,
My investigative skills must surely suck. My ex spath was only on one dating site that I know of. Of course I created a profile on it prior to our break up and (IRONICALLY) it “matched” us. How you guys find out that your snakes are on other sites amazes me.
INES- WOW! You’re def kick ass! I could learn lots of lessons from you! I suspect I have a spathy sixteen year old son, for whom I’m trying to get a psych eval done on. No denial there! I”m really glad you shared your story but so sorry about your son. It’s just amazing shit isn’t it?
EB- GOOD GAWD girl, where ya been? Did you get out of the house, away from the bear yet???
LL
Dear INESMILLIGAN,
Welcome to LF—I am the mother of a 40 year old psychopath who is in prison for murder, and he just wrecked my life too—even though he’s been in prison for more than 20 years, by sending one of his convict buddies to off me for disinheriting him….he has convinced my egg donor (formerly called “mother”) to send him money and support him, hire him parole attorneys, etc. so I can empathize completely with you.
As far as your other sons having a relationship with him, I am at the point that I am NO CONTACT with anyone who has a relationship with my P-son because I figure it this way, anyone who would have a relationship with someone who has done the kind of things to his family that this man has done is not thinking very well, their judgment is poor, and I don’t need that kind of person in my life. My egg donor KNOWS, she’s seen the proof, and yet she sends him money and lies to my other sons and I about it….she is determined to “save” him, even though she knows he killed a girl in cold blood, knew his “friend” was having an affair with his brother’s wife, knew his friend and the wife tried to kill his brother (thank god they went to jail/prison for that and didn’t succeed) and yet she still chooses this monster over her other grandsons and her only child.
I have found that the only way I can stay safe from psychopaths is to avoid them AND anyone that is “friends” with them in any way.
If someone is a “friend” to someone who is an ENEMY to me, someone who deliberately hurt me, then why do I need them in my life?
Glad you are here at LF, there are other mothers here who share your grief at the loss of a child who is a monster of psychopathy. It isn’t our fault, but accepting the truth is the only thing that will set us free from the pain. God bless. And welcome.
Ines,
My ex S also did some of these same things to his mother. he lied to her, maxed out her ccs, and she always came to his rescue. Just recently he had several warrants for missing court and failure to pay tickets and she (his mom) paid them all off to keep her dear beloved out of jail. He also has no lisence and he drives her car everyday with no job and nowhere to go while she drives another person’s car to work everyday. To me this is insanity. He wad also recently arrested and she bailed him out however called my phone pleading for me to get him to call her because she did not think he was going to show up for court. His response to me was he does not go to court and obviously has no regard for his financial obligations. He knows his Mom is going to cover him everytime due to her own guilt in not being the greastest mother. You cannot let these people drive you crazy son or not. They saya mother’s love is unconditional but while you are stuck in debt he will be on to someone else working on them. They dont care about anyone! Not their family, kids, lovers, etc…The best advice I can give is not to be an enabler. You have to let them go. Even for me I was also being an enabler. Caring for him, believing I could help, maybe if I loved him hard enough he would change. I wanted to get him off drugs etc..Truth of the matter is there is nothing we can do. now I am angry, but I am working on this recovery. Stay strong!
Hi LL….
I’m around……just busy these days….still in the house…..SHIAT!
Hope your well….you sound so much better!
Keep moving in that right direction…..one step at a time!!!
Hi SK,
Thank you for your waiting..
You wrote:
“I wonder why it is that our emotions go up and down so much? Most of the last two weeks I’ve been so blue, feeling so sad, feeling like I loved him so much”.then briefly this afternoon I just felt normal. Back to my normal self. It was so freeing. I wish I could push my belly button and go back to that any time I want!”
The same was true for me. Every bit of what you wrote, and more! Including the part where you wrote: “I wish I could push my belly button and go back to that any time I want”. I wrote about it here. In a very desparate way, in fact. I got a taste of what it was like to feel really good, once again, but then that feeling was replaced with past negative feelings and emotions. I know that some, if not a lot of it had been the triggers that caused it to resurface. I was on an emotional roller coaster that I could not stop. So many times I found myself saying out loud, “Just make it stop, Just make it stop”. Who was I talking to? The rollercoaster oporator? Sheesh..
Anyway,
I told everyone about that wonderful experience, of feeling so high on the happiness that once again entered my being/presence/life, so to speak. I realized that I had an uncanny amount of gratitude, infact my happiness, as temporary as it was at that time, cause me to cry repeatedly (with tears of joy). I had thought I had recovered to a point of being over the hard part. The pain and anguish, and the negative obsessing that seemed to constantly envelope my head had basically vanished. It litrally felt like some type of little miracle.
But the happiness, eventually replaced with all of the crapiness, once again had me realizing that I was trapped in it as it had control over me for an extended period of time, and I had absolutely no control over it what so ever.
After some time I grew incredibly angry and realized that My anger, which was caused by what he had done to me, fueled more anger. I was trapped in a very angry place, that for several weeks I was unable to gain control over. The anger created more anger. I had never been an angry person before, so it was very disconcerting. I started to wonder if it would ever subside. Although I have experienced many different feelings and emotions, at this point I am able to say that anger and humiliation (because of my P’s particular actions) were the hardest things for me to go through and then to overcome. It has only been two weeks since I have been completely free of the Humiliation.
Before the humiliation set in, I had been in a very good place within myself/in my head for at least a few weeks, and I could tell that I was recovering. Enough so, that when I had run into the P, a few weeks ago, I felt a sense of confidence and I handled it well (went grey rock, thanks to Skylar. acted like a potted plant, thanks to Ox Drover). As I had expressed here, previously, I have now run into the P (and his new girlfriend/victim) three times. Before that, NO CONTACT for four months.
Anyway, I told you that I could provide you with positive info, which is this: I was in the exact same state that you have expressed, above, for several months, while also dealing with becoming untwisted and all of the other stuff that happens in the aftermath. With all of that said, I have gotten to the otherside (of Hell). I no longer have thoughts of him. It is a freakin miracle! I am relaxed. My heart no longer jumps. My blood preasure is now, all the way down to where it had always been before the P occurance. My mind has gotten it’s freedom back and honestly, the P had stolen that from me. I am more trusting, but not to a fault. I am no longer feeling on edge or nervous all of the time. I am no longer feeling like something has a hold on me. I am back in control.
It isn’t over by any means, and I will never be quite the same person that I was before the P came into my life, but I got my power back, and nobody and nothing is controling me what so ever any longer. Granted I am doing a good bit of therapy and have an excellent support system.
It wasn’t long ago that I had asked Oxy: “Oxy, I know I will sound just like LL (whom I adore), but can you please tell me when all of this will all be over. I really need to know.” I remember Oxy saying to me: “Sugar, I cannot tell you when it will end. It is not like a ?, but rather it is like a river. It will come and go (or the tide will rise and fall) for how ever long it is going to. You will get there, and then you slide back, then get there, then slide back until one day you will get there AND STAY THERE. I think I can honestly say that this time I am staying here, because I no longer feel it anymore.
SK, you and the others that have still not arrived at that place of peace, where Oxy and Hens, and some others are now, will absolutely, 100%, no doubt get there. You absolutely for sure, no matter what, will arrive at a really good place. I konw this because I believe that I am now there, and I had been very bad off, for several months.
I am now going through a stage of being someone afraid that if I let all of my thoughts and memories vanish into thin air, I will lose my perspective of many things (i will save this for another post, another day). But other than this, I feel very free. And what more could I ever ask for after everything I have experienced.
Love and Peace to you!
Eden
EB
I”ll be SO HAPPY for you when you’re out of that HOUSE.
For Pete’s sake how long now???
Doin okay Eb, just not tonight. How’s things going with Jr.? Are the kiddos set up in the other house now or???
BIG HUGS EB! We miss you when you’re not here!
LL