By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Hi Michael,
Welcome to LF.
As Oxy said above……we ‘get it’…..
It’s not a game about who screams the loudest…….really!
Your going for the long term win of the war.
Continue to hold your head up high…..DO NOT contact or reach out to dupes who think she walks on water……they WILL see it – the truth- in the end.
It makes people wonder even more, and makes more of an impact when they figure things out on thier own, draw their own conclusions and see the truth for themselves………and not have it forced upon them.
you will look guilty by screaming from the rooftops of your innocence…..save that for court!
Bankrptcy, foreclosures and various law suits do not ‘appear’ abnormal to the ‘layman’.
If you had DV convictions, theft, burglary and /or other weight holding, felonious convictions, it might be a different story……..but her ‘background’ won’t convince anyone of her Spathyness.
It’s best to carry on in a hold your head high mannor……and let people ‘wonder’ why your not ‘in hiding’.
It’ll take self discipline and control on your part……and maybe about 1-2 years…..then people will see who YOU really are……….and the tide will turn.
If you must go covert……do only seed planting……but learn about that approach before you go there…….
You will never get the ONE DAY everyone will see the truth satisfaction…….you must trust that it’ll all come out in the wash.
It’s gradual and there is no ceremony……..
Good luck……
I suggest you take a gander around the articles on this subject and read others take on it from their experiences…….you’ll realize….what you’d like is not going to occur the way you’d like it to.
Bottom line……if YOU know you are none of these things she’s accused you of……that’s ALL that matters!!! For now.
EB
HOLY SHIAT!!! It sounds like things are starting to draw near to an end, let’s just hope this happens with the house soon, sounds to me you are LONG PAST READY FOR IT TO BE OVER!!!
Nice about Jr. though. Mine has been on his best (contrived) behavior lately and whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy is that? Yes, a new gf. And boy does she not take ANY SHIAT from him. He’s like a lamb. I’m not buying it. But for now, it works. No angry outburst, or anymore holes in doors for the time being. Amazing what influence a toughie girlie can have on a guy. I like her personally. I’m glad to hear Jr is distracted in a good way lol!
Things are gettin better EB!!
HUGS
LL
Dear Michael ~ Welcome to LF! As the others have stated above, it does take time. However, I will share a bit of my husband’s experience with you.
He was also falsely accused of DV by his Ex. There was a restraining order issued, etc. The great thing is, once he was away from SPATH Ex, people started approaching him. Many of their mutual “friends” actually knew what a psycho nasty person she was. Many of them are afraid of her, so will not openly admit that they are on my husband’s side. They have expressed their support of him privately. Even her mother absolutely loves my husband.
We do have to maintain some contact with Ex because of of a child. What we have found in our experience with her is, she always has someone in her sites. Even while torturing her current victim, she always has the next one lined up.
If you are patient, and BORING to her… she will probably move on to the next. Meanwhile, take care of yourself. Do your best to show no reaction to her whatsoever. Distance is a good thing.
And hey, if you feel the need to vent, this is a GREAT place to do it. All of us here are at some point on the healing journey, so we DO understand.
Sky
That was a great article!
Eden, I’m very very humbled. You’ve helped me a lot too and I so admire your strength and perseverence!
I look forward to continued friendship.
love and hugs.
LL
I thank all of you for your support and comments. I had NO idea how many of these jerks were out there and how many others who had been damaged much more than I had been.
It’s frustrating and unimaginable to me that there are parents/grandparents who continue to support and try to “save” lost causes. I guess it’s guilt for them believing they’ve not been a good enough parent that makes them blame themselves.
I, too, was in that category, but with a very good therapist learned that it was not my fault. It helps having two other sons, one of whom gave me a very rough time during his teens to early twentys. But that one amazed me by finishing college, grad school and has just joined the Peace Corps. So, I KNOW,
it wasn’t anything I did or didn’t do that turned him into a jerk.
Some of the research I did classifies a psychopath as being born that way and a sociopath as being turned into one by poor parenting, drugs, alcohol etc. I decided to dismiss that study because if that were so why did I not end up with 3 sp’s?
Here’s the odd thing. My x-son has had wonderful, normal, responsible, upstanding citizens with good educations, careers and families as friends since highschool. I spoke to one recently and wondered why they’re still friend because I was sure he’s screwed them over also. He answered that they all learned not to rely or depend on him for anything and to never have any financial dealings with him. But they enjoyed his company because he was entertaining and being with him was a lot of fun.
He’s never had a steady girlfriend and I hope that he never will. When he started dating a girl here it was mostly for sex and nothing serious would come out of it because he didn’t like the hours she worked and it impeded his life adversely. It was always about him. This town was too small to meet anyone who measured up to his standards. Yet he’d lived in San Fran for eight years and all of his friends there found life partners without difficulty.
The more I go back in time the more clearly I see problems developing as he grew up. ADHD is a factor.
He’d always been able to put on a good show for others. When he was 12 a parent said to me “S is the only friend I’d allow to spend the night/wkend with my son because he is so well mannered and behaved and always helpful.”
At one time S said to me “How come all of my friend parents think I’m so wonderful and you don’t?” I replied “It’s because I know the real you.”
When he was 15 he took my car to go joy riding with friends and when caught had no sense of having done anything wrong, no remorse what so ever. What troubled him was that he had gotten caught, not what he had done wrong.
He got into other situations with the law; DUI’s, vandalism, cheating at school and I never bailed him out, but let him suffer the consequences of his actions to teach him a lesson. I even had the police come and get him out of my house one Christmas Eve because he had brought drugs into the house and another time was providing alcohol to minors.
I was so glad when he finally moved across the country and had hoped he would mature out there. No such luck.
It took me a long time to learn this lesson, but I learned it well.
I cannot cut the ties with my other two sons because of him as Ox Drover suggests. They have just been made aware of the pain and heartache he has caused me. The youngest of the three actually confronted him in my defense. I only hope they will learn quickly that he also poses a threat to them, though there has never been any violence from him, I fear he will rely on their generosity and good nature to mooch money from them.
To lesson learned I say bravo for suspecting your 16y/o of being SP. Go with your gut feeling there. When my ex son showed no remorse for steeling my car to go joy riding and feeling bad only because he got caught I had a sudden flash of insight that he may be a SP/PP and looked it up in my ancient psychology textbook (I’m a retired nurse). But thatwas 20 years ago and the then 20 year old info I had at that time classified both as being violent, dangerous criminals, and he had never been violent towards people or animals, so I let that thought go. Too bad.
He’s really very strange in some ways. Perhaps cunning, manipulative and conniving would better describe him. His friends love him because he’s gone out of his way to be helpful, thoughtful and generous towards them. It seems like I’m the only one who does see the real cold, calculating, insensitive unemotional being behind the wall he surrounds himself with.
He can play it both ways. A real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde without the violence. That thought just now occurred me.
Hmn…….
I’m looking forward to many more interchanges, especially with parents of these miscreants.
Wow Ines deep story, glad you shared. EVERYONE is always in love with them until the discover and accept what they truly are.
INES,
This recent discovery is not a pleasant one for me, however, after reading so much here, I’m not clueless as to what my son could potential become. I want a FULL psych eval done on him first to see where we stand. If there are any serious personality disorders that come from the psych eval, i will sign off my parental rights.
That sounds cold and heartless, but I have been through this before with another of my son’s. He was found to have NO personality disorders, but has GAD and at the time, situational depression. He was treated and is an amazing young man today.
This one, lies, manipulates and is violent. Currently, Jr. has a girlfriend who isn’t putting up with his shiat. We’ll see how long that lasts, but I see how he manipulates her too. He is ADHD, has been diagnosed as such, but medications for that did not alleviate his deviant behavior.
I’m prepared to what I must do. If the psych eval comes back with something other than a personality disorder that is incurable then we will come up with a plan as to how to treat my son.
Until that happens, there is little that I can do, other than to continue to enforce my rules and boundaries. he knows he’s on thin ice here and I’m not putting up with anymore of junior’s shit.
As far as you having told your other son’s INES, not sure how I feel about that. ALthough I do believe the truth is necessary, but if your boys are grown now, it will ultimately be up to them to determine what kind of relaitnoship, if any, they can tolerate with their brother. I think you already know this and mentioned it though.
Time will show you how they integrate the information.
I think you’re doing a fantastic job.
LL
Dear Ines,
Yep, lots of nurses here and doctors too. Lots of SMART people. I’m a retired advanced practice nurse…Some of the psychopaths (BTW socio/psycho-paths are essentially the same thing, the professionals can’t get their act together about the NAME for the problem, also “anti-social personality disorder” is the current DSM-IV “diagnosis” but whatever you want to call them they are TOXIC. Some are more toxic and more violent than others, and some are more cunning and charming than others. Mine is not charming or cunning in person to anyone with any class…he’s been in prison for 20+ years and his SOCIAL SKILLS are on the level of prison, not free world. He wasn’t raised that way, he was VERY charming as a child, but now is institutionalized to the prison cant as well as his macho posturing and such. He can quote the Bible and all kinds of philosophy, he is very bright, but just doesn’t “get it”—very manipulative too.
My egg donor (formerly “mother”) controls her controlling rages well so that everyone in the world except my two other sons think she is some kind of saint. My P son has her manipulated.
None of us have anything to do with her any more and won’t as long as she is sending money to P son and supporting him.
Ines,
can I ask, which son is the P? Oldest, middle or youngest?
Family dynamics may play a part in the creation of the spath child. My only brother and my little sister are P’s but my oldest sister and myself are not. I do blame my parents though because they treated us differently and they did damage all of us, just in different ways.
I’m not saying that your P son is your fault, I’m just always looking to understand the dynamics that create spath thinking.
It does start with them getting stuck in infantile thinking. They believe that the source of all power comes from manipulating mommy. Then they continue that line of thinking all their lives, but they look to manipulate other authorities. In the case of women, they look to manipulate responsible women with their shit together, because that resembles authority too. They want to stay children but that can only happen if they have an adult who will take care of them.
It’s interesting that you didn’t enable him or bail him out of trouble, yet he still became a spath. I’m curious, at what age did you notice he started to manipulate his friends’ parents.
I know you missed my previous post:
I don’t believe I have properly thanked those of you who have taken time to seriously consider my problems and write such thorough responses. They are all greatly appreciated.
I have not said anything about either of the previous issues to Jerkface.
Looking through our agreement I realized that it reads, “Any communication between the parties that is necessary shall be contained ina written journal”and the substance of the writings shall be limited to matters relating to Jr,—
The papers were just certified March 29, but up until then we communicated through email regarding vacation times, exchanges etc. I want this to stop.
He writes nothing in the journal but sends me copious and lengthy emails.
Should I tell him to write such things in the journal?
Thanks again.
Have a good night.
FAD