By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Peace out to ya’ll. I gotta hit the sack so I can apply for jobs in the A.M. Plus I gotta get my beauty sleep so I can look gorgeous for the girl tomorrow night. 🙂 🙂
2B;
I see a lot of unneccessary drama your inviting into your already compicated life right now.
Why on earth would you be fantasizing about contemplating a relationship with a woman who is being nice to you, a friend……you need a friend more than a potential lover currently and your not even sure if she’s gay/bi or interested?
You’ve gone around the block with this fantasy…..making yourself look good for this woman and even contemplating a long distance thing.
Keep it simple girl……keep focused on what you really have to do with your life…..ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Your vulnerable right now…..jsut take care of YOU!
A relationship is NOT what you need right now, nor the distraction your giving yourself in the form of a mind fuck of is she/isn’t she…..blah, blah…..
Your placing your self worth and esteem in the posession of another person……….DANGEROUS MOVE!!!!
I’m sorry to be a buzz kill…….but your way too fragile to be walking in THAT garden.
It’s a fantasy, an escape from your reality…….
If you want your reality to change……it’s YOU that must change it, which takes focus and energy and ACTION…..NOT a diversion
Think about what your doing…..and get back in focus.
Give more to YOU.
XXOO
EB
EB-thanks. Can I ask a favor though? Please don’t take this wrong-if you want to shorten my name, please do it to something else other than 2B, because there is already someone else on here who is known by that name and we are really different. I don’t want anyone to get us confused.
eb 2b 3b doobie ~! Yeah miss erin – we dont want no confusion on here – BOINK~!
Henry-you changed your name AGAIN? You’re confusing me!
Dear Nolarn,
Darling I am going to have to weigh in on this one with Ms ErinBrock, you are makin WAAAAAYYYYY TOO MUCH DRAMA when you are in a mess financially and with your job and emotions and still recovering over all the past P-relation-shit and it sounds frankly to me like you are looking at this woman as a LIFE BOAT out of your lack of money for rent….And I don’t mean that you are trying to prey on her, just that you see it as something that might save you.
If we are drowning in a flood and we see what looks like a LOG flat by we tend to GRAB at it….but too many times it turns out to be an ALLIGATOR….and I think this woman you are talking about has more to me the appearance of an alligator than a log, and I think you are sounding pretty financially and emotionally needy and desperate.
There is nothing to be ashamed of in being financially or emotionally needy and desperate…I HAVE BEEN ALL THOSE THINGS AND MORE….but every time I thought I had a LOG float by to save me it turned out to be an ALLIGATOR and bit me in the butt…my suggestion is to focus on your PROBLEMS and how to solve them, rather than on a relationship that might be a log to save you from your financial problems or a place to stay….especially one where you are not totally sure if you are bi, gay or straight! I think NOW while things are up in the air is a poor time to try to solve all these problems at ONCE.
We’ve all got big “onions” to peel and figure out….but we just have to take ONE layer at a time…and tryin to figure out your sexuality, finances, job, health and weight loss issues, career change, etc. at ONE TIME…..I think is wayyyyy too much to bite off at once. There’s plenty of time to tackle them one at a time….even at my age….I’m tackling them one at a time. More than one is too big a bite…I choke on it…like trying to eat a whole cow….you can do it, but you just don’t try to cram the whole thing in your mouth at once! (((hugs)))
Oxy,
did you get my email. all the best for the radio interview. will you be doing it from home or do you have to go to a studio.
petite
Nolarn, I feel for you having feelings for your neighbor and what a huge risk it would be to let her know your feelings. Your relationship with her reminds me of a movie with K.D. Lang (yes, she acts, too) that takes place in Alaska about two women who became close friends. One (I think) had never dated a woman before. They became very close and became romantically involved and helped each other through some difficult times in life. The KD Lang character was very nervous because she wasn’t sure if the other woman could fall for another woman. The woman was also much older than the KD Lang character. She was struggling with a lot of issues at the time and needed to find her identity. The other woman helped her, and the relationship brought her out of her shell after being very troubled her entire life. KD Lang did an amazing job with the acting, being lesbian in real life. It’s a really good movie and of course, the music is fabulous with KD Lang’s music. She is one of my favorite singers.
I disagree, respectfully, with others here that you shouldn’t be getting involved with someone. I think sometimes a good relationship can help us through tough times and uplift us! I don’t think people have to have their lives completely together to be in relationships. Only you can know whether or not you are ready and appropriate to a relationship. But then I’m a Libra and a very relationship-oriented person, so take it for what it’s worth. I have been in so many relationships before I was ever really “ready” and I’m still not “ready” in many ways. But I grew and learned so much from them. With a few exceptions, I have no regrets. I think it is the way we view ourselves that keeps us limited and lonely. I believed I was unable to have real intimacy with someone last summer after the first fiasco with the neighbor. I was so down on myself and felt like crap. But I surprised myself by having an amazing vacation relationship in Costa Rica that showed me what is possible and what I am capable of. I think we are limited ONLY by our own beliefs. I know my opinions are not the most popular here. But I think so many people view themselves as screwed up, sick, or unworthy, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s different to take some time to be alone after a traumatic relationship like with a sociopath. It’s also good to have tools for introspection and communication. But none of us here are any more “screwed up” than the rest of the population out there. Most people seem fairly unconscious. If it feels good to get close to someone, what is wrong with that? We should be identifying and doing what feels good. The problem is when we become addicted to things that don’t feel good, like sociopaths or other bad people.
Would you mind my asking whatever happened with the work situation? Did you gather enough evidence to take them to court?
Hi LL and Sky,
sorry, I think May is not possible. I have a lot at work and getting leave will be difficult. I must say, I am very eager to meet both of you and hence last weekend, I looked up the dates which I thought were possible ( I do not have the work calendar at home), but on checking at work today, looks like it is not possible. Oxy cannot make it in May as her son will be away on summer camp and she has to take care of the farm.
so, I think we can consider after July, as Sky has to go for a trade show in July.
till then we will chat on the LF site and keep giving strength to each other.
petite
Star-thank you SO much. I think you can appreciate where I’m at right now. The issue with work is that I am still unemployed and desperately searching for nursing jobs. I was denied unemployment by the former employer and it is in appeal. There will be a hearing scheduled soon where I can present all my documentation. An attorney says that a case for retaliation/defamation would be extremely hard to win due to the fact that they did so much to me behind closed doors-w/o witnesses. I have only been given 1 in person interview for nursing jobs out of like 75 applications out. It went to a second interview and they seemed to go well but I haven’t heard back and they said they hadn’t made a decision yet. I have only had 4 phone interviews. All of them were unsuccessful except 1. The manager has my paperwork but has not called me. This particular place is notoriously slow. It took a month after I applied to get the initial interview. I am essentially blacklisted I fear due to being terminated. I have come to the realization that my exit from nursing may be now-instead of waiting for the planned one for when I go to the police. I talked to my police boss from before and she is going to be a reference and I am applying for armed security and 911 dispatch jobs. It will pay a lot less than nursing but at least it’s something and if I have to work more than one job, than so be it. I also am looking into finding out how I can start myself into singing wedding ceremonies, since I have classical voice training as well. That could pay me pretty decent on the side. I just have to figure out how to get it started up.
As for the lady issue-I know you understand. I have been alone for 2 years after the spath and that relationship is gone. It’s like it didn’t exist. Believe me, I didn’t expect or plan to feel the way I do about ANYONE right now. I chose awhile back to stay completely single until I became a police officer and just focus on career and nothing else. I am a virgo and relationships can be put off for us. We can go for long periods w/o having them if we choose and we don’t just fall for people easy or jump into things. I can’t explain this right now. I don’t see this woman as a lifeboat and she has absolutely nothing to do with my finances at all and she wouldn’t be a place for me to stay. I will have to go where work is. Her mother lives a couple hours away in Alabama and she asked me if I considered looking for work over there if I couldn’t find it here. At least then, she could see me there when she went to her mom’s. I really really did not plan to feel this kind of feelings again. I know for a fact that I am bisexual. I just never really told that here on lovefraud-it wasn’t necessary at the time. People who are bi tend to get a bad rap-especially with lesbians cuz they think we like to hop back and forth over the fence. I am NOT like that. I have only had one relationship with a woman and she was a narcissist. After her was my ex spath- a man. I wondered at first if maybe the girl thing was only a phase. Apparently it wasn’t. I have always been attracted to them since I was younger. I have a very protective instinct with this woman-even though I am very feminine, I feel a little bit like a guy. I feel very strong right now, except for this problem of being unemployed. I am eating right and working out. I have this strong desire to take care of her. I always open doors for her and when we go places I walk close to the street and keep her on the inside and I’ll pull out her chair for her. I help her carry things that are heavy. Trust me, at this point in my life, this is the last thing that I ever expected to happen.