By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Star,
Ahh, ok. Got it.
Thanks.
its been a little over a month since i’ve heard from my spath. in the past 4-5 months since our split, this is the longest i’ve gone without a peep from him.
i think it means he has moved on for sure, he does not need to keep me on the line anymore. for some reason that is very hurtful to me. he tossed me aside like nothing when i started to call him out on his behaviors, but i guess i felt like when he was always trying to cmmunicate with me on some tiny level, that it showed he knew he was wrong. i realize it was just so i would still be “waiting” if things didnt work out with whomever he found next, but i want to believe he cared just the tiiiiiniest bit….
he’d asked to see me about a month ago, said he had a lot of things he needed to explain. i told him i could not see him, but he could write to me instead. i didn’t play along with what he wanted, so he never said another word. every day i wonder what he had to say, every day i wonder if i made a mistake by not agreeing to see him, i wonder if i should ask, i wonder if i’d feel better if i heard whatever it is that was so important that he ruined my birthday by using it as an excuse to get in tough with me, telling me how badly he needed to talk to me and was wporried about me.
i should be happy that he has left me alone for this long, i shuold feel freedom to move on without worrying when he’ll pop up next with some guilt trip.
but instead i am randomly bursting into tears. i feel more loss now that i think hes really truly gone than i ever did. sometimes i feel like i love him, which i never felt in the short time we were together.
the past week or so had been really good, i felt strong and proud of myself. i dont understand what brings on the mood swings about this guy.
i feel so flawed that the least human person i’ve ever known has so much power over me. i feel like its proof that he was right when he told me i was a lunatic. i know how i am feeling was exactly what he was aiming for. i dont let him know how crazy he’s made me feel.
but so often i feel like reaching out to him is the only thing that will make me feel better. i KNOW thats not true, but how do i get myself to stop feeling like that’s what i need??
when does staying NC go from feeling wrong, feeling like something i regret because each day that passes is one i’m further away from having a chance to see if this could ever work, to feeling like it should, like something to be proud of and happy about because it means i’m not letting someone walk all over me?
The interview is on an internet radio and will be available later on pod cast. I will send everyone the URL….
There are very inexpensive ways to travel….back packing tent either walking or on a bike…camping along the way….there are state parks and even freebie areas you can stop in that are NO fee or very low fee…my kids and I spent an entire summer camping in back packing equipment ot of the back of a car…we went all ov er the North west….montana, wyoming, N/S dakota Colorado and Kansas most of the time if we were not in bear country we had nice places to camp that were totally free…we spent 1-2 nights in a motel once when there was a bad hail storm predicted in our area we were in….and a few nights in bear country paid a camp fee for a national park….there are some CUTE tiny little camper trailers that will tow behind a MC or a small car and Wal Marts across the country allow you to park free in their parking lots over night…believe me you can LIVE on the road if that’s your desire…and there are actually HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF FOLKS WHO DO…..plus the people who live in the BIG “tin teepees” that look like box cars rolling down the road behind big trucks.
There are all kinds of “alternate travel” and “alternate living” situations out there that most of us just don’t realize are there.
It is amazing how little you really need when you pare down to just what you actually NEED AND USE….when I moved from this farm and 4 bed room house into a 33 ft 5th wheel RV trailer, I had ALL the comforts of home including air conditioner, TV, DVD stereo, central heat, shower, dressing room, queen sized bed, oven stove top, nice refrigerator, a room for son D…and in a pinch could fold out and sleep 6 more besides ourselves. I lived in that RV for 6 months quite comfortably….it hooks up to utilities just like your house does, OR it runs on self contained water and propane and holding tanks for sewage independently at least for a while…but cost of living is VERY VERY LOW…So more and more people are opting for RV-portable living conditions and lots of time if you will help out around a “park” you can trade a day or two of labor around the place for weekly rental and utility fees. Many cities where you have to pay to park, or set up on a permanent basis the parks charge $300+ per month and that usually includes utilities but still pretty cheap for rent.
Good morning, Sky, Regarding your previous post to me last night (on previous page), I have to ask you… Were you serious when you said that I should go beg him to make him feel better? That doesn’t sound like you and I can’t imagine ever doing that. Aren’t I supposed to just run in the opposite direction, as I have done? Do tell!
Sky, would you mind addressing my inquiry about the possibility of an N/P not having the pitty ploy element. Have you read anything about this? Because this recent incident did not include a pitty ploy. My P, definitely did, so I know all about that. Thank you for your insight and input! I really appreciate it!
Thank you!
Eden
today is the pits. even seeing his common-word name in a post gives me a physical upset feeling and sends me right to tears.
Oxy,did you see my earlier post to you, or did you miss it?
You haven’t responded, so I got to thinking it might have sounded kind of weird because I ta;ked about plants and headstones. No subversive content ontended, though. I really spent my week-end that way.
Just really wanted to say thank-you for being kind to me last week during my emotional blow out. I really appreciate it.
Agreenbean, I’m sorry you are feeling so sad today. It does get better.
Just remember that even if you had talked to him, nothing would have changed. You would probably caved and let him back into your life, and he would have continued to treat you the way he always has. You would be merely post-poning the inevitable because you would have to go through it all over again starting at ground zero.
(((((((((((( greenbean ))))))))))))
I understand exactly how you feel. There is some sort of “self empowerment” when we realize what they are and want to move away from it and we make the effort to do that, but when the spath finally decides to move on (ie: another victim), we fall apart. We start to miss them, burst into tears, get very depressed….
I understand this because I’ve been dealing with this all morning too. I’ve been out four and a half months. He has not contacted me again since the first week in March. And even with that, I told him to leave me alone and NEVER to contact me again, overt or covert. He has another victim now, so it keeps him busy.
Greenbean, this process is very painful. When thinking about why it’s so hard when it finally really is OVER, I have a vague idea as to why it’s more painful for those coming out of P relationship.
Boundary Violations. That’s part of the brain washing they do to us while in relationship. In every single way, they violate our boundaries, push the envelope. We begin to feel it’s “love” when we have an argument and he comes back only to love bomb or guilt trip us again or (mine was notorious for this) act as if nothing ever happened. It’s apart of the process of letting go of a sick, addicted relationship. I think this is why it feels like it becomes more difficult the further out we get in the first year. He’s not coming back. He’s moved on. That part of the cycle is ended and it’s the last one.
I know it hurts a lot. Mine was ten years long and it sometimes feels like the pain is worse everyday in trying to cope with the reality that he really is gone, rather than bargaining it away….
greenbean, I have felt SO desperate for what were his attempts to hook me back, that I’ve almost contacted him too.
But I don’t. And I can’t. I can’t because I know what it means if I do. He would hurt me. Emotionally try to hook and destroy me. He has another victim now, so I would get it even worse. it’s not worth it.
I’m in enough pain, I don’t need to contact him and add more to it. Neither do you greenbean. It’s okay to cry and feel sad. It’s apart of the process too, but when you think about contacting him, think about the reasons why you got out in the first place. Would you really want to go back?
LL
agreenbean – what’s going on here girl? Dry those tears and exercise those smile muscles. Sounds like you’re bargaining with yourself to me. If I do this or if I’d done that, or maybe the other…….he would apologise and we would live happily ever after. Then in your post you show that you KNOW it would not be any different.
He will NEVER change. He’s off with his new victim. Let him go. The tears are all part of the grieving process. You were triggered, but every day you WILL get stronger.
He wanted to talk to hook you in, he wanted a quick ‘fix’ then and there. And well done you, you did not oblige by speaking to him. Then hey presto he forgets about you in the same puff of wind. And off he goes again. You are worth more than this heap of shite. You are a good and caring person. Spoil yourself.
It WILL get easier. Keep yourself busy….maybe offer the newbies here some help.
EDEN! NO!
I was joking! Sorry, my jokes were of the self-pitying type: I said “If I were you”, maybe I should have said, “if you were me” because I’m having a pity party for myself. The pity party is because I know how easily manipulated I am and I hate it. So what I meant, is that I would easily be manipulated into begging to do anything to stop his pain.
My pity party is not to be confused with the pity ploy. LOL! because it’s a party of one. ROTFLOL!
As far as your recent incident of the narcissist without the pity ploy, yes, sometimes they don’t use the pity ploy, when they’re using the charm or rage.
But you say you’ve known him a long time and you’ve never seen him use the pity ploy. Maybe you missed it? Maybe it’s hidden in a different tact.
I’m trying to think of a narcissist whom I’ve known that DOESN’T use the pity ploy. Until recently I would say my father, a narcissist, has never cried or looked for pity in his life. Except, when we were growing up, he would go on and on about how hard it was to raise kids and how hard he had to work and how ungrateful we were. That’s a pity ploy, but kind of hidden under a martyr complex. I learned my own martyr complex from both my parents.
So Dad USUALLY took on the role of superman, and was very macho and also charming and a tough guy too. Now, I’m sorry that I reduce him to tears everytime he sees me. It’s guilt. Then I cry. Only my mom doesn’t cry. I don’t know what she is. But I avoid them both because all I want to do is make them feel better, while they do nothing to make me feel better.
If you can tell me more about your friend’s behaviors, I would try to look at them objectively and see if there were any red flags.