By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Back atcha EB. 🙂
Star,
There are a lot of things to consider in moving to other countries, and one of them is the political situation…then there is medical care, availability, and price…support (friends there or other ex pats to help you with information and getting settled) how to produce an income if you need to, and just all kinds of things that I would think about now, that I would never have even thought about when I was much younger. Also, thinking about what if you get there and decide to come home…? Where do you go, how do you get yourself set back up again? Keeping money SAFELY put back for emergencies…I guess maybe I am about tired of moving around the world (and the US) …did it when I was young and it was fun and I saw no dangers (even where I should have) so I guess I’ll just stay in Arkansas even if I have to leave the farm…or maybe one of the near by states…even if I end up living in my “tin teepee” as my living history calls the RV trailers or motor homes! Boy we saw some awesome (and expensive ones) HUGE ones, out at the state park last weekend. Whooooooie! Mega bucks….but whatever floats your boat!
Yes, it’s true, Oxy. I have been researching all of this for quite a while in anticipation of my eventual move. I would not go out there without a job in place, which will be teaching English. I will be guaranteed a job from the TESL school or my money back.
Health care is ridiculously cheap in Central and South America, and this is one of the benefits of living there. My prospects here in this country are actually much bleaker, especially financially as I get older.
You mentioned deciding to come “home.” What home? I do not consider Denver my “home” nor do I have any family or friends I could even stay with here. I have no retirement income, nor will I ever have any equity in my little condo. And once I walk away from this condo, my credit will be ruined, which will make matters worse here in the states. There would be no reason for me to come back. With a huge expatriate population overseas, I could be very well connected. It’s very easy to do there; I make friends very easily. I don’t see any reason to have any major fear over this; more and more people are doing it all the time. It is actually a creative solution to economic downturn in this country for those of us who are caught in it with no way out.
It is relatively easy to bring money into a foreign country. I will never have enough of it for it to become a cause for concern. You do not need to worry about me, Oxy. This is a very rational, sane, and thought-out plan for my future. And one which I’m very excited about! I hope I am still blogging here at that time – I’ll give you all the rundown. 🙂
nolarn2bcop – i’ll give you a high 5 on the n/spath paradigm of women i have been involved with – even the one i didn’t KNOW was a woman 😉
i am concerned….(that’s how we nosy old biddies start our sentences) about your wanting to to take care of her, and focusing on how hard is to not have a job considering this desire. Okay, i might read this wrong, and you might not have been so eloquent in your explanation, BUT…THIS IS A BIG RED FLAG! UNHEAHLTHY> I felt EXACTLY this was about my n ex – it actually hurt physically that i couldn’t do more for her. And really I needed to be doing more FOR ME.
Keep your eye on the prize erin. I know she looks like a lovely distraction right now, but i think that’s all the more reason to focus on yourself.
I have a huge problem with hormones in the spring time. I get all ‘rabbit’ – i recently felt my hormones go into overdrive after some interactions with someone i have known very casually for about a year. no frigging way. i am locking myself in the house. wham – in five minutes i compeltely lost my mind. i have soo much shit to deal with and deal with it i must. and no, i don’t ‘deserve’ that kind of fun. I have been thrown off my access so severely in the last 2 years, and i am not going to follow my bouncing hormones.
you also posted about her not paying attention to you on an outing and that you would do the same at a future event (BTW – if she is organizing the event she probably won’t have time to spend with you at the event)…erin – this is a game. don’t play games. nu uh.
Dear Star,
Nah, sugar I wasn’t worrying about you—I think you are a BIG GIRL and can make your own decisions! Sorry if I sounded like I was worrying…I was just thinking out of my fingers (I started to say thinking out loud! LOL) That indeed may be the solution for you….I know there are lots of countries and Panama is one in which they encourage retirees to come there and if you have a few bucks they will give you all kinds of benefits…I have actually done several searches on various countries and what they require to give you the “bennies” of going there as a retiree. So, no, I don’t think you are crazy at all.
I have several friends who have gone ex pat to various places for various reasons…and one of my favorite political writers is an American Ex pat named Fred Reed who writes a blog called http://www.fredoneverything.com he is reallllllly funny! He lives in Mexico, but I will pass on Mexico now with all the stuff going on there though at one time I would have considered it highly.
The only thing I do suggest though is, it is NOT A GOOD IDEA TO BE IN ANY FOREIGN COUNTRY without enough resources to get back to the states if you need to….i.e. do NOT BE BROKE in another country.
Tobecop,
One/Joy’s post was on target.
I’m like you, I want to take care of others. It isn’t healthy.
I know it feels right to you. It does to me too. I KNOW it’s wrong. It’s a form of control. It’s not adult. I can’t stop how I feel. I want to though.
Skylar,
Thank you so much for your reply! No worries. For some reason I usually do not get jokes or scarcasm until I am told that it was a joke or a sarcastic remark (not good if being played by an N,S or P). I did think that what you say above was possible, but that is why I asked if you had been serious, as I do know how you would normally advise me (not that it is your job, of course). I truly appreciate you taking the time to write and express what you have! I learn so much more about you and your past when you reply to my enquiries. I went NC, at the first sign of a red flag. I would rather be NC and incorrect in my thinking, while trying to assess, than still in contact and getting further abused. I still feel very confident that what I saw had occured, truly did, and that I am not confused, so I am not having regrets per se, but I am now so curious about how he could have taken advantage of my vulnerability(s) for his own personal gain (control). Yes I do know that I would need to be more specific, in order for you to gain a better perspective of the situation. Thank you, however for your help with my pity ploy enquiry.
Much love,
Eden
Kim F,
Thank you for your input regaurding my inquiry, as well! All that you said makes so much sense! I appreciate it.
Much love,
Eden
((((Sky)))) – i love your honesty:
‘I know it feels right to you. It does to me too. I KNOW it’s wrong. It’s a form of control. It’s not adult. I can’t stop how I feel. I want to though.’
I was just sitting here musing about that give till you drop thing. How if people wanted give as much as WE want to give, then a) we would run screaming in fright, and b) we would be completely enmeshed (aka ‘in love’). eek.
and you are right, it is horribly controlling. i was just thinking about my mom and how much she wants to fix/help (she’s not quite a ‘giver’) and how terribly controlling it was – because she had her own agenda – she wasn’t into saying, ‘and what do you need/ want one joy?’ I never asked for anything when i was younger. it wasn’t until i was in my 40’s that i could ask. and now, well, she can’t give now.
i remember being so hurt when i realized that all the years of ‘we can’t help you because we have no money’ was no longer true (because they had a whack of it at that point), but it was that the n sire wouldn’t help. Not that i asked – i was trained not to want, not to ask. When i started to ask my mom was shocked. she said to me, ‘ you never needed our help, so i never thought to offer’. Well, that’s just great, good to know i have my martyr cred.
all these ‘can’t, don’t, won’t’ scenarios…it’s all so curious.
i give like i am nuts. 🙂 i don’t feel right unless i can give. i was baking yesterday and i realized i have no one to share it with. damn. I like to share. but it is pathological – when i see it out of context (i don’t have anyone to share with and i am about to run down the street to ask the guy digging up the road if he’d like some pie kinda thing – okay, i am exaggerating, but i do see how hard it is not to share.)
i do it with my friends, and i do it because i want to be friends – but right now it looks way out of place. oh, i don’t know….i know that i need peeps in my life i can share with. i think it’s harder, i feel more like a freak when there is hostility around me – my giving seems warped then. and right now there is hostility here…with the db upstairs and the landlord has moved his crazy step son back into the building (the one who freaked me out a year ago last feb.)
okay, now i am just sad. i feel a bit confused, and that my post might be a bit confusing. it’s not black and white as some giving = good, and some = dysfunctional. before the spath I gave a lot more in a casual way than most people i know, and i like that. it was about extending good will.
now, now people are doing great if i don’t give them dark looks. man, i have so much healing to do! I don’t want to be like this anymore. it’s been so hard lately. i am going to a group this week – wanted to go last week, but i got too jumbled up other obligations and anxiety over them. but the group is a grief group – many people there will be terminally ill. i think this is the first time in my life that i want to avoid strong emotion – although i know to be in the presence of it, and expressing my own is the safest place i know. funny, how the spath fucked this up for me, too. the poor dying boy, so fraught, so much in need of my ability to be present with grief. *c*.
um, and i have a few anger issues now. 😉
seeing the affects of what she did to me enrages me. it’s quite spectacular. Zero to enraged in .5 seconds. Zero to crazy in .3 seconds. Not sure what i can do with this anger. so much around me just pisses me off – family, housing, health, shitty people. Exhale. Exhale. Exhale.
(( Onesy ))) you sound great today!
Sky….
I am really understanding this conversation.
Onesy “Not sure what I can do with this anger. so much around me just pisses me off- family, housing, health, shitty people. Exhale, Exhale. Exhale.
I’m a huge giver too. If I can’t give of myself or monetarily, I feel like an utter failure. Where does THAT come from? Dunno, part of wanting to give isn’t entirely selfless, it’s about control too, but also about validation. I had to give growing up, sexually, physically, emotionally, spiritually….I was PRIMED to be a giver in that I understood that that was what my role was. Stepdaddy wants to molest. Give. Mom wants house scrubbed. Give. Mom wants to scream yell call me a liar (often) given (listen). Spath sissy feels like provoking me to get me into trouble, eh, give. Ex P hubby and spath, want food on the table and sex, give. Kids want money. eh give. Kids that don’t have a home, eh, give. Neighbors who are needing to borrow, eh, give. A dying family member, eh, give. So you can see all of this giving isn’t entirely healthy. A few things were, most not.
when I went back to school, and was forced to GIVE to myself, homework, rest, school, homework< I started feeling guilty and selfish because ex spath was not getting the attention he needed so the demands were more. I felt guilty if the kids just got soup and sandwiches for dinner. I felt guilty when I had to spend hours in my room studying…..but through all of that, in trying to take care of me, or do something new, I began to feel RESENTFUL towards giving at all anymore!!!
I was exhausted from it!
I haven't a clue as to how to give to myself now that spath is gone. My motivation is over. During DV group last week, I mentioned that not only did I feel like he WAS the lie, but that my entire LIFE had been a lie……because even when it was demanded that I give, I didn't want too, but did it anyway, then got pissed off about it, realizing it was coming from guilt, and that part of it was also CONTROL.
Fun stuff here.
Right now, "Giving" means I go to my group, I go to therapy, I clean my house, take a shower everyday, blog here, make phone calls to take care of whatever business I need too, answer my emails, take my dogs out, make dinner for my sons, make sure they get homework done if they have it, talk about their day. Eat, bed.
And I have NEVER felt so selfish and so EMPTY either in my whole life.
I'm glad you two brought this up. Your insights always provoke a lot of thought for me.
LL