By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
LL – unless you told her that you had intimidated the last therapist, then she was projecting her sense of intimidation.
personally, i wouldn’t touch CT with a 10 foot pole either. i saw a guy who used it it when i first figured out that the spath had been lying to me and that the fake boy was not dead. (i didn’t know that the fake boy was a woman or who she was at that point). the LAST thing i needed was yet another person messing with my sense of reality. i only saw this guy as no one else was available and free. i had no money, and no way to pay for treatment.
what you are is empowered (not sane ;)), and i would think that most therapists don’t see a whole lot of that. the feisty ones (i am one) are more challenging to the dependence paradigm that most therapists work within. if she’s intrigued, yay, if she feels a need to go all CT on you, you know what to do with her. 😉
nola – No one is saying there is anything wrong with wanting to do nice things and wanting to kiss on her. we are doing what we do here: look out for one another. we are just responding to what you write and how you write it and are trying to help you stay/ get focused on taking care of lovely you. XXXX there, one step is kissing on you!
peace out all.
Ya’ll-I really am taking care of me but it’s so hard not having the job right now. For me, I am eating healthy and working out and getting better sleep and leaning on God and trying not to panic so much. The thing is, I am a nurse and future cop and that involves being a caretaker/protector of others-especially those I care about. I do care about her a lot-she’s really special and yes I do have a big fat crush on her. It makes me feel good while I am searching for jobs and trying to stay busy to show her some respect and treat her like a lady. When a guy likes a girl he does certain actions to show her how much he likes her. Actions speak louder than words. Actions are more important than words too. That’s one thing I learned after the whole drama with the ex spath. I watch what people do, not what they say. And I gotta say I love her huggin on me cuz she’s so freakin beautiful!
2 cop.
I guess the bigger question for me is how does she treat YOU?
It bothered me that you said she basically blew you off at a function. It’s possible that whatever you’re feeling for her she does not for you.
I think excusing that reality away with what YOU feel, is dangerous.
We all care for you here. If you post about something, unless you say not too, that means we give feedback.
If you’re hanging onto what someone does, rather than what they say, how she blew you off is very indicative of how she really “feels”. I believe this is your crush, not hers.
You have a lot to deal with. A lot going on. I’m not saying that you can’t feel for another, but I think it’s super important that you consider and give thought to how you are also treated.
LL
One,
I absolutely totally agree. If there is emphasis only on CT, I’m out the door.
I never mentioned having seen another therapist.
I think I’ve probably been here too much lol!
Anyway……
I’m not afarid to walk out the door on this one. I also have a back up plan with another therapist who labels herself “eclectic’.
She’s dealt with spaths, trauma, PTSD, depression, bi polar, you name it.
When I asked this therapist if she though personality disorders were curable she said that they thought htey could be managed……….in particular, NPD…..but only if they wanna be.
Well, shit. Trial and error in the department of therapeutic services. If she believes personality disoders can be treated, such as the severity of psychopathy, sociopathy and narcissism, I’m hitting the road.
Rest well one.
LL
Hi Onejoy and LL,
interesting conversation.
I’ve had lots of thought on it but I’m afraid to say some of it for fear that if I don’t say it exactly right it would be misunderstood.
Giving feels really good. Taking, is nice but not as good, because it makes me want to give back. I have always known that the American Indians of the Pacific NW had a custom called Potlatch. It was a ceremony where a person would give away all their belongings to others. It was a huge celebration to just give and give. I really don’t know much about it and was never very interested. But recently I heard something new about it. It was considered a form of WARFARE. I heard that the Canadian Government BANNED it because it was causing so much destruction to the economic stability of the region.
It’s hard to understand, but apparently, one mega-potlatch created the need for a BIGGER RIVAL potlatch. In a way it was like INFLATION is today. The people valued the act of giving to the point where it could be used the way we use the act of ACCUMULATING today: to drive people into bankruptcy. It’s interesting that accumulating and giving can be used in the same way. What I’ve learned from studying sociopathy is that culture is a HUGE part of our personalities and we are much more programmed in our values than we would like to believe.
Then there is the white elephant story… did I read that here, or somewhere else?
well basically if you wanted to drive someone into bankruptcy you could start by giving them a white elephant. It’s a cultural thing:
“Because the animals were considered sacred and laws protected them from labor, receiving a gift of a white elephant from a monarch was simultaneously both a blessing and a curse: a blessing because the animal was sacred and a sign of the monarch’s favour, and a curse because the animal had to be retained and could not be put to much practical use, but cost a significant amount to maintain.”
I’m starting to digress.
I guess my point is that we need to look at our “giving” and see the underlying motive under it. Then find a better way to achieve that. Unfortunately, when you’ve been programmed to give in order to recieive, it’s not an intellectual exercise to dislodge the programming. The subconscious believes what it will, and I’m not sure how to change it.
LL-I don’t know yet how she feels because it is too soon to know. I won’t know until I know if I am staying here or if I have to move. I think that she is somewhat concerned in getting too close to me in the event that I have to go. She doesn’t want me to go-this I know and she is trying to help me find a job to keep me here. Last night I definitely didn’t get the attention from her that I thought I was going to be getting since her other friend went to dinner with us. I found out that this other lady happened to call her and ask her to go to dinner but she had already asked me-that’s how all three of us ended up going. I didn’t know this other lady at all and they knew each other forever. My girl is quite a bit older than me and when we are alone, that age difference doesn’t exist to me. This other lady definitely shows that age and it didn’t feel the same. I was disappointed that it ended up being the three of us because I wanted that time for us one on one to get to know each other better.
Tonight was different. I went to the other business dinner that she asked me to and it was normal-the way we always are together. She was excited to see me when I walked into the room and greeted me as always with a huge hug and a kiss. She doesn’t hug me like someone who isn’t interested. As soon as she let go of me she asked if I was ok. I wasn’t my usual confident self cuz of fluid retention and my clothes were too tight. I didn’t hug her right and she knew it. We had a good time.
I will have to treat it as one sided I guess until I know otherwise but sometimes I get subtle little hints from her. I am just enjoying spending time with her right now and I am praying everyday that I get a job so that I can stay in my lovely home and get to know her better.
LL,
Good for you for being discriminating about your therapist. I wouldn’t want a therapist who was intimidated by me either! The therapists I have been to lately, I’ve found my feelings just pouring out with them. They seem to work in a very direct and effective way. The hypnotist lady continued to question me until I got right into my pain. She was fabulous. She kept asking me what I was feeling. I kept saying “tied up in knots”. She then gave me a “list” of all the emotions (sadness, fear, anger, etc.) and asked me to pick one. “tied up in knots” was not a feeling. It didn’t take long before I got right into the pain. She also felt that the hypnosis work is extremely effective and can be very transformative in a short time. I like that philosophy. The energy worker I’m going back to is very unique. I started crying almost a minute after I sat down with him just due to his presence and the way he is. He has an ability to see energy blockages and help release them quickly. That’s why he charges over $100 a session, and he’s booked 6 weeks out. There are some really good therapists out there. You keep looking for the one you feel comfortable working with. You’ve ruled one out. One step closer to your goal of peace. ((((hugs))))
Nolarn,
I’m sorry, I keep reading your posts and I am not getting any kind of bad vibes about your crush on the neighbor lady. Maybe I’m missing something. It sounds very sweet to me, as long as it’s not interfering with other aspects of your life. But I am concerned about you letting the crush go on too long without saying anything and getting your heart broken later down the line. I would hate for you to go through what I’m going through with MY neighbor. I was too chicken to ever tell him how much I liked him. But it sounds like you are much closer friends with your neighbor than I ever was with mine. I guess it’s too late to warn you never to date your neighbors. lol
Skylar, I so wanted you to weigh in on this conversation because I know you have a boyfriend right now. What are your thoughts on dating and what is required to “be ready” to date?