By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Sky,
Me too chica. Look forward to it!
LL
nolarn,
All sounds healthy to me, and that your head is in a good place. I’m so interested to hear how it goes. It’s fun to have a crush, as long as it doesn’t take you too far outside of your center. I wish I had taken it slower with the neighbor boy, too. He is completely irresistible to me. I need a plan to keep me safe from these types to the infatuation doesn’t overshadow the friendship.
Sky and LL,
With therapy, sometimes change is subtle, and sometimes there are big breakthroughs. It’s all good. Please keep us posted. I have an actual hypnotherapy session planned for Saturday. My energy session is next Monday. I will let you all know how it goes. But my expectation is to make big strides because it seems this has just been happening a lot lately.
Dear LL,
Why don’t you just GO TO THERAPY and not try to RUN IT and tell the therapist what to do?
Has it ever crossed your mind that you might actually benefit from just participating in therapy…as I remember last time you spent a great deal of the time debating with your therapist about psychopaths….how about you let the therapist try to do their job?
I may be sounding a bit harsh here, but the tactics that you are describing are the patients I have seen that never make any progress because they don’t truly participate in the therapy, but try to get the therapist to just validate what they want to hear.
It is super hard for me in therapy because I’d DONE therapy, and to be on the “wrong side” of the clip board is difficult for me, but only when I quit trying to BE or RUN the therapy did I make progress.
Asking about credentials is one thing—what school did she go to and how long in practice but cross examining her at this early stage in the game seems a bit much…frankly if I were in her shoes, I would pass you to the next therapist immediately after the first session after a cross examination that you indicated you gave her. Just my not so humble opinion.
Hello Oxy et al..,
I started posting and hit a wrong button or something and it all went away and back to the sign on page?? aahh weellll.
I’m due to start therapy on May 9th. I haven’t been to therapy in years! It did take two months to get the appt. so I am definately going. But, I’m nervous to go and talk to a stranger. My primary MD recommended him. I’m not sure he’ll even know about a sociopaths, although he should considering it’s his “business” right?
I also plan on talking about grieving losses. I feel it’s going to be so awkward. I guess I’ll just feel him out, make sure he’s not a s/p/n Lawdy!
Oxy, I did hear part of your story on the radio show. You did a great job and love your accent! That’s so good that you could say your real name and toss off the shame. Good for you! Guess what? My name is Kerry!
Dear Ana-Kerry,
Feeling nervous is just normal, but give the guy a chance and work with him or her and feel them out about psychopaths (sociopaths, ASPDs) some do know something about them and some don’t, but the GRIEF is the same regardless of what you are grieving and a LOSS is the same…so learning about grief, grieving and dealing with traumatic losses is a good start…I’m glad you are going, I know it helped me. Oxy-Joyce
LL – i think you are attracted to her willingness, a sense of being in it with her (her saying that she might enjoy the challenge). This to me is am important dynamic in therapy. Even the stupid cognitive dude had some of that – which is why i didn’t ditch him right away. But in the long run, the CT, and the narrowness of his modality shone through and i didn’t go on with it.
On paper the other therapist sounds better suited. I saw a psychology student through the university in the city i used to live in. She was very young and i took one look at her and thought, ‘mmm, don’t think she has much to offer me’, and i was dead wrong. You never know what gifts people bring to the table. From my limited knowledge of these folks i’d suggest seeing them both and evaluating.
You are an empowered patient, and that bodes well.
Oxy – you have a parochial attitude about patient/ doctor, and patient/ counselor relationships. Things have moved on a great deal in the last few decades.
Given the lack of knowledge about spaths and the number of spaths in medicine/ counseling it is buyer beware.
Being an empowered patient is about setting the parameters of trust and expectation – not just sucking up what a ‘professional’ thinks is best. If someone is rummaging around in your head you need to both feel comfortable with them and their modality so that we are not victimized.
LL,
I really don’t know much about CBT, just what I’ve read. I can see how it might help for surface stuff. It really depends on how intuitive the therapist is and how familiar she is with the patterns of people who have been abused. Obviously, I’m not a therapist and I wasn’t sexually abused, but I “get” you when you talk because I was also abused, I felt what you feel and I’ve spent long hours considering which voices are my own and which ones are the ones that have been slimed on me.
When you continued to ask the board, “why didn’t he love bomb me?” And everyone, including you, thought you wished you’d gotten the “full treatment” from your spath, I instinctively knew that’s not what you meant. I FELT your question, rather than just hearing the words. then I asked myself what do those FEELINGS MEAN to a little girl?
I took myself back to that place in time where I looked around and thought, why not me? why can’t I have that? What makes me different? What’s wrong with me?
And yes, intuitively, we realize that people are responding to our external looks and our behavior, so we think that we aren’t good enough. But there are 2 parts to the story, the person who is responding to us is a spath and they have an entire agenda flying under the radar that has very little to do with us. THEY are the ones with the bigger problem.
It’s true that we might be walking with a limp, so we attract their attention. but our limp doesn’t make us bad or deserving of their evil. It’s just our limp, or wart or scar or whatever that distinguishes us. And we deserve to be loved despite it or maybe even because of it.
So I guess, what I would want is someone who has enough experience with abuse and children that they are aware of these confused feelings. Maybe the man who treated your son successfully is the guy for you too?
Ox,
I completely DISAGREE with you and for some of the reasons One has given. Credentials ARE important and we discussed that as well, but in MY opinion, being AWARE of what psychopathy IS is important to me in dealing with a whole LINE of pathologicals. And what’s wrong with seeing a therapist who is FAMILIAR with pathologicals and can VALIDATE my experiences? Well thank God. I think it’s working in the reverse Ox, if SHE isn’t familiar with psychopaths, it’s ME that will walk. I don’t CARE to argue with another therapist on these points and I’ll keep shopping till I find the RIGHT one that can deal with a LIFETIME of what it is to have lived with a line of pathologicals. Everytime you tell you’re story, it feels VALIDATING does it not? It adds to your inner strength and perseverence. I have the same right, ox.
One, I appreciate your input. I’m going to see both therapists. I COMPLETELY agree with you on this and it is accurate. Given the MANY conversations on this blog about creating awareness for the general public on this issue, it bodes WELL with what you’re saying.
Thank you for understanding that and where I’m coming from.
And no, I won’t SUCK UP to what a professional who thinks that psychopathy can be cured or that my experiences with a lifetime of them, were not valid. I have realized that that was my issue with the last therapist. I won’t allow someone to tell me what’s right for me. I’ll walk out the door.
Oxy,
Thanks for your reply. I will give therapy/therapist a fair shot. I have nothing to lose, but another two month wait for another therapist!
It will take time I guess to trust, but it will be worth it. I’m sick of being stuck in my head about the losses and the biatch sociopath. Therapy did help me years ago when I did my family of origin work…THAT was work lol!