By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
Star,
you said he has no seduction skills. yes he does. those are narcissist’s seduction skills you are describing. It’s the trauma bond and you are deep in the middle of it.
You are so attracted to him because he’s hot then cold, then hot then cold. That’s how the trauma bond works.
My spath told me, when I want someone to suffer, I like to make them really happy first, so that they have further to fall.
It’s the oldest trick in the book, for spaths and narcissists. Spaths take it to an extreme. they know that developing amazing sexual skills is part of putting you on a pedestal before they knock you off. But narcissists have a hard time with that. They know what to do to trauma bond, but they are soooo stuck on themselves that they can’t keep it up too long, it’s just not in them to lower themselves, not even to lure in a victim.
I heard that spath women look for narcissist men because they are soooo easy to manipulate. It’s true. You just tell them how great they are and they are in heaven. On the other hand that won’t stop them from trying to destroy your self-esteem. So you have to expect them to ignore you and create drama. When they do, just laugh at them. He expects you to cry. When you laugh (keep that bottle of nitrous oxide by the door) they won’t know what hit them.
I know you don’t want to play games, but narcissists can’t love and they only play games. If you want to enjoy this dude, play along. If you want really hot sex, find a spath.
My heart,
good for you.
Welcome to LF, you will learn all the stupid stuff spaths do and you’ll be able to see right through them.
Their ploys follow the same old tricks because a spath is just an infant who never grew up. He has no ability to love because his emotional growth was stunted somewhere between the fetal stage and 4 years old.
They use the same old bag of trick that infants have been using for millenia. You will grow in leaps and strides when you go NC.
Sky,
I will think about what you said. There is/was definitely a lot of game playing going on here and it does hurt my self-esteem. I’m not getting that he’s a narcissist; I’ve dated one or two of those before, and he doesn’t strike me as being like that. Immature maybe, and a musician – they seem to be in a category by themselves. And a pot head. I have never dated one of those so I don’t know in what ways the pot prevents them from getting close to anyone. So sociopaths are drawn to narcissists? I hope you don’t think I’m a sociopath. Yikes!
He actually seemed uncomfortable with praise. Don’t narcissists love praise? It’s very confusing. In any event, you’re right, the end result is a blow to my self-esteem. I just don’t think there’s any reason he should avoid me after we’ve at least been friends. I don’t know what kind of game he is playing. I would like to find out once and for all, so I can just have closure. I will know if I ever get a chance to talk to him.
He will either tell me he met someone or is not interested in me or was never interested in me, in which case I’ll move on.
Or he’ll ask me out again and start playing his games. In that case I will be very clear and tell him that I did really like him and ask him where I stand. Either way, I’ll know. It’s the confusion that drives me nuts.
He did have a 10-year relationship with someone he cared about and he’s still friends with her. I think if he had really hurt her, she wouldn’t want anything to do with him again. But he also said that he didn’t marry her because she wasn’t “good enough” for him. I didn’t ask why. It’s possible that no one is good enough for him. He does have really close friends and seems very happy in his life. He’s quite the enigma. I can only speak to where I was at while he was in my life, which is insecure and playing games. I think when you approach life with confidence, people treat you differently.
For those who are into astrology, he has Venus in Aries, which is a bad combination for my Venus in Scorpio. Venus in Aries are very freedom-loving and respond to relationships very sexually. They get easily bored and love competition and constant excitement. Venus in Scorpio (like me) are extremely passionate and want to possess their lovers body, mind, and soul. We are exact opposites in that way. The guy I lived with for 3 years who hurt me so badly was a triple Aries (Sun, Moon, and another personal planet – can’t remember which one.) I am a Libra with a lot of Scorpio in my chart and a moon in Cancer, so I am very emotional and fickle with men. My neighbor is a Taurus with a lot of Aries and not much water. We are really exact opposites.
LL, ((((((hugs))))))) I’m here if you need to talk.
superkid10:
“Sometimes, I think it would be so awesome if we all could post on FLICKR or something pictures of our sociopaths. I wonder how many of them as individuals we share in common, I wonder how many physicial characteristics they share (handsome, muscular, etc)”
super, this reminds me of something thats been bothering me and i cant quite put my finger on it. my exfiance-spath use to look different everytime i saw her (even throughout the day when she lived with me) and always looked different in every photo i have of her.
i can only describe it as an erie vampires-cant-be-photographed type of feeling.
would anyone care to comment on this?
Dear Echosandsilence,
I think it is because they have trouble with FEELING emotions and the face and eyes are definitely the gateway to what is going on inside a person’s mind. Some are better “actors” than others and can “fake” expressions on their faces to go along with emotions that they don’t feel but I think many times there are just those subtle differences between “them” and “us”—Dr. Robert Hare in his book “Without Conscience” described it as well as I’ve ever heard it described.
He said “they learn the words but not the music”—-a tone deaf person can learn the words to any song, but they can’t “hear” the music to learn it so are going to always sing just a shade (or more) off key. The psychopaths are the same way with emotions, they are usually just a shade or more off key in the expressions and actions that should go along with a particular emotion…so when they “smile” or “laugh” at something they are faking the “picture” is just a shade off.
My son and I were talking this morning about those SUBTLE interactions that cross a person’s face when they are “triggered” by something that maybe even they don’t realize is triggering them. We have a young man friend, His dad who is a psychopath has always been called John in their family and our friend Johnny…and my son noticed that when I would shorten “Johnny’s” name to “John” there would be just a flicker of “something” go across his face and maybe even he didn’t realize that me shortening his name to the one his P father had always been called was disturbing to him (even if he had, he wouldn’t probably have said so) but now I am aware and will make every effort not to remind him of his dad’s name by shortening his.
echosandsilence says:
superkid10:
“Sometimes, I think it would be so awesome if we all could post on FLICKR or something pictures of our sociopaths. I wonder how many of them as individuals we share in common, I wonder how many physicial characteristics they share (handsome, muscular, etc)”
super, this reminds me of something thats been bothering me and i cant quite put my finger on it. my exfiance-spath use to look different everytime i saw her (even throughout the day when she lived with me) and always looked different in every photo i have of her.
i can only describe it as an erie vampires-cant-be-photographed type of feeling.
would anyone care to comment on this?”
In a melt-down last summer, I actually did post pictures of my x-spath here last summer. The reason was two-fold: 1) First, it became obvious to me (or I finally accpeted) that he had an attraction to younger guys. I was a bit older than him and part of me felt this was an issue, even though when we met, he thought I was younger than him. Thus, if calendar age was important to him, I was lashing back.
The other part was more personal and something I did not notice while dating him. When I first stumbled upon an online profile of his, he used a picture so young looking that I did not recognize him at first. Only when I went back to the profile and read the details did I realize it was him.
My first thought was “Nice picture but you don’t look like that any more. I look more like you now than you do.”
At first I laughed to myself but from that moment on, I would catch reflectings of myself and at certain angles, I do very much look like him, enough so that when I showed that picture to a friend of mine and told him it was me 10 years ago, all he said was “you were a bit heavier then.”
Thus, it became even hard to forget somebody you “effectively” see every day and I wanted to demostrate this. Plus, I got a stab at him because nobody matched his current picture to any of the ones from various dating website. Grrrr.
The one thing that actually separates us is the stare. He has it, I do not. Also, in none of his pictures does he appear to be happy.
This dicsussion is a good segway into two articles I have been want to post:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100925105837.htm
I can’t find the other but it also supports the notion that we often make assumputions regarding people we meet based upon physical characteristics.
My x-spath has the physical “characteristics” of somebody you would seek for a long-term relationship: attractive face, somewhat youthful looking, average body.
Perfect wolf in sheep’s clothing…
Dear Myheart,
Welcome to LF, and glad you are doing the NO CONTACT…it really is the only way we can “win” with these people….and it will allow us to heal. Good for you,, and again, welcome.
Behind Blue Eyes
Honestly, it’s one of the strange things about my spath too. He didn’t look like me, but he did have a weird appearance. One photo of him does not look like another. I couldn’t even carry a vision of him in my head because it was off, and chameleon like.
I think it is in part because his personality was so snake like, and by that I mean wildly inconsistent. Some periods he was lazy and unshaven, other periods he dressed like a million bucks and was full of ideas and enthusiasm, he morphed all over the place. it was amazing to experience.
Superkid, I sent an e mail 2 more times today to that temp address that you posted on line, and also had donna forward again. Check it out. If it doesn’t work, then you are SOL as I will not post my e mail here and I don’t want to bother Donna a third time.
I guess I need to sign up for an aol e mail or some other throw away e mail that doesn’t lead directly to my home e mail address through my web site.