By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
((((((((((((( Trimama )))))))))))))))))
YAY! We posted over each other.
I one hundred percent support you in your efforts to be free. you will find TONS of support here for you.
GOOD for you! You’re stronger than you know!
I will be saying TONS of prayers for you.
LL
Dear Trimama,
You have some “fantasy” and “magical” thinking going on here though….your “I believe he loves me”—people who “Love” us do not physically hurt us, he says the word “love” but he does not comprehend what that word means in terms of behavior.
He has learned to mimic words and some actions, but they are only like a worm on a fisherman’s hook, to lure you in and manipulate you.
Telling him your “story” about the snake and about how he treats you and how you feel is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE and is warning him what you are “up to.”
You can and you must ESCAPE if you want to keep yourself safe, and leave him behind where he cannot follow or find you.
From the way you are talking though, and the “magical” thinking I am hearing, I am not really confident that you truly comprehend the danger that I think you are actually in. I’ve done all and said all I can, all I can do at this point for you is to pray that you come to your senses and realize just how you are putting yourself at risk by remaining with him, not just for the next 10 days before you “move” but emotionally feeling sorry that he is “fallen on hard times” and that you must rescue him.
At this point, the problem isn’t about him, it is about YOU—about you failing to keep yourself safe. About you seeing what he is and knowing what he is and still feeling sorry for him because he is so “desirable” and “charming”. Though I fail to see how an ex convict that had tried to strangle me in the past would be someone I would (now) find charming. God bless.
Trimama,
he has NO EMOTIONS. WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED IS FAKE.
Completely and totally, absolutely, 100% A BIG FAT LIE.
If I had a bolder LARGER FONT, I would use it to SCREAM IT.
Yes, he is addicted to YOUR EMOTIONS BECAUSE HE HAS NONE OF HIS OWN. ALL he has is RAGE and ENVY for you because you have what he can never have: Love. HE DESPISES YOU FOR LOVING HIM.
Trimama, he has felt this way his whole life so it is NOTHING for him to wear different personas. They can slip into a new face like you and I would change our shoes. – no, even easier. MUCH EASIER. I’ve seen my brother go from RAGING, GRABBING ME IN ANGER then turn on a dime to a sudden MANIACAL GRIN, when he knew he had won. This is the man who kills kittens and wishes to kill people.
Even their rage is shallow. It burns hot for an instant and then disappears – right after you’re dead. They feel nothing deeply.
I understand the overwhelming desire to share and watch their expressions and responses to the information you give him. I’ve done it too.
The response you got back was a lie and a tell. He told you how mean he is because he wanted to watch the look on your face. My advice Trimama: BOTOX on your face and a virtual botox on your personality, until you can get the heck out.
Please don’t share anymore with him. He will now try to elicit more information from you to make sure he is in control. But now that he knows that you know too much and are unlikely to stay with him forever, he is soooo much more dangerous.
Trimama-NO CONTACT-please. I agree with everything Oxy said and LL is right too. You can do it. If I can do it, you can do it. He doesn’t love you. I am approaching 2 yrs since the breakup with mine/no contact and it is like my relationship with him never happened. I never saw him one time but from a distance once after the breakup-never face to face. Oxy can tell you how much of a mess I was when I came here even after a year. Seriously, it’s gone now and I have learned so much about how to see through the BS and how to not take it from anyone. I am even now interested in someone else. Never thought it would happen. I remember crying saying that I would never get over him. Shows how much I know. God knows better.
Trimama,
You say you’re going to move in ten days. I’m not moving from my position on this.
Ox is right in that you’re going to do what you’re going to do and it IS your decision. I don’t know what your “AHA!” moment will be as it’s different for all of us. I talked out my ass for ten years….but it wasn’t just ONE thing that did it for me, but an accumulation. Was a really good thing I came here when he produced a gun on my naked ass one night on the bed…..I’m lucky to be alive. He had NOTHING to lose with me. NOTHING in killing me. this is when I saw his hatred and how real it was, the fantasy was still firmly planted in my psyche, but my safety was worth more….
We don’t want to believe that someone could be so calculating and diabolical.
Whatever you see as empathy, is NOT REAL. That is an ILLUSION, designed for YOU to see. It has nothing to do with reality…but I digress….
You posted here for a reason. that tells me, again that you know what’s up.
Sooooooooo, take the ten days, call a women’s services organization where you live. BE PROACTIVE. Find a support group, go over your plans, share what has happened and I GUARANTEE YOU that you will be able to relate to others who have been through it and will help you draw up a safety plan.
really glad you came back to post Trimama.
I believe in you and I think you can do this, simply because you came back to post here.
But it really is up to you. 🙂
LL
Trimama,
I guess I didn’t answer your questions. I was a bit triggered by my own recollection of what happened after I went back with my spath in 1991. Urgh…
anyway. No he doesn’t love you. He never did, but he is addicted to you. He is a SADIST. They all are. they love pain and suffering so his addiction is to your empathy and pain. They have learned that the best way to get up close and personal with suffering is to LITERALLY, get up close and personal with you by telling you that they love you.
Gray rock is like what I described with Botox. Show no expressions on your face and none in your conversation. Be dull and boring. Tell him you had botox and are on prozac, so that he doesn’t question why you are so unresponsive. He will go into withdrawal and rage a bit, but if you continue with gray rock, he’ll get bored. He NEEDS your facial expressions because he has no empathy, so the only way he can gauge your pain is from your face. Your face and words give him a feeling of power and satisfaction.
Example, my exP had a friend (who is now my BF) and they would hang together alot. I never got to hang with them but my spath would come home and tell me all about BF and how he was doing, what he was up to.
I remember once he came home bitching and complaining because BF was taking prozac and it made him all wierd and his reactions weren’t normal. He said, “BF says he’s not taking it but I can tell, I can always tell when he’s on it. I can’t stand it when he takes that shit.” He was really pissed off. BF DID take it a few times because he suffered and still does suffer from depression (I found out it’s just low blood sugar because he doesn’t remember to eat). But BF said he didn’t take it that long.
Anyway, Spaths are really stupid and they can’t read human beings so all you have to do is say you are on prozac and he won’t know why you aren’t responding normally to him. Spaths are the dumbest creatures on earth because they lie so much but they can’t tell when you are lying to them if you go out of your way to use their own tricks: invent a cover story.
Sky,
ROFLOL!!!!
I absolutely LOVE IT!
Your insight is amazing…..and your amusing too!
LL
Hi LL,
LOL! watchu talkin ’bout?!
I’m really dead serious. It’s not my fault the stupid sociopaths are laughable clowns.
LL and anyone who wants to weigh in:
we were talking about borderline people earlier and I’m wondering if my attitude towards my parents is like a borderline person. I feel like I oscillate between idealization and devalutation of them. Isn’t that borderline behavior?
I don’t feel like that towards anyone else, just my parents.
In a way I also felt like that towards the spath. I felt that he was pretty wonderful and then he was such a spath. but now I see that for what it really was: fake wonderful, REAL spath.
My feelings for my parents are over the top, I think. More love and trauma bonding than is normal. can a person be borderline only with their parents but not otherwise?
It’s very confusing.
Skylar;
I find it easier to be ‘removed’ from the toxics……it’s easier to process my feelings and the reality without the constant mind fark of are they/are they not blah……
I haven’t seen my parents in 3.5 years…..
We are raised in a society, around the world, to respect our parents. they gave us life. This alone gives us a mind fark.
I say mind fark not selective BP.
When we are betrayed and live in a toxic environment…this becomes our norm. And we still ‘love and respect’ our parents.
When we realize truths, and realize we have options NOT to be involved with ANYONE who is toxic to us……this too creates confusion to what society expects and we are taught.
The wavering continues……are they/are they not……
Is it me…..is it them….
Pure confusion in our minds.
We want to give chances…..believe the best, and it’s easier to doubt ourselves than our parents.
What i’ve found helpful is to believe in ‘absolutes’. I KNOW my parents betrayed me….whatever their excuse is….it doesn’t matter…..it was nothing more than complete betrayal.
ABSOLUTE. And I have learned to trust myself on these absolutes.
The crazymaking emotions don’t allow progress……and being in the company of any toxic person keeps that alive and ‘well’.
Physical removal from these ‘games’ of the mind is a very helpful way to see the forest from the trees and vs. versa.
I have said many a time…..I am very grateful that I don’t have to have contact with my parents OR spath…..and the fact I needed to file a restraining order against spath and KEPT him away….was one of the best things I have done to remove myself and my kids from the constant mind fark of……back and forth thinking.
Parents play a role in our lives that no one else can play. This is why you waver…..they are your parents…..and it’s NOT supposed to be like ‘this’.
Youv’e had a lot on your plate……try to compartmentalize and separate each ‘person/issue’ and deal with them emotionally separately.
Each spath in your life played a different role…..and I believe the parental role is the hardest to accept. Parents are supposed to ALWAYS be the backbone and support and never give grief to a child…..they gave birth to you……why would they want to destroy you in any way? Well……me….as a parent would NEVER imagine harming my children….in anyway…….but as you well know……that’s NOT always the case.
It’s hard!