By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
agree Eden,
thanks. good night to you and wake upto a beautiful Sunday.
one step further everyday. (smile)
petite
Hi everyone:
My friend and I took a week long trip to Florida to have some fun. As I was down there, I did lots of thinking…alot more than I wanted to…
So, as I am home now, I need to purge some of these things I was thinking…
I feel really resistant to feeling my feelings lately. Ive determined this is because I dotn want to feel guilt. Guilt? Yeah…guilt. As I reflected this past week, I realized some of my flaws which were present. Now, as I write this, I am getting mad at myself for ‘blaming’ myself (or at least trying to) as if a single episode or even my personality CAUSED this. I KNOW IT DIDNT…Im just not sure of myself right now, I guess.
Self-doubt. HUGE problem with this. I fluctuate from remembering what happened and questioning myself like “man, was he trying to tell me he wasnt happy because I really WAS being ‘mean’ and I didnt get it or see it?” Or I think “was this really about me or was it about his insecurities over being able to ‘handle’ adult life and projecting himself onto me?” That seems too simple…somewhere I HAVE TO be at fault..to blame…right? It takes two, right?
I can see the ‘reason’ he came back so clearly today…NC for 5 months and he decides he needs to find his bio mother. I am SAFE, SECURE, FAMILIAR, EMPATHETIC, CARING, and CAN DRIVE him so why wouldnt he have contacted me? THis time though, I had ‘stipulations’. I wanted commitment, long term stable relationship…and he had been in therapy to deal with some of his ‘demons’ so why wouldnt I think he was sincere. RIGHT!?
October we were going strong…and he was SO into moving in, having a life together. Then he started talking to people…and listening to things like “maybe you should live together before you buy because its a huge commitment,’ and “if you buy and put the house in her name, she can kick you out whenever she wants to.” WHAT!!!
SO, by November, he’s got some bugs in his ear. He begins to freak out…except he starts to say its ME…whose not ‘being nice’ or whose ‘being difficult”. My question is this…what happened from April to October that STOPPED the month of November that ’caused’ him to not feel connected to me?
Ill tell you what happened…he thought a little bit. He noticed I wasnt kidding with what I WANTED and he knew he couldnt come through. Being here on the weekends is one thing…he can play house and his son has a home and then everyone goes home except ME.
He stuck it out though for a while because there were things he still NEEDED from me…like rides to see his mom in Michigan in particular. I dont doubt if he hadnt bought that dog in October, when things were going WELL, he would have been out in December…
STill feeling sad and waiting for this to stop.
Robx ”“ Firstly it takes a long time to get things straight in our head. 5 months on and I’m still thinking WTF. Little things come to mind and only NOW can I make sense of them. So don’t be too hard on yourself ”“ it’s normal.
We do feel guilty and that is because WE have feelings as opposed to spath who does not.
You did not cause this, HE did. So don’t beat yourself up about ’what if’s’.
The reason he came back was for all the reasons you have listed. He did not come back for YOU – only what you could SUPPLY him with.
He would NEVER give you a long term stable relationship, he can’t, EVER.
He’s been in therapy ”“ yeah right!! We covered the snake thing on here recently—does a poisonous snake stop being poisonous if we love it? NO it will still bite us the first chance it gets.
Re: the house”..that involved commitment ”“ he can’t commit, spaths cannot think about the future only what suits them NOW. He comes to you every weekend for a holiday (kid in toe) and you wait on them hand and foot ”“ what is in this for you?
And finally”..the dog. Well enough has been said about the ’present’.
Quit blaming yourself, occupy that mind of yours with something other than spath.
Questioning yourself is NORMAL but be reassured that you did EVERYTHING you could. Time to de-tox ïŠ
Skylar
I think you are really on to something. Why is it sometimes we can’t see anything until somebody else makes it clear?
Of course, you are right, my spath’s “enabler” ex-wife must be a narc., being addicted to drama, living without balls. I think about her profile (her dad is a physician, a high achieving demanding, distant jack ass, her mother was disabled and non-existent in her life) so she grew up being ignored. She has very little contact with her two sisters. She is a lawyer – meaning, she’s driven to achieve, to somehow get recognition from others. All those point to NARC. I realize it’s not a diagnosis, just indicators.
And her meek answer means that she doesn’t have any balls, to your point. She knows what her ex-husband does, she protects herself in a way, but enables his reign of evil. She gets off on the drama, she feels superior because he keeps coming “back” to her – maybe no sex, but she does get attention from him….and more drama. She is sick.
I’m thinking about what I wrote. Now I’m sure there IS sex between them. He demands it, she’s giving it up and ignores all his other liasons. Gross.
I need to play around with this a little more in my mind. It’s been bothering me for a few years. We all tend to think that people are good, people are like us, we project our empathy and motivations on to others and when it fails it’s just confusing as hell.
Oxy, I love the drum you bang (no contact). You are so right. I am, I am, I am going to stay the course. I’m also going to try that book.
I am reading THE HAPPINESS TRAP right now, it’s an excellent read about how to get control of my thoughts, and turn them away from my SPATH.
Sometimes, I think it would be so awesome if we all could post on FLICKR or something pictures of our sociopaths. I wonder how many of them as individuals we share in common, I wonder how many physicial characteristics they share (handsome, muscular, etc).
HUGS to you.
Dear Eden,
I am assuming that going on “broker caravan” is where a group of RE people go in a group to view properties to sell and this is a part of your job so to speak, but one that is voluntary, but beneficial.
IF IT IS BOTHERING YOU then you may want to NOT go. I have actually quit shopping at the nearest town because my egg donor shops there and I do NOT want to run into her. I also do not go to extended family events (funerals or weddings etc) where she might show up because I DO NOT WANT TO RUN INTO HER.
So, my advice on this is MAKE IT EASY ON YOURSELF. If it is triggering you, then AVOID IT. Sure, we CAN EVENTUALLY control our emotions but especially early on, you may need to absolutely avoid all contact or even sight of him. iF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED, THEN DO IT.
LISTENING TO OURSELVES is what we must do. After the plane crash that killed my husband the parents of the boy who was also in the plane and was badly burned was in the hospital and his parents wanted me to come daily to visit him. The hospital was a 1 hour drive away , and IT WAS A TREMENDOUS TRIGGER FOR ME…I felt guilty for not going, but I fiinally realized I COULD NOT GO ANY MORE no matter how much they wanted me there and I couldn’t feel guilty about takiing care of ME.
SO my advice is to TAKE CARE OF YOU. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT, if your gut is upset by seeing him, “talk to” your gut and in the end, DO WHAT THE GUT WANTS YOU TO DO….you will have time later to “convince” your gut not to be triggered as you heal more. If that makes any sense. LOL (((hugs))) You will get stronger, it just takes time….but don’t expect to run til you learn to walk! (((hugs)))
good morning Eden,
Isn’t it funny how we can KNOW one thing, but still FEEL the opposite? You know you are safe because you can’t be duped anymore, but you still feel the slime he left you with. That was his intent. Spaths KNOW the power of their stinky slime. It’s hard to get the stench off once you have been in contact with it. With my P-sister and P-brother in law, I always got the overwhelming feeling of needing to take a shower after visiting with them (before I even knew what a sociopath was). I even mentioned this to my spath and my parents. (before I knew what THEY were).
I think that I noticed the “stench” at my P-sister’s house because I rarely visted. But maybe I didn’t notice the raunchy smell at my own house and at my parents’ home, because I had become accustomed to it. Maybe there are different “smells” of malevolence? Maybe my P-sister and her P-husband just aren’t as good at hiding their evil? Not sure about that, but now I can’t go to any of those places without feeling stinky slimed. It makes me shudder.
In his book, Political Ponerology, Andrew Lobaczewski, talks about psychological hygiene. He says it’s required when dealing with psychopaths in order to avoid getting slimed. I need to finish the book, so I can perhaps understand how to achieve that. It’s such a struggle.
((hugs)))
sky
Superkid,
It’s totally possible that they don’t have sex. My exP and I didn’t have sex for over a decade and we lived in the same tiny house. I didn’t know that he was having sex with everyone and the neighbor too. But spaths can convince us that we are special and chosen, that our relationshit is “different” because we are “different”.
It’s like being in a cult.
One of my spath neighbors, Christa, hated me but tried to pretend to be my friend. She was in fact, a trojan horse that my spath had placed in the neighborhood. I noticed that when I was at her house, her husband was not allowed in the same room. He would scurry out quickly. Her insecurity about her looks was obvious. But one day, I called her and said I had a flat tire and asked if she could send her husband with his mobile air compressor to pump it up. She said, “ummm, no… well, I’ll send BOTH my husband and his brother!” I already knew her insecurity, so I didn’t even have a WTF moment. I said, “GREAT!” But when he showed up, we talked for a bit and out of the blue, he said, “She CHOSE ME.” WTF!!!?
I had no idea what that meant at the time. Now I do, but I’m not sure that he knows why he said it. All spath’s supplies think they are special because they have been chosen to be used by the spaths. It’s sick, but that is what they brainwash us with. I was one of those. Thank God I’m not anymore.
BTW, here’s a really good article called, “Do Narcissists Know They Are Narcissists?” Both the article and the comments are good.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/226549-Do-Narcissists-Know-They-Are-Narcissists-
Sky, the “stink” is the EMOTIONAL “cat chit” that they just let accumulate on the carpet….they cover it up but it STILL STINKS….and if you say “where’d the cat chit stink come from? Why don’t you clean it up and get rid of the cat!” They say WHAT CAT, I don’t have a cat—as the “guilty cat” struts through the room and you are watching it and they are saying WHAT CAT? DUH? Talk about denial! LOL
Thanks Oxy and Sky!
Ox, yes, viewing properties on Tuesdays is voluntary. It is beneficial to go, but not mandatory, and honestly, new listings are almost always open to view on the following Sunday, so I can always go to see things, then. Just was wanting your opinion on whether or not it would be giving my power or control to the P. Thank you for answering!
You said:
“but don’t expect to run til you learn to walk”!
My gosh is this so perfect for me to hear!!! I have gotten way to ahead of where I truly am in my healing process. I do see I need to slow it down. You said something similar the other day. It is very true!
Thank you for taking the time, and for your continued words of wisdom! Yours, too, Skylar!!!
Eden
Dear Eden,
That is why NC is so important and especially at first, because we are SO RAW….we are like burn victims and we can’t stand the sun on our raw, burned skin. We must keep NO CONTACT just because it is like a BURN to our raw emotions. Once the wound is more healed it can stand a little sunlight if we must get out, but even then best to wear “sun screen” and if POSSIBLE cover up completely (NC).
People who must CO PARENT with these disordered people have a double hard time because the abuser uses the contact and the children for CONTINUED ABUSE, NEW WOUNDS….but we just have to learn to crawl, then walk, and then we can run. Each relationship and each person is a different time too….I saw my X BF P about 3 months after I broke up with him BUT I expected to see him at an event and it didn’t bother me—but nearly a year later I UN-EXPECTEDLY ran into him in my territory and it BLEW ME AWAY….and once I ran into my egg donor at the grocery store and it blew me away (I think in a way it was the UN-expected-ness of it that made it worse) but I realized that NC is the best. I keep as much INFORMATION ABOUT ME as possible away from them as well….and in my case I even send DIS-information about me to keep them from knowing when I am here. The less they know about me or what I am or where I am the safer I am.
If it gives you the willies to see him on these jaunts, then avoid them. THE PURPOSE IS TO MAKE THE HEALING EASIER AND BETTER FOR YOU. That’s your guide. WHAT’S BEST FOR YOU.