By Ox Drover
One of the themes that seems to run throughout the stories of many of, if not most of, the people who have had experiences with psychopaths is that we have either had repeated episodes of being abused by the same psychopath, even after we saw their dishonesty, or had episodes of being sucked into the webs of multiple psychopaths. Or, we have both of these—multiple episodes with multiple psychopaths.
Most of the people I have known who were formerly victims of psychopaths are not stupid. In fact, some of the smartest, most accomplished people I know are former victims, and have been repeatedly victimized by one psychopath after finding out that this person was dishonest and abusive. Somehow, they kept on going back to the relationship, even after multiple attempts to disengage from the abuser. Why? Why does a person who is smart, accomplished, and otherwise successful in life and business keep repeating the same behavior that allows them to be hurt?
There is an often-used quote, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” It seems by this definition that the victims of psychopaths are “insane,” because we keep on trying to have a relationship with someone who is repeatedly abusive. There must be some reason that otherwise smart and successful people keep repeating the behavior that is unsuccessful in its outcome. There must be some common thread among victims and former victims that makes us susceptible to frequently returning to an unsuccessful and painful relationship.
Here’s a little story that may contain what may be a grain of truth that might point us toward the answer to the question of. “Why?”
The Chief and the Snake
Once upon a time there was a very wise and kind Indian chief. One day as the chief was walking through the forest, he came upon a rattlesnake in the path. He stopped and started to go around the snake, not wanting to hurt it, but not wanting to be bitten either.
As the chief started to pass around the snake, the snake spoke to him (not an unusual thing in those days) and said, “Chief, please have mercy on me, my wife and family are on the other side of yonder river, and I can’t swim, and I can’t get to them. Won’t you please pick me up and carry me across the river?”
The chief looked at the snake and laughed a bit and said, “Why, if I tried to pick you up you would bite me and I would die. I am sad that you have a problem but I must not be bitten, or I would die and my own children would starve because there would be no strong man with a bow to hunt brother deer to provide meat to my little ones. Though my heart feels sad for you, no, I must refuse to pick you up.”
The snake then spoke to the chief saying, “But such a brave man as you should not be afraid of such a small snake as I, and I promise from the bottom of my heart that I would never harm you if you were to help me across yon river. I am so afraid that if I am not able to get across, my wife and children will perish. Please help me in my hour of need.”
The chief looked at the snake and his heart was sad because he knew what it was like to have one’s children without food. His heart took pity on the snake, and he agreed to take the snake across the river, if the snake would agree not to bite him.
The chief reached out to pick up the snake and held him high over his head as he waded the swift and cold waters of the river. About half way across the river when the chief was doing his best to protect the snake from the cold waters, the snake reached down and bit him on the neck, sinking his poison fangs deep into the chief’s blood stream.
The chief was surprised and said to the snake, “Brother Snake, why did you bite me, now I will die and you will drown as well. You promised on your honor not to bite me if I would have mercy on you and help you, now we shall both die and our children starve. You promised me.”
The snake replied, “Ah yes, I promised, but you knew what I was when you picked me up,” as they both sank under the swirling cold water of the river.
What we have in common with the chief
What caused the chief to reach out and pick up a snake that he knew was poisonous, that he knew had the power to harm him, and that if he was wrong in making this decision to pick up the snake, and the snake did bite him, that his own children would suffer because of his decision?
Empathy is what the chief had, empathy for the children of the snake. Because the chief loved his own children, he assumed that the snake must also love its children. Just as the chief would do what was best for his children, he empathized that the snake would also do what was best. Since the chief knew that he would never do anything deliberately to cause consequences for his children, he did not see that the snake would deliberately do something that would cause problems for his own offspring.
Thinking that others have the same motivations that we have can get us into the same problems that the chief got into. The chief wanted to help the snake. He felt pity for the snake. He knew that he would not want someone to refuse to help him if it meant that he would die and his children would go hungry, so it never dawned on him that the snake would be willing to make a decision to do a deed that would insure that the snake-children would go hungry.
The chief’s empathy and his thinking that others had the same empathy, the same motivation for their behavior, and no reason to hurt another, even at the cost of hurting themselves or their near and dear, caused him to want to believe the snake’s promise not to bite.
The snake, however, was right. The chief knew what he was when he picked him up. When we allow ourselves to believe the promises of people who have proven that they are dishonest, we open ourselves to be repeatedly injured or even killed. When someone shows you what they are, believe your eyes. Believe what you see, not what you hear.
No Contact
“No contact” is the commonly accepted “treatment” for any abusive relationship. This means that only contact that is required by law (such as meeting that person in a courtroom due to a law uit) or the minimum amount of contact required by law to co-parent with such a person, is the only interaction between you and your former abuser. No contact allows the injuries to cease, and keeps you safe from new and repeated injuries from the abuser.
“No contact” also includes not stalking the person’s Facebook page or other social media. It means blocking or deleting any text messages, phone calls, e-mails or any other form of communication, including having others tell you what the former abuser is “up to.” Refusing to engage in tale carrying, gossip, or drama involved with the former abuser is also essential. If you must speak about the relationship, do it ONLY with a trusted friend or family member who sees that the relationship was/is abusive, and with assurances that the person will keep your information in absolute confidence. This process can be likened to “not renting them space in your head,” which includes wondering if they have a new relationship, and if they are making this new person happy o,r if they will change for this new person, or wondering if you were wrong about what they are.
You know what they are now, so don’t pick them up. NO CONTACT WORKS.
I joined a different dating site, where I haven’t seen neighbor boy, and where the crowd seems a little more interesting. I like this site better. I met the Peruvian guy there. We’ve been instant messaging (in Spanish – his English is very poor) and we talked and played music together on the phone last night. I am also having some very funny emails with a guy on the old site who just cracks me up. He is very intelligent and also speaks french, as do I. So I’m enjoying this very much. I call him Napoleon and he calls me Josephine. I don’t even know what his real name is. We’ve been goofing around for several weeks. I’m very slow and hesitant to meet any of these guys, but don’t worry, I’ll be very careful where and how I meet them, if I do. I am more drawn to guys from other cultures than to Americans. But I am focusing more on the personality than the looks at this point, and of course their character and intent.
And for those concerned, I have used dating sites for many years and have never met a sociopath on one. But don’t worry, my eyes are open.
re-posting
Happy Easter everyone!
I hope this day is an enjoyable one for you all!
Star, no problem! You must call and sing more often!
You got the song down pat!
LL
ErinB,
We call that snow on the daffadils the “arkansas daffodil and snow-tire festival….it seems that over half the time when the daffys bloom we get an ice or snow storm….I have lots of pix of them covered in ice and snow! LOL Glad you have the same kind of weather we do….just later! LOL Our daffies are long gone, they usually start coming up in Feb, and are gone by first of april…some of the later blooming varieties are just now going.
My X dated my neighbor’s, well at least the old thang across the road, her husband bout damn near killed her, I almost called 911 one time the fightin and screamin was so bad. I asked my x to come out and listen to this one time, he got in the bed and covered his head, he did that often when caught in a lie. Was much latter another neighbor clued me into what was going on when I was at work..I was so clueless – sheesh I thot he was gay like me.
Anyway I cast a spell on ole miss thang and gave her the evil stare when she dared look my way, the spell worked, they divorced and moved recently. I hope the new neighbors work out, the last two couple’s that lived in that house have divorced.
EB and Hens,
thanks for your words, I’m trying to assimilate them. You’re right, we idealize someone and then they treat us bad, and the only logical conclusion is that WE ARE BAD. I mean, logically thinking, if the person we idealize was so perfect, then their judgement must be perfect and they are right about everything. If they don’t respect us or don’t love us, then it must be because we are not worthy of respect and love.
The first error occurred when we idealized. But with parents, that happened because we were infants, and that’s just what infants do. They have to do that in order to learn who to model. Oh, the fricken programming is soooo entrenched!!
I’ve just GOT to remove it. Pass the scalpel.
Tobecop,
I have a different take on what is going on. She is a nice lady, but she’s afraid of your drama. Put yourself in her shoes. You tell her all your problems.
You said:
“she asked me to get me gun out the house because she was worried about me since I was so upset about things. I told her that I was fine and if I ever had to do that then I would know when it was time. Well, yesterday it was time.”
Tobecop, we have a gun and we sometimes joke, like, “fetch me my gun ma! I’m gonna end it”
And I personally often wish I didn’t have to live. But that doesn’t mean I EVER worry that I will end it or BF will end it. It just would never happen. Life has gotten ssooooo bad and I didn’t end it then, why would I now? BTW it doesn’t require a gun to end it.
For you to take the gun and ammo to her is the equivalent of telling her that you are wanting to do it. She’s your neighbor, that’s a boundary violation. I know that you don’t want your record to show that you were ever suicidal so you won’t call for help, but now you are asking her to keep your secret. SPATHS do that. And spaths create drama. Not saying you’re a spath, because you have empathy, I know that. But you have learned a lot of your coping / relational skills from N parents.
You said,
“I knew that this was really going to worry neighbor lady. She is rather wound up.”
That isn’t right for you to put your drama on a person you know is rather wound up.
You said,
“I do think that I have invisible ink on my forehead that says “crazy people welcome here”. ”
It’s not invisible ink, it’s your behavior and mannerisms, perhaps facial expressions too. You invite people who are attracted to drama because of all the drama in your life. The neighbor lady, on the other hand, has the martyr syndrome that I have, that’s why she took care of you the whole day, so you wouldn’t kill yourself.
Oxy is right, it makes her feel superior. We martyr complex people see our ability to care for others AT OUR OWN EXPENSE as a super-power. It’s how we identify ourselves: It’s called a Christ-complex and I’m only now seeing it for what it is. I never knew I had it until recently. I’m trying to get rid of it.
But then your neighbor felt resentful and finally drew a boundary, she said she had “done her duty”.
It’s likely that she is attracted to you because it allows her to play her role. While you are attracted to her because you sensed what she was and could play your role.
I’m figuring out that we ARE all running around with invisible tattoos on our foreheads. Mine says, “Christ-complex: welcome all sinners – I’ll redeem you”
Our job is to get the fricken tatoo removed. It was put in there by our parents and it’s a liability. It keeps us from expanding into new healthier roles, and experiencing everything that we are capable of being.
sklar-read what I was posting on the thread below about falling in love. I don’t necessarily agree with what you are saying but I’m not going to argue about it. I’m choosing not to deal with her. I never should have given her my ammo. Hopefully I wouldn’t have used it. This lady has a lot of issues that ya’ll don’t know about and I saw her true colors yesterday and I saw what was there before all along but I was blinded by my attraction to her to see it. Thank God I did. She is NOT normal and I feel like I have been spathed/narc’d again. I have learned enough on here to see straight through that crap and I won’t have anything to do with it. She is ridiculous and so is her behavior. She was drawing me in before and that’s why I felt comfortable with her and I was starting to trust her. I don’t feel I violated her boundaries because she was drawing me in. She is like the one other female I dated before-drawing me in and then pulling back. She was playing tug of war with me and I saw that red flag from the prior relationship and that’s why I proceeded with caution with her and I’m so glad that I did. She told me that she refuses to let herself feel anything and that is a powderkeg getting ready to go off. She told me that I need to be the same way. I’m sorry but bottling things up is what caused me to gain 100lbs and after my narc/spath and I came here, I learned cry and how to release. I release all the time now when I need to and I am not afraid to cry now. I don’t do it in front of others cuz I still think that shows weakness but I do it, and it gets those feelings out. I’m NOT going to end up like her. She has a lot of bitterness and anger in there and I have no room for that in my life. I want to be positive.
Twobecop – Erin, I was about to post, and ask if i had missed something about your experience, as my perspective is so different form those posted. and then i read sky’s post.
if someone came to me with ammunition – so that they and others could be kept safe, I would draw new boundaries. Even if i knew the person really really well, i would insist that they get help. now. Would i possibly call the police on them? yes, if it meant that they would be safe long enough to get past suicidal or homicidal ideation. i did this with my sib years ago.
erin – you gave her your ammo because you didn’t feel safe. and although that is a smart and protective thing to do on your part let’s look at the facts: she barely knows you; you are not going to rescue her from her life circumstances ;she is not going to rescue you from yours; she is traumatized herself, and emotionally shut down. you presented her with a suicidal new friend and neighbour and expected this shut down traumatized woman to take things as business as usual; does that make any sense to you? this woman cannot handle her own trauma, and you waltz in the door with big drama (albeit played low key) and expect that she will do anything but run?
to me the wake up call is – if you think what you did was within the realm of the everyday, you are delusional. No biggie there, I am too – but you have got to see this. My concern for you at this time is that you are having ideas of using the gun to cause harm – You did the best thing to relinquish your ammo, and I’d suggest that you get a safe deposit box and put your gun in it.
Keep working on your despair. I know how hard it is to be out of work, money and feel ugly, and just desperately want something to get better – someone to be with me so that i feel like a human being. You had so much on your plate before your job stuff erupted. you keep going, sooner or later it will turn around erin.
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