By | September 30, 2009 52 Comments

One man’s lies are not my truth

I was at a seminar awhile ago where the speaker quoted from Gavin deBecker’s book, The Gift of Fear. deBecker writes that the first time someone hits you, you’re a victim. The second time, you knew what he was capable of yet chose to stay. The speaker went on to talk about how in life we always have a choice. We can choose to stay with a man who has proven himself capable of hitting or lying or cheating, or, we can chose to do the thing we fear, leave. Walk out the door and don’t look back. It is always our choice.

A woman in the audience put up her hand and said, “So, you’re blaming the victim. If she chooses to stay, it’s her fault.”

“No,” the speaker responded. “She is never responsible for his behaviour. She is responsible for the choices she makes.”

I stayed in a relationship for four years, nine months, seven days, two hours, thirty-two minutes and seven seconds. — Okay, so I don’t really know the exact length of time to the second — but I do know that every second counted in bringing me down to the pit of despair, to destroying my will to live.

I don’t know the exact moment when I knew he was lying, or felt the pinprick of doubt as to his intentions. I do know there were moments, early on in the relationship, when I was so blinded by what I wanted to believe was true and really happening (he loves me, he really, really loves me) that I chose to ignore the facts of what he was doing and saying, and bought into the myth of his love everlasting.

I do know that every second I stayed after the first time I questioned ”˜the truth’ of something he’d said or done that made me doubt his sincerity or made my spidey senses tingle with concern, made a difference in my ability to stand up and walk away when I knew he was lying.

With every second I stayed I became more and more poisoned by his lies. And with every drop of poison I consumed, I became more and more fixated on my need to prove I wasn’t a fool taken in by his lies, because, well, he wasn’t really lying, cheating, manipulating because if he was, I wouldn’t have stayed! I’m not that stupid.

Ah, the sticky webs we weave when first we try to deceive ourselves into believing being the woman of his dreams will make all our dreams come true.

I could never be the woman of his dreams. His dreams are the nightmare into which I fell when I turned my back on ”˜the truth’ of who I am and accepted his lies as the only truth I’d ever need to be the woman of his dreams.

With every moment I stayed stuck in the quagmire of his deceit, I became more and more convinced he was all I deserved. In accepting he was all I deserved, I had to accept I really was stupid because what was happening to me felt so wrong. To make the wrong right, I had to give up on looking for my truth away from him and accept I was as helpless as he told me. He told me there was nothing I could do to stop him, to leave him, or to change my life. I chose to believe him because to not believe him meant having to do something different. And I was too scared to do anything different. His lies became the truth I breathed and ate and consumed. His lies consumed me and I had to keep believing him in order to keep myself from facing the truth of his lies.

He told me he was all I deserved and only he, and he alone, was capable of giving me all that I wanted. As I fell under the lure of believing he was all I deserved, I became less and less capable of accessing my power to take positive action away from the lies that were robbing me of my sanity and killing my will to live.

Somewhere I once read that, when the pain of where we’re at grows greater than the fear of where we want to be, we will take action.

In that relationship, the pain of where I was at robbed me of finding the courage to walk away. Now, there were a whole bunch of reasons why and how that happened. From Stockholm Syndrome to Learned Helplessness to Intermittent Reinforcement, he practiced his craft of human manipulation. Why wouldn’t he? He’d spent his lifetime becoming a subject matter expert at his craft. And I was his willing victim. He knew I was the perfect victim after the first time he tested the boundaries of my principles, and I compromised in some small way to accept a lie he told as truth.

I was his target. And his source. I was the perfect woman — just as he said I was. Only, in my lexicon, perfect woman meant his one true love, his soul mate, the Venus completing his de Milo. I didn’t stop to think that he might have a different frame of reference. I didn’t stop to compare his actions against his words, my feelings of worthlessness against his machinations to make me feel worthless.

I didn’t stop to think.

And in not stopping to think about what he was doing, I made room for him to keep doing what he was doing in my life.

I was a victim. At least the first time I bought his lie and accepted it as truth. But, when I started to question whether or not he was telling the truth, and then kept looking for my answers in his lies, I became a volunteer to his manipulations. I became so consumed in thinking about him, in thinking about all the things I’d heard him say about me, in trying to first prove him right; I was the perfect woman. And then to prove him wrong; I wasn’t out to destroy him, hurt him, blame him for everything that was wrong. I was just out to love him and in my willful desire to love the lie, I let go of my power, I let go of my right to take care of me, to be accountable for me, to love me for all I’m worth.

These characters do not come with a sign on their foreheads marking them as predators. And we do not walk around with big red target signs on ours.

What they do is test the waters of our resistance to their bull. They keep testing until we either laugh at them and walk away, or give into their manipulations. One lie at a time.

We always have a choice. One lie at a time.

They just wait for us to make the choice that keeps us in their path for another minute, another second too long for us to collect our thoughts and right our thinking so that we can get away before the next lie hits us and we are brought down by our fear of facing the truth of their lies.

The difference for me today is, I acknowledge there are Ps and Ss and Ns and ABCs out there. In knowing they’re out there, I know that I will encounter them from time to time. And in those encounters I know it’s what I do that makes the difference in my life. Will I believe their fairy tale of how wonderful I am, or will I accept my truth and know, I’m a woman of worth. I don’t need someone else to tell me my truth. I don’t need to become the apple of someone’s eye by making myself fit a design that doesn’t suit me. My truth is, I stand confidently in the substance of who I am when I am free of looking for my worth in someone else’s eyes.

I chose once to stay the victim after hearing a lie I couldn’t believe was true. I believed I was the perfect woman of his dreams. I believed he could make all my dreams come true.

Today I know the truth. I am responsible for me. I am responsible for making all my dreams come true. Today, I love myself enough to spend every minute, every second of every day proving it. And when I treat myself to the truth, the world around me responds with limitless opportunities to be the woman I’ve always dreamt of being.

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Once again well said Louise. I am wondering if others in your life at the time saw him as the honest and plausible person you did? I know that when they con- they usually con the whole support network of their target, so the gaslighting is multiplied. “Can I be the only one that sees him this way?” If others find him worthy of their admiration…etc. etc. etc.

In my case I finally stumled upon a HUGE lie, that was repeated, and lead to death by a thousand cuts, figuratively speaking. During that time I wanted to leave, but, faced with EVERYONE believing he was decent, especially my children and very close freinds, had me feeling selfish for not forgiving his BIG LIE. I chose therapy instead- (as he also had me owned financially and I would have walked into the abyss)- and THREE different therapists told me to MOVE ON – (forgive) that I was focusing on the past blah blah. Well the lie started in the past- but was carried on for years. The level of arrogance and disrespect, the level of ownership implied, the callous disregard for my right to make my own life’s choices based on a real assesment of our situation left me reeling for well over two years. I was devastated. I worked on forgiving and forgetting, as the motto says, and as everyone advised me.

So once again, as you have pointed out in other essays, I did not trust my gut. I did not stand up and say…this is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I made a very big stink- but nothing he could not ignore. I accomodated. Then twisted myself into a mental pretzel to “make it right” between us. And you are so right. It is in our power to make choices for ourselves. It seems one of the first is to choose not to accept and level of honesty and integrity that is less than our own. Towards anyone. Anytime.

Oxy has boinked us on this many times, and rightly so.

Ultimately the abyss is just what lies ahead, with us in charge of our own well being. The big lie I told myself was that I would be leaving a person who was deep down decent and really really really “loved” me. The reason I stayed so long, was because of the lie I told MYSELF.

Peace to all,

kim frederick

Eyeswideshut says, “the reason I stayed so long, was because of the lie I told myself. I am here with you on this one!

Thanks Loise, very very wise article.


how very interesting that you wrote: He knew I was the perfect victim after the first time he tested the boundaries of my principles, and I compromised in some small way to accept a lie he told as truth.

For the first time, I now understand why he lied so much at the beginning of our relationshit. I remember how confused I was that someone could lie so much. So I went to the library to research : people who lie.

But I believe you just hit the nail on the head. He lied to TEST my reaction to his lies. To TEST how much BS I would accept without question. He KNEW, that I knew he was lying!

Months later, when I finally confronted one lie, he raged at me. He told me NEVER to call him a liar. It scared me so much that I never did again. In essence I gave him permission to lie as much as he wanted by not confronting the very first lie.

I’ve seen him do other “tests” on his marks, to see how they react and then he will pretend it was all a joke. But the blatant lie as a test had never occurred to me.



I blindly, quickly fell in love with a man. I ignored the red flags that others pointed out to me…that he was very newly divorced, that he had just relocated, that he was 25 and living with and off his sister and was a newspaper “boy” for a living, that he had long hair, that he said he had had problems with drinking before, that he was hitting on me when I was engaged to someone else. I ignored all the red flags, because my gut told me he really loved me and was a good man. So we mailed out the invitations and were married less than 5 weeks after our first date (though we had been in a class together).

It is true that alcohol continued to rear its head over the years, but he kept the problem hidden from me and it really had very little direct effect on me (though quite a bit of indirect impact at times) and he is over it now.

That man was my husband, who does indeed love me and I feel so blessed to have him and all my family and girlfriends love him too and tell me I’m so lucky to have a good man like him. And they know the “real” him.

Perhaps that experience keeps me from being too hard on myself for ignoring the red flags with the P. SOME of it is part of the normal process of falling in love. And when I read my old emails to the P, I DID react to the red flags, but then “understood” based on his explanations or even my own.

All in all, I think now that the main reason the P was able to get me in his grasp was 1) I didn’t know that emotional rapists were out there DISGUISED as really good guys, I didn’t know about psychopaths, narcissists, personality disorders, none of that!!! Had I known, I would have seen a pattern instead of just one red flag at a time. 2) my mom had trained me to think that “love and discard” over and over again was just how love was, but again, until I read Betrayal Bond I had no understanding of that. 3) I was in a very vulnerable place emotionally, as many of you were when targeted. 4) he was from my past, 40+ years ago and I ‘re-met” him online, and my radar was off kilter for both those reasons.

Where my problems came in, that I think ARE really linked to my past, is I had such trouble letting go IN MY HEAD, after I let go every other way and knew the truth. Not that going NC was easy either, it wasn’t. But getting rid of the intrusive thoughts was REALLY hard.

So it wasn’t the mistakes going in that haunt me, it is the mistakes getting out. What really did me in was just before the last big cruel dump, he had convinced me we would truly be best friends forever. To have such a sudden reversal after I finally thought all the red flags were gone, was devastating. Even now, knowing all that I do, I have to admit he was putting on a damn good show at that time that was pretty hard to see through. Not impossible, but hard.

I do think some of the p’s do believe their own lies at the time…some of the lies, but not all of the lies. But their ability to not see the truth themselves makes them very convincing actors when that happens!

M.L…..You are a very strong person now, no matter what happened in the past. Stronger than those who have never gone through the fire. Great post.

Ox Drover

Dear Louise,

Every person on LoveFraud should memorize this article and be able to recite it verbatum before we are every allowed out on the street without someone holding our hands to cross the street!

This is sooooo RIGHT ON! Oh, how I wanted to “believe” my then BF (the P) oh HOW I wanted to believe he did love me, and ONLY me! ROTFLMAO !!!!!!

I lied to myself much more than he ever lied to me (as far as I know he never even spoke the truth except by accident!)!!!

We have a family “joke” about the “Eleventh commandment” which is “Thou shalt not FOOL THYSELF” and I do believe that commandment is broken more than ALL the other Ten commandments together by a factor of hundreds. WE fool ourselves into believing in a romantic version of “SANTA CLAUS” or the “Easter bunny” or the “tooth fairy” because just like the kids WANT to believe, so do we.

Thanks for a wonderfully well written and timely article!

kim frederick

Yes, but Oxy, We can do all kinds of work on ourselves, learn how to recognize red flags, learn to love and understand ourselves, etc. etc. but how on earth do we stop wanting to believe?


Reading this article, I thank my lucky stars I got out when I did, after only a few months. I got stood up by him the second time (this time with no excuse) and shortly after, watched as all his lies unfolded before my eyes. I was completely dumbfounded. I have dated many men, but never anyone who lied repeatedly so sweetly and broke promises like it was no big deal. He seemed to live in a different world where it was okay to do these things. I have observed many bad behaviors in men, but I had never seen anything like this in my life. And I hope to God I never see it again. As I get back to my trusting self, I sometimes still think that those 2 months was some sort of aberration. I have to remember that it’s true–there really are people like this, and they’re out there lurking, waiting to take advantage of the rest of us.

Just as JAH says, the main reason I even stayed as long as I did was that I was unaware of sociopaths. I looked for logical explanations for his behaviors and I found them. Now I am smarter. I still have enough issues to sink a ship. But I don’t imagine I will ever let a sociopath slip through my radar screen again.

Ox Drover

Dear Kim,

QUOTE “How on earth do we stop wanting to believe?”

We grow up and accept reality as it is, and don’t live in a fantasy world….reality sometimes “bites” but we CAN create a reality that is wonderful, we just have to work at it.

I look in the mirror and I see REALITY—my grandmother’s face, not “my own” the way I have always “seen” myself, the way I always wanted to “believe” I look(ed) but the REALITY is that I will soon be 63 years old, and I no longer look 45, or 25…because the REALITY is I am NOT those ages.

I have to accept it for what it is. I am what I am.

There is a woman who goes regularly to the community auction where I regularly go. She is probably about 55 or so, and she dresses and acts like she is 16, in clothes that would be risque for a 16 year old. She is laughed at behind her back and called “Botox BARBIE” — she is a woman who is not unattractive FOR HER AGE but she looks ridiculous because she can’t accept the REALITY she isn’t 16 any more and her manner of dress and behavior is INAPPROPRIATE for a 55 year old woman. I have no doubt that this woman is obscessed with her looks, sexuality and so on, and is having a great deal of trouble adjusting to her natural aging, hates looking old—I heard Michael Jackson say (on tape) the other night that he hated the thought of “getting old” and that it was UGLY etc. he also said he hated his own looks (I guess maybe that is why he kept on with the plastic surgery over and over) but I can’t imagine living like that, hating myself for “getting old”—I accept REALITY, that there is no tooth fairy, no Santa claus, and I am not a 16 year old firm-breasted smooth skinned young woman any more, but I am going to be the BEST ME that I can be, and ride the Fat Ass and wear my big feather hat and have a ball in the time I have left on this earth to the best of my ability….and if someone looks at me and laughs at the “silly old woman riding a big jack ass with the wild looking hat” that is a whole lot better, to me, than looking in the mirror and hating reality or wanting to believe that I am “still a sexy young thing” like “Botox Barbie”—

My “beauty” on the outside is long gone, but i am working diligently to find and display the “beauty WITHIN” because in the end, we all end up looking like Yoda anyway! (If we live long enough!)


I’ve read that when you see someone who is older but still dresses like they did when they were teenagers, that’s a sign of narcissism. It shows a refusal to accept reality, the reality of aging. Think Picture of Dorian Gray.

Botox Barbie is waving a Red Flag.

kim frederick

yes, Oxy, I agree with all that. When I was approaching 40, I was still playing bo-tox Barbie. Then I spent 7 gut-wrenching years with my XP. Now I’ve spent 2 years with me, NC. I almost wonder if my “need” to be in a relationship was bio;ogical, or hormonal. It wasn’t a “sex” thing, it was a bonding thing, but since menopause, not at all. what do you think? Could some of our relationship addictions be chemical?


BTW, Oxy,
I really appreciate Louise’s post but it might not help Lily at this very moment. Maybe we should allow her complete focus on just her body’s healing and not her past mistakes. For now. So perhaps don’t read it to her until after all her surgeries. Just share the good wishes and love.

kim frederick

I mean, I could conclude that I had just hit a bottom, but I ha hit many bottoms before. Or maybe I could say that reality just finally won out. It’s just that it REALLY does feel hormonal, I lefthim, two months later had my last period, and quit giving a damn about men. Really. After a life time of making having one a priority. After all those years of trying to fight an almost overwhening obsession, I couldn’t care less. And I didn’t have to “work a program,” or any other kind of therapy. Isn’t it possible that some of it is biological?
I would really welcome any and all input on this. Thanks.


Hi Kim,
I can’t know about you but I’m not menopausal yet and I haven’t much interest in men either. I’m trying. They all seem old to me. They seem lacking in sex appeal. Just not attractive to me. The young guys are more attractive but then they just seem stupid. I would like someone to be with, but more for friendship and company than for that thrill that I used to long for.

Hecates path

Lovefraud Friends…

Henry… where are you? Are you out there? I haven’t “seen” you in a while, and hope you’re doin’ OK! My life is pretty hectic and I log in and check up on every body when I can… I’m here checking up on Lily updates (*thanks* Oxy!) but wanted you to know I wondered where you are and what you’re up to!?!

Geminigirl – I was so touched by your revelation that you have been corresponding with Lilly and sent her such a lovely gift… just heartwarming kindness of the purest kind. makes me smile.

I hope Lily can “feel” all of our prayers and thoughts. Like KimF said, I am sending peaceful healing thoughts/vibrations.
Kim, I “get” your metaphysical thinking and find your observations to be enlightening…

Petra… Your story has been with me throughout the day … just wanted you to know

Erin B… I caught your words of encouragement to me on the other thread… thanks for your validation and empowering thoughts. The other day I told my friend she was gonna need to get tough with her ex and caught myself saying “you’ve got to be like Erin B and do x, y and z” She asked me who Erin B was and I said “a friend who knows how to take a stand and is a real tough gal” My friend replied “oh I thought you meant Erin Brockovich from the movie…” and I said “no my friend could teach that Erin a thing or two! ” 😉

Matt, last but not least… once again I read a post in which someone thanked you for your legal advice insight, and as always I am so touched by the way in which you share your legal expertise here and make such a difference when you do. Your “free” legal advice here is priceless! I hope things are going well for you…

Good night all!

Ox Drover

Dear HP,

you came in like a “little ray of sunshine” this evening! Thanks so much!

I think I am bound for beddie bye too!

Skylar, I just talked to Lily a few minutes ago and she is a bit confused right now (that is NOT ABNORMAL considering the physical shape she is in!) so I just told her that everyone sends their love. Apparently her nurse daughter called back to cause more problems and the stress caused Lily’s chest to start hurting “about 10 minutes ago” (at the time I had called her room) I asked her if she had called the nurse about the chest pain, and she said “no” I figure it is just being upset from the phone call (from daughter) and it may have been just that (sort of a stress attack) but I told her I would hang on the phone while she called the nurse and I heard her push the button, but she couldn’t remember to tell the nurse who answered that her chest hurt. when the nurse got there Lily put me on the phone and I told the nurse that she was I thought a bit confused and the nurse agreed that she was, but I did tell the nurse that Lily was DISTRAUGHT over her children and that might be causing her some problems with the chest pain. so anyway, the nurses are aware and her cardiologist is the same one that two years ago told her “Your children are NOT your friends” so he knows too.

That done, there isn’t really anything any of us can do at this point but pray and I’ll keep in touch by phone as much as possible with her, at least daily. She is scheduled to have the surgery for the cancer Friday if the angiogram shows her heart is strong enough to undergo the surgery. May have the results of angiogram tomorrow. thanks guys! Love oxy


You made me LAUGH a big belly laugh! My kids came running!
They have NO IDEA their mother can kick some serious butt!
THANKS for that!
You are so sweet!
Tell your friend don’t bother taking names! Do what she has to do! Ya know?!
I think what helped me most was the cancer….when you face the possiblities….It took the fear out of dying for me… I wasn’t going to let him scare me!
You have a great night…..and stick around girlfriend!



“I’ve read that when you see someone who is older but still dresses like they did when they were teenagers, that’s a sign of narcissism. It shows a refusal to accept reality,”

I don’t get ‘foofey’ surgeries (only gallbladder and cancer surgeries, oh yeah C-sections too!), I dress in sweats, I rarely wear makeup, (it attracts dates), all around…most days, I look like a mess…..

So, does this mean….I’m not a narcissist…….YIPPEEEE!

WHEW…..that is a relief!



Bring it on home girl!…..
Great post.
I believe I was targeted as the cute, innocent, athletic, little girl….
I was 13 he was almost 19….eeeessshhhh!
He would tell me “I’m going to mold you into what I want”…..
OH, I thought that was pure love….it had to be! He was older and he LIKED ME!
That meant something!
YEAH…..he was a pedo and a FREAK!
But I bought into it all…..I allowed him to mold me….by believing his lies…..his tests….I passed them all!
I gave up me to be molded by him….willingly…..he was the answer to my happiness. (So I thought, until just recently)
Thanks again for a wonderful post…your writings are an inspiration.


M.L. Gallagher


Get well soon Lily


Thankyou for all you have done and said to me Lily, I miss you and love you NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!


“With every moment I stayed stuck in the quagmire of his deceit, I became more and more convinced he was all I deserved. In accepting he was all I deserved, I had to accept I really was stupid because what was happening to me felt so wrong. To make the wrong right, I had to give up on looking for my truth away from him and accept I was as helpless as he told me. He told me there was nothing I could do to stop him, to leave him, or to change my life. I chose to believe him because to not believe him meant having to do something different. And I was too scared to do anything different. His lies became the truth I breathed and ate and consumed. His lies consumed me and I had to keep believing him in order to keep myself from facing the truth of his lies.”

This spoke very loudly to me …this is exactly the inner process I experienced in excusing the ommissions of information and outright lies. I would drive myself crazy reading pages and pages trying to find what was wrong with me that I was attracting this kind of treatment … there was nothing wrong with me at all! I was having a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. He almost had me believing I was the problem and almost had me believing I really was crazy – of course I FELT crazy by then with all the deceit and manipulation.

Ten wasted years. I can never get them back. Thanks so much for this post – it really sums up the insidious effects of intermittant lying on an intimate relationship. I could never explain why it hurt so much but you managed to put it into words – thankyou again.


M.L. Gallagher such a great post. I know 10months is not a long amount of time compared to others but the 10months spent with S was just time wasted I thought today I wasted almost a year of my life trying to make something fit that wasn’t made to fit. He tried his best to take my self-esteem away from me he told me: don’t know body else want you be me. He critized everything about me from the gray hair that just starting to take place to the size of my breast which been (small) every since I develop them. I never had no one pick me apart physically as much as he did. I never had a problem getting men and where I live an in my race there is 10 men to every woman (young and old) He had me comparing my self to younger girls something I never done in the past. I know your suppose to forgive and forget I may forget some of the things he did and said to me but no way in Hell can I ever forgive him!!!!!


Louise – What a fantastic, right on the money article.

“He knew I was the perfect victim after the first time he tested the boundaries of my principles, and I compromised in some small way to accept a lie he told as truth.” My SP told me I was the perfect woman also!

It’s crazy to understand now how I could have let myself transform from this completely strong, sane, intelligent woman to a WEAK form of nothingness! Thinking back, I felt so out of control. I searched every waking moment for truth to his craziness. I thought about and analyzed every one of our conversations. Hearing only what I wanted to hear…..never seeing through his web of deceit! You want soooo badly to break free, but you can’t. The fear of losing “what you THINK you have” is so great. “I can try harder, do better, be a better person.” They dimish you to that. Thinking that all that is wrong is YOUR fault. If only I’d have followed my “first” instincts MUCH sooner, I could have saved myself so much pain and heartache! I completely see what you’re saying Louise.

I had no idea I was dealing with a SP. None whatsoever. As many others experience as well. I only wish there were some way to help others from having to experience the pain and heartache that all of us here have felt.


Luv- I believe that after all we’ve been through, we are entitled to “NEVER FORGIVE”. After everything fell apart, I thought that the only way to move on was to forgive him. I tried and tried to be the better person. Then he kept coming back and messing with my mind – hurting me over and over again for the sack of his pleasure. For him to prove he was still in control. Personally, I will NEVER FORGIVE THAT B**TARD! EVER! But I WILL get up and move on with a new strength and determination that I’m gaining here on LF and from other souces as well. Stay strong!


I meant “sake” of his pleasure! Oops! 🙂


Sarasims, thats the thing, the control thats one thing I notice is that he had to be in control he told me now that I’m broke basically every thing is on him but girl he have not once step up to the plate and done anything for me its all about him I have never in my life meet a man as selfish as he is!!!!


YES…..SELFISH is the key word. I have even told my SP that HE is the most selfish person I’ve ever met….ALL about him!


Its funny because I have never once told my SP that he was selfish but I did tell him he was money hungry and lot of the things he did that I didn’t approve of I never voice to him because I was to busy trying to make things good I knew a lot of things he was lying about and I would never tell him. Im mad at myself for being so passive. I was so out of character in that relationship I want to be in love again that bad!!!!!!


I figured it out.
I sit here thinking of ways to explain to a P why non-P’s are motivated to be compassionate and selfLESS. But how do you explain to someone who understands only selfISH motives?
I realized that when we reach out to give we feel good. Somehow, it makes us hopeful. Hopeful for the future. I was wondering why that would be. Then I realized, it’s because we are logically thinking: If I can give to others, then there are people out there who also like to give and I feel hope and trust that others will be compassionate and giving toward me.

When you take and hurt others, you are thinking just the opposite. You see what you have done and realize there are others who can will do the same to you. So your feelings are of fear and anger.

We do create our own brain patterns by the choices we make and the way we choose to behave. and then those patterns feed more of the same choices.

My xP is so evil, it is beyond what I ever could have imagined. and it’s because of so many choices to be evil and to enjoy evil. He now feels a constant fear and hatred to all humanity, but especially towards women who have been the target of his evil most often.


Hey Skylar, in the beginning, the thing is that they show us everything we’ve ever wanted in a relationship. They are perfect! They do their homework very well and know just the right things to say and do.

In the beginning he used to tell me how every woman he had ever loved turned around in the end and wanted to hurt him or destroy him. They would stalk him and couldn’t seem to understand that it was over. They were all CRAZY. I just couldn’t understand how one man could attract only crazy women in his relationships. But they weren’t crazy at all. He made them that way. Then he kept playing games with them, giving them some sense of hope for the relationship. WHY? Why call it quits with someone ….well, he never really called it quits – just disappeared without a word….then keep appearing to get what you want and leave again. It’s the EVIL within them!

You’re absolutely right….they hate all of humanity and only see use for it when it provides a gain for them. OR they can boast or brag!

My SP use to brag about his worth all the time and it makes me sick to think now that I encouraged it. Would agree with him and stroke his sick ego! UCK….argh…..I can’t even believe now that I actually thought he was a good person. It truly disgusts me.


BTW…..he once told me in a very embarrassed manner (said he was ashamed of it now!) that he started counting one night how many women he had slept with and it was well over 100!!! Why do you think he would feel it important that I know that? It was in the beginning and we hadn’t even been together yet. Maybe he was testing me? I should have RUN then!!!


Sarasims, did you ever speak up an tell him or talk to him about all of the b.s. that he took you through? or was you passive and just stayed quite hoping it would all work out?


Luv- I used to question him alot when we were together and it made him really angry. Now I realize that he was angry bc I was becoming wise to his ways. But he would manage to sweet talk his way out of it….telling me “you are the only one in this world that thinks I’m a good person, please don’t be this way with me” so I’d eventually fall for it and let it go. But since we’ve been apart, every time he’s shown up, I’ve given in to him….then realized what it was about (all a game!) and let him have it!!! I’ve been able to really get things off my chest and tell him exactly what I think! It’s been mostly through email….but I’ve told him that I know exactly what he is about….he’s a SP and I layed out that I knew exactly what he did to me. He knows that I and that’s why we aren’t together any longer……I STOPPED letting him do what he wanted to do to me. I told him I would NOT be his whore!!! I drew the line in the sand and now I’m NC. If he comes back again….I’ll be ready!

BTW him KNOWING that I know all of these things really makes no difference….he of course doesn’t care…..but what it does tell him is that I’m smarter than he gave me credit and I WONT take his SH** EVER AGAIN!


I’m glad you spoke up. I think its eating me up inside that I did’t speak up. I text a while ago an let him know that he used me (he denied it) and that he left me without nothing but it seem to went in one ear and out the other. I’m doing the NC but it seem to be hurting me way more than its hurting him because this is all he wanted so now he don’t have to pay me back. He’s going on with his everyday life, while mine is torn apart.


YES Luv – and telling him anything at this point is just a mute point. It just shows him that you still care….and you don’t want to give him that satisfaction. I wished I would have gone NC LONG before I did. But I guess that is the one positive thing is that I got my feelings across.


Is it when you show them that you still care giving them power?


In reality he do have the power, he got everything he wanted and got away with it without repercussions, Its so hard to say I will just have to take my lost because I did what I did from my heart. Not to hold on to him but because I thought thats what you do when you love each other have each other back when times are hard. I know his not a normal individual but I guess this just what I will be dealing trying to get over being used!!!!!!!!!


Yes, they know that they still have you where they want you. So they are in control. My therapist once told me….”silence drives a person crazy”…that goes both ways. When you don’t talk to him….he has no idea what you are thinking!! When you lash out….yes, you are angry…..but bc you still care. Yes, he got away with no repercussions at all… SP did too. But their day WILL come!!! As hard as it is, you and I have to be thankful they didn’t do more harm than they already did. Here on earth OR after….their day will come!


Thank you so much for your insight. Not a pity party just a hurting heart.


Do it drive them crazy because they know they done you wrong? But it they don’t have empathy honestly does it matter to them SOB’s


Luv – I’m so there with you. Just a few steps ahead in the healing! I know bc I see where you are. Don’t give him any more of your precious heart!!! Hang in there with me!


Aww, Thank-you


Sarasims, I am learning that forgiving the Narcs and ps in our life does NOT mean that we condone, in any way, what they have done to us, how they have robbed us mentally, emotionally, financially and spiritually. However, if we DONT forgive them, its like drinking poison ourselves, and expecting that person to die!. The bitterness will corrode our soul and twist our insides. So, its really a SELFISH act to forgive them, it sets them free , and it sets US free from them! Forgiving does not mean we have to ever see them again if we dont want to.Sometimes we wonder if we will EVER be able to forgive that person,if they have done something especially mean and hurtful to you. Thats when we have to cry out to God to help us to do the impossible. I remember reading in the book “The Hiding Place,” by the Dutch christian lady and resistance worker, Corrie ten Boom. She was,{even tho she wasnt a jew}, thrown into Ravensbruck concentration camp by the Nazis, along with her old father, and her sister, Betsy.They had hidden Jews in the attic of their home in Holland. Betsy died in Ravensbruck, as a result of being starved almost to death, catching typhus, and being savagely beaten by one of the camp guards. Corrie somehow survived the horrors of the camp, altho her old dad also died. A year or two after the war was over, she was coming out of Church one day, and a man came towards her, his hand outstretched. It was the former camp guard, who had become a christian, he begged Corri to forgive him for killing her sister Betsy. His hand was outstretched, waiting. Corrie said,”I sent up a quick prayer to jesus, saying,” You will have to help me here, as I just cant forgive that brute of a man for killing poor Betsy.” At that moment, an electric shock went down her right arm,and when she stretched it out and took the mans hand, she felt God,as an electric current , shaking the mans hand for her.After that incident, she was completely healed, permanently, of ALL her bitterness and unforgiveness, thru Jesus!A wonderful true story. Love, gem.XX


Skylar said:
“I sit here thinking of ways to explain to a P why non-P’s are motivated to be compassionate and selfLESS. But how do you explain to someone who understands only selfISH motives?”

Skylar, you would have much better luck beating your head repeatedly against a brick wall.


I never got to rage at my sociopath before I went NC. As soon as I figured out his games, I told him not to contact me any more. After that I wrote the angry email and sent it, but it bounced back. He had already blocked me from emailing him. In retrospect, it doesn’t matter. He wouldn’t have heard it, understood, or cared. I may as well have been shouting at a tree.

The smoothest sociopath (as mine was) will listen to your anger and agree with you. They will admit they screwed up and say they are lucky to have a wonderful person like you. You will feel sorry for them and take them back. Then they turn around and play the same games. This is why it’s just dangerous and futile to try and talk to them. Why share your precious innermost feelings with them? If they don’t totally ignore you, they will find a way to use your feelings against you. It’s a lose-lose. Let NC be your final and best revenge.


LOL, your words brought back an image that constantly flashed in my head when I was with the xP: me talking to a brick wall.

That’s exacly how I felt when I tried to talk to him. But this time, when I imagined that very same brick wall I saw myself beating my head on it.

I wonder if I’ll dream about it tonight.


A brick wall will treat you more kindly. It will not try to seduce you or take your money or lie to you. And it can be quite attractive as a backsplash in your kitchen. LOL Perhaps you should consider working with bricks and mortar as a therapeutic tool. ha ha ha

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