New research shows that emotional and physical pain draw responses from the same regions of the brain.
Read To the brain, getting burned, getting dumped feel the same, on CNN.com.
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How to recognize and recover from everyday sociopaths - narcissists
Oh my…..this is such an interesting article, but a potentially dangerous one for those who suffer from Fibromyalgia.
Often, it’s hard to find a doctor who doesn’t immediately assume that what you’re feeling is “all in your head”…take care of the head stuff and you’ll be fine.
That is devastating to patients who are suffering from this illness, and I’m one of them. It was FINALLY diagnosed by a doctor who understood fibro to be a real illness and treated it accordingly. It was at that time I was better able to manage the illness. Fibromyalgia also comes with coexisting conditions that are routinely seen and need management, such a thyroid disease, migraines, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Lupus, Arthritis, Raynaud’s syndrome, etc.
Having said that, this article points out the connections that are obvious between the mind and body. Fibromyalgia obviously is aggravated by stress, but I also noticed, that for me personally, it’s aggravated by simple UNemotional events, such as weather changes. It can also flare if something GREAT is happening as well. Right now, it’s aggravated more not only with emotional stress and trauma, but also MENOPAUSE. FUN!
Again, I think this research is dangerous in validating physicians who are oftentimes very cruel to patients who are suffering so much pain and accuse the patient of having some mental health issue that’s the direct cause. I don’t buy it.
This is a good article in provoking much debate and thought!
LL
Dear LL,
As a former primary health care provider, I saw patients in clinic all the time who had psycho-genic and STRESS RELATED physical pain complaints. IT DOES NOT MEAN THE PAIN IS NOT REAL, it is VERY REAL, but it means that the root cause is not a red hot poker or a broken leg or a tumor or cancer, it is caused from an entirely different thing and has become “chronic.”
I also had fibro diagnosed in 1988 back when it was considered a “problem with your head.” Back when many doctors didn’t even think it was real.
Since those days most physicians and health care providers are finally realizing that “pain is the OTHER VITAL SIGN.” In fact, it is even a requirement now when you go to a rural health clinic that the nurse or doctor ASK YOU what your pain rating is from 1 to 10.
This article does not do what you are saying about give physicians cart blanche to not listen to patients. I think because you have had problems with this in the past from docs that you are over reacting a bit to this article.
STRESS causes a lot of things to go wrong with the body and mind and pain is one of those things….there is also a GENE for how pain is perceived which is different for different people. Certain animals don’t seem to perceive pain like other animals. In addition there are various chemicals that are pain killers that are released by the brain under different conditions that actually act like morphine to deaden pain for a while. Broken bones release these chemicals for several hours after a break occurs. It is part of the “fight or flight” syndrome as well.
The Great White Pyrenees breed of guard dogs tolerate a HUGE amount of pain with apparently little or no awareness of it. I had a dog that got terribly cut once and I had to sew her up, and she stood there like I was just petting her instead of sewing…and another one that had surgery and even the vet commented that the dog acted like there was no reason for pain. They have to not have much pain awareness because they will fight a bear to the death, though they are the most gentle of dogs otherwise. I had one dog that was attacked by 3 pits at the same time and torn almost limb from limb but he stayed with it until he had killed all three of the pits. From the way he acted, he didn’t seem to be in any pain.
I have seen patients that would go bonkers with a paper cut and others that would come in with a collapsed lung and just say calmly “Oxy, my chest hurts a little bit” and I have literally had a patient come to me crying like a kid with a broken leg because her “back hurt” and the CAUSE??? I’m serious, a TINY PIMPLE in the middle of her back—tiny! But her PAIN was real, not imagined…her PERCEPTION OF PAIN is hers uniquely.
Culture is also part of how we perceive pain, both physical and emotional.
I realize how frustrating it can be when a care provider does not validate your reports of pain….it is the same kind of frustration when people do not validate the kind of “pain” we have emotionally from the psychopaths. It is that devaluation of ourselves—devaluing our CORE values.
That being the case, I have always advised anyone to find another doctor if your doctor does not listen to you….even my doctor and I disagree sometimes, SHE LISTENS to me, and then tells me why I’m full of carp if I am, but she does NOT DEVALUE ME.
Ox,
You make a very valid point with regards to devaluing a patient in pain.
I’m okay with my opinion on this and continue to think that overall, it would set a dangerous precedence in the medical field and validating those physicians who DEVALUE this condition. I don’t say this because I was the only one affected by such devaluing, which can feel like cruelty when one is suffering from fibro, but many others I know who were devalued in the same way and the quest to find a physician who validated the patient’s pain was an exercise in frustration for sure. Those of us who have had to deal with the frustration of finding a doc who would treat beyond “the it’s all in your head theory”( and we both know the medical field is FULL of spaths), understand that MUCH MORE needs to be done in training up and coming physicians with regards to fibro. I DO think I was VERY fortunate to have found two great docs who validated and diagnosed the illness for what it was. And when you get a good doc (even if you don’t agree on everything lol) you KEEP THEM. I have personally given references to friends of mine or even acquaintances through friends, who are struggling with pain issues to the doc I see now. GIven how many patients she sees in a week/month, routinely tells me there is still little supply to fit the demand.
I do agree about the perceptions of pain. It would be interesting to read more about that through research about brain function, etc.
I hope this new research fuels what has been the ongoing debate of mind/body connections and that MORE research will be done to connect more dots on this issue of pain. It’s interesting for sure.
Have you read the book by Devin Starlanyl “Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain- A survivor’s Manual”? Great read and got me through the early days of having been newly diagnosed. She discusses the invalidation may patients are subjected too in trying to get answers to their pain and suffering.
LL
Dear LL,
Nope haven’t read that one I have read most of the current research on FM though… I manage my pain with 2 coated ASA twice a day….exercise, and just getting on with life. I decided a long time ago that a certain amount of pain was preferable to some of the “treatments”—and I know people who use everything from smoking grass to heavy narcotics and morphine and I decided as long as I could tolerate the pain and still live with it, I’d do so, but on the other hand, not going to let pain rule my life either, just have to sort of hit a “happy medium” there are some things that it isn’t worth the problems caused by the “treatments”—kind of like the same reason I am getting my tattoo the day I turn 65…”NO CPR” tattoo’d over my left breast! That’s no joke either! I really do plan to do that.
Learning to VALIDATE myself LL is something that has been very healing for me….not just in emotional trauma or pain, but in physical ailments and pain as well. Sometimes there are things about which medical science can’t find a “cause” and can’t find a “cure” and all we can do is accept the fact that there may not be a pill or a treatment that will “work” on it. Or it may be a problem that someone else can’t see….we just have to accept that WE can validate ourselves. As of right now there is no way to diagnose FM with a test of any kind, or know what the Cause is or cause-S (plural) and so we sort of have to be willing to accept that there isn’t an answer yet. There are LOTS OF THINGS that there is no clear cut answer as to why or treatments. “Psychopathy” is one of those things that is an “interpretation” of what is a group of SYMPTOMS….so is FM and other (many other) disorders that cause pain or disability.
Our body’s ability to respond to both phsycial, mental and emotional stresses both INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL is what keeps us alive. Medicine is just barely scratching the surfaces.
Ox
The book is a great read and helped me to understand what I was dealing with, thus validating the experiences I’ve had with fibro. I liked several of her approaches as well because it seemed that the big guns (narcotics, etc) were less necessary than other approaches with holistic approaches, acupuncture (I’d really like to try this actually), herbal teas, vitamins, etc. etc etc…
On my REALLY bad days, i won’t hesitate to take my narcotic medication if I have too. But I’m not a big pill taker.
Medical/mental health sciences are forever evolving and it will be interesting to see where we are in another ten to twenty years.
I think part of validating yourself means discovering what works for you. And what works for others, may not work for me. I’m glad what you do works for you, ox. 🙂
LL
Having been involved in primary care main-stream medicine for so long, as well as holistic approaches and some alternative therapies (note: I said SOME alternative therapies, some are quackery!) I try to work on evidenced-based medicine and science as well as keeping an open mind.
Unfortunately, you can find people here or there who believe that drinking “cat cheet tea” will cure AIDS or any other such crock of carp! So you have to be careful in what you are using and what you believe about various treatments. Looking at the RISK VERSUS BENEFITS RATIO. In any kind of treatment (including NO treatment) there is risk versus benefit. So you just have to look at what the potentials are on either end of the spectrum.
LL,
I can swear to the efficacy of holistic treatments for fibro. I was finally diagnosed in 94, after 4 yrs of arguing with doctors. I had SEVERE pain, low immunity, chronic fatigue, all of it except IBS. The pain was sometimes so severe that my brain would just Go Out, & I’d have what I called “pain fits” for 3-5 days: shaking & spazzing & groaning & mumbling incoherently….unaware of anything but pain. I took 3-5 Ultram a day, & was given 10 Demerol a month for “bad days”…..which didn’t even touch it on a bad day.
3 things: I started with an incredible deep tissue massage therapist in 96…..her little fingers can zero in on Anything Anywhere, & tho I used to call her “Debo-Rah, Queen of Pain” for the depth & intensity of her work, as soon as I’d get off the table the pain would be gone. She still works on me, but only a couple of times a month now.
Acupuncture: my massage therapist referred me to an incredible acupuncturist in 98, (who I also still see occasionally),
& about the same time they both referred me to an InCredible neuro-chiropractor.
Between 98 & 2002, I saw all 3 of them weekly. Massage & acupuncture at least 1x a wk, & my neuro-chiropractor 3x a wk. By 2002 I’d stopped taking Ultram, hadn’t taken Demerol in several years, & no longer had “pain fits”, & my daily pain was totally manageable.
I attribute the biggest part of my healing to my neuro-chiropractor. The only reason I stopped seeing him was because he’d moved away, but by that time, I was on my way to healing.
And, of course, there were other factors like REFUSING to believe that MY fibro was incurable….& doing less intense physical labor (I stopped working construction!)….& always, always taking LOTS of vitamins, doing B-12 injections (which I still do 3x a wk….most of us fibro-prone people don’t absorb B-12 thru the gut effectively)….& not having eaten mammal meat since 1968 (mammal meat produces uric acid in our muscles & makes it harder to avoid muscle spasms.)
I’m totally opposed to all those pharmaceuticals like Lyrica or whatever it is. I was once in a fibro support group where all the women took bizarre cocktails of pharmaceuticals & I don’t know that any of them ever healed. I told them that I preferred to keep my cocktails simple—something my body could easily understand: gin & tonic. 🙂
But I also believe that Healing Human Hands are what gave my life back to me.
Sympathy & blessings on your fibro…..I understand the suffering that comes with it!
And I can attest to the PAIN of being told your bladder pain is all in your head and told you need a psychiatrist not a urologist, by a well-respected urologist….and FINALLY 15 years later getting the bladder removed….because, oh yeah, it was NOT in my head, the inside of my bladder was covered with pinpoint hemorrhages, and every time urine hit my bladder (constantly), it was like pouring vinegar on open wounds.
Sorry, but I see RED whenever anyone starts talking about the mental causes of diseases, or links, etc. I suffered HUGELY for 15 years because of gibberish like that. Finally, after my bladder was removed, sex didn’t hurt anymore AND I could sleep more than one hour at a time….in fact all night long.
And don’t even THINK of asking me “what did your disease teach you?” or “How did you attract that into your life?” My answer will be to ask you how you attracted my fist into your face! Actually, I’m not violent, but just trying to say DO NOT GO THERE, at least with me!
And on another note, yes, the psychopath made me ill. I had the runs anytime I even thought about breaking no contact. Also got a couple of panic attacks from thinking about breaking no contact. My body was literally saying “You will see him over our dead body” I knew it would literally kill me one way or another to get re-involved.
So I guess I would say that in my experience, when the mental IS causing pain it is pretty clear! So yes, it happens, but I think we are pretty aware when our thinking is effecting our body. At least I am. If a doctor had told me maybe I had irritable bowel syndrome, I would have said, no I have irritating to the nth degree psychopath syndrome!
Never,
Yep. I get ya. There is nothing more aggravating to live within the confines of unbearable pain to be told you need to seek psychiatric care and NOT medical care. You’d think by now, that physicians across the board would understand the mind/body connection, but there are A LOT of pain related illnesses that are NOT the result of an underlying psychiatric stressor (PAIN IN AND OF ITSELF CAN CAUSE PSYCHIATRIC ISSUES! PARTICULARLY IF YOU’RE INVALIDATED ABOUT YOUR PAIN!), and then there ARE psychiatric stressors/illnesses that AGGRAVATE the physical issues or bring on chronic illness! Mind/body, get the picture?
It’sMe, yours and Oxy’s approaches shows that what works for one may not for another. I think it’s very individualized. Ox is right about that. I really appreciate your experiences from the holistic perspective. I heard rumor the last couple of days that acupuncture will now be apart of our poorly run state medical insurance and if it is SO, I will SURELY try it! I can’t afford deep massage therapy, although my stepmother treated me to it once and boy was it AWESOME!
There is so much left to be discovered about the mind/body connection!
Never, I do agree with you that the experience with a psychopath definitely adversely affects health. ONe hundred percent as any trauma, I believe, does.
LL