Yesterday, Lovefraud had an intruder. I saw this guy’s first couple of posts, which struck me as odd, but not necessarily offensive. I decided to keep an eye on him.
Before long, however, several longtime Lovefraud contributors began attacking this individual. I thought the attacks were unwarranted.
We have had occasions in the past when people started accusing newcomers of being sociopaths. I think this is a very dangerous thing to do based on a few posts that may sound different from what we generally see here.
Meaning is missing
Experts have found that 65 percent to 90 percent of the meaning in human communication comes from nonverbal cues—tone of voice, gestures, posture. That means when the primary form of communication is via words on a computer monitor, 65 percent to 90 percent of the meaning is missing.
So how can we be sure of a person’s intentions? Not everyone is an expressive writer—some people may be stiff and formal. And not everyone may speak (and write) English as a first language.
Furthermore, Lovefraud.com is not a closed, invitation-only forum. It is open to the public, so it is quite possible that we have readers who are not victims, or former victims, of sociopaths. People who have been lucky enough not to have experienced the assault of a sociopath have a very different perspective from those of us who have been there. They may wonder, in writing, what all the bellyaching is about. That doesn’t mean they are sociopaths.
We also may have people who jump into a conversation without much of an introduction. There is no prerequisite that people tell their stories before participating in the Lovefraud Blog. Someone may just want to make an observation or pose a question. The post may sound different from what we generally see. That doesn’t make him or her a sociopath.
Jumping to conclusions is not helpful. In one situation, a person was attacked in what I believe was simply a case of mistaken identity.
Negative intentions
Now, it does turn out that everyone who sensed negative intentions on the part of yesterday’s intruder was right. Checking the IP address, I found that it was the same guy who showed up a few days ago. He actually posted on another forum, where predators apparently compare notes, that he hacked into his girlfriend’s computer and found references to Lovefraud. He then invited all his cronies to launch an attack on this blog.
A few Lovefraud contributors did write to me to express concerns, which I appreciate. I was watching this individual. But I admit that he began to show his true colors after I was away from the computer, and I didn’t react quickly. Now, however, I have deleted all his posts.
Personal attacks are not tolerated
The policy at Lovefraud is that personal attacks against other bloggers are not tolerated. I ask everyone, even long-time contributors who suspect a predator, to observe this policy.
So when you believe that someone is here to cause trouble, please do not engage. Do not react. Do not take the bait. Because when we do, we just feed the beast, and the entire Lovefraud conversation degenerates.
It’s important for us to be listening to our intuition. But when we get messages that something is amiss, what should we do? In the real world, we advocate No Contact. I believe we should do the same on Lovefraud.
Remember, they’re looking for a reaction. If we don’t give it, most of them just go away.
Kathy, I totally agree with your take on this, and I don’t have an “answer” other than notifying Donna, which I did after the FIRST post of this person yesterday to bring Donna’s attention to it.
We also have to realize that the LF Blog is a public SERVICE of Donna’s and that she has to have time to make a LIVING like most people on here and it isn’t not made off LF. When I saw the PREVIOUS OBVIOUS ATTACK I e mailed her, then decided to CALL her since it was so BLATANT an attack. The most recent one was not quite so blatant, and I thought she might like to KEEP AN EYE ON this person.
Other blogs that are also suvivor groups are also subjected to these attacks as well, LF is not alone and recently a blog that I am not on, but a friend is on, was HORRIBLY attacked and part of the board of directors and managers did NOT get it and wanted to “give them another chance”—that’s like giving a murderer “another chance” cause it might have been a “mistake” LOL
We DO NOT want, however, to mistake a real victim because they do not have English as a first language or because they don’t speak well, but at the same time as I said on another thread where you posted (in reply to your very excellent post) I suggested that we use this attack as a POSITIVE LEARNING EXPERIENCE, because it WILL Arise again. sooner rather than later me thinks.
Some of us “old hands” can see the flags on some of them right away, and some just peak our interest and make us “note” them. Newbies may not “get it” right away or at all. There was an instance a year or more ago when aloha and I were attacked by a blogger who had come here not for “validation” but to prove something (not sure what) and I feel that she/he was a P who had been involved with a P. A “gasoline and fire” relationship as it were (can’t remember who said that but I thinnk it is VERY discriptive) In any case, when she left (Donna eventually banned her) she took several REAL VICTIMS with her. I was so devestated by it at the time, I was going to quit posting here, so I can understand somewhat the FEAR of being attacked on the blog and the hurt at being attacked. Fortunately, I did not let it deter me from being here and I will never let anyone run me off because my feelings are hurt–LF is too important to me.
By discussing though, what REAL posters look like and what FAKE ones look like I think we could all learn from this and get something GOOD out of a BAD SITUATION. What’ya think?
Donna,
I do have a question about the Blog. Realizing that many Ps may be reading it and “using” the information we are so eager to share with one another, in however general terms, is there a way to “screen” the bloggers? I realize that a blog “by invitation” or with screening each statement would be a very difficult and probably an impossible venture, but my IT knowledge is limited. This site has been a safe heaven to so many and an Eye opener about many issues. But, each time “this” happens, I worry about the information getting into wrong hands and being misused. So, then the only thing we can share comfortably is “how hurt we are” and not seek ideas re our legal battles, our domestic issues, and parenting concerns. Would like to see how others feel, but I for one would not object to having to share one’s story to become invited and then to have a way to converse with each other outside of the general group ( by invitation only Rooms were used in some blogs, I believe).
HI KATHLEEN AND ROSA!
I have left you a message on “love, sex , your brain and Sociopaths”.
Unless Donna has deleted it by now.
I agree with Kathleen.
In the begining this person was engaged in conversation to expose the true intentions of this blogger. Without doing this it seems that very vulnerable or new people might engage with them and become totally frightened and leave here before they even understood what happened to them.
Seems like this will happen again and we should be prepared.
I am saddened to see that many peoples feelings are hurt and this blogger has succeded in doing ONE of the things he came to do.
Tilly,
I hope you are polishing your boomerang and coming back.
It was the vicious lashing out other bloggers and at Donna, along with smearing accusations against Donna, that bothered me and it has continued even though Pianoman has left the board. Maybe it is just my perception, but some of that nastiness and insults and accusations struck me as very pathological and having nothing to do with trying to get rid of Pianoman although that was the “excuse” for them. I get that victims have to work thru anger, but really………
…or lemme put it this way. If all those insults against fellow bloggers and the lovefraud board owner was part of a “playscript” to get rid of Pianoman, well, I have been around this board for ages and lets say the “playscript” got me confused by it……….then my take is that if newbies are on board and see this type of interaction they would likely conclude “victims” are as nutty and vicious as the sociopaths.
i agree. talking about the board owner in that way definitely seemed highly inappropriate ( name calling and all definitely went far), no matter in what distress we are. having self control is exactly what separates us from ‘ them’….at the same time we are all human and sometimes slip, it seemed like the board owner took the high road and continued to set an example.
I agree, Jen and mariaLisa,
I advocate “taking the high road” and yet, sometimes even I do not always take at least the “highest” road. I too interacterd with P.M. and I knew better but Idid it anyway…..
However, because we do know that sometimes we are “triggered” to outrageous anger by various things that are in themselves not much or not even meant as an insult, we take them as an “attack” on us and lash out. That lashing out is a SYMPTOM of the PTSD that some of us get from being abused in the first place.
An example, and I am not picking on him, but that guy a few days ago that our SWEET Henry lashed out and told to go F’himself is a prime example of someone who is a really sweet person who because of his victimization in the past, reacted with overwhelming ANGER. Henry, BTW apologized for this lashing out and I KNOW he was sincere with his apology. I too apologized to Donna very sincerely for even engaging once with the P. M. I should not have done it.
Learning to keep our tempers in check is all a part of the learning process and I do not condemn anyone for being “triggered” and lashing out, I can only hope that they do not push away the REAL FRIENDS that they have by CONTINUING to be angry and lash out. A BIG part, I think, of our victimization is that we (victims) do sometimes lash out at the very people who would supoort us if we weren’t so injured and lashing out.
Sort of like, I have used the analogy before of, an injured and wounded puppy dog lying on the road after being hit by a car, will bite the loving owner’s hand as he reaches to pick it up and take it to the vet. The otherwise loving pet, in his incredible pain bites the hand that actually loves it and is helping it. None of us would hold a grudge if our own dog did this, so we must, I think, also have compassion for our fellow former victims who might lash out at us.
Jen2008, you wrote that you get that victims have to work through anger. I think that’s what you were seeing in Tilly. She was working through anger in her abusive relationship, and this became part of it.
She also used sarcasm (or irony) to deal with both him and the situation around her, as she felt unsupported and isolated. I’m “reading her mind” here, but I think it’s probably accurate.
Judging each other is one of the most destructive things we can do, and it’s one of the really ugly impacts of these malignant intrusions. This isn’t the first time one of them has set us against each other.
I think that Tilly was trying to do the right thing. And yes, the playscript got confusing, which is why I tried to step in once in a while and echo her, hoping it would make more sense to everyone else.
But because she stepped up as a warrior in this situation didn’t mean that her emotional vulnerabilities went away. She’s angry at Donna because Donna hurt her feelings. I think that Donna must have deleted some other posts that Tilly made, because the only knowledge I have of attacks on other people was the last post she wrote to me. Hopefully she’ll work it out with Donna, because Donna was, as always, trying to do the right the thing for the board.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know that in my angry stage I was incendiary. I lashed out at a lot of people, when I thought they were betraying me. Later, as I worked through more of my anger, I became more understanding of other people’s situations and realities. The people who are still my friends today recognized that I was in an angry phase and gave me some slack.
MariaLisa, I think what separates us from them is that we can feel for other people.
The problem with these intrusion is that they have this sort of ripple effect. A lot of people get triggered. Whether they get scared, angry or just want to drop out for a while to sort out their feelings. And in getting triggered, they trigger other people, and it goes on.
It would be helpful if we could figure out a way to communicate with each other, without flaming a new visitor, that we notice a red flag or two. I’ve suggested that we just use the word “uncomfortable” either in talking to the possible intruder or in discussing it with each other. Until we know what we’re dealing with — and then we can just go NC.
Oxy has suggested that we start paying attention to how real newbies arrive, so we know when someone doesn’t fit the pattern. And I think that’s a really good idea too. These people who come out of nowhere with out-of-pattern introductions may not be sociopaths, but if they’re not here for support in healing, we probably need to figure out what they are doing here, so we know how to handle them.
I’m an ex-journalist, and I’m waiting for the day a journalist arrives and starts asking us questions. There are a number of books being planned by people who write on this site, and eventually there is going to be some press attention. Fortunately, Donna has experience with this (as I do), and we can direct them right back to her.
The bottom line here is virtually all of us are here for support in recovery. I describe the LoveFraud blog as a big group therapy session, and it is an incredible, valuable resource for that purpose. If people are not here for that purpose — sociopath or not — they are going to disrupt the process. And we who are here for healing need to know what to do.
In general, we need to report them to Donna. If it’s not clear to us that they are not one of us, then we’ve got the problem of figuring it out. Especially if they come in, as this last person did, with questions for us.
Hopefully Donna will return soon to this thread, and give us more of her thoughts.