Yesterday, Lovefraud had an intruder. I saw this guy’s first couple of posts, which struck me as odd, but not necessarily offensive. I decided to keep an eye on him.
Before long, however, several longtime Lovefraud contributors began attacking this individual. I thought the attacks were unwarranted.
We have had occasions in the past when people started accusing newcomers of being sociopaths. I think this is a very dangerous thing to do based on a few posts that may sound different from what we generally see here.
Meaning is missing
Experts have found that 65 percent to 90 percent of the meaning in human communication comes from nonverbal cues—tone of voice, gestures, posture. That means when the primary form of communication is via words on a computer monitor, 65 percent to 90 percent of the meaning is missing.
So how can we be sure of a person’s intentions? Not everyone is an expressive writer—some people may be stiff and formal. And not everyone may speak (and write) English as a first language.
Furthermore, Lovefraud.com is not a closed, invitation-only forum. It is open to the public, so it is quite possible that we have readers who are not victims, or former victims, of sociopaths. People who have been lucky enough not to have experienced the assault of a sociopath have a very different perspective from those of us who have been there. They may wonder, in writing, what all the bellyaching is about. That doesn’t mean they are sociopaths.
We also may have people who jump into a conversation without much of an introduction. There is no prerequisite that people tell their stories before participating in the Lovefraud Blog. Someone may just want to make an observation or pose a question. The post may sound different from what we generally see. That doesn’t make him or her a sociopath.
Jumping to conclusions is not helpful. In one situation, a person was attacked in what I believe was simply a case of mistaken identity.
Negative intentions
Now, it does turn out that everyone who sensed negative intentions on the part of yesterday’s intruder was right. Checking the IP address, I found that it was the same guy who showed up a few days ago. He actually posted on another forum, where predators apparently compare notes, that he hacked into his girlfriend’s computer and found references to Lovefraud. He then invited all his cronies to launch an attack on this blog.
A few Lovefraud contributors did write to me to express concerns, which I appreciate. I was watching this individual. But I admit that he began to show his true colors after I was away from the computer, and I didn’t react quickly. Now, however, I have deleted all his posts.
Personal attacks are not tolerated
The policy at Lovefraud is that personal attacks against other bloggers are not tolerated. I ask everyone, even long-time contributors who suspect a predator, to observe this policy.
So when you believe that someone is here to cause trouble, please do not engage. Do not react. Do not take the bait. Because when we do, we just feed the beast, and the entire Lovefraud conversation degenerates.
It’s important for us to be listening to our intuition. But when we get messages that something is amiss, what should we do? In the real world, we advocate No Contact. I believe we should do the same on Lovefraud.
Remember, they’re looking for a reaction. If we don’t give it, most of them just go away.
Oh thanks, Oxy, we were writing at the same time. I think you said it better than me.
yes kathy i agree.
and because we feel for others we think about the impact our actions/words may have on others and therefore practise self control when we think we might harm someone else ( and inevitably ourselves). in that way we are different from them.
but its hard. feeling so betrayed, having that wound, makes it hard to even be reminded of behavior that made it in the first place.
anger always ( only not in a psychopath!) stems from fear does it not. so we always need to examine our fear. and address that. strange thing is that psychopaths only fear they dont get what they want…im drifting off…i think were all on the right track here now?
I am back – I have a question and a comment. Is it a good idea to recommend people to lovefraud that we really dont know but suspect that they are dealing with a s/p/n? Recently I have done that on some other websites where the blogger was obviously dealing with an s/p/n or in a very TOXIC situation. And maybe I have suggested LF to someone, and their spouse or partner has found out and came in to cause havoc. My comment – there was a time in my life when I would believe what ever came out of someones mouth to be truth. I know I have been lied to most of my life and I am now more assertive and tend to speak up. I am not paranoid but when I step in dog chit I know it. I am getting confused as to who is who and what is what here. Who is calling who borderline? A narc? A spath? A victim? Aint nobody here that does not have issues to work on and yes disorders too boot. I am not seeking attention here. Interaction and learning and helping and sharing..is what this is about…
Anytime a new poster comes on here, they are an “unknown” to us. We tend to be MORE trusting of posters on here, say, than we would be on maybe a “dating site” but at the same time, dysfunctional, nasty and P/S people can come here too.
There ARE ways we can potentially spot these jerks before they do too much damage.
As we learn to be CAUTIOUS with any new people we “meet” we should look for OBVIOUS signs that they might not be who they are representing themselves as.
We need to continually examine how a person responds to us, etc. While we may understand and/or like some people better than others, that doesn’t mean they should be given “excuses” for bad behavior. While many of us feel very “at home” here at LoveFraud, this IS Donna’s site, and we are guests here—as long as we behave appropriately.
Frankly, if this were my site and I was the “Boss” I would be less understanding and compassionate than Donna is, I’d swing my Cyber skillet—but two things, 1) I am not the boss, and 2) Donna is doing an excellent job when you get down to it, and a better job than I think I would do. She’s a lot more tactful than I am too. LOL
Donna is taking her time to donate here, and while she might get some income off the google adds and from selling books, she is NOT making a living here folks, this is a publis SERVICE she does in between working and her LIFE. She donates a great deal of time here because she CARES.
Most of you know I am a “mouthy old biddy” at times, and that’s just ME–but Donna has never been unkind to me in any way. I totally, 110% appreicate Donna, am grateful for the huge amount of TIME she spends here and am thankful for her tact! I wanna be just like her when I grow up!
Me too, Henry. And I’m so glad you came back.
I don’t like name-calling. I know it’s part of the recovery process, the blaming and judging of the angry phase. And it’s a good thing, in separating ourselves from our abusers and their bad intentions. I anticipate that the anger will run its course, and we’ll move on the more positive parts of recovery after we’ve thought about how to protect ourselves in the future
But when it happens here, among ourselves, I find myself withdrawing. Pulling back. Feeling like I’m being abused myself, even if it’s not aimed at me. There’s a lot of difference between this judgmental energy and the caring attention we usually give each other. And I don’t like being around it. I’m afraid to talk, fearing that I’ll be the next target.
That said, I understand how people feel. There is so much vulnerability around here, so many unresolved feelings of victimization. We’re very sensitive. And it always starts with a malignant intruder. I didn’t really get, before this episode, how right Oxy is about the way these people interfere with what’s going on here.
Kathleen said: “Jen2008, you wrote that you get that victims have to work through anger.”
I think you wrote a very compassionate post explaining Tilly’s possible motives or reactions.
To clarify my position, I mean I understand that victim’s have to work through anger towards the person who abused them (the S or P) and possibly anger at themselves for whatever they feel their part may have been (if any). I understand this very well may include therapy to work thru anger issues.
But here is where I think we may have a differing of opinion and I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. I do NOT condone a victim feeling entitled to abuse other people because they think being a victim of a sociopath or psychopath excuses their behavior and therefore everyone else is expected to tread lightly around them and respect their boundaries, while THEY trample all over everybody else. Just as I don’t condone a young boy who is beaten by his father and watches his father beat his mother is excused for later on beating his own wife and children because he himself was a victim of domestic violence. In that example, I understand where the root of the behavavior came from, but I certainly wouldn’t consider him lashing out at his wife and children as a beautiful thing.
I feel we all have to learn to control our impulses and if we don’t, we can’t expect those we lash out at (who have nothing to do with the original pain) to be delighted to be our whipping post. I’ve posted on this very thing before and it is sort of my pet peeve that I feel victims do have the right to their anger etc. and their issues, but I do NOT feel it gives them carte blanche entitlement to trample and mistreat others in the name of victimhood. I just don’t.
‘then my take is that if newbies are on board and see this type of interaction they would likely conclude “victims” are as nutty and vicious as the sociopaths’
With respect Jen (and I do respect you lots), I would think that like me, most ‘victims’ or newbies would understand after reading a bit of what was going on, possibly through a connection to their own feelings, that a predator in the mix will cause some people to feel extremely threatend and angry, having been through the same ordeal, I am not sure calling people nutty would be the first thing I’d do. I notice that ML has not done so.
‘Aint nobody here that does not have issues to work on and yes disorders too boot.’
if someone came here and thought we were ‘nutty’, then they are in the wrong place.IHMO.
I think we ran into problems last night because concerns WERE expressed and NOT acted upon… I woke up (in Europe;) this morning to find PM’s offensive(yep – there is no other way to spin it, even if he did throw in a few ‘valid’ points) posts still all over the place.
I can totally understand why one of our longer term members felt un supported ( of course that was not the reality but it seemed like that), and those feelings lead to it getting out of hand… I for one refuse to condemn the ensuing reaction because I understand where it came from.
I know though that this is NOT a publicly funded service, I am not finger pointing or blaming anyone AT ALL I have no idea at all what it takes to run a site like this and how difficult in reality it is to ‘police’.
I hope this is okay. Its just my thoughts and feelings.
xxxx
ok before i TRULY go to bed:
Jen2008: i SO agree. couldnt have said it better. taken responsibilty for one’s own path IS the path to peace. its the hardest path but ultimately the right path and the rewarding path. i have been WAY too understanding of my P ex for excusing his behavior by his childhood trauma’s: which for all i know are lies too, but he uses that :why? because people have empathy: so NO, NO empathy for abuse of others. understanding for anger? YES. understanding for grief? YES understanding for hurt? YES for everything BUT not for harming other on the way.
wow i need to get some rest!
take care everyone!
and as a final reaction also to blueskies: i dont think anybody on this board ( apart from PM ofcourse) sincerily meant harm and therefore everything will be cool. BUT its a good discussion to have regardless!
x
I think the veterans here are in a position to quietly notify Donna when a anyone (new or old) is sending red flags across the board. This way by bringing it to Donna’s attention she can regulate the interaction as she sees fit.
I wholeheartedly agree and maybe Oxy or Donna or Kathleen could write an article for everyone to read about what the warning signs or danger signs may be when a “bad blogger” crosses the pathes of LF readers/posters.
Engaging them or “calling them out” is probably exactly what they thrive on… so instead of making the goal trying to covertly warn others it may be most productive to simply alert Donna at the onset of the first intrusion.
We need to get back to the positive, healing, thought provoking posts and pick up where Witsend and A New Lily left off…wondering if there was any good news or updates in everyones (new and old) healing journies…both painful and joyful…
And Henry, with SO many different personalities – theres bound to be posters who dont see eye to eye, or dont hit it off, or simply feel one or the other isnt a good match for their personality on the website ( either being in different places or stronger or weaker or just too much to deal with….as a rule of thumb … I think so many of us just revert to the good old NC rule and let bygones be bygones and give and receive what the majority of us are interested in at LF….sound positive advice, feedback and healing!!!!