The connection between love and politics—that was the topic of commentary in yesterday’s paper written by Gregory Rodriguez, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. The article, Love and politics in a cynical age, got me thinking about the consistency of behavior.
Rodriguez summarized how Americans have come to view the private lives and public lives of the people we elect to represent us. He wrote:
The truth is that we don’t generally associate politics or politicians with happy marriages and deep romance, let alone fidelity. The constant revelation of scandals and peccadilloes in the halls of power have trained us to expect the worst of those—particularly the men—we elect to shepherd and protect the interests of society. Somewhere along the line, Americans have even bought into the notion that a politician’s private life, in particular his love life, has little or nothing to do with his efforts on behalf of the public good.
In other words, people seem to think that just because an elected official cheats on his spouse, it doesn’t mean we can’t trust him with our tax dollars.
Not everyone holds this view. Ross Perot, who ran for president in 1992, famously said that at his company, EDS, lying, cheating, stealing and adultery were all grounds for dismissal. If he were elected, he said, the same standard would apply. Perot said:
“If a man’s own wife cannot trust him, how can the American people?”
This, I think, is a legitimate question.
Different behavior
People often ask me if a sociopath will be “different” with a particular person. For example, can a sociopathic man who hates and harasses his ex-wife love his children? Can a sociopathic woman who takes advantage of her family be true to her new boyfriend?
The short answer is no. Exploitative people exploit anyone who has something that they want.
The long answer is that exploitative people may seem to authentically care for particular individuals, but it’s probably just part of an overall scheme of manipulation. The sociopath is just softening up the target, preparing for the right time to strike.
Here is one of the most dangerous thoughts we can ever have: “Well, yes, he (or she) treated that person badly, but he’ll never do that to me!”
Remember: The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. If you know that a person has behaved in a deceitful or exploitative way towards someone else, sooner or later, the person will behave that way towards you.
Compartmentalize
So why do we compartmentalize? Why do people seem to believe that how our elected officials conduct their private lives has nothing to do with how they conduct their public lives? Why is it that when we hear of a powerful person who has a solid marriage, we are surprised?
Maybe we’re beaten down. Maybe we’re totally disillusioned. After all, stories of deceit, betrayal and treachery have been around as long as humans have told stories. Maybe we hear of so many scandals—from cheating spouses to tax dollars wasted—that we simply expect the worst of people.
Perhaps public life has simply gotten too easy in America. It’s not like the Revolutionary War, when men risked their lives and fortunes to stand up to the British. No, politics today is all talk and no consequences. That makes it an excellent career choice for sociopaths—all they have to do is be charming, charismatic and deceitful.
Sociopaths, after all, want power, control and sex. By getting elected, they have access to everything they want.
Liu Xiaobo
That’s why it’s so refreshing to hear about people, in this day and age, fighting the good fight from a foundation of love.
In the article that I quoted in the beginning of this post, the author, Gregory Rodriguez, also wrote about Liu Xiaobo. Liu is the Chinese dissident who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. He, of course, was viewed as a subversive criminal by the Chinese government, and was not allowed to go to Norway and accept the prize. Rodriguez explained how his absence was handled in Oslo:
Actress Liv Ullmann read aloud the statement Liu released last December as he was awaiting trial for “inciting subversion of state power.” At the top, he sermonized against hatred (“enmity can poison a nation’s spirit”), but his ending was an exquisite love letter to his wife, Liu Xia.
“I am sentenced to a visible prison,” he wrote, “while you are waiting in an invisible one. Your love is sunlight that transcends prison walls and bars, stroking every inch of my skin, warming my every cell, letting me maintain my inner calm, magnanimous and bright, so that every minute in prison is full of meaning. But my love for you is full of guilt and regret, sometimes heavy enough to hobble my steps. I am a hard stone in the wilderness, putting up with the pummeling of raging storms, and too cold for anyone to dare touch. But my love is hard, sharp, and can penetrate any obstacles. Even if I am crushed into powder, I will embrace you with the ashes.”
Rodriguez viewed Liu’s words to his wife as a sign of passion and commitment, and the bad behavior in the private lives of elected officials as the opposite. The point, Rodriguez wrote, is that love begins at home.
How people conduct their private lives is absolutely relevant to whether or not they should be elected. People who cannot be trusted by their most intimate loved ones cannot be trusted by anyone. And people who feel genuine love and compassion for their families can extend their love and compassion for the greater good.
hello petite,
your above post is interesting to me. you write as if you believe he is ‘normal’. there is a distinct difference between how we write about ‘normal’ people and the disordered.
you have no way of knowing what he was or wasn’t looking for if he is disordered or just a garden variety cheat. They lie. As ErinBrock mentioned somewhere it doesn’t sound like you are convinced that this guy is a ‘player’ at least, and possibly a spath.
BELIEVE ME, if you were fulfilled by only working and being at home, this guy with the red flags probably wouldn’t look so attractive to you. None of us can be fulfilled by only our demanding work. And you have a wound from your divorce…this makes you vulnerable to bullshit. I think it was Skylar who said that whatever sets us apart from society (like the stray calf) will be the thing that they target – as they are predators and we are the prey. I think she is spot on with this. The thing that marks you in your society is your position and your dedication to it. I know it is odd to think that the thing that we feel most pride about, and are most dedicated to is our greatest weakness, but it is true in many of our cases.
I would advise that you leave him behind, and try to get some more balance in your life – a bit less work and a bit more fulfillment in other areas. I have limited knowledge of you and your life, but I am also a person who has a hard time finding balance. I am an extreme character – one of my greatest strengths/ weaknesses that the spath exploited to gain entry into my life. Believe me the exit was much more painful.
thanks one-step.
Yes, I agree, there must have been some need in me which made me feel so attracted to him and also to want to believe all his crap. your thinking is correct – the wound of my divorce and not having anyone in my life may make me more vulnerable.
advice taken – our career may come in our way and they see the weak spots and make use of it to enter our psyche.
thanks so much.
petite
So much advice here Petite.
Having read the posts (and for what it’s worth) and reading between the lines you appear
1. lonely – life is passing you by – you want to look forward to retirement/old age with ‘someone’. The nest is looking very empty and life isn’t much if there’s no one to share it with.
2. needing someone intellectual to discuss work with on your level
3. a friend – to go out with, share the evening with, have a meal together
4. someone to flatter you, tell you how good you are
5. you want to make his life good, to change him for the better, because he loves you.
someone waiting for you when you get home, to snuggle you in bed, to laugh and joke with
6. you have everything, money, prestige, good standing at your place of work……but something is missing
How do I know?
I was this woman until just over a year ago when I was spathed. I lost my job, money, sanity, family and am now moving house.
Was he worth it? I certainly thought so at the time and no one could tell me any different. It’s only now, looking back, that I see myself where you are today.
I thought I needed ‘someone’ ‘anyone’ was better than being left on the shelf. But today the shelf is a damn sight more appealing than life with spath.
Dear Petite,
Good morning! I’m so glad that you are posting here and discussing this thing with “B” and I think you see that everyone here reflects my opinion that I’ve had from the first that this guy is “love bombing” you—just the way you know that my Boyfriend did me 8 months after my husband died and I fell for it. I was on CLOUD 9 when he started paying me compliments. I remember how when B started telling you how smart and beautiful and entertaining you were how you loved it! I don’t blame you, it is wonderful when others recognize our good qualities, and Petite, you have SO MANY GOOD QUALITIES!
And in spite of the fact that you have all these GOOD QUALITIES and have achieved world wide professional status at the bottom of that successful woman is A WOMAN. Like all WOMEN (or men) at this age of looking forward to retirement, aging, etc. we take stock of where we are versus where we would LIKE TO BE.
We look at ourselves and say “I’m X years old” and in Y years I will retire….what do I want? what do I have? What should I do about the difference between what I want and what I have?
At the time my husband was killed, I was 100% completely satisfied with my life, with what I had, with my relationships, with my career. If I’d had a magic wand to wave and grant all my wishes, I would not have changed anything.
POOF! He is killed. My world comes crashing down. I get PTSD from the plane crash aftermath and my short term memory is gone, I can’t even work safely any more. My beloved husband is gone, I am 57 and ALONE! Now I feel I am DOOMED to “be alone forever, no one will ever love me again—booo hoooo” So I go from having EVERYTHING to NOTHING and I am bereft. Perfect victim-in-waiting for a psychopath to show up and offer to GIVE ME EVERYTHING, INCLUDING LOVE.
Petite, you’ve concentrated on your career for so long (and you told me once you never had a proper childhood because you were always studying) that I think you have come to the space in life that you have started to “take stock of” what you have versus what you want and now you are wanting a relationship and looking forward to a retirement with someone who you love, who is a friend, companion, lover, to spend your retirement with, and to nurture and be nurtured in return. There is NOTHING WRONG IN WANTING THIS, but it must not become such a quest for this that you overlook the REALITY and one of the realities is that there are NOT MANY MEN AVAILABLE in the quality of man that you would be happy with, that would meet your requirements. Mine either for that matter.
So what does that mean? If we don’t have SOMEONE that we will be lonely and pitiful and mold away? NO, we can have complete and good lives even without a partner….because I can sure tell you THE WRONG PARTNER IS WORSE THAN NO PARTNER.
Look at the first guy? After it was over you did know his wife, and how he had treated her for so long, what a piece of trash he was and is in his personal life, no matter how great he was in his professional life.
My guess is that with B it is the same thing as far as his personal life is concerned. He even admitted to the cheating 6 times and HAVING TO CONFESS to his wife because he got and GAVE HER an STD—then he went to counseling and HE SAYS he quit cheating (and maybe he did for a while) but then he went on a trip and had dinner with his x GF and her husband and kids and then told his wife about it and she hit the ceiling. OF COURSE SHE DID—I can’t blame her. I would have too. He says he was doing it “so he could see that all these other women weren’t all that special really” Well THAT IS WHAT HE SAYS, but that doesn’t make it the truth what he says.
I think too many times YOU BELIEVE WHAT HE SAYS IS AUTOMATICALLY THE TRUTH…..and the difference is that I think what he says is PRIMARILY A LIE…or they are TWISTED TRUTHS to make himself look good.
Many times when we talk and I say something like what I’ve said here, your answer to me is “Yes, but what if what he is saying is the truth and he really loves me?”
I will say to you, IF A FROG HAD WINGS, HE WOULD NOT BUMP HIS BUTT EVERY TIME HE JUMPS EITHER. If the narcissistic/psychopathic person could connect to others properly, they might love you, too.
As it is, frogs don’t have wings, and people who are high in narcissistic or psychopathic traits are not good companions.
One thing I know about you Petite if nothing else, is that you are one of the smartest people I know and I hope you will use those SMARTS instead of “convincing” yourself that the RED FLAGS this man has been waving from the start, showing his LACK OF A MORAL COMPASS, are not there. They ARE there and they are WARNINGS that you will have a miserable life if you attach yourself to this man. You deserve MUCH BETTER. No one can tell you that you Will find someone wonderful to share your life with, to share your success with, but you don’t have to have someone to make yourself complete. You are complete now! I am complete now. I’m happy now, even alone without a male companion or lover, because in the end, my friend, people die, people leave us, people disappoint us, and the only constant we have is CHANGE and OURSELVES.
Life is a journey of change and learning….but ultimately we ourselves are our only companion on the journey.
Hi Petite,
Good morning Oxy, Candy and Onestep,
Petite,
Since you spent all your time studying and didn’t have a proper childhood, it’s possible you have not grown up yet.
That’s OK, neither have I and I’m 45.
My experience with the spaths has taught me that there are many people who have never grown up and they are NOT all spaths, some of them are Narcissistic Supply. When we are attracted to narcissists, it’s because we have not grown up in some part of our brains. Many people who have never grown up emotionally, are very intellectually smart, because that’s where all the energy went to while they were NOT spending any energy growing up emotionally.
I’ve also noticed that for us N-supplies, normal people seem boring. In fact, mostly they are invisible. That is the same for spaths. They don’t see or don’t want to spend time with boring people. That’s why gray rock works so well.
Of all the people in my family, only my older sister was not targeted by my spath. When I asked him what he thought of her, he said she is boring. When I asked him what he thought of her 22 year old son, he said, “he doesn’t have much ambition”. When in fact, Chris, her son, made $50,000 /year in his first job, straight out of college as a java programmer, he paid off his student loans in 6 months and bought a home within a year. But to my spath, that is not ambitious. Chris is not an N so he had no “hook”. Believe me, if there was a hook, my exP would have found it.
You might never be attracted to “normal” people, but at least realize why this is and see your behavior and choices objectively. You should probably read some of the books that Oxy has recommended. It may be time for you to learn this stuff, before you jump into the dating pool. Then get out and make friends and join clubs that are not filled with intellectually stimulating people, but just regular salt-of-the-earth types. You might learn that there are other kinds of men out there that you find interesting, that are not doctors.
Petite,
I apologize if you felt scolded by me. I think I feel just a bit too passionate when it comes to wanting to help someone avoid a Spath. I do care about this and I TRUST that you will make the right decisions for yourself. You have a lot of great support here and a real trooper in Ox.
Blessings Petite!
you know, i worry all the time that the spath, so loving of her online cons, will show up here. I have a pretty good sense of her style and of spaths in general online now, but would I definitely be able to suss her out?
Every time i reveal more here that identifies me, i am uncomfortable > to scared> to paranoid. But this morning I realized, I am not alone here. There are a number of people on lf who would smell her out and whack her also. I do what *I* can when spaths show up here. I stonewall them, I report them, I try to protect us from them without giving them anything to feed on.
This place where hard stories and gratitude abound, the lovebomb and pity ploy can easily be brought into play; and it is always this that most concerns me in terms of us being taken in here. I keep my eyes open for that. I suspect, unless the spath that shows up here uses online extensively, that we would be pretty boring after a while, but for those that do, it’s a field of prey. But, reflecting on the posts in the last couple of days, I realize that many of us are now wise prey. And I realize am not alone; I have people at my back and side.
Petite,
I think you are a good teacher for us. At this point, HE isn’t the issue. YOU are. I re-read posts to/from you.
You’ve changed your story.
You’ve justified your behavior.
You’ve excused his.
You’ve dismissed some valid observations.
You’ve completely ignored other valid points.
You assert your desirability and your cv, we have no doubt you are beautiful and successful (and vain/shallow/narcissistic).
Yes I understand you look 15 years younger… but you sound like a four year old whining, “BUT I WANT HIM!!”
He’s a snake but YOUR moral compass is also broken, otherwise you wouldn’t be having this discussion.
So are you a real woman? One of dignity and self worth and integrity and accountability? OR are you an opportunist seeking to justify and excuse your involvement with a man who should have been told to go work things out with his wife.
Fact is, you are one of the rare women who has a chance to end up with a partner. But the quality of the character you choose to BE will determine the QUALITY of your relationship.
One,
You are NOT alone. We all here in LF land “got your back”. I am a much wiser prey now and I hope you are also.
Soimnotthecrazee1!
Katy
you are one of the people here who does not seem like you had failed to “grow up” when you met the spath. You seem to have more wisdom and insight than most. Your posts are direct and honest. I really like reading them.
It makes me wonder what happened when you got hooked by your spath. How did he present himself? From the things you have told me, he does seem very crafty, but still – just a spath. What was the hook? Were you raised by narcissistic parents like I was? I was unable to differentiate between love and control because my parents equated them to each other.