The connection between love and politics—that was the topic of commentary in yesterday’s paper written by Gregory Rodriguez, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. The article, Love and politics in a cynical age, got me thinking about the consistency of behavior.
Rodriguez summarized how Americans have come to view the private lives and public lives of the people we elect to represent us. He wrote:
The truth is that we don’t generally associate politics or politicians with happy marriages and deep romance, let alone fidelity. The constant revelation of scandals and peccadilloes in the halls of power have trained us to expect the worst of those—particularly the men—we elect to shepherd and protect the interests of society. Somewhere along the line, Americans have even bought into the notion that a politician’s private life, in particular his love life, has little or nothing to do with his efforts on behalf of the public good.
In other words, people seem to think that just because an elected official cheats on his spouse, it doesn’t mean we can’t trust him with our tax dollars.
Not everyone holds this view. Ross Perot, who ran for president in 1992, famously said that at his company, EDS, lying, cheating, stealing and adultery were all grounds for dismissal. If he were elected, he said, the same standard would apply. Perot said:
“If a man’s own wife cannot trust him, how can the American people?”
This, I think, is a legitimate question.
Different behavior
People often ask me if a sociopath will be “different” with a particular person. For example, can a sociopathic man who hates and harasses his ex-wife love his children? Can a sociopathic woman who takes advantage of her family be true to her new boyfriend?
The short answer is no. Exploitative people exploit anyone who has something that they want.
The long answer is that exploitative people may seem to authentically care for particular individuals, but it’s probably just part of an overall scheme of manipulation. The sociopath is just softening up the target, preparing for the right time to strike.
Here is one of the most dangerous thoughts we can ever have: “Well, yes, he (or she) treated that person badly, but he’ll never do that to me!”
Remember: The best indication of future behavior is past behavior. If you know that a person has behaved in a deceitful or exploitative way towards someone else, sooner or later, the person will behave that way towards you.
Compartmentalize
So why do we compartmentalize? Why do people seem to believe that how our elected officials conduct their private lives has nothing to do with how they conduct their public lives? Why is it that when we hear of a powerful person who has a solid marriage, we are surprised?
Maybe we’re beaten down. Maybe we’re totally disillusioned. After all, stories of deceit, betrayal and treachery have been around as long as humans have told stories. Maybe we hear of so many scandals—from cheating spouses to tax dollars wasted—that we simply expect the worst of people.
Perhaps public life has simply gotten too easy in America. It’s not like the Revolutionary War, when men risked their lives and fortunes to stand up to the British. No, politics today is all talk and no consequences. That makes it an excellent career choice for sociopaths—all they have to do is be charming, charismatic and deceitful.
Sociopaths, after all, want power, control and sex. By getting elected, they have access to everything they want.
Liu Xiaobo
That’s why it’s so refreshing to hear about people, in this day and age, fighting the good fight from a foundation of love.
In the article that I quoted in the beginning of this post, the author, Gregory Rodriguez, also wrote about Liu Xiaobo. Liu is the Chinese dissident who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. He, of course, was viewed as a subversive criminal by the Chinese government, and was not allowed to go to Norway and accept the prize. Rodriguez explained how his absence was handled in Oslo:
Actress Liv Ullmann read aloud the statement Liu released last December as he was awaiting trial for “inciting subversion of state power.” At the top, he sermonized against hatred (“enmity can poison a nation’s spirit”), but his ending was an exquisite love letter to his wife, Liu Xia.
“I am sentenced to a visible prison,” he wrote, “while you are waiting in an invisible one. Your love is sunlight that transcends prison walls and bars, stroking every inch of my skin, warming my every cell, letting me maintain my inner calm, magnanimous and bright, so that every minute in prison is full of meaning. But my love for you is full of guilt and regret, sometimes heavy enough to hobble my steps. I am a hard stone in the wilderness, putting up with the pummeling of raging storms, and too cold for anyone to dare touch. But my love is hard, sharp, and can penetrate any obstacles. Even if I am crushed into powder, I will embrace you with the ashes.”
Rodriguez viewed Liu’s words to his wife as a sign of passion and commitment, and the bad behavior in the private lives of elected officials as the opposite. The point, Rodriguez wrote, is that love begins at home.
How people conduct their private lives is absolutely relevant to whether or not they should be elected. People who cannot be trusted by their most intimate loved ones cannot be trusted by anyone. And people who feel genuine love and compassion for their families can extend their love and compassion for the greater good.
Sky, we posted over each other….the thing about my friend is that she doesn’t meet any other criteria of psychopathic traits….so yes, she is very dysfunctional on this one aspect of her choices, but in none of the others. She is honest to a fault, kind, caring, but she is more VICTIM than she is abuser, because the men she chooses are always ones who are cheats and give her the PITY ploy that she falls for. We’ve had people on here who went out with men that they knew they were married and you didn’t label them psychopaths for that one thing, although I know you (and I) don’t think that is a wise or a good choice for people to choose.
First off, because if he will cheat on his wife, he will cheat on you. Especially men who are serial cheaters (and every one of my friend’s men are SERIAL cheaters).
I agree she has some problems, but it is that she continually sets herself up to be victimized by the same kind of man. A man who is a liar and a cheat from the get go. But she is 50 years old and I am very honest with her about my opinion of the men she picks. I UNDERSTAND why she makes herself vulnerable to this kind of man, but she is still in denial about it. She is still NOT OK by herself without a partner. I was there for a while, the NOT OK part, but I didn’t open myself up for a married man to get his hooks in.
She is more like a woman who lives with a man who beats her and as soon as she leaves him, she goes and finds another man who will abuse her.
Years ago I had a friend I really cared a great deal about. Her name was “Mary.” Mary had been married to a man who was bi-polar, alocholic and beat her. She got a divorce and was doing well with her 2 kids, her own home, and a good job. Then she started to date “Dave.” One night she came over to my house with a black eye and told me she had had Dave arrested and I stayed with her the rest of the evening talking about what an ass Dave was. The next day she bailed him out.
Time goes by and she comes over again with another black eye and Dave is in jail. Rinse and repeat. I told Mary that night, Mary, you are enabling him by bailing him out. I love you and I hate to see you do this to yourself, but I won’t talk about Dave and what an Ass he is if you go bail him out in the morning.
Well, we talked and yes, she bailed him out in the morning. Then she quit her job, sold her house and moved to BFE with him and I lost touch with her. BTW Dave wasn’t overly fond of employment either. I’ve often thought of Mary and wondered what ever happened to her. I don’t know if I did right in the way I handled it or not, sometimes I think yes, and sometimes I think no. But the thing is for sure, Mary sat herself up to be abused because she was so afraid of being alone that she stayed in denial that if I just keep on trying he will get better. I’ve been there with my P-son, and with my P X-BF, so I’m not throwing rocks at Mary or anyone else. The thing is that it takes more than one kind of bad even repeated decision to make one qualify as a psychopath. Poor decisions? YES!!! In spades! She is just wishing for a fantasy and they are promising her one, and she is falling for it….and it is a shame because she really is a nice lady. Like my friend, Mary, though, ONLY SHE can help herself avoid more hurt in the future.
LOL we are posting over each other all three of us now, EB and Sky!
I agree ALL PSYCHOPATHS ARE EVIL ALL THE TIME.
Did you hear the one about the statistics guys who were on a train going through Ireland. One of them looked out the window and said. “SOME of the sheep in Ireland are black.”
The second one said, “SOME of the sheep in Ireland are black SOME of the time.”
The third one said “SOME of the sheep in Ireland are black SOME of the time ON ONE SIDE.” LOL
oxy,
If your friend had done it once, like some of the posters that come here have done, I would buy it.
But serial dating of married men is sick and a RED FLAG.
My neighbor the crazy husband stealer is a bank manager, very intelligent, feeds the deer, birds and squirrels, takes in stray cats and rescues them, serves on the water association as treasurer, etc…
IT’S HER COVER.
She IS a sociopath, and it was made quite clear by the pleasure she took in manipulating me and working with my exP to get me to commit suicide.
To my knowledge she has never done this to anyone else around my neighborhood. But she did tell me that her family had ostracized her for “her lifestyle”. I asked her to clarify, she said, “Oh, because I’m dating a married man”
Her father was a politician and didn’t want her lifestyle to ruin his career I guess.
Once or twice, I get it, but over and over…?
You would not be so generous if you learned she was dating children repeatedly, why are u ok with married men?
Sky,
Good point!
OMG…this is so triggering…but like a train wreck I can’t walk away….
Sky…I SO UNDERSTAND your pessimism, if not cynicism of the world, Chica. I REALLY, REALLY DO!!! I so get the black and white thing………but the truth (from my perspective only here!) is that there are tons of gray areas…………I just think that black and white almost gives some sort of comfort while dealing with a psycho/spath/N world………….
But there are those that are dysfunctional and yet can still love and those that are S/P/N who DON”T have that capability at all..black and white, right? There are so many in between…and I think Ox’s friend is one of them…but still a victim nonetheless…
I understand Ox’s friend. It’s as if she is speaking of and to me…i a lot of ways…
As the OW, we don’t want to cause pain, but as with anyone involved with a Spath,we get caught up in their bullshit lies…the fantasies they create in “We will be together in the end!” and when you come from a shitty childhood full of pain, past relationships FULL of pain,….oh those are the BEST WORDS you will ever hear….and you (editorially) want desperately to believe it….because everything else seems so blah in comparison to the DREAM….
There is one thing I have learned. I was told over and over what Spath was. I caused a great deal of pain, holding desperately onto his lies. I would have given my LIFE to believe they were true….even when I knew they were not….I did that because his promises of love, that the dream would come true…that we would be together, that he could and WOULD be the ultimate end to the grief and pain of past relationships and childhood gone wrong…it is a strong, VERY STRONG< almost OBSESSIVE denial to forego the pain……
The S/P/N knows this. And they play it for all it's worth. While the world around us "OW'S" thinks that we are insane, they play on it, Sky……and that's just what is happening to Ox's friend too. I wasn't without a great deal of love and empathy. Spath played on that too. I wasn't without a great deal of childhood wounds…he played on that too……he knew my vulnerabilities………and he played on each and every one…but until I could build SOMETHING/ANYTHING of myself that said those wounds needed to be healed, but with NO ONE to salve the pain…just me….S/P/N was the answer….
Sky….there are good people in this world. LOTS of them. LOTS…but they are human too, they will screw it up…Ijust think that the difference is that they can screw it up and CARE about the screw up….Ox, I believe (I don't know her from shiat,but just from what I read in her posts- assuming she is awesome), knows her friend is in deep emotional pain…and that is the difference. Ox's friend FEELS….
When you are stuck in your (editorially speaking again) denial, there is not ONE thing a person can/could say to take you out of it. THe fantasy is just that strong. When you come from abuse and pain, the LAST thing you want to hear when you're in that kind of pain is that your latest Spath is NOT "the one" whether he ismarried or not………..
It is often said, "He is the hero, she is the slut"…Spath's know this too. Do you realize how much more damage is done to these women who are hurting, loving and so highly vulnerable?
Not all of us are without empathy, love or care. ohhhhhhhh we SO love and that's EXACTLY what the Spath is hoping for…and the more we love him, the more we give, the harder we try, the more he uses it as weaponry to paint us as unforgiving, relentless, stalking whores who feed upon HIM without mercy to those HE HE HE Is to be obligated too…to those HE HE HE is suppose to love……..to care for…….
I'm blessed. My children know who Spath is and his crazymaking shit. They all know. I just couldn't believe. It hurt too damned much. I'm so grateful now to my friends who totally loved and supported me through it all, my children who told the truth but remained silent in pain for me to figure out my own shit….they told me,. but remained silent the rest of the time, believing enough in me that I would eventually "get it"…and that meant a hell of a lot more than a label…
Sky, S/P/N's are just that good. They are just that good. And they use the mistress to look like a hero….when a lot of us are just looking to be loved or released from the pains of rejection, from childhood on…and they knew that too………
I KNOW not everyone is S/P/N. But my personal pain would not allow anything more at the time…it's a slow process….
That friend of Ox's will be SO GRATEFUL she just stood aside, but loved her friend anyway…..knowing she was exercising demons from her past, not without empathy …..she will be SO GRATEFUL when her eyes are opened and her denial is lifted (Ox, PLEASE don't give up on your friend!)…because when the denial comes crashing down…when there are no alternatives but the pain left behind…when there are no other alternatives except those that love you…..the last straw that comes…..
There is no time frame on what creates a reality for someone.
But when it happens, it is SO painful and I believe you understand that with your own experiences.
The blame is on the Spath for taking advantage of a little innocent child screaming for love, and knowing just what he was doing…
He does it to EVERYONE. EVERY SINGLE PERSON in his life..andwhat better than a woman so vulnerable like me, like Ox's friend…….
I often think our childhoods are screaming for help through relationships with these toxic people.
I've thought about that a lot. I wonder if there isn't some truth to that.
Sky………please don't lose hope. There are good people in the world. Even if they are dysfunctional and haven't had the awakening yet………"we" could only be so grateful to have a friend like you and Ox, who are there when the painful fallout happens………
okay folks, i have a question: why do we attract the people we do. This isn’t a question about attracting spaths, but is broader than that.
the two friends i lost were good freinds for a long time. both of them had specific emotional limitations; one had a couple of areas of his life that he could never talk about, and was seriously risk adverse (perhaps these two things were linnked) and the other has very strong walls around her emotions, and lacked generosity to a large extent -she isn’t particulary compassionate. But these were only their weaknesses, they had many strengths, also.
i am thinking that my strengths and weaknesses played to theirs – my compassion creates a lot fo space for people to be who they are in their weakness, but also, i wonder if i tend to attract people who are cut off emotionally because they will also abandon me sooner or later?
Looking back on the last few months of friendship with damaged friend #1, i see that i was feeling very jumpy with him – like i was compulsively filling in the emotional blanks. these folks just couldn’t didn’t go deep enough for me, and i was uncomfortable with their shallow places – sure that things lurked there, I suppose; and being with emotionally shallow people sucks. it’s lonely.
i am going to haul this thread back up, because i’d really like peeps to weigh in on my above question.
We do ‘fill in the blanks’…..as humans. We think that others think like us at times also, so we offer undeserved compassion….because we’d like compassion in hard times…
One, I do believe we attract what we send out in the world.
I’ve noticed, when I was at my low point, I was willing to take in anyone who would listen…..I ‘collected’ unheathy relationnships…..
I stepped back and thought…..dang, EB…..you are surrounded by a bunch of ‘fix it tickets’…….
It was because I was a fix it ticket……..negativitiy breeds negativity…..
When we are strong and on it…..we attract strong peeps.
When someone isn’t opening up completely…..to a person who desires connection…..it’s frustrating.
To me, being a freind is being there in good times and bad……if there is all bad….I start to think….hmmmmmm is this person perpetual drama maamma’s?
Sometimes my life is drama…..we feed off that.
When I don’t engage in the drama in my world….with my kids or others……life is much better!
It’s the perpetual weeding of the garden…..we may get rid off the cheatgrass……but the dandilions show up….they’re pretty until they take over.
lesson learned,
how MANY married men did you date?
1 or 2?
I’m saying that a SERIAL husband stealer is not a victim any more than a crack whore is. Sure, she has an addiction, and it’s called ENVY, but she also has a choice.
My exP could convince you of his pain and so could bill clinton. All P’s really are in pain, so it’s easy for them to use the pity ploy. But there are still choices to be made, selfish ones or responsible ones. When we follow our selfish choices (I won’t even call it Libido because it has nothing to do with sex), we are being evil.
I know there are good people out there. I’m just shocked at the amount of people who love to manipulate.
The couple I met (refer to my post above), have an 82 year old mother who cried on my shoulder as she told me about being abandoned by her own mom. (every few years she would be dropped off to another family to raise her) She asked me”why? did she leave me?”
I concluded that her mom was afraid that her dad would molest her, and I told her this. She denied it. not possible. But then I talked to her daughter, and also suggested this possiblilty, daughter denied it also, but concurrently, in the same sentence, told me that she had been groped by her grandfather (the man in question)! Talk about cognitive dissonance. You can’t see what’s infront of your face BECAUSE it’s infront of your face!
This 82 year old mother is married to a man 25 years younger and continually asks me if he seems ok. He doesn’t work, so I assumed he was using her. Last weekend I figured out that SHE is using HIM. I watched her try to manipulate her DIL and myself with the pity ploy. She has alzheimers but she has not forgotten how to manipulate. When I see that she has 3 crazy kids (45 thru 60 years old) by 2 husbands, and she has told me about her infidelities, I can see that she is the tree that created the rotten fruit. ALL because she was abandoned by her parents, all because her father was a child molester. This stuff, goes on and on. slime passes from one generation to another, exponentially.
One step,
why do we attract the people we do. This isn’t a question about attracting spaths, but is broader than that.
I can spot a person who has been damaged by emotional abuse from across the street or across the internet. I can’t even see the normal ones. Just like spaths know each other, we damaged ones do too. We are attracted to the face of drama. It’s what we are used to.
My german shepard would get so excited when she saw another german shepard and I used to think it was because she “knew” that they were the same breed. Then I realized, it’s because they look like her brothers and sisters and mom, and she remembers. we are attracted to the familiar. that’s all.
nicely said: ‘—but the dandilions show up”.they’re pretty until they take over. ‘
i was as strong as i ever was when i met these peeps a few years ago.
i have been looking at that idea of attracting what we are, but i don’t think i am emotionally shallow (I have attracted people who are not as comfortable in the emo realm as i am). but i am willing to put up with it for a long time. part of that is healthy, and part of it isn’t.
maybe it’s attracting what we need to heal – a strong mirror? relfecting back to me the unhealed areas of my life – that i put up with this crap and that i expect to be abandonned…
i think it’s more about abandonment than anything.
and thanks for playing. 😉